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It's not just the Uighurs, I reported a post claiming that the holodomor is fake and there was no famine, the birth rate just fell because all the peasants got educated! No reaction, contacted the admins - nothing, requested an Official List of Something Awful Recognized Genocides (the Holocaust, the Native american genocide, Future Navalny genocide) and Fake CIA Psy-Ops (holodomor, uighurs, bosnians) and still nothing Speaking of which there is a great article in Novaya Gazeta where they interview survivors of the camps, who are now refugees in Kazakhstan: https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2020/04/16/84935-kitayskaya-peredelka One guy was actually a citizen of Kazakhstan and still got imprisoned (google translated): quote:Relatives wrote letters to the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Kazakhstan asking for help, appealed to the consulates while I was in the camp. My wife ran from one office to another with four children to save me. And she did it. Unified words and laughing at her words, the Chinese Embassy in Kazakhstan told her that I had broken the law and therefore in prison. And when they saw the children in her arms, they said why she gave birth to them, if now she could not feed them. quote:Due to the fact that we used one bucket, many suffered from genital infections. I felt unwell and became distracted by injections with an unknown solution. The attitude towards us was terrible, and for a minor offense they were severely punished. Somaen fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Apr 11, 2021 |
# ? Apr 11, 2021 12:44 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 16:23 |
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Erulisse posted:If someone is downplaying Chinese Uyghur concentration camps (they are concentration camps, china is seriously genociding a whole nation of people), they should be permaed. Russia is probably fudging Covid-19 statistics quote:The official Russian coronavirus death toll of 102,649 as of Saturday — reported on state television and to the World Health Organization — is far lower, when adjusted for the population, than that of United States and most of Western Europe.
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# ? Apr 12, 2021 03:10 |
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Erulisse posted:If someone is downplaying Chinese Uyghur concentration camps (they are concentration camps, china is seriously genociding a whole nation of people), they should be permaed. happy to report wapo is now illegal https://twitter.com/Geopol2030/status/1380992394334625795 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Apr 12, 2021 03:21 |
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So, "only" cultural genocide and ethnic cleansing?
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# ? Apr 12, 2021 03:42 |
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If you actually read the article the dude goes, well, here's what legally constitutes a genocide, and while what's happening in China ticks some of the boxes, and is technically a genocide under this definition, come on, regular people still understand genocide as literally murdering millions of people, and that's not happening, so let's not use the scary word. Funny how some posters choose to cling to semantics over what China does to minorities and appeal to an op-ed in WaPo, as if it's some extremely reputable source on the topic, while the brave people of C-SPAM are fighting an uphill battle for the previlege to call ICE facilities concentration camps in that one D&D thread.
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# ? Apr 12, 2021 04:20 |
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Truga posted:happy to report wapo is now illegal here are the sentences surrounding that one chunk carefully clipped out by some random-rear end Twitter tankie quote:To be sure, Beijing’s policies against the Uyghurs, a mostly Muslim group of Turkic ethnicity, have been horrendous. Detentions, “reeducation camps,” forced sterilizations and even some forced abortions require strong pushback. The United States has been correct to level stern public criticism against Beijing for these practices, and to impose targeted sanctions as well. Combined with repression of democracy in Hong Kong, ongoing stifling of dissent, assertive behavior in the South and East China Seas and threats against Taiwan, China under President Xi Jinping has given the world plenty of reason for worry.
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# ? Apr 12, 2021 04:36 |
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Paladinus posted:If you actually read the article the dude goes, well, here's what legally constitutes a genocide, and while what's happening in China ticks some of the boxes, and is technically a genocide under this definition, come on, regular people still understand genocide as literally murdering millions of people, and that's not happening, so let's not use the scary word. can we not shout about the perfidious posters of c-spamm1!!!!!! every time someone sees a fuckin tankie take in D&D? who gives a gently caress it's a poo poo take because it's a poo poo take, not because you saw someone post a similar take in a subforum you don't like. this inter-forum rivalry is dumb as hell and i would like to be able to read the two politics forums on this site without a bunch of dumbasses constantly sniping at each other about petty team bullshit thank you very much
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# ? Apr 12, 2021 04:38 |
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Main Paineframe posted:can we not shout about the perfidious posters of c-spamm1!!!!!! every time someone sees a fuckin tankie take in D&D? What the gently caress, it's because if we were seeing constant "just questioning the holocaust" takes in a subforum which then would occasionally spill out, people would be weirded out and wondering why is that acceptable here and on the forums in general, not wondering how we can brush up on our academic minutia of the Holocaust and the semantics of genocide to refute every bad-faith article and post. And the admins either choose to ignore it or approve, so try directing your outrage there to improve your forums reading experience ___ The Russian information field is pretty good for information on the Uighur situation by getting first hand accounts from Kazakhstan: https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2020/09/20/87175-vybratsya-iz-sintszyanya quote:Any movement had to ask permission in Chinese. “If we moved without permission, we were told that a camera had spotted us and were taken out of the row to another room. There is a chair in it, to which they were handcuffed. The handcuffs shrink as you move, ”the woman recalls. https://lenta.ru/articles/2020/10/08/chinausa/ quote:After the clashes in 2009 in Beijing, apparently, they were really scared. The authorities believed that Islam, along with its own language and traditions, allows the Uyghurs to maintain an identity that is dangerous to the state. They decided to work with this problem using an organized suppression system.
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# ? Apr 12, 2021 07:39 |
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Main Paineframe posted:can we not shout about the perfidious posters of c-spamm1!!!!!! every time someone sees a fuckin tankie take in D&D? Sorry about that. It wasn't meant as a diss on C-SPAM posters in any way, I don't know where that person posts.
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# ? Apr 12, 2021 11:47 |
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"Probably". Several high-profile doctors "fell out of window" after telling the world that "reported pneumonia deaths are covid deaths and the govnmnt is rigging poo poo" back in april '20 Then there is like, common sense. Moscow metro usage stats - 8m daily. Covid cases 2 weeks after idiot sobyanin made his "state of heightened alert" orders which led to massive queues in metro only rose from 2k to 8k. Yeah sure bud. I mean Russian politicians are lying. Not sometimes, not from time to time. ALWAYS. And the stats are always rigged to show what politicians need to say. It has been that way since late perestroyka, it is same now, just worse and every-loving-where.
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# ? Apr 12, 2021 21:51 |
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If anything I'm surprised total excess deaths haven't been fudged either. Seems like someone dropped the ball there.
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# ? Apr 13, 2021 07:29 |
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mobby_6kl posted:If anything I'm surprised total excess deaths haven't been fudged either. Seems like someone dropped the ball there. Unless you start making posting obituaries illegal, that'd be kind of hard to do. Plus you wouldn't want to gently caress with your own death counts because that'd lead to bookkeeping issues later. Besides, when you control the media and can push people out of windows, you don't need to.
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# ? Apr 13, 2021 08:01 |
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mobby_6kl posted:If anything I'm surprised total excess deaths haven't been fudged either. Seems like someone dropped the ball there. Belarusian statistician just straight up stopped releasing overall mortality rates. The latest update they've provided is that the population went down 60k, while previous several years it was going down only about 20k a year. No explanation is given so far. Russian statisticians, on the other hand, say that Covid deaths don't include people who had Corona, got better, but then died because their brush with Corona exacerbated some other conditions, which caused their death. It's not entirely honest either, to say the least, but they're are at least trying to explain things. In Belarus they decided that people don't deserve any explanation.
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# ? Apr 13, 2021 09:22 |
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steinrokkan posted:"Yeah, yeah, genocide , shmenocide, it may be happening or it may not, whatever, now to the real poo poo - have you guys seen this video that proves daddy Putin is the only thing standing in the way of Nazis gaining power in Russia?" Isn't that like how most post-soviet dictators like Putin, Luka etc stay in power? All sane, realistic opposition is killed off or exiled, while a handful of impotent, incompetent or outright insane parties remain as managed opposition, making sure that the only alternative to the Eternal President is complete chaos.
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# ? Apr 14, 2021 09:42 |
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There's also a fear of change for a lot of people that went through dissolution of USSR. "Fuckawful, but stable" as we say in second world.
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# ? Apr 14, 2021 10:46 |
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alex314 posted:There's also a fear of change for a lot of people that went through dissolution of USSR. "Fuckawful, but stable" as we say in second world. To be fair to them, the early 90s were absolutely brutal and I sort of understand people in Ukraine and Belarus looked at Poland and said "gently caress that noise". Ultimately Poland's ahead, but back then, it wasn't that clear cut how thing's will pan out, and then it was kinda too late to get on that bandwagon. What a clusterfuck.
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# ? Apr 14, 2021 13:43 |
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Mr. Sunshine posted:Isn't that like how most post-soviet dictators like Putin, Luka etc stay in power? All sane, realistic opposition is killed off or exiled, while a handful of impotent, incompetent or outright insane parties remain as managed opposition, making sure that the only alternative to the Eternal President is complete chaos. Exactly. And what makes this so drat scary to outsiders is that this necessarily includes not having any sort of realistic succesion plans. Like, I might not like Putin very much, but I must grant that Putin is not going to gently caress the world tomorrow. He's sane enough that he understands that he's living in the world with the rest of us and competent enough not to stray too close to the edge. However, if tomorrow Putin gets a stroke and dies, what now? He's getting to the age where that is an entirely realistic concern. All the stooges in his party are basically the kind of people he trusts not to come for him, which also means they are not exactly cut out to replace him.
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# ? Apr 14, 2021 17:34 |
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That's the downsides of having a monarchy in all but name. He could realistically have some succession plan in the work, maybe some heir is being secretly groomed in the background. I definitely wouldn't look forward to infighting after Putin kicks the bucket. Imagine how places like Chechnya or Dagestan would look like. And whoever wins might start with trying to best Putin's annexation score.
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# ? Apr 14, 2021 17:46 |
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Ahemm. On 9/11 all the ukrainians in New York didn't go to work. Makes you think
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# ? Apr 14, 2021 19:17 |
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Ahemm. On 9/11 all the ukrainians in New York didn't go to work. Makes you think In fact I saw them celebrating in New Jersey!
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# ? Apr 14, 2021 19:45 |
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This entire Daily Beast article is JUST TDS posted:“War [with the U.S.] is inevitable,” declared Margarita Simonyan, editor in chief of the state-funded Russian media outlets RT and Sputnik, who believes the conflict will break out when, not if, Vladimir Putin moves to seize more territory from Ukraine. what TDS posted:The top RT editor asserted that “[Russia] needs to be ready for this war, which is unavoidable, and of course it will start in Ukraine,” arguing that the Kremlin is “invincible where conventional war is concerned, but forget about conventional war... it will be a war of infrastructures, and here we have many vulnerabilities.” the TDS posted:She wholeheartedly endorsed a suggestion from Vladimir Zhirinovsky, the ultranationalist leader of Russia’s Liberal Democratic Party, who argued that all of Russia’s opposition must be eliminated by May 1, 2021. christ TDS posted:Simonyan argued that once Russia minimizes its vulnerabilities and renders Putin’s opposition powerless—which she argued could happen in a matter of months—the Kremlin will finally be ready to annex Ukraine’s eastern region.
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 15:44 |
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Wouldn't moving their borders westwards make them closer to US influence? It will be interesting to see what sort of new sanctions and measures the US and EU will do next. I wonder if this recent escalation in words and supposed military equipment has anything to do with the recently discussed water shortage in Crimea? The situation in Ukraine has simmered away for a while and now this sort of invasion chat is now entering the Russian political conversation.
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 17:14 |
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I have nothing to back this up, but I do believe Putin is in a position to push into Ukraine, all the way to the Dniepr, without anyone stopping him effectively, which is not to say he’ll be unopposed. I also think there’s no way in hell the Russian economy can sustain an occupation like that. I realize this is Clancy chat.
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 17:52 |
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Mokotow posted:I have nothing to back this up, but I do believe Putin is in a position to push into Ukraine, all the way to the Dniepr, without anyone stopping him effectively, which is not to say he’ll be unopposed. I also think there’s no way in hell the Russian economy can sustain an occupation like that. I realize this is Clancy chat. Russia couldn't get passed donbass region and can't get water to crimea. Their whole method of control is to sub contract out the occupation to feudal fascists who already live in the country unabated by the government of ukraine. Unopposed is unlikely as this isn't 2014 anymore. It's been 7 years since russia occupied crimea and ukraine has had a lot of time to prepare for the possible conflict. Crimea was not a shooting war really. It was a silk glove occupation. Marching on the dnieper is definitely doing to be a bloody conflict that will not be a silk glove in any way shape or form
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 18:14 |
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I don’t think there is any reason whatsoever to believe that the passage of time somehow favors Ukrainians more than it does Russians. Overemphasizing the value of meaningless military toys is political observer's equivalent of stimming.
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 18:34 |
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Necronormiecon posted:I don’t think there is any reason whatsoever to believe that the passage of time somehow favors Ukrainians more than it does Russians. Overemphasizing the value of meaningless military toys is political observer's equivalent of stimming. Seeing as Ukraine did not deploy their regular forces in defense of Donbass or Crimea your point becomes invalid. The longer the defending side has to plan their defense the more beneficial it is. Defense in depth as well as improved organizational structure is like a fine wine it gets better with age. The response to a future invasion is much different post fact. Ukrainian security forces are well aware of the failings of the last war. Russia is has and continues to be strangulated by the sanctions that have been placed upon it, you crane on the other hand has the benefit of foreign aid being readily available. The point of the defense of Ukraine is not to win the war but to elongate the conflict so that there's time to draw upon foreign aid and potentially bankrupt or embarrass russia. Having Russian boys sent home in coffins on a weekly basis is not going to resonate well amongst the Russian people who are fast becoming disenfranchised with Vladimir Putin.
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 18:47 |
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How are the nationalists in Poland, Hungary etc. responding to these Russian moves? Are they torn between sympathy for a fellow right-wing regime and historic fears of Russian imperialism, or are they breaking one way or another?
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 19:25 |
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Seeing as Ukraine did not deploy their regular forces in defense of Donbass or Crimea your point becomes invalid. The longer the defending side has to plan their defense the more beneficial it is. Defense in depth as well as improved organizational structure is like a fine wine it gets better with age. The response to a future invasion is much different post fact. Ukrainian security forces are well aware of the failings of the last war. Well one issue is that Ukraine also has to do offense if it ever wants to clean up the East, and the longer that takes, the more everything gets entrenched into the Transnistria-like disaster zone. Mounting some decent defense might be possible if russia keeps playing the "it's totally not us" game again but if they go all in, it would be extremely costly and unlikely to succeed. They spend a lot of money on the military and toys and get to play with them in Syria and what not for practice. Ukraine... IIRC sent a few guys to Iraq 15 years ago?
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 19:59 |
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mobby_6kl posted:Ukraine... IIRC sent a few guys to Iraq 15 years ago? I mean...did you forget the fighting Ukraine has been doing since 2014?
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 20:01 |
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Grammarchist posted:How are the nationalists in Poland, Hungary etc. responding to these Russian moves? Are they torn between sympathy for a fellow right-wing regime and historic fears of Russian imperialism, or are they breaking one way or another? Not the most nationalist or involved country in the region, but in the Czech Republic all the Russian saber rattling has so far barely registered on the radar. Which makes me think everybody knows i's just less than credible bluffing, since even our very, very anti-Russian and very outspoken generals have been apparently quiet this time.
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 20:06 |
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Necronormiecon posted:This entire Daily Beast article is JUST "By moving our borders we eliminate American influence, so lets move our borders all the way to the Channel"
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 20:07 |
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Grammarchist posted:How are the nationalists in Poland, Hungary etc. responding to these Russian moves? Are they torn between sympathy for a fellow right-wing regime and historic fears of Russian imperialism, or are they breaking one way or another? It’s a Weimar republic type mess, at least in Poland. There’s so many nationalist and right wing party flavors, you’ll often find contradictory views within one organization. PiS itself is split between anti-Ukrainian, anti-Belarusian and anti-Russian sentiments. Logically they should be all for Zelensky, for example, but they’d rather pressure Ukraine over WWII era Banderist stuff and just ignore Donbass and Crimea. Kacynski holds Putin responsible for the death of his brother, yet his a-ok with Salvini and Orban - both openly pro Kremlin politicians. That’s just the tip of the iceberg, and Russian agents of influence are all over this poo poo.
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 20:10 |
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mobby_6kl posted:Well one issue is that Ukraine also has to do offense if it ever wants to clean up the East, and the longer that takes, the more everything gets entrenched into the Transnistria-like disaster zone. You forgot Poland~
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 20:10 |
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:You forgot Poland~ For once in our sordid history we actually are not in the East/West buffer zone. Sucks for Belarus and Ukraine.
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 20:13 |
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Budzilla posted:Wouldn't moving their borders westwards make them closer to US influence? Its a good and 'funny' question I absolutely loving love to ask people who claim that more territories mean NATO will be farther away from 'us'. Like, from moscow, is that all you're scared about? Move to loving yakutiya you idiot. But drat all this pre-elections propaganda is worse and more intense than previous one. Scary.
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 22:46 |
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The whole debacle barely shows up in the news. Today in the news was a mention about Biden adding more sanctions and NATO ordering Russia to dial down their rhetoric. That is all, just lip service. It doesn't help we've been on a huge anti-Ukrainian wave for some time now, even if they are a big part of our lowest labour force and are treated like poor cousins who can't speak
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 23:07 |
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If nothing else, this has been a fantastic distraction from Navalny's hunger strike.
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 23:30 |
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My dad thinks Russia's going to invade Ukraine on the basis of 15k troops waving invasion stripes. Is this provocation or an occupation of the Donbass?
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# ? Apr 15, 2021 23:53 |
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If we do nothing about Russia antagonizing efforts we will face a reckoning on our power. And fascism will descend upon Europe as the democratic governments armies are trash and can't stand up to a Frei Korps type element at this point. I mean like an above poster said, russia's border "vacation" is the size of the british loving army.
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# ? Apr 16, 2021 03:00 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 16:23 |
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Grouchio posted:My dad thinks Russia's going to invade Ukraine on the basis of 15k troops waving invasion stripes. Is this provocation or an occupation of the Donbass? Russian's aren't in donbass. donbass is a trashbox region dotted with feudal soviets and religious nuts with barely a functioning police force let alone occupation force. Its a shitshow and a sham that solely is propped up by Russia and by propped i mean arms and russian profiteers crossing the border to trade poo poo. https://twitter.com/i/status/1382283545159331844 https://twitter.com/i/status/1382874177787547649 https://twitter.com/i/status/1382853082359431182 https://twitter.com/i/status/1382744174160719877 https://twitter.com/i/status/1382733447739936768 All of these are of a pro russian dude. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Apr 16, 2021 |
# ? Apr 16, 2021 03:16 |