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mila kunis posted:I've stopped watching because all the bars are shut and tv subscriptions are a ripoff i don't want to pay more for on top of already existing subscriptions and non-dodgy streams that wont install malware or bitcoin miners are hard to find. I catch motd or other highlights now and then. Not sure my experience is that unique either, they've really killed the desire/ability of lots of people to watch Finding free high quality streams is incredibly easy op
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Apr 20, 2021 17:35
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If their intention is for 15 permanent clubs, I don't understand why the 12 thought it was a good idea to announce. Why didn't they sew up the remaining 3 before making the announcement? That's either inept or they are negotiating on a grand scale and I can't figure out which.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:36
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the popes toes posted:If their intention is for 15 permanent clubs, I don't understand why the 12 thought it was a good idea to announce. Why didn't they sew up the remaining 3 before making the announcement? I think it was leaked. They probably didn't intend to announce it until end of season.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:36
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The DPRK posted:Please excuse my naive questions, but: The gods of capitalism demand growth in perpetuity
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Apr 20, 2021 17:38
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These clubs have MASSIVE followings outside of England that aren't fully capitalized upon because the matches are at weird times and the big clubs "don't play other famous clubs enough". If I'm in debt (or even if I'm not and have a large following outside of England) why not get the free money from those fans from a new TV deal catered to US and China? While yes this accelerates the timeline of "football is ruined!", I'm not sure how exactly getting these plans scrapped helps. SL is cancelled and then everyone is happy that football is saved? The teams in the Super League already have a payroll 10x higher than most of the other teams they play in their leagues. And the difference has been growing over the last 20 years. Super League will just get this up to a 20x difference in payroll done in 2021 instead of waiting until 2030. People that think that Crystal Palace or whatever will be able to compete with these teams in 2030 if no changes happen are deluding themselves. Rad Russian fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Apr 20, 2021 |
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Apr 20, 2021 17:38
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the popes toes posted:If their intention is for 15 permanent clubs, I don't understand why the 12 thought it was a good idea to announce. Why didn't they sew up the remaining 3 before making the announcement? The NYT scooped the story, forcing them to announce at midnight on sunday.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:39
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Pook Good Mook posted:Really funny moment on a Liverpool fan podcast/channel yesterday was a viewer question asking what's stopping Liverpool or any team from just relocating to somewhere else. The 3 "hosts" all stopped, mouths open, and they were all like, well poo poo, nothing I guess. You would think the Wimbledon/MK Dons fiasco would have alerted them to this possibility. Coincidentally really love the fact the fans of Wimbledon set up a new club and now competing in the same league as The Cows™
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Apr 20, 2021 17:39
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Rad Russian posted:These clubs have MASSIVE followings outside of England that aren't fully capitalized upon because the matches are at weird times and the big clubs "don't play each other enough". If I'm in debt (or even if I'm not and have a large following outside of England) why not get the free money from those fans from a new TV deal catered to US and China? americans.txt
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Apr 20, 2021 17:40
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Rad Russian posted:I'm not sure how exactly getting these plans scrapped helps. SL is cancelled and then everyone is happy that football is saved? Football is temporairly saved while we build guillotines
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Apr 20, 2021 17:41
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Grimson posted:The NYT scooped the story, forcing them to announce at midnight on sunday. Ah, thanks. So it was "Those loving Germans ratted us out, those bastards!" Or the French. Or the Dutch. Good on them.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:41
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Pook Good Mook posted:Really funny moment on a Liverpool fan podcast/channel yesterday was a viewer question asking what's stopping Liverpool or any team from just relocating to somewhere else. The 3 "hosts" all stopped, mouths open, and they were all like, well poo poo, nothing I guess. We are the Abu Dhabi Reds, This Means More.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:42
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https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/1384520633078493185?s=20
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Apr 20, 2021 17:42
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Ahahahahaha this is almost petty and it rules
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Apr 20, 2021 17:43
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the popes toes posted:Ah, thanks. So it was "Those loving Germans ratted us out, those bastards!" Or the French. Or the Dutch. Good on them. rare german-french collaboration someone doesn't get executed for.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:43
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Providing the greedy 12 eat a 2 year ban for their shenanigans.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:44
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The DPRK posted:Please excuse my naive questions, but: Debt comes in different forms. In Man Utd's case most of their debt was created by their owners in order to buy the club in the first place. They don't try to pay it off because the club can afford to pay the annual interest from its income and still pay shareholders dividends. For some other club's it's ownership debt - money their owners have lent the business (usually) interest free in order to cover costs, that will theoretically come back to them one day (like Mike Ashley at Newcastle who can't sell the club because he needs £150m or something paid back as part of the deal, or Vincent Tan at Cardiff who keeps having to convert debt to equity because he knows he's never getting paid back). It's difficult for clubs to live within their means because it's competitive sport. Every single club lives with the idea that spending that little bit more gives them that extra advantage, or helps them not fall behind/down. With the prizes available at the top so high, clubs feel that spending £10m they don't have is a worthwhile risk if it means they might gain £100m a season later on. There's also the confidence that if you gently caress it up you can sell a player or two to cover the losses. Clubs will run up debts for multiple seasons believing that James Maddison or Jack Grealish will pay for it if they don't get promoted. Financial Fair Play rules exist to try to discourage this behaviour, but they don't work. The typical income for a Championship team without significant TV money is around £20-25m a season. Leicester's turnover in 18/19 was £178m, a figure that had been increasing 20% a year since promotion in 2014. Their commercial revenue alone dwarfs the total income of most Championship sides not receiving parachute payments. Why wouldn't you go into debt chasing that much money, or trying to hold on to it? The 14 clubs act like the last 5-10 years of skyrocketing TV income has always existed and is essential to keep English football going. They don't want to give up their golden ticket so instead plead imminent poverty.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:45
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Rosenborg will cement their role as kings of Europe
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Apr 20, 2021 17:45
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lmao
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Apr 20, 2021 17:46
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Sandwolf posted:Ahahahahaha this is almost petty and it rules Everyone knew something like this would happen though. I still honestly think that the SL was a ploy for bargaining with UEFA and the first hope was to stay in the current system. I honestly don't know if they'd have gone public without the NYT breaking the story.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:46
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The DPRK posted:Please excuse my naive questions, but: - there's an arms race with sides competing for a huge financial windfall whether that is big CL TV money and new markets penetration or entry into the premier League etc. The prize is massive but the costs are escalating rapidly and missing out can lead to disaster, every club is Leeds pre-collapse now. This isn't helped by some of the clubs having essentially infinite money. Attempts to curb this have failed miserably and UEFA are completely useless. Lots of clubs have been investing in infrastructure too recently. Some clubs are treated like any other company where having huge piles of debt is just part of capitalism. Then covid happened as well and since you need to spend a lot of money to stand still it hasn't blunted it much. - the money from other sources dwarfs matchday revenue for everyone now, even with upgraded stadiums. Even if you could survive on matchday revenue why would you? - it would be fine if it were actually managed properly. The game has needed wage/transfer caps and more equity for a long time now. The issues with debt, finance, exorbitant wealth and large corporations crushing the little guy are just reflective of the same problems within wider society tbh. It's a bit depressing how much more attention football has gotten.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:48
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CyberPingu posted:Most clubs money comes from TV rights and sponsorships. Pook Good Mook posted:Really funny moment on a Liverpool fan podcast/channel yesterday was a viewer question asking what's stopping Liverpool or any team from just relocating to somewhere else. The 3 "hosts" all stopped, mouths open, and they were all like, well poo poo, nothing I guess. The "American model" with all it's ghoulish cash grabs is coming. I wonder how long it'll take before the ECJ hands down the football version of Federal Baseball Club v. National League
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Apr 20, 2021 17:50
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Rad Russian posted:These clubs have MASSIVE followings outside of England that aren't fully capitalized upon because the matches are at weird times and the big clubs "don't play other famous clubs enough". If I'm in debt (or even if I'm not and have a large following outside of England) why not get the free money from those fans from a new TV deal catered to US and China? Spending money is only part of the equation for success, though. Playing and coaching ability plays a huge part, and the best players can still lose to Palace on a wet Wednesday night. If all these clubs had to do was vastly outspend the competition they wouldn't need a closed shop super league, they're already doing it. There isn't a calibre of player out there that these clubs don't already have a functional monopoly on, that they would be able to reach if only they had another hundred million in the bank.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:51
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Pook Good Mook posted:Everyone knew something like this would happen though. I still honestly think that the SL was a ploy for bargaining with UEFA and the first hope was to stay in the current system. I honestly don't know if they'd have gone public without the NYT breaking the story. i think they always intended for uefa to come to the table. the plan as framed didn't make sense - they were going to put 16 more games on top of their already packed schedule? i suppose we'll see what the details are but it might just be mission accomplished for the 12 big clubs.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:51
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Blank McKinsey .ppt slide titled "Current advantages of staying in Merseyside market"
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Apr 20, 2021 17:52
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bawfuls posted:Sounds like the good taxpayers of Liverpool are gonna have to pony up to build the team a new stadium, lest they risk... I overheard a British radio show yesterday (talkSport?) where a guest was asked about the Kop and all the fan cutouts. It was clear the guest hadn't thought about it and got unbelievably mad and started yelling that Liverpool needs to remove all the cutouts before their next game.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:53
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peanut- posted:Err the crowd control is diabolically bad though. It genuinely does often take longer to get into Stratford with its 5000 lines than it took to get onto the single platform district line at Upton Park. And when you do get into the station it’s half empty and trains are coming through and leaving a third full. Nah, you're just wrong. Like provably wrong. It takes 25 minutes to get 60,000 people either onto a train or otherwise off the Olympic Park, it took *at least* an hour to clear the queue at Upton Park and that was with half the amount of people. If I leave bang on the final whistle I'm normally home in 35 minutes, and it used to take me longer than that to even get onto the District Line which was then another half hour to get home (although that's because I can jump on the DLR at Pudding Mill or just walk down to Bow Road and jump on the D8 to get home). They throttle the crowd onto the Central Line because of the bottleneck at Mile End with all those people wanting to get back to Upminster - they all want a chance of getting a seat on the District Line so none of them walk/Jubilee Line/DLR to West Ham and change there, meaning the designed-for-the-crowds West Ham is deserted while the tiny little island platform at Mile End is packed worst than rush hour. Presumably this means that eastbound trains end up pretty empty because there's no way of just stopping people getting onto westbound stations at Stratford.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:56
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While it was our intention to bring greater excitement to supporters who love the beautiful game as much as we, and to bring greater stability and financial health to the leagues, we welcome this news and look forward to discussing how these new developments may insure the longevity of the game.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:57
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quote:The Spanish banker who created the controversial new European Super League has promised the new JP Morgan-backed competition will pump €400m (£350m) into the national leagues that the elite clubs plan to leave behind.
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Apr 20, 2021 17:57
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dex_sda posted:They might have expected the Tories to back them. Instead the English clubs are being threatened with being buttfucked by the actual executive branch of the government. The fact they didn't even bother buying the tories shows how poorly thought out this was, politicians are so cheap when you're talking about the amount of money at stake.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:00
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i just got into this dumb poo poo this year and i love that immediately im hit with football brexit what a great year to be figuring out what teams to support
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Apr 20, 2021 18:00
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Thanks for the insight folks. The very fact that Championship clubs can keep going with hardly any TV coverage gives me heart, although I gather from the last few days that it's a different story for lower leagues. My naive hope, if the break away does go ahead, is that it might rally those left behind to act in solidarity with one another and protect the structure right the way down the pyramid. I used to go and watch Leicester when they were in League 1, it's still a good day out and a fantastic atmosphere. Now for my whimsical hot take 😂 I long for the days of having players play for the club because they want to play for that club, and not because it's where they can command the highest wage. Maybe taking the money out of football would be a good thing, and would reinvigorate passion among the players to play for their local team. No I will not accept any criticism of this take, thank you very much.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:00
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Recent wages to turnover ratios for the poor little PL clubs: In the Championship it starts at 100% and rises.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:02
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sassassin posted:Spending money is only part of the equation for success, though. Playing and coaching ability plays a huge part, and the best players can still lose to Palace on a wet Wednesday night. If all these clubs had to do was vastly outspend the competition they wouldn't need a closed shop super league, they're already doing it. There isn't a calibre of player out there that these clubs don't already have a functional monopoly on, that they would be able to reach if only they had another hundred million in the bank. Yes, the money problem in football is really two money problems, depending on how rich you are to start with. The first money problem is if you're a team that isn't a "big name" but are chasing the money that comes from performing at a historically big name level (or a Championship club trying to perform at a PL level, and so on down the tiers). You spend money in the hope that this investment turns into more money in future. It's a tough job, but not impossible. The second money problem is if you're one of the big name clubs already making a shitload of money. Congratulations! You're probably even profitable! Or at least pay a decent dividend to shareholders, which is what makes you valuable. In this position, your worry is if you gently caress up on the pitch too much, some of those revenue streams take a bit of a hit and all of a sudden your profit isn't going up year on year any more, and your asset value goes down. So you come up with the bright idea to never have to worry about loving up on the pitch any more, and here we are. The Super League!
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Apr 20, 2021 18:02
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sassassin posted:Recent wages to turnover ratios for the poor little PL clubs:
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Apr 20, 2021 18:07
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Crazy Ted posted:Oh look more shitheads connected to Real Madrid. Solely out of national pride, I would like to contend that the fair-play minded American owners were duped by the greedy and duplicitous Spaniards. I don't think that will work, however.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:08
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Pook Good Mook posted:Everyone knew something like this would happen though. I still honestly think that the SL was a ploy for bargaining with UEFA and the first hope was to stay in the current system. I honestly don't know if they'd have gone public without the NYT breaking the story. I agree with this as well. Never forget that UEFA are still the money grubbing cunts they’ve always been.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:18
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I saw one analysis that said the proposed Super League model basically takes American sports and makes them even more inequitable because yes, American sports are a closed shop money printer, and yes there's huge disparity between the richest and poorest teams, but also they've at least tried to level the playing field a little bit through things like the draft system prioritizing the worst teams and leaguewide salary caps meaning the richest teams have a little less ability to just buy their way to the top. As a result, good teams come and go, sometimes rich and successful teams turn to poo poo despite having the highest revenue, and even bad teams can eventually win titles. The Super League proposal takes the closed shop money printer and gets rid of the token concessions to fairness, which makes it even more transparently a huge cash grab than the usual American sports structures. It also doesn't help that all the people behind it keep giving media interviews where they say "yes, actually the point of this is for us to make more money than we currently make."
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Apr 20, 2021 18:19
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Casual Encountess posted:i just got into this dumb poo poo this year and i love that immediately im hit with football brexit the answer is West Ham since they've caused all of this by operating above their station (in places 1-6 in the league)
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Apr 20, 2021 18:23
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BUG JUG posted:the answer is West Ham since they've caused all of this by operating above their station (in places 1-6 in the league) Or Leicester, for 2016.
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Apr 20, 2021 18:25
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Vando posted:Given there's only 3 promotion spots it's got to happen to someone Only 2 get promoted out of the national league. The logjam to escape would be amazing. Would love to see man u having to play ebbsfleet away 3 seasons in a row. Casual Encountess posted:i just got into this dumb poo poo this year and i love that immediately im hit with football brexit Let me tell you about the blessed northeast...
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