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Agrias120 posted:Sentinels is a huge hit with my group, and I'm in the same boat as you. I have almost everything from 1.0, including the big storage box (which I kind of hate because it makes it no longer portable). I really want to go in on this, but the prospect of them being pulled into buying all the sets a second time as they are re-released doesn't sound great. I wrestled with that for a bit before looking at my bookshelf behind me and seeing five D&Ds, four Gamma Worlds, and five Shadowruns. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that it's an improved game. There are a few things I could see getting cleaned up and improved.
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Mar 30, 2021 18:07
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Agrias120 posted:Sentinels is a huge hit with my group, and I'm in the same boat as you. I have almost everything from 1.0, including the big storage box (which I kind of hate because it makes it no longer portable). I really want to go in on this, but the prospect of them being pulled into buying all the sets a second time as they are re-released doesn't sound great. AAAAAND there's a hilarious wrinkle in this which is that I also backed "Sentinels of Earth-Prime," which funded in May 2017 and still hasn't delivered yet (maybe this year???). https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1780208966/sentinels-of-earth-prime The most ridiculous thing is that in the last couple of months they were mulling over whether to go back and revise all their cards to be compatible with the new edition, which would screw all the backers who aren't interested in getting the new version. They thankfully relented and kept it compatible with the old edition, but they should never have allowed themselves to be in that position in the first place. The most important thing for a revised Sentinels would be extremely streamlining or giving better tools to track status conditions and damage calculations. I don't know enough about the new edition to see whether they did that successfully or not. I don't think the art/card design is that much improved to the naked eye. I'm one of the people who thought the Deviantart-level art was charming. JazzFlight fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 18:07
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JazzFlight posted:The most ridiculous thing is that in the last couple of months they were mulling over whether to go back and revise all their cards to be compatible with the new edition, which would screw all the backers who aren't interested in getting the new version. They thankfully relented and kept it compatible with the old edition, but they should never have allowed themselves to be in that position in the first place. Same! I saw people early that were super pissed at GTG for publishing a new edition while this thing is still coming out, but poo poo that KS is what, six years behind schedule? That's not a fair albatross to hang on another company.
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Mar 30, 2021 18:11
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I hadn't bought into Sentinels yet, so I'll probably end up backing this. There are instructions linked there for using the previous edition content with the definitive edition core as well, which is good.
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Mar 30, 2021 18:12
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MORE SPIRE MORE SPIRE MORE SPIRE https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gshowitt/sin-a-spire-rpg-sourcebook
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Mar 30, 2021 18:22
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gimme dat spore
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Mar 30, 2021 18:54
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gonna roll it up and snort it like a dead god's bible
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Mar 30, 2021 18:55
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Agrias120 posted:Sentinels is a huge hit with my group, and I'm in the same boat as you. I have almost everything from 1.0, including the big storage box (which I kind of hate because it makes it no longer portable). I really want to go in on this, but the prospect of them being pulled into buying all the sets a second time as they are re-released doesn't sound great. On the one hand, yeah, totally agree (and about how impractical the all-in-one box ended up being, alas). On the other hand, this release has more stuff than the old core box and so I'd expect the total revamped run to be more like 3-4 boxes total. Rather than, what...seven or something? Unless they keep expanding it, of course. But like, in theory they were done with doing that.
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Mar 30, 2021 19:38
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I'm fine with them doing this but also fine with not picking the new edition up. Sentinels holds a special place in my heart and I'll still play it again for nostalgia's sake from time to time. But I'm not getting on that train and riding the ride a second go-round when other games have iterated on the Sentinels formula and made it more fun (for my taste). I could buy more Sentinels... or I could actually pull out all that Street Masters content I bought that I think, generally, does Sentinels better (enough so that they should have definitely given them more of a shout-out as a key design inspiration). I'd like to return to the Sentinels universe, but with a new game or a true sequel.
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Mar 30, 2021 20:54
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Memnaelar posted:I'd like to return to the Sentinels universe, but with a new game or a true sequel.
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Mar 30, 2021 21:14
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They made it such a pain in the rear end to keep track of what I had and what I didn't that I just gave up on Sentinels after getting maybe 70% of the cards.
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Mar 30, 2021 21:26
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Echophonic posted:They made it such a pain in the rear end to keep track of what I had and what I didn't that I just gave up on Sentinels after getting maybe 70% of the cards. That's one of the states intents of the new edition. No more random blister packs containing like one environment. I never knew why they were doing that nonsense, figured it was either to have con merch or to try to cover a price point spread.
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Mar 30, 2021 21:53
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JazzFlight posted:Actually, that makes me wonder if this wouldn't have just been better as a sequel with all-new content... Of course, that would probably be a ton more work for the designers, but I think it would have had a lot more appeal from past supporters. They specifically said with OblivAeon that it was the end of the Sentinels of the Multiverse line. A new edition doesn't really violate that, but a sequel? It'd either be more of the same game, which definitely would, or it'd be a new game, which...I'm gonna be honest, I haven't been impressed with their other stabs at new games. (Though I hear Sentinel Comics the RPG is great, and is basically where the setting's gone.) I'd totally be up for them taking the existing formula and going into a new setting or theme, though. For all that Memnaelar has said other games have iterated on it, there really isn't much as far as I can tell. It's pretty much the Sadlers doing their big minifests with Blacklist. And like, Street Masters is good, and I'm hoping Altar Quest is (haven't tried it yet), but for my taste it's definitely not better, and the minis really make the whole thing a lot more obnoxious for me. (They're not even *good* minis, if you ask me.). I'd personally rather see what G>G would do.
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Mar 30, 2021 21:59
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theironjef posted:That's one of the states intents of the new edition. No more random blister packs containing like one environment. I never knew why they were doing that nonsense, figured it was either to have con merch or to try to cover a price point spread. Kickstarter freebies.
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Mar 30, 2021 22:00
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In retrospect that makes a ton of sense. I know I have the whole dang set, at least. I still look forward to a day when Bunker isn't an absolute trash pick.
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Mar 30, 2021 22:02
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theironjef posted:In retrospect that makes a ton of sense. I also think it's really cool that if you swap in a different promo hero card for their main power, it shifts your approach to playing the character completely, but with the same deck otherwise.
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Mar 30, 2021 22:43
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Agrias120 posted:Sentinels is a huge hit with my group, and I'm in the same boat as you. I have almost everything from 1.0, including the big storage box (which I kind of hate because it makes it no longer portable). I really want to go in on this, but the prospect of them being pulled into buying all the sets a second time as they are re-released doesn't sound great. 
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Mar 31, 2021 00:10
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As someone who has never played sentinels. It looks a lot like marvel champions? What are the main differences? I'm not sure I need yet another cooperative superhero card game
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Mar 31, 2021 00:51
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Oops, backed So, You’ve Been Eaten at the highest level. Only a few hours to go and it’s been glaring at me all week.
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Mar 31, 2021 01:00
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Jarvisi posted:As someone who has never played sentinels. It looks a lot like marvel champions? What are the main differences? I'm not sure I need yet another cooperative superhero card game A big difference is that every hero, villain and environment is their own custom designed deck and there is no deckbuilding required. IMO this also makes it more thematic. For another, it's not an LCG so they're not dripfeeding a constant stream of expensive content. (Though depending on how long Marvel Champions sticks around you could well end up with a lot more content.) There's no real equivalent of the Alter Ego/Hero concept from Marvel Champions (though a couple heroes have multiple forms or aspects), or schemes - though that isn't to say villains just punch you all the time. One villain is secretly working for the heroes and you have to expose her as evil before you can fight her (she gums up the works for you until then, and tosses distractions at you, etc), another is one of the heroes at another point in time and so you have to fight her nightmares without hurting her. And so on and so forth. I think both heroes and villains get significantly more creative in their core design than in Marvel Champions, but the baseline mechanics are a bit simpler and of course, there's no deckbuilding. I definitely feel you on not needing multiple cooperative superhero card games. That's why I didn't buy into Marvel Champions (I don't like deckbuilding and prefer the more thematic unique decks) and skipped Hour of Need (which is more like Sentinels, but with a board, minis, and a universe I just don't see myself getting into). I think there are probably arguments for either being the better buy.
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Mar 31, 2021 01:05
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So, I wanna talk spire and the Kickstarter for the new Sin sourcebook. First, Spire is both a brilliant boiled down system (albeit showing its age somewhat compared to Heart), and has some of the most incredible flavor/fluff I’ve ever read in an RPG. There are a thousand weird and cool little things to spin tales off of in every bit of the writing of these games. I am disappointed though to see that the Magister’s Guide, which is supposed to address one of the common criticisms of the system (no mechanical guidance for running a revolution in a game about revolution), is once again locked behind a high end stretch goal. It’s at the same high end stretchgoal it was for the previous supplement, one which was not reached by the campaign. Instead, there are stretchgoals for more art (good), a few very specific maps (decent), and a quick start adventure (doesn’t one of these already kind of exist?). I’m curious what folks closer to the business think. Do mechanics for GMs sell worse than maps, art, or quickstarts? Is that the likely reasoning?
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Mar 31, 2021 01:25
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Guessing it's probably more work.
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Mar 31, 2021 01:32
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malkav11 posted:Guessing it's probably more work. It’s like the same amount of extra money as the other goals, though. Maybe the goals are staggered from least investment to most?
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Mar 31, 2021 01:42
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Redundant posted:It looks like JoCo2 is up. I'm not sure I will ever get to play it in real life but the one game I played online was a lot of fun and I like Cole's games as a general rule so might back it anyway. I don't know how often I'll get it to the table, but I sure as hell am backing it. I was never able to find a reasonably priced copy of the first edition, and after Pamir, I trust Cole on the rework.
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Mar 31, 2021 02:48
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fr0id posted:So, I wanna talk spire and the Kickstarter for the new Sin sourcebook. First, Spire is both a brilliant boiled down system (albeit showing its age somewhat compared to Heart) If you don't mind me asking, how did they improve it? I own Spire but skipped Heart due to not being all that interested in the premise. If they advanced the rules I'd love to hear how.
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Mar 31, 2021 03:33
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EverettLO posted:If you don't mind me asking, how did they improve it? I own Spire but skipped Heart due to not being all that interested in the premise. If they advanced the rules I'd love to hear how. So, there are few things. They streamlined “damage/effect dice to d4/d6/d8/d10/d12 rather than flat amounts or minus. These die sizes also figure into threat levels, both for NPCs and the environment. Equipment also scales the same way, but the rules do a bad job of saying “hey this is when the groups equipment should scale up.” If you don’t do they, youll be tempted to get rid of damage rife, which does fit the general systems pretty well. Another positive change is that armor goes from being this sort of ablative regenerating thing to just being flat damage reduction but very hard to come but. Puts a lot of emphasis on armored classes. There are some other small things that just make the game run more smoothly for players and GM. The change in damage definitely makes the game run more smoothly. The core loop of it is still there. Your players will take damage for half of more of their rolls. They’ll succeed on 2/3 or more of them. If you could lay out what you disliked about the core idea I could lay out more ofwhaf you may like or dislike. The core of heart is that about half of every roll hurts. Half or so of those rolls hurt permanently. And you’ll either be a broken monster to get get in the game, or the GM will have to break it for players who don’t know how to be broken monsters. It’s a game that wants players to break it. If they don’t, it’s up to the GM to lower difficulty (ie number of rolls and/or use of damage dice) to deal with players more interested in roleplay than numbers Heart actually works quite well as a story game resistant to power gamers. Conversely, you’ll have to lower the difficulty for non-power gamers
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Mar 31, 2021 05:01
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fr0id posted:So, I wanna talk spire and the Kickstarter for the new Sin sourcebook. First, Spire is both a brilliant boiled down system (albeit showing its age somewhat compared to Heart), and has some of the most incredible flavor/fluff I’ve ever read in an RPG. There are a thousand weird and cool little things to spin tales off of in every bit of the writing of these games. There are probably a lot of factors at play but if you made me categorize those things you list in order of which I think is more likely to attract more sales and which is less likely, I would definitely put maps and art and quickstarts ahead of a GM mechanical rule framework. I say this as someone who's said in the past that the lack of such a framework is something I think is a notable omission of Spire.
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Mar 31, 2021 05:01
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theironjef posted:That's one of the states intents of the new edition. No more random blister packs containing like one environment. I never knew why they were doing that nonsense, figured it was either to have con merch or to try to cover a price point spread. It was really frustrating. I remember going to the store and finding, like, Unity but they never had her corresponding villain Ambuscade and as far as I could tell never got reprinted so it was very hard to not have holes in your collection. I wound up buying the whole thing on Steam which is frankly a much easier way to play and I'm hoping the new edition is along those lines.
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Mar 31, 2021 15:19
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Dawgstar posted:It was really frustrating. I remember going to the store and finding, like, Unity but they never had her corresponding villain Ambuscade and as far as I could tell never got reprinted so it was very hard to not have holes in your collection. I wound up buying the whole thing on Steam which is frankly a much easier way to play and I'm hoping the new edition is along those lines. Yeah, I also got into it late (the only KS I ever supported for it was Oblivaeon) and ended up getting all those blister packs either off the GTG website directly or Miniaturemarket (even then a lot of them weren't worth it, can't say I feel like my collection is better off for having Celestial Tribunal or Wager Master). It was definitely a lesson for me in how FOMO kickstarters suck after the fact. Hopefully that's a lesson they've seen too, since this KS has no stretch or add-on goals beyond some kinda ugly sleeves. Personally I'm mostly interested in seeing if their attempts to balance and streamline gameplay will fix up the experience of those team villains. Playing a four player game with nine card decks felt completely unwieldy, but I really liked a lot of those villains, so it's a hope of mine that that expansion will become more user friendly.
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Mar 31, 2021 16:20
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theironjef posted:Yeah, I also got into it late (the only KS I ever supported for it was Oblivaeon) and ended up getting all those blister packs either off the GTG website directly or Miniaturemarket (even then a lot of them weren't worth it, can't say I feel like my collection is better off for having Celestial Tribunal or Wager Master). It was definitely a lesson for me in how FOMO kickstarters suck after the fact. Hopefully that's a lesson they've seen too, since this KS has no stretch or add-on goals beyond some kinda ugly sleeves. I have played Wager Master on the digital version and attempted to play him in the physical version, and I wouldn't ever want to pull him out again at the table. There's just too many changes happening constantly. The digital game tracks that for you, which makes him bearable.
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Mar 31, 2021 16:31
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Tsilkani posted:I have played Wager Master on the digital version and attempted to play him in the physical version, and I wouldn't ever want to pull him out again at the table. There's just too many changes happening constantly. The digital game tracks that for you, which makes him bearable. It's weird how the exact same character feel better in that game than on the table. I have that problem with Fanatic, since when you're playing with three other people her boardwipe is always reacted to like you just punched everyone. But she feels great when you're controlling all the characters. And yeah, half the time I run Wager Master in the videogame I'll just win out of nowhere because even then I couldn't keep track of the shifting conditions. I just usually don't use him.
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Mar 31, 2021 16:37
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I like Wager Master, but I've never had much trouble tracking stuff in Sentinels. (While I constantly miss or forget stuff in Spirit Island, go figure.) Similarly, my problem with the team villains wasn't the amount of management, it's that they don't feel balanced and too many of them gently caress with your setup. The game's biggest problem, IMO, is that a lot of the characters rely heavily on setup and even the ones that are effective without a lot of it use enough that regularly taking away your ongoing and equipment is just not a good feeling and there are a bunch of villains that do a lot of that. Especially the team ones. Especially with Vengeance pre-Villains of the Multiverse, where you only got to avoid Vixen if you were playing under 5 and even then, you really locked in what setups you could use. It sounds like the redesigns make heroes like Bunker and Absolute Zero less vulnerable to that kind of stuff, but I'm also hoping they just generally tune how villains handle that sort of thing.
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Mar 31, 2021 16:52
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Yeah, a lot of the villains are much, much harder than they're rated if you're playing a hero that relies heavily on Equipment or Ongoing engines. Which is kind of the point of those villains, but if you're playing someone like Absolute Zero and none of the other heroes have equipment out, and the Villain does something like 'Discard H Equipment cards', you've just been rendered useless.
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Mar 31, 2021 16:56
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A cohesive top down design would help with that, since yeah. And you can tell they learned the problem at a certain point because heros like Stuntman, Benchmark, and Luminary clearly have all sorts of gear that's conveniently not tagged as equipment.
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Mar 31, 2021 17:39
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I kinda wish they'll skip the villain team expansions this time. It just seemed like too much overhead to have that many decks to manage. Also, with Oblivaeon, I read reviews where people said they kinda enjoyed playing through it all, but it was a massive undertaking and they would never want to play it that way again.
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Mar 31, 2021 17:40
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If they wanted to go back to team villains I'd probably rather have a setup where each villain is functional as a solo villain and then you do...I dunno, something... to scale things so that it's feasible to fight more than one of them at once.
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Mar 31, 2021 18:03
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JazzFlight posted:I kinda wish they'll skip the villain team expansions this time. It just seemed like too much overhead to have that many decks to manage. It's definitely got its issues and is another thing I'd only play on Steam. It takes so much set up and even for Sentinels it can be easy to get facerolled. I mean if you ever, you know, beat OblivAeon it's great but it's going to be your Event of the Night and everybody needs to be onboard.
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Mar 31, 2021 19:03
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fr0id posted:So, there are few things. They streamlined “damage/effect dice to d4/d6/d8/d10/d12 rather than flat amounts or minus. These die sizes also figure into threat levels, both for NPCs and the environment. Equipment also scales the same way, but the rules do a bad job of saying “hey this is when the groups equipment should scale up.” If you don’t do they, youll be tempted to get rid of damage rife, which does fit the general systems pretty well. The rules changes seem good and got me to cough up the money for the PDF. I didn't really dislike anything about Heart, but the premise of 'esoteric dungeon crawl' just doesn't grab me the same way 'fantasy resistance fighters' does. Backporting some of these rules changes to a homebrew Spire campaign I want to create seems like a good idea, but it will take careful thought so as to avoid botching the entire Stress system. As it stands, I feel like the original stress system is too brutal at times, even considering the tone they're trying to produce.
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Mar 31, 2021 20:16
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I never picked up Sentinels of the Multiverse, due to the reported fiddliness. Though I did get Sentinel Tactics for a song on Ebay because I needed some superhero minis. This new version looks pretty good. Also someone upthread said something about the sleeves being ugly. I thought that too, but they're actually transparent, just in ugly packaging.
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Mar 31, 2021 22:28
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El Fideo posted:I never picked up Sentinels of the Multiverse, due to the reported fiddliness. Though I did get Sentinel Tactics for a song on Ebay because I needed some superhero minis. This new version looks pretty good. Oh good that makes me feel better about passing on them, I have a million transparent sleeves around.
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Apr 1, 2021 00:11
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