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BlueBayou posted:Even if Avatar the movie doesn't age well and isnt remembered as the giant blockbuster it once was.... the land is goddamn beautiful and the wonder it evokes wont go away just because the IP isnt relevant anymore  Go on...
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Mar 26, 2021 15:07
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I mean, Avatar does have more movies coming out. Eventually. Some century. (I like the dumb blue space kitties and I would really like to know how JC is going to ruin his franchise before 2040, please)
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Mar 26, 2021 15:12
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:... JC....ruin his franchise... Does not compute.
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Mar 26, 2021 15:15
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couldcareless posted:Does not compute. If he breaks the sequel curse most folks have, I'd be really surprised. The only sequel he's ever done (that was his stuff) was Terminator 2.
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Mar 26, 2021 15:28
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Pretty sure dude made a deal with the devil years ago but with the catch that his magnum opus will be about blue cat aliens and it would take him half a century to get the full series out.
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Mar 26, 2021 15:35
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Empress Brosephine posted:Remember when disney used to make original lands and theming and not just copy movie sets that will age horribly in the next 10 years You realize when Frontierland was originally built that Gunsmoke WAS Marvel of the time, right? One of the weirder things about Disneyland that you never see at Disney World is single buildings that have more than one theme as you walk around them (it's not ideal because you can see the seams from the wrong angles). Most of it was going to be in movies if amusement park didn't work out. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Mar 26, 2021 |
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Mar 26, 2021 18:33
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There are three, count'em, three Swiss Family Treehouses at various Disney parks around the world. There used to be four, but the original was re-themed to Tarzan. When was the last time you heard people talking about The Swiss Family Robinson?
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Mar 26, 2021 20:28
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Pththya-lyi posted:There are three, count'em, three Swiss Family Treehouses at various Disney parks around the world. There used to be four, but the original was re-themed to Tarzan. When was the last time you heard people talking about The Swiss Family Robinson? And yet they got rid of Honey I Shrunk The Kids. 
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Mar 26, 2021 20:37
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Pththya-lyi posted:There are three, count'em, three Swiss Family Treehouses at various Disney parks around the world. There used to be four, but the original was re-themed to Tarzan. When was the last time you heard people talking about The Swiss Family Robinson? right here right now
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Mar 26, 2021 20:53
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Zero One posted:I hate to break it to you but Disney has been copying movie sets that will age horribly in 10 years since 1955. The majority of classic, beloved, famous Disney attractions were not based off of existing IP. This has only been a major thing since the mid 00's and it continues to get worse.
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Mar 27, 2021 02:03
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:The majority of classic, famous Disney attractions were not based off of existing IP. This has only been a major thing since the mid 00's and it continues to get worse. Swiss Family Treehouse Dumbo the Flying Elephant Casey Jr (which is also dumbo, I suppose) Peter Pan Snow White Pinocchio Splash Mountain Mad Tea Party The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh (1999 at WDW) 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea Mr. Toad Space Ranger Spin (1998) Captain EO could be argued as an existing IP All the Honey I Shrunk the Kids attractions/playyards/etc. Tom Sawyer Island Alice in Wonderland Storybook Land Boats Literally all of the castles The Sword in the Stone show has been around for freaking ever All the Mickey Mouse Club poo poo And Toontown (at DLR) opened almost 30 freaking years ago. And there is a ton more but I stuck to DLR and MK mostly since they're the originals in each state.
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Mar 27, 2021 02:13
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Plus Walt named Sleeping Beauty Castle as a marketing move to promote the upcoming movie.
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Mar 27, 2021 02:20
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Zero One posted:Plus Walt named Sleeping Beauty Castle as a marketing move to promote the upcoming movie. I always forget that one. Gosh, Disney marketing is delicious.
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Mar 27, 2021 02:23
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Walt made the Matterhorn based on the movie Third Man on the Mountain.
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Mar 27, 2021 02:30
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:Swiss Family Treehouse There are at least as many that aren't IP or only vaguely IP. Space Mountain Carousel of Progress Mission to Mars Alien Encounter Tomorrowland Speedway Peoplemover Astro Orbiter It's a Small World Haunted Mansion Hall of Presidents Liberty Belle Riverboat Country Bear Jamboree Big Thunder Mountain Railroad Pirates of the Caribbean Jungle Cruise Enchanted Tiki Room Literally every single original and almost every former Epcot attraction Spaceship Earth Mission: Space Test Track The various incarnations of Journey Into Imagination Living with the Land Soarin' Many of the original Disney-MGM Studios "behind the scenes" experiences The Great Movie Ride (has IP in it but not an "IP ride") Tower of Terror (uses "The Twilight Zone" as branding but is an entirely original creation and story. The Twilight Zone references could be removed and the story doesn't really change.) Rock 'n' Roller Coaster (it stars Aerosmith but the band could be swapped out and the experience wouldn't change) Kilimanjaro Safaris Kali River Rapids Dinosaur (they changed the name to promote the movie, but that was basically it) Expedition Everest (the last non-IP E-ticket created in a US Disney park) And this is of course just notable WDW attractions. If you really dig into former attractions and shows at WDW alone, the list would be much bigger. Maybe it isn't "majority" like I claimed earlier, but the point is that there used to be a nice mix. Today, it doesn't seem like a non-IP-based attraction will ever be built again, and they're in the process of shoving it anywhere they can, regardless of whether or not it fits thematically or if it's tacky. WDW of the 90's/early 00's and before was very different from their current strategy. You did not have Disney IP in your face at every possible moment. You could love Walt Disney World without even caring much for the Disney brand.
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Mar 27, 2021 04:01
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I mean yeah, I doubt we're ever getting non-IP attractions again but that's largely because the fewer rides they have to make, the happier Disney seems to be with regard to expansions. They'll throw down a cool E-ticket and something smaller to eat people and that's it.
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Mar 27, 2021 04:52
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Indiana Jones Adventure at Disneyland was super popular, and without the Indiana Jones specific stuff (giant rolling ball, John Williams music, etc) it would seriously lose something. (It does at WDW!) Again, they sold the gently caress out of Davy Crockett and Zorro stuff at the dawn of Frontierland. I don't know if Jungle Cruise would have happened if The African Queen hadn't interested Walt. Many rides not supporting a known Disney property were supporting some other brand. Things like It's A Small World, Hall of Presidents (by way of the original Mr. Lincoln animatronic), Carousel of Progress, every "home of the future" exhibit, Adventure Through Inner-Space, and basically every original Epcot Future World attraction was a billboard for some corporation or another. Disney did not pay for these, but Walt had a talent for asking companies to pay for things he made and then let him have the thing afterward. To just go over a few major attractions meant to stir consumerism that may be forgotten to the sands of time. I am going to stick mostly to rides where the nature of the sponsor influences the type or content of ride. It's A Small World: Unicef Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln: State of Illinois Inner Space: Monsanto Carousel of Progress: General Electric Peoplemover: Ford and Goodyear (Ford Magic Skyway, 1964) Spaceship Earth: Bell Telephone Universe of Energy: Exxon Mission to Mars: Mcdonnell-Douglas World of Motion: General Motors Living with the Land: Kraft There's the more out there examples that aren't relevant to the ride but clearly were embedded deeply enough into it as a result of the sponsor. The Living Seas and United Elevator was always a weird one. The original Space Mountain's post-ride was basically a lengthy RCA commercial, as anyone old enough to remember being excited to see yourself on a TV can attest. Major exceptions are things like the Tiki Room and Country Bear Jamboree, both of which started life as Walt projects outside of Disneyland that then came into Disneyland when things went south. So remove that and what do you have left? As major rides go, mostly the Marc Davis era of Imagineering: Pirates, Mansion, America Sings, and his western canyon idea that Tony Baxter borrowed from for Big Thunder. No poo poo, Marc is one of the "nine old men" and the Disneys would let him have just about anything he'd like. John Hench also gets some hits in there too, but he's also an import to WED from animation. It's not incorrect to state that the goals of new construction are not the same as they were, but there's a few reasons. Rising ticket prices makes people less willing to swallow loud billboards promoting corporate agendas. And of course, the past decade has been Disney chasing the dragon of Universal going ham on IP-related theming especially with Potter but really since IOA opened in general.
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Mar 27, 2021 05:14
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Ehh, that's a bit of a stretch, I think. We're not talking about the corporate nature of the attractions, but rather whether or not the attraction presents an original experience or something that has a movie/TV show/whatever tie-in at its creation. But that brings up another interesting topic - so many attractions used to be sponsored and now almost none are. I can only think of Chevrolet for Test Track. I would gladly welcome back corporate sponsors if it meant that every new ride wasn't an extension of an existing experience.
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Mar 27, 2021 06:26
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:Ehh, that's a bit of a stretch, I think. We're not talking about the corporate nature of the attractions, but rather whether or not the attraction presents an original experience or something that has a movie/TV show/whatever tie-in at its creation. But that's my point. Universe of Energy was the ride that it originally was because Exxon wanted a place to spout propaganda about fossil fuels. Carousel of Progress was funded because GE wanted a ride where progress is measured by appliances, and the family in the original future remarks about how wonderful their neighboring nuclear power plant is (seriously). Horizons was because GE came back for more, and Disney deliberately tried to make the cast in Horizons appear to be the same family from Carousel of Progress, as if it was the Part 2 of that ride. I give Small World, Mr Lincoln, and Spaceship Earth a break because they are in their own ways genuinely compelling at what they set out to do, even if the presence of a corporate sponsor established the blue-sky foundation for what the ride would be. The rest, well...
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Mar 27, 2021 08:41
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I would rather IP than corporate sponsors any day, but I guess I'm just a sheep.
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Mar 27, 2021 14:04
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couldcareless posted:I would rather IP than corporate sponsors any day, but I guess I'm just a sheep. I know you'd support a Meet the Robinsons-themed Astro Orbiter for absolutely no reason. I would.
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Mar 27, 2021 14:31
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:I know you'd support a Meet the Robinsons-themed Astro Orbiter for absolutely no reason. I would. If they could find a way to actually incorporate singing frogs into the ride, I might actually get on it
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Mar 27, 2021 14:35
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couldcareless posted:If they could find a way to actually incorporate singing frogs into the ride, I might actually get on it you know the jackjacks on the sticks on Incredicoaster? Boom.
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Mar 27, 2021 14:55
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I want IP based rides but keep them out of restaurants and resorts 
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Mar 27, 2021 15:20
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alg posted:I want IP based rides but keep them out of restaurants and resorts Ok but those Moana rooms look amazing. I say put IP where they make sense.
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Mar 27, 2021 15:46
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Craptacular! posted:But that's my point. Universe of Energy was the ride that it originally was because Exxon wanted a place to spout propaganda about fossil fuels. Carousel of Progress was funded because GE wanted a ride where progress is measured by appliances, and the family in the original future remarks about how wonderful their neighboring nuclear power plant is (seriously). Horizons was because GE came back for more, and Disney deliberately tried to make the cast in Horizons appear to be the same family from Carousel of Progress, as if it was the Part 2 of that ride. Most of your examples are from either A) the 1964 World's Fair, or B) Original Epcot, which was intended to be a permanent world's fair. Most of them could and did remove the sponsor without feeling like a big commercial, with an obvious outlier in the original Universe of Energy. I don't think we'll ever see these type of attractions again either. I'm not against IP at all, but I want theme parks that stand on their own, where I can go and see things that I can't see anywhere else in the mix. Michael Eisner loved the parks and understood this very well. Iger and Chapek do not see the parks as able to stand on their own, and treat them as marketing and synergy machines for their properties. Yes, Walt did this too, but honestly, most of the great Disney park experiences came after he died. Also, I missed your point about Indiana Jones. Dinosaur is less loved and less popular, but I would wager that that has more to do with it being a severely budget-cut version of Indiana Jones rather than a lack of IP. Indiana Jones has lushly themed sets and effects through out, while Dinosaur is 75% in pitch black to hide the lack of sets (though it does enhance the thrill a bit and I still love the ride). People will love and connect with a great ride regardless of if it has any IP attached to it, or even if it's an IP no one really cares about, as is the case with Pandora. Nobody cares about Avatar at all and scoffed at the idea of an Avatar land, but the land and main attraction were executed so wonderfully that it is a massively popular success.
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Mar 27, 2021 18:32
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:Most of your examples are from either A) the 1964 World's Fair, or B) Original Epcot, which was intended to be a permanent world's fair. Most of them could and did remove the sponsor without feeling like a big commercial, with an obvious outlier in the original Universe of Energy. I don't think we'll ever see these type of attractions again either. quote:Michael Eisner loved the parks and understood this very well. Iger and Chapek do not see the parks as able to stand on their own, and treat them as marketing and synergy machines for their properties. Yes, Walt did this too, but honestly, most of the great Disney park experiences came after he died. Part of the reason Walt was able to get away with this, aside from being Walt and having full creative control, is that the attractions were sold by ride tickets. Having two boat rides is okay because they're boat rides for different types of visitors and not many will pay to ride both. Having two Omnimover rides is okay because one is a corporate billboard that costs little to ride and the other has cutting edge illusions going on around the edges that is one of the most expensive per-ride tickets in the park. Epcot kind of was the end of all this, because the parks switched to the current ride-all-you-want model in 1981 just before Epcot opened, but you can tell that original Epcot was built with ride tickets in mind. While some of the music and props from World of Motion have it's fans, the ride was considered to suffer from being more or less the same ride as Spaceship Earth but without the added mystique of the geosphere ride building. That's because people are hitting up whole parks in a day or two now, so you better offer different experiences. Rides are now based very much on mechanics, and for WDW how many exist per-park. You don't build two drop towers in the same park because one has Twilight Zone theming and the other has Guardians of the Galaxy theming, it's just pick one. The ride system that powers Forbidden Journey was shopped around to Disney before Universal bought the license for it, and Disney tried and (if you believe sketchy rumor mills) reportedly failed to figure out what atmosphere was supposed to be built around it before Uni snapped it up. The exception was opening Little Mermaid in Fantasyland so close to Mansion, but it's been a long time since Mansion and also Disney managers love Omnimover rides because they are machineguns for processing riders. quote:Also, I missed your point about Indiana Jones. Dinosaur is less loved and less popular, but I would wager that that has more to do with it being a severely budget-cut version of Indiana Jones rather than a lack of IP. Indiana Jones has lushly themed sets and effects through out, while Dinosaur is 75% in pitch black to hide the lack of sets (though it does enhance the thrill a bit and I still love the ride). People will love and connect with a great ride regardless of if it has any IP attached to it, or even if it's an IP no one really cares about, as is the case with Pandora. Nobody cares about Avatar at all and scoffed at the idea of an Avatar land, but the land and main attraction were executed so wonderfully that it is a massively popular success. But my point was that the big elaborate rides that weren't based on IP or weren't corporate sponsored billboards were all from 1960-1975 or so and have been sparse ever since: Matterhorn, Submarine Voyage, Pirates, Mansion, Space Mountain, America Sings, Big Thunder, Journey Into Imagination, Soarin, Expedition Everest. I'll be kind and also throw in Body Wars and The Living Seas because the former was supposed to be Epcot's thrill ride and the latter is a very unique/expensive thing that was less driven by corporate mandates than World of Motion and Universe of Energy. I guess we could also toss in Rocket Rods as an ATTEMPT at an E-Ride without IP, but man, you really don't want to be that desperate. (Oops, I forgot Country Bears, so we'll throw that in too. I'm not sure it really counts as a marquee attraction but I'll put it on level ground with America Sings because they both did new things with animatronics to make them worth watching.) I acknowledge that Disney de-propagandized Energy and The Land and Carousel and so on, but that's after corporate propaganda provided the money to build it in the first place. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Mar 27, 2021 |
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Mar 27, 2021 21:18
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:People will love and connect with a great ride regardless of if it has any IP attached to it, or even if it's an IP no one really cares about, as is the case with Pandora. Nobody cares about Avatar at all and scoffed at the idea of an Avatar land, but the land and main attraction were executed so wonderfully that it is a massively popular success. Seconding this. It does not matter what the IP is, if a ride is done really well everyone will love it. Splash Mountain is a great example of a really questionable IP that was not even relevant at the time the ride was built (they named it because of the movie Splash even though it is based on Song of the South) with a great ride everyone loves. Then there is IP people really love like Nemo, which has two lazy retheme attractions that people are just like “well, it’s fine” and a really great musical.
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Mar 27, 2021 21:25
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I hate Avatar, also love pandora except for the boat ride I love dinosaur countdown to extinction ride and not even Owen Wilson saw that movie
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Mar 27, 2021 21:55
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Craptacular! posted:The ride system that powers Forbidden Journey was shopped around to Disney before Universal bought the license for it, and Disney tried and (if you believe sketchy rumor mills) reportedly failed to figure out what atmosphere was supposed to be built around it before Uni snapped it up. Can you imagine if it'd been a Soarin meets Up kinda ride with that system? Dren posted:Then there is IP people really love like Nemo, which has two lazy retheme attractions that people are just like “well, it’s fine” and a really great musical. That musical is so freaking good and the best way to blow a rainstorm.
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Mar 28, 2021 01:41
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:Can you imagine if it'd been a Soarin meets Up kinda ride with that system? One of the unreliable sources believed there was an idea for an Incredibles ride with that thing. Which would at least be better than the Incredibles ride DCA has right now.
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Mar 28, 2021 04:57
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I think if you put the timeline together there's a good chance that the spaceship earth roller coaster would've used that technology or atleast some version of a kuka arm. I'm honestly surprised it hasn't been used to make animatronics fly
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Mar 28, 2021 11:51
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Empress Brosephine posted:I think if you put the timeline together there's a good chance that the spaceship earth roller coaster would've used that technology or atleast some version of a kuka arm. hydraulics connection issues, maybe?
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Mar 28, 2021 13:20
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Relevant article on the last time Disney (and Universal) had IP-free rides in the parks (in the states) https://www.themeparktourist.com/features/20210116/29557/ip-free-can-you-think-most-recent-original-ride-each-disney-and-universal Internationally, Shanghai has IP-free rides. So its not like Disney has refused to build IP-free rides... but yeah
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Mar 29, 2021 01:10
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BlueBayou posted:Relevant article on the last time Disney (and Universal) had IP-free rides in the parks (in the states) Between California Adventure’s opening slate, Dino-Rama, and the 90s Tomorrowland’s, no-IP hasn’t been a string of hits either. Look at how much more people enjoyed Paradise Pier after the replaced the obnoxious self-referential Los Angeles go getter poo poo with 1940s characters. Fewer Whoopi Goldberg appearances per mile, as well.
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Mar 29, 2021 04:33
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Didn't everest open after soarin
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Mar 29, 2021 04:42
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Just got back from a MK/HS/EPCOT trip Even with the recent expansion, the limited capacity was still nice-- we were able to do the Three Mountains by noon and pretty much everything else in MK pretty easily-- and they're still very strict about masking; but as was said earlier, the distancing (especially in the queues) has gotten pretty lax. This will probably be our last trip until we're fully vaccinated and the fireworks shows are back. We usually go during Food & Wine so this was my first time at Flower & Garden, and it kicks rear end. Go right now and get the crawfish étouffée from America and the duck a l'orange from France, holy poo poo. The Garden Margarita in Mexico smells straight up like grass clippings but is actually delicious and packs a wallop. The new Native American exhibit is really cool too-- we usually pass on the America pavilion because meh but my wife is a history buff so she wanted to drop in and it was really interesting and well done. Also check out this loving loser   We saw him at Magic Kingdom on Thursday and laughed at him, then saw him again at Epcot two days later, which means this greasy dork has been wearing his dumb shirt for at least three days straight 
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Mar 29, 2021 15:01
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Why are you surprised that some piece of poo poo that supports trash like that is runnin around down there right now? He probably complained about masks being mandatory and tried every way in the world to find some way around them. I hope he cried. I'm one shot in to vaccination, my second shot is april 20th, and I'm wary about my trip for the 50th at this point because we're still posting like 60-80k infections a day a lot.  E: any pictures from the actual exhibit? what tribes are they focusing on?
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Mar 29, 2021 15:09
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:E: any pictures from the actual exhibit? what tribes are they focusing on? There were exhibits divided up by region, and they tied it into contemporary times by showing how Native American art has inspired some amazing high-end modern fashion. I was mostly taking pictures of her being fascinated but these are what I got:  
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Mar 29, 2021 15:19
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:Why are you surprised that some piece of poo poo that supports trash like that is runnin around down there right now? He probably complained about masks being mandatory and tried every way in the world to find some way around them. yeah we're the same. we're going for the 50th, we're going to be fully vaccinated within a month, and watching the way Florida is like the third world with COVID, I am worried. I think I might rather die of COVID than listen to my wife say we didn't go to Disney this year though lol
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Mar 29, 2021 15:23
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