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Randarkman posted:Denmark just loving sucks. Like seriously they're one of the worsts. And yet you think it's better than Syria. Curious. I don't get why the people getting sent back to Syria can't send another application for asylum, because they will now be personally persecuted for being deserters, Western agents or just plainly for having a network in Denmark and/or money.
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Apr 13, 2021 14:52
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BonHair posted:And yet you think it's better than Syria. Curious. As long as the Danish policy seems to be "zero asylum grants FYGM", I don't know what a second asylum application would do? More seriously, the problem is that Denmark somehow have deemed Damascus perfectly 100% safe for everyone to be in, so they argue that if you are from Syria you don't have a right to asylum, given that you can just hang around in Damascus no matter what. Denmark simply doesn't care that pretty much everyone is on the death list of SOMEONE involved in the ongoing civil war. The secret ingedient is racism lilljonas fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 14:56
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Tesfaye wouldn't even have been born if Denmark hadn't granted his father asylum. This guy is somehow worse, though.
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Apr 13, 2021 15:09
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BonHair posted:And yet you think it's better than Syria. Curious. How do you imagine they would get to the Danish border again? Furthermore, why do you imagine they wouldn't just get deported without due process on account of that already having happened once. At best they can hope for an expedited deportation, Denmark has since long institutionally stopped caring after all.
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Apr 13, 2021 15:10
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Baudolino posted:AP i hope is merely playing a cynical game so they can take credit for the reform when they are in goverment. Otherwise a lot people are gonna needlessy die or have their life ruined this decade just to appease cops and concerned moms in the suburbs. It's hard to see any ideological difference between most AP career politicians and concerned moms in the suburbs.
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Apr 13, 2021 15:23
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MiddleOne posted:How do you imagine they would get to the Danish border again? Furthermore, why do you imagine they wouldn't just get deported without due process on account of that already having happened once. At best they can hope for an expedited deportation, Denmark has since long institutionally stopped caring after all. I mean yeah, it sucks. But surely they should be able to request asylum before getting thrown out, on account of their situation having changed. This of course requires due process, respecting international conventions and so forth, which is more or less explicitly against current policy. Hopefully some international law experts could sue the state and have the ministry of justice need to find new loopholes for the racism.
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Apr 13, 2021 15:31
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SplitSoul posted:Tesfaye wouldn't even have been born if Denmark hadn't granted his father asylum. This guy is somehow worse, though. I don't understand how tesfaye turned out as he did. I used to follow him when he was up and coming debatter, with a background in the real job market, and somehow he turned in to Inger støjberg but clap hire clap more clap women clap prison clap guards
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Apr 13, 2021 15:33
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Tesfaye bought hard into the propaganda, and thinks he's working for the working class (who probably agree for a large part). I used to live him before he turned super racist. Quoting my own picture because it explains a lot of racism:
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Apr 13, 2021 15:45
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Tesfaye has jumped party three times, he was always a loving fraud.
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Apr 13, 2021 16:02
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vuk83 posted:[...] with a background in the real job market That’s not actually the case, it’s just self-presentation. He was extremely quickly being groomed for trade union politics. I’d wager he has less than a years worth of actual full time ‘murer’ experience, rather he worked as a union consultant (for youth recruitment) shortly after his apprenticeship. He did have good insight into technical schools and some ancillary worksite experience. To be fair, that’s how A LOT of LO union bosses also do. Including the last chairman who really liked to present himself as the old time blue collar worker, but he had basically been doing union politics as a full time job for the previous 30 years. All his stories was about the time he was driving a truck for the fishing industry though. Pretending to be a real
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Apr 13, 2021 18:48
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Didn't people make a big deal of the Swedish PM having been a welder when he didn't even finish his apprenticeship before starting a union job? Granted it's better than nothing. He at least looks like someone who spent a lot of time welding 
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Apr 13, 2021 19:00
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Going to an actual trade school is better than the usual home-with-piano -> law/polsci degree -> politics trajectory mostly everyone has. Not a lot, but still. It's one reason to like the rotation in Enhedslisten in theory, except it's often the same but with an end date and, lately, very young frontrunners.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:45
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BonHair posted:Going to an actual trade school is better than the usual home-with-piano -> law/polsci degree -> politics trajectory mostly everyone has. Not a lot, but still. It's one reason to like the rotation in Enhedslisten in theory, except it's often the same but with an end date and, lately, very young frontrunners. I've stopped voting altogether, but Jonathan Simmel seems like a good guy and he has actual job experience. Pretty sure he got sidelined by the succdem faction, though.
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Apr 13, 2021 19:52
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BonHair posted:Going to an actual trade school is better than the usual home-with-piano -> law/polsci degree -> politics trajectory mostly everyone has. Not a lot, but still. It's one reason to like the rotation in Enhedslisten in theory, except it's often the same but with an end date and, lately, very young frontrunners.
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Apr 13, 2021 20:01
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Katt posted:Didn't people make a big deal of the Swedish PM having been a welder when he didn't even finish his apprenticeship before starting a union job? It's an exaggeration. He worked a bit on a sawmill first, and then he worked two (?) years as a welder before being elected a contact person for the union. But lower level union jobs are rarely full time union positions, I've been chairman for my section and my employer got annoyed if I used more than an hour per week on union duties. He got employed as a welder in '79, and didn't become a full time staff at the central organization (IF Metall) until '95. So it's not really fair to say that he never did any knegar-jobb at all, but it is also fair to say that he didn't step out of his welding overall into the role of PM.
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Apr 13, 2021 21:02
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 always and forever
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Apr 14, 2021 10:19
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Me IRL
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Apr 14, 2021 11:02
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Same, completely unironically too. What an incredible disappointment and my expectations were so incredibly low.
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Apr 14, 2021 11:23
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From what's coming out they sound just completely horrible.
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Apr 14, 2021 11:26
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re: drug reform in norway, the proposed reform was based on a parliamentary situation which didn't exist anymore once listhaug got in and had to start lining up positions. in addition to being a very bourgeois approach to decriminalisation (including the solberg classic of moving work to the municipalities without attached funding) it was pitched in a completely stupid way with a strong focus on individual rights and a clear concession of the argument that it leads to more addiction (i.e. their arguments to the contrary were very feeble to the point of being actively detrimental to the case they were trying to make). one almost suspects H of deliberately selling out V, but that doesn't make much strategic sense. i guess that the government has just lost its mojo. tbh i suspect that most people are fine with it as it is. there seems to be a sense that there's a real issue with how we're treating addicts, but everyone seems to accept that except possibly for listhaug. hopefully the watered-down version will actually be practicable, and mean that there's an end to our ridiculous harassment of junkies and working-class kids - but i very much doubt it. the stoltenbergian consensus of appealing to the segment of aptly described concerned mums in suburbs is still hegemonic and will probably remain as such unless there's another financial crisis or something
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Apr 14, 2021 13:03
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also nobody's getting elected to a central position in a major political party straight from a working-class job, even nygaardsvoll didn't do that. the issue, as ever, isn't just representation or bona fides, it's the concentration of power and leverage to produce candidates and leaders in whatever direction you want. imo the rise of the professional adviser class is much more pernicious than the career politicians themselves
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Apr 14, 2021 13:05
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Revelation 2-13 posted:Same, completely unironically too. What an incredible disappointment and my expectations were so incredibly low. Yeah. Only thing I disagree with in that comic is having any expectations whatsoever, and they still found a way to disappoint.
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Apr 14, 2021 13:31
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Same, but every single member of parliament. They're all so much biowaste shaped like people.
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Apr 14, 2021 13:39
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Winklebottom posted:
emptyquote
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Apr 14, 2021 13:40
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it's never the people. the representatives are always going to be people who front stuff that get them elected. you cannot reform society off individual conviction, even the individual convictions of a group of people - you have to mobilise and unlock some actual interest in society to attain power, and that inevitably means that you have to compromise a lot. the reason our social democrats are all terrible now is because the mass, organised workers' movements that brought them into position are atrophied, for a whole host of reasons. the objective interests of societal groupings is always going to make itself known; capital has largely disciplined the social-democratic parties into becoming parties for capital. this is not going to change so long as the neoliberal world order persists, i.e. in our case up here so long as the EU exists in its current form
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Apr 14, 2021 14:55
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V. Illych L. posted:it's never the people. the representatives are always going to be people who front stuff that get them elected. you cannot reform society off individual conviction, even the individual convictions of a group of people - you have to mobilise and unlock some actual interest in society to attain power, and that inevitably means that you have to compromise a lot. the reason our social democrats are all terrible now is because the mass, organised workers' movements that brought them into position are atrophied, for a whole host of reasons. the objective interests of societal groupings is always going to make itself known; capital has largely disciplined the social-democratic parties into becoming parties for capital. this is not going to change so long as the neoliberal world order persists, i.e. in our case up here so long as the EU exists in its current form Some element of random draw is necessary to enforce representation and counteract the inevitable trend towards professional politicians. People always complain that random is bad because then you won't get the most experienced and talented representatives. That's possibly true, but random draw is incredibly effective at weeding parasitic egomaniacs who can and will try to push their way to the front of a cause. For some people it's not even egotism, just an inherent drive to seek out power and influence for the greater good. The only way to have representative democracy and just not just elective oligarchy is to include a random element. I know it sounds bizarre but elections are not particularly good at promoting democracy - in the sense of government by the people, for the people. Breaking the privileges of political parties when it comes to the democratic process is key to promoting more democracy and fighting oligarchy and corruption. Parties have long learned the power of gatekeeping access to nomination and support.
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Apr 14, 2021 20:12
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PederP posted:Some element of random draw is necessary to enforce representation and counteract the inevitable trend towards professional politicians. People always complain that random is bad because then you won't get the most experienced and talented representatives. That's possibly true, but random draw is incredibly effective at weeding parasitic egomaniacs who can and will try to push their way to the front of a cause. For some people it's not even egotism, just an inherent drive to seek out power and influence for the greater good. I don't see how you expect Joe Schmoe to go toe to toe with the pros; won't these randos just be ritualistically eaten alive as soon as they get in?
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Apr 14, 2021 20:26
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SplitSoul posted:Same, but every single member of parliament. They're all so much biowaste shaped like people. Disagree, some of them are bioweapons. Or sonic weapons I guess.
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Apr 14, 2021 20:32
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Oh look, Denmark made The Guardian  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/14/denmark-revokes-syrian-refugee-permits-under-new-policy
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Apr 14, 2021 20:35
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Dirk Pitt posted:Oh look, Denmark made The Guardian NYT as well. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/14/world/europe/denmark-syrian-residence-permits.html It's incredibly unfair that we only make headlines in international media because of virulent racism. We're awfully misogynist, too. 
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Apr 14, 2021 21:11
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thotsky posted:I don't see how you expect Joe Schmoe to go toe to toe with the pros; won't these randos just be ritualistically eaten alive as soon as they get in? There are ways to handle this - it doesn't have to be randos. You can have random draw from people who express interest and have participated in various activities. There are tons of capable, intelligent and insightful people in every organization. Having a mechanism to bring those to the fore, that might not have the personality traits to browbeat their way to power, is a good thing. Politics shouldn't require being a scheming and power-hungry person. Rotation principles are a proven way to avoid the worst of this - but random draw can be added to help improve representation greatly. My point is just that the classic 'we elect representatives, so it's democratic' is a sham - true representation won't happy that way. Ever.
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Apr 14, 2021 21:14
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PederP posted:There are ways to handle this - it doesn't have to be randos. PederP posted:Some element of random draw is necessary to enforce representation and counteract the inevitable trend towards professional politicians. Dude, which is it?
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Apr 14, 2021 21:58
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sortition could be part of a solution, but the way we've set up our systems thus far you'd quickly end up with de facto parties instructing them, with (unelected) professionals feeding ideas and, ultimately, the actual shot-callers would be less obviously accountable to anyone than they are now democracy is very difficult to pull off at a governmental level. the reason, other than simple size, that we're relatively good at it up here, is that formal popular organisations with genuine heft have traditionally existed and been both a path to power for "ordinary" people and a means of keeping an internal elite meaningfully accountable. this, however, is changing; LO in norway is hiring more and more technical advisers and giving them increasing amounts of power, and think-tanks have become a normal way to turn money into power without having to deal with popular organisations at all. this is deeply concerning and i honestly don't have a good solution to it.
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Apr 15, 2021 09:01
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Democracy was never a good idea, just slightly less lovely than the alternatives. What I don't get is why all the polsci/statskundskab types aren't using most of their resources developing better alternatives. It's because they are funded by people who are in power because if the current system.
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Apr 15, 2021 12:09
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Lets say each region or fylke had as much autonomy as American States. Would this bring the decisions close to the people and revitalize democracy? Or would it merely lead to confusion and and waste? I like the idea of giving the regions more freedom. But you know it will lead to stupid decisions like reducing the age of consent or removing the restrictions on building on fertile soil.
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Apr 15, 2021 12:38
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The problem is that the regions depend on each other. Like how Copenhagen more or less wants less cars, but all the surrounding kommuner are going "no, you must allow our guys to drive to work in the city". Also tax fiddling based on residence. We have some Danish people living in Sweden getting a pretty sweet deal because the taxes are different I think. This also applies to Europe as a whole, see Google being based in Ireland and not paying tax, because each country gets to make their own taxation rules.
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Apr 15, 2021 12:49
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BonHair posted:We have some Danish people living in Sweden getting a pretty sweet deal because the taxes are different I think. Not really. The main benefits for Danes living in Sweden and working in Denmark are mostly due to currency differences. As example the currency have varied between 1.2-1.5 DKK per SEK, which has a large impact on your salary. Taxes are broadly on the same level for both countries, unless you have a 3-5 year expert contract. Salaries are higher in Denmark for qualified jobs though. Cars are vastly cheaper in Sweden and housing might be cheaper than Copenhagen. On the other hand you have a commuting cost of 2000-7000 SEK per month depending if you commute or drive. Commuting is however kinda painful given the last 5 years events on the Swedish-Danish border. And unless you work in central Copenhagen, commuting is not really feasible. A lot of the pharma companies are for example located outside of Copenhagen in the suburbs.
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Apr 15, 2021 13:21
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In there interest of further dunking on Denmark I want to add that I have a Danish acquaintance with four last names, and that is too many last names.
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Apr 15, 2021 13:22
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Swedes have like fifteen first names and they just pick one to go with, like are you kidding?
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Apr 15, 2021 13:25
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Beeswax posted:In there interest of further dunking on Denmark I want to add that I have a Danish acquaintance with four last names, and that is too many last names. Incorrect. Danish law only allows one last name. The rest is a multi-word first name.
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Apr 15, 2021 13:35
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