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So, I'm trying to narrow down choices for my first bike; so far I seem to prefer the naked/adv look, and I'd like something pretty reliable and easy to get parts/service for, preferably with ABS. My goal is to eventually do some motocamping so there may be a need to wander off pavement a bit, but most likely the majority of my riding will be in-city and I'd like to be able to take a passenger at times (which would be a total of ~300lbs) so it should have enough hp to manage that easily. I've seen all the advice to just get a cheap 125/250 to start with, and I've taken that to heart, but if I can avoid having to replace my first bike within a year after buying it to get the bike I really want/need that would be nice. I'm taking the MSF in a few weeks and am planning to take into consideration how well I do/how confident I am on the bikes there to help shape this decision as well.
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Apr 9, 2021 17:47
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bizwank posted:So, I'm trying to narrow down choices for my first bike; so far I seem to prefer the naked/adv look, and I'd like something pretty reliable and easy to get parts/service for, preferably with ABS. My goal is to eventually do some motocamping so there may be a need to wander off pavement a bit, but most likely the majority of my riding will be in-city and I'd like to be able to take a passenger at times (which would be a total of ~300lbs) so it should have enough hp to manage that easily. I've seen all the advice to just get a cheap 125/250 to start with, and I've taken that to heart, but if I can avoid having to replace my first bike within a year after buying it to get the bike I really want/need that would be nice. I'm taking the MSF in a few weeks and am planning to take into consideration how well I do/how confident I am on the bikes there to help shape this decision as well. I don’t mean to be difficult about this, but the answer to your question is still “get a bike to learn on, then get a new bike.” You should, of course, get one you like because the purpose of bikes is to make you happy. But you will be better served with getting a 250/300 which will do just fine in the city with a passenger and then getting another bike later. I do not personally recommend riding with a passenger soon after getting your new bike but I also get it. So just make sure you’re extra careful about more braking room.
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Apr 9, 2021 18:02
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bizwank posted:So, I'm trying to narrow down choices for my first bike; so far I seem to prefer the naked/adv look, and I'd like something pretty reliable and easy to get parts/service for, preferably with ABS. My goal is to eventually do some motocamping so there may be a need to wander off pavement a bit, but most likely the majority of my riding will be in-city and I'd like to be able to take a passenger at times (which would be a total of ~300lbs) so it should have enough hp to manage that easily. I've seen all the advice to just get a cheap 125/250 to start with, and I've taken that to heart, but if I can avoid having to replace my first bike within a year after buying it to get the bike I really want/need that would be nice. I'm taking the MSF in a few weeks and am planning to take into consideration how well I do/how confident I am on the bikes there to help shape this decision as well. Ordinarily I wouldn't recommend buying your first bike new, but given what COVID-19 has done to prices in the used bike market and the specific kind of bike you're looking for (assuming you're in the US): https://www.kawasaki.com/en-us/motorcycle/versys/adventure-touring/versys-x-300?cm_re=GLOBALNAV-_-PRODUCTGROUPLIST-_-MPP builds character's point about not riding with a passenger as a new rider is spot on - get a few thousand miles under your belt before you put someone else on the back of your bike
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Apr 9, 2021 18:03
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Jazzzzz posted:Ordinarily I wouldn't recommend buying your first bike new, but given what COVID-19 has done to prices in the used bike market and the specific kind of bike you're looking for (assuming you're in the US): https://www.kawasaki.com/en-us/motorcycle/klx/supermoto/klx300sm
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Apr 9, 2021 18:05
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builds character posted:I don’t mean to be difficult about this, but the answer to your question is still “get a bike to learn on, then get a new bike.” You should, of course, get one you like because the purpose of bikes is to make you happy. But you will be better served with getting a 250/300 which will do just fine in the city with a passenger and then getting another bike later. I do not personally recommend riding with a passenger soon after getting your new bike but I also get it. So just make sure you’re extra careful about more braking room. Jazzzzz posted:Ordinarily I wouldn't recommend buying your first bike new, but given what COVID-19 has done to prices in the used bike market and the specific kind of bike you're looking for (assuming you're in the US):
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Apr 9, 2021 18:30
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bizwank posted:Sorry, forgot to add that yes, I'll be waiting until I'm very comfortable with the bike before adding a passenger. I've got some experience 2-upping on scooters but I'm trying to ease into all of this as safely as possible. I don't really want to go over 300 for my first bike but if I can find the right 300 then maybe it will buy me more time before needing to upgrade, is what I'm thinking. You are drastically, drastically overestimating how quickly you'll need to 'upgrade' and underestimating what it takes to learn to ride properly. You're also overestimating how much power/size you need. Are you a car person? Not being a dick, your posts just read like every car person getting a bike I've ever seen - fixation on size/power, focus on utilities you'll barely need vs the very enormous and critical task of learning how to not be poo poo and not die (which takes many years btw!), the notion that you can upgrade somehow as if there's a continuum of bikes to crawl your way up like pokemon, the lack of awareness that the bike is less than half of the equation, and so on. Now hear this: nothing your crazy ignorant brain tells you is worth a drat. It may seem condescending but seriously, we've been here hundreds of times: you are focusing on the wrong poo poo. Do as the learner thread tells you and a year from now you'll understand for yourself why we're right. Get a generic 300 or enduro with a few bruises, good tyres and riding gear, learn to not be poo poo through training and obsessive self improvement on each and every ride, all that other stuff is irrelevant and will remain so for quite some time.
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Apr 9, 2021 18:41
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bizwank posted:So, I'm trying to narrow down choices for my first bike; so far I seem to prefer the naked/adv look, and I'd like something pretty reliable and easy to get parts/service for, preferably with ABS. My goal is to eventually do some motocamping so there may be a need to wander off pavement a bit, but most likely the majority of my riding will be in-city and I'd like to be able to take a passenger at times (which would be a total of ~300lbs) so it should have enough hp to manage that easily. I've seen all the advice to just get a cheap 125/250 to start with, and I've taken that to heart, but if I can avoid having to replace my first bike within a year after buying it to get the bike I really want/need that would be nice. I'm taking the MSF in a few weeks and am planning to take into consideration how well I do/how confident I am on the bikes there to help shape this decision as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6g6_CJZI_c To that list I'd add the KTM 390 Duke, Yamaha MT-03. If you want a dual sport (and I agree with Fortnine about why starting with a small dual sport is best) but find them too tall the Yamaha XT250. BabelFish fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Apr 9, 2021 |
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Apr 9, 2021 20:20
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A low displacement supermoto is always the best answer for new rider first bike. This will let you sample all kinds of riding, including off road, and are usually very reliable and easy to maintain. I'm hoping the new KLXsm will be a good WR250X analogue, and am very tempted by it at that price point. Needs white plastics.
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Apr 9, 2021 20:40
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I just want to chime in and say that I love my XT250, it's a fun bike, and there is a reason Yamaha has been making some variation of it since the 80's. I haven't ridden one, but I would totally get a VersysX, and one of my neighbors has a Duke 390, and it's a  looking bike.
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Apr 9, 2021 20:40
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390's are garbage, don't buy one ever. Everything else being said is 100% right.
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Apr 9, 2021 20:42
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Slavvy posted:the notion that you can upgrade somehow as if there's a continuum of bikes to crawl your way up like pokemon If you live long enough to make it to the top, you unlock New Game+ Hard mode: jump straight to a literbike as your first and skip the preliminary steps  (You are mandated to get a GoPro if you do that though)Slavvy posted:390's are garbage, don't buy one ever. Everything else being said is 100% right. You've probably gone over it already but what specifically makes the 390 a bad choice? It pops up in a lot of the motorcycle top 3 beginner sport bikes recommendation lists.
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Apr 9, 2021 21:51
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RightClickSaveAs posted:You've probably gone over it already but what specifically makes the 390 a bad choice? It pops up in a lot of the motorcycle top 3 beginner sport bikes recommendation lists. It's a KTM (unreliable) made in India on the cheap (unreliable ^ infinity) and parts availability is laughable - pretty sure one of Slavvy's customers found out the hard way that if you need a new crank (?) bearing, you have to order new engine cases because the bearings aren't considered replaceable wear items
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Apr 9, 2021 22:08
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Coydog posted:A low displacement supermoto is always the best answer for new rider first bike. This will let you sample all kinds of riding, including off road, and are usually very reliable and easy to maintain. I'm hoping the new KLXsm will be a good WR250X analogue, and am very tempted by it at that price point. Revzilla liked it, but moto "journalists" always like new bikes.
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Apr 9, 2021 22:13
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RightClickSaveAs posted:this continuum is 300 > i4 600 > literbike > supercharged literbike, btw 300> i4 600> litrebike> sumo NG+ is having children and buying those tiny dirtbikes for them
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Apr 9, 2021 22:16
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RightClickSaveAs posted:this continuum is 300 > i4 600 > literbike > supercharged literbike, btw It's cause they're poo OP. Jazzzzz posted:It's a KTM (unreliable) made in India on the cheap (unreliable ^ infinity) and parts availability is laughable - pretty sure one of Slavvy's customers found out the hard way that if you need a new crank (?) bearing, you have to order new engine cases because the bearings aren't considered replaceable wear items Yep, main bearing shells are considered part of the cases so even a minor oil/crank whoopsie and you're down for a new engine. Oh btw that particular bike? It now smokes on startup despite having new seals, rings and piston and a bore that was perfectly in spec. Literally not fixable. I asked the ktm dealer (who also sell kawasaki, Yamaha, and ducati) what they do in this situation, the guy told me that any engine related warranty claims are met with a refund and the bike either gets put in a crate to go back to india or auctioned off to wreckers/speculators. They do their absolute best to avoid ever working on them and there was some frustration expressed at being backed into a corner by a manufacturer who wants to sell thousands of learner bikes but doesn't want to build them to a first world standard or make them fixable at all. EVEN IF ALL OF THIS WEREN'T TRUE there just isn't anything to recommend them over an r3 - they are very unrefined, have horrible build quality, parts are far too expensive for a learner bike, the loving frame turns yellow if you don't park indoors. They are poo poo, idk what else to say. Oh and NG+ when you decide you know everything, try racing and realise you know nothing.
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Apr 10, 2021 00:18
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Fauxtool posted:300> i4 600> litrebike> sumo   Currently in a state of disassembly to clean the carb
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Apr 10, 2021 15:06
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The carb it turns out was pretty clean The air cleaner was.....not 
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Apr 10, 2021 19:36
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Dirt bikes, especially kids bikes get neglected like no other. A buddy's old ttr125 from the 90s has likely never had anything but gas put in the tank. Definitely get a new air filter.
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Apr 10, 2021 23:12
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Already on its way from Amazon. I was worried I had a mouse in the garage and then I realized it’s likely been this way since it came out of the barn where we bought it last fall I also learned while cleaning the carb that a lot of modern Hondas have switched from having brass covers over their pilot screws to having d-shaped pilot screw heads. I thought I was gonna have to drill the brass cap off the pilot screw until I did some research and learned it’s not a cap it’s a special security head and of course Amazon has the driver for cheap, so that’s on its way as well https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VKNOEW6/
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Apr 10, 2021 23:31
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Those D-screws are enraging and applied totally inconsistently, I always replace them with a normal one.
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Apr 10, 2021 23:59
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I don't know if this should go in the dirt thread or this one, but there's probably enough overlap that it doesn't really matter. I want to get a dirt bike. I also don't know poo poo about dirt bikes. My brother-in-law just bought a quad, and my FIL got a rzr, so I figured I'd join them with something I'd find fun to ride. From the little bit of research I've done, I'm leaning Honda CRF125F. It's kind of weird that they classify them as being for younger riders and small adults, but I saw MotoGeo review one and it looked like a pretty normal size. Either way I'm 5'9 so I guess that's on the smaller side. I know I'm going backwards here, riding street for ten years and then getting a dirt bike, but what do you guys think of the CRF125F?
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Apr 11, 2021 20:08
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Strife posted:I don't know if this should go in the dirt thread or this one, but there's probably enough overlap that it doesn't really matter. I rode one the other day! Assuming you mean the water cooled kind with the proper chassis parts. It was fun and fast but also really scary because it didn't have full sized wheels and was designed for a teenager. The dirt knowers will be along shortly but imo a 250F from the big four is a good start, or a 2t 125. A 21" wheel is mandatory.
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Apr 11, 2021 20:32
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Slavvy posted:I rode one the other day! Assuming you mean the water cooled kind with the proper chassis parts. It was fun and fast but also really scary because it didn't have full sized wheels and was designed for a teenager. What's a bigger front wheel for, anyway? I know it confers to better performance in the dirt but how? Remember I'm coming from a mostly Harley Davidson background, where people put 21" front wheels on because they want their bikes to look stupid and ride like poo poo. Edit: After another 10 minutes of research, yeah, I think the CRF250F is a better bet. Strife fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Apr 11, 2021 |
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Apr 11, 2021 20:41
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The bigger your wheel, the easier it will ride over ruts and bumps and the more steering authority you have. Really old timey bikes had 22's or even 23's but 21 seems to be the happy medium just like 17" is for the road. The back wheel being big is also important but less so. My again very ignorant opinion: the YZ250FX is the best of the 250F's, they are supremely easy to ride, extremely reliable and very, very plush and forgiving for people with no skill like me. From a mechanic's perspective I am not a fan of the honda unicam engine, they are reliable enough I guess but needlessly fiddly and complicated and have lots of innovation for it's own sake, the yamaha and suzuki are much more conventional and ride the same.
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Apr 11, 2021 21:22
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Big wheels with skinny tires also just work better in loose stuff. They cut through and dig in rather than floating over like a wider wheel would.
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Apr 11, 2021 21:33
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Sagebrush posted:Big wheels with skinny tires also just work better in loose stuff. They cut through and dig in rather than floating over like a wider wheel would. wouldnt that be due to the speed of the bigger wheel and nothing to do with the width of the tire? An equally sized wheel with a wider tire has a larger contact patch which means more traction. Is that not how it works?
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Apr 11, 2021 22:36
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Fauxtool posted:wouldnt that be due to the speed of the bigger wheel and nothing to do with the width of the tire? An equally sized wheel with a wider tire has a larger contact patch which means more traction. That is, in fact, not how it works. Dirt tyres work like a jet boat, the knobs basically act like tiny shovels trying to push the dirt backwards (or forwards, when braking). Some of the dirt is ejected in a reaction jet but most of it is attached to planet earth so the bike goes forward instead. You get far more and better purchase by having more rows of knobs in contact with the ground than having the rows be slightly wider. Then on top of that, large skinny tyres have a longer 'lever' to apply steering force with ie the extremities of the contract patch are further away from the center point. And finally, bigger diameter = bigger obstacles that can be traversed. For an alternative use of all these principles see: tanks, diggers. Wide fat tyres reduce ground pressure and help you float over stuff. This is super helpful when you're in a multi ton vehicle that can't fall over, it's loving useless when you're on a bike and you need the wheels to dig in.
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Apr 11, 2021 22:48
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Strife posted:What's a bigger front wheel for, anyway? I know it confers to better performance in the dirt but how? Remember I'm coming from a mostly Harley Davidson background, where people put 21" front wheels on because they want their bikes to look stupid and ride like poo poo. Take it to the extreme of the example to understand what the size does. Imagine if your dirtbike front tire was the size of a roller skate wheel. It would get snagged on absolutely everything and even small pebbles would be too big to get over. Just riding in grass would be a nightmare As you expand the diameter that problem goes away more and more. Take it to the other extreme. Imagine if it had monster truck tires. You could literally roll over large logs and something the size of a refrigerator without really even noticing it. That’s the biggest reason that wheel size matters off-road Naturally both the roller skate wheel and the monster truck tire are not a good fit for a dirtbike, so they strike a balance. Of course this is to say nothing of width or tire compound or tread pattern but in general: bigger size=bigger obstacles you can get over Beve Stuscemi fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Apr 11, 2021 |
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Apr 11, 2021 22:53
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Indeed, the bigger wheel problem is where caterpillar tracks come from. The very first tanks were explicitly designed with the ground-touching run off the track being analogous to the ground touching segment of a giant 40m wheel so they could cross wide trenches easily. The imperial russians thought this was too complicated and decided to just cut to the heart of the matter: 
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Apr 11, 2021 23:09
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That was all very helpful, thanks guys. I particularly appreciate when physics examples involve tanks.Slavvy posted:My again very ignorant opinion: the YZ250FX is the best of the 250F's, they are supremely easy to ride, extremely reliable and very, very plush and forgiving for people with no skill like me. From a mechanic's perspective I am not a fan of the honda unicam engine, they are reliable enough I guess but needlessly fiddly and complicated and have lots of innovation for it's own sake, the yamaha and suzuki are much more conventional and ride the same. The only problem there is the Suzuki and Yamaha are like double the cost of the Honda. I'd buy used, because I've heard you can't really kill a dirt bike, but the used market around here for seemingly everything is pretty dire. (except office furniture)
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Apr 11, 2021 23:47
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Slavvy posted:The bigger your wheel, the easier it will ride over ruts and bumps and the more steering authority you have. Really old timey bikes had 22's or even 23's but 21 seems to be the happy medium just like 17" is for the road. The back wheel being big is also important but less so. Thought you had a red dirt bike at one point tho 🤔
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Apr 11, 2021 23:57
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Strife posted:That was all very helpful, thanks guys. I particularly appreciate when physics examples involve tanks. What kind of riding are you going to be doing? Just like dirt roads with quads? A fast RZR? Have you watched any of the cross training enduro videos and thought “wait, holy poo poo yes please”? Do you need something plated?
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Apr 12, 2021 02:26
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Strife posted:I don't know if this should go in the dirt thread or this one, but there's probably enough overlap that it doesn't really matter. You'll more than likely not be racing motocross so look into trail bikes by yamaha, honda or kawasaki. 125 four strokes are pretty small even for new riders. You will probably be tall enough to flat foot the 125 which is great for learning but not for riding. It will limit the suspension travel and you'll likely outgrow it quickly. Look into 250 four strokes with 21 front tires and 18-19 inch rear. Entry level adult sized trail bikes Yamaha TTR 230, Honda Crf 250f, kawasaki klx230 These bikes below will be bigger and more powerful bikes. Advanced trail bikes Yamaha wr250f or yz250fx, honda crf250rx, kawasaki kx250X or klx300 Even though the engines are near the same size from a CC stand point as the beginner bikes above, they will be much higher performance in every way. They're faster, lighter, more acceleration, more ground clearance, more torque. The suspension will be taller and also more advanced which will make the bike sit higher off the ground. Im 5'10" and weigh 165lbs and can touch both toes on my wr250f. They'll also cost more but they'll likely have a better resale value as they're more desirable but covid has caused all dirt bike resale value to skyrocket so who even knows anymore. But you should do it, it's a ton of fun. Brake mostly with the rear, enjoy feathering the clutch and experience your bike naturally wanting to flat track itself on dirt or gravel roads. Most important, if you have the money to buy a bike, spend the few hundred bucks for the right gear. People are always talking about all the gear all the time for road riding, I would say even moreso for dirt. Helmet, riding boots, gloves, goggles at a minimum. If you're going into trails with trees/roots/rocks etc, consider knee pads and chest protector to help avoid getting impaled on a broken branch. I can't stress the significance of good boots. Also look into where you're riding. Most national forest roads require street legality. Some state lands only require orv tabs to ride roads. Wherever you're riding the most will likely dictate what you need. Some bikes are easier to make street legal than others (headlight brake light etc). Verman fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 07:19
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Verman posted:Entry level adult sized trail bikes Thanks Verman, that's exactly what I'm looking for. It seems like supply is pretty hosed up right now, which limits my choices quite a bit after calling the nearby dealerships. Basically the only bike I could find is maybe a TTR230 in stock at the place I bought my Scrambler, so I'm gonna go check that out tomorrow because they're closed today. The other 3 of the big 4 are limited to just 125s or 450s, and I don't think I'll ever get to the level where I'm using a 450 properly. RE: gear, I hear you - I'm absolutely fanatical about gear. I just have to find some physically in stock somewhere nearby so I can get the right size knee armor. I already have some TCX dirt boots, and will probably get the Shoei VFX-EVO because I love my RF1200 so much.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:15
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Strife posted:Thanks Verman, that's exactly what I'm looking for. It seems like supply is pretty hosed up right now, which limits my choices quite a bit after calling the nearby dealerships. Basically the only bike I could find is maybe a TTR230 in stock at the place I bought my Scrambler, so I'm gonna go check that out tomorrow because they're closed today. The other 3 of the big 4 are limited to just 125s or 450s, and I don't think I'll ever get to the level where I'm using a 450 properly. I bought my Z400 from a Kawasaki dealer down in Plymouth and he was telling me the supply of dirtbikes is pretty dire, he's got over 50 people looking to buy bikes and nothing to sell them. It's Pilgrim Powersports, if you're interested, they're good people. Edit: Website says they have a KLX230 there, but I have no idea how up to date they keep it. A Proper Uppercut fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Apr 12, 2021 |
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Apr 12, 2021 17:25
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A Proper Uppercut posted:I bought my Z400 from a Kawasaki dealer down in Plymouth and he was telling me the supply of dirtbikes is pretty dire, he's got over 50 people looking to buy bikes and nothing to sell them. Oh sweet. For some reason they didn't show up on Kawasaki's website. I might just not have searched east enough. But yeah, Bettencourts told me they had 2 CRF230s last month and they were gone within a day. I'll give them a call tomorrow too. I'd honestly rather EFI than carb'd anyway since I've never dealt with a carburetor in my life, so the KLX230 would be preferred.
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Apr 12, 2021 17:53
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Strife posted:Thanks Verman, that's exactly what I'm looking for. It seems like supply is pretty hosed up right now, which limits my choices quite a bit after calling the nearby dealerships. Basically the only bike I could find is maybe a TTR230 in stock at the place I bought my Scrambler, so I'm gonna go check that out tomorrow because they're closed today. The other 3 of the big 4 are limited to just 125s or 450s, and I don't think I'll ever get to the level where I'm using a 450 properly. Fwiw most (non-SX) 450's aren't particularly savage and the extra torque makes them really easy to live with, they also aren't appreciably heavier than a 250. Provided you can deal with the physical size of the bike I don't really see why you couldn't start on one, I've never ridden one and thought it was too fast for me even though I suck at dirt, although some of the early ones are pretty lively. Imo all the barry basic 230 type bikes aren't worth it, the suspension is hot garbage, I just don't see the point unless you had never ridden a bike at all.
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Apr 12, 2021 19:17
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Slavvy posted:Imo all the barry basic 230 type bikes aren't worth it, the suspension is hot garbage, I just don't see the point unless you had never ridden a bike at all. Given the street experience I'd probably be fine, but the cost is something else. Historically buying these things used is probably the way to go, but there's no secondhand market here currently. CRF250 $4,700 CRF450 $9,800 KLX230 $4,600 KX450 $9,400 DR-Z125L $3,350 (Suzuki doesn't seem to have an entry-level 250? The RM-Z250 is $7,900) RMX-450Z $9,000 TT-R230 $4,450 YZ-450F $9,400 And then there's KTM but.. I think we all know your position on orange motorcycles.
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Apr 12, 2021 19:46
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That place is a KTM dealer too just in case.
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Apr 12, 2021 20:01
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There is such a thing as a dr230, it's even road legal and can barely pull the skin off a pudding. Idk if they're available in the US though.
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Apr 12, 2021 20:05
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