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If that cop's training prepared him for this specific situation where dumping an entire magazine into someone six seconds after opening his car door can be justified as appropriate, and it only worked because he was drilled relentlessly on how he must empty his gun on the basis of a split-second decision in order to stop a murder, how dangerous is it to send him into any other situation? If there's a feral rottweiler in the alley behind my house and it happens to tear someone's throat out while they're in the process of murdering someone else, I'm still not going to feel safe taking my garbage out or leaving for work.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:22
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Vorik posted:Yeah. She was in foster care and the people who were taking care of her made the situation worse. You can actually see in the video her foster father kicking the downed girl who Makiah first charged at. jesus. stuff like that makes me curious who started what. because apperently Makiah was one of the folks who called the cops.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:24
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There's a lot of ways a fight with a knife involved might end up with someone hurt or dead and that sucks but running into the situation and mag dumping into a child guarantees it. It's a miracle he didn't kill anyone else. 99% of the time when kids, especially non white kids, fight it's just posturing anyway and anyone with sense knows this.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:28
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:It was a 5-4 decision written by Scalia, which I'm sure will surprise you: Holy gently caress What is the actual point of the police then if they aren't there to protect people from crimes or violence? You are better off yelling to random strangers for help. Sweet! Makes the whole disarming them case a lot easier. Also, having seen the footage now, that girl was very much in lethal positioning with the knife. It's a pretty murky case at best, although I still argue "gun first" was not the only option. TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Apr 21, 2021 |
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Apr 21, 2021 17:37
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SchnorkIes posted:There's a lot of ways a fight with a knife involved might end up with someone hurt or dead and that sucks but running into the situation and mag dumping into a child guarantees it. It's a miracle he didn't kill anyone else. 99% of the time when kids, especially non white kids, fight it's just posturing anyway and anyone with sense knows this. Meanwhile anyone with eyes sees a knife being express mailed to the girl in pink's organs
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Apr 21, 2021 17:40
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I love it when conservatives make the claim that the OD is what killed Floyd and not the knee on his neck. Even if the OD is what killed him, Chauvin would still be guilty of murder. Chauvin chose to kneel on Floyd's neck until he was dead, instead of administer a dose of Narcan.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:41
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TulliusCicero posted:Holy gently caress Protection of property and social control.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:41
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TulliusCicero posted:Holy gently caress Honestly, I just think of this whenever people respond to defunding the police with "Who will be there to protect you!?" How often do police actually protect people instead of just clean up after-the-fact? I can think of a few active shooter situations where adding the police helped save people and then theres things like the capitol riot, but those seem like a drops in the bucket.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:42
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HonorableTB posted:Meanwhile anyone with eyes sees a knife being express mailed to the girl in pink's organs That's irrelevant. They bring in active white shooters who were caught in the act unharmed like weekly. The cop would've de-escalated in a white area successfully. Someone getting murdered in a fight is less bad anyway than a cop killing.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:46
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I think that girl was definitely raising a deadly weapon and was imminently going to inflict potentially lethal trauma on another person, and this is what is being reacted to I also believe that if this was happening in another country where police are in any way decently trained, better outcomes would have been much more possible. How much better? I don't know. but maybe at least ones where i wouldn't be saying "pretty much the only thing i'm happy about is that the potential stabbing victim was miraculously unharmed by the proxy endangerment of standing next to someone that an american cop started utterly unloading into"
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Apr 21, 2021 17:49
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SchnorkIes posted:That's irrelevant. They bring in active white shooters who were caught in the act unharmed like weekly. The cop would've de-escalated in a white area successfully. Someone getting murdered in a fight is less bad anyway than a cop killing. If she had just been holding the knife or dropped the knife and been shot anyway I’d agree with you (and honestly I assumed that’s what happened initially). She was actively thrusting it at the body of another person. I hate all this and it obviously needs more investigation as to what the gently caress happened, but him shooting someone who was actively stabbing someone else might be one of the few instances where deadly force is justified. Again, there is no benefit of the doubt here. The video is pretty clear it was an active attempt at murder happening.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:49
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I think the problem is and remains that police in this country IMMEDIATELY jump to lethal force because their training makes them that way. Look at the 13 year old. Kid threw whatever weapon he had to the ground and put his hands up slowly turning around, still got shot. The cop could have easily killed both of them at that close range. It's the training and mindset that are the problem.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:51
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LeeMajors posted:Again, there is no benefit of the doubt here. The video is pretty clear it was an active attempt at murder happening. Not just an active murder attempt but she was less than a second away from the knife actually going in. It's hard to tell who has actually watched the video (I don't blame people who don't want to watch it) because at least a few people seem to think she was just brandishing instead of literally inches away from injuring or killing the victim. There was maybe a 2 second window where the officer had an opportunity to tackle her (setting aside the discussion as to whether we should expect cops to tackle people with knives). ryde fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Apr 21, 2021 |
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Apr 21, 2021 17:52
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SchnorkIes posted:Someone getting murdered in a fight is less bad anyway than a cop killing. I'm sorry? Can you please take another crack at this sentence, because I don't think this is what you meant to say.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:53
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ryde posted:Not just an active murder attempt but she was less than a second away from the knife actually going in. It's hard to tell who has actually watched the video (I don't blame people who don't want to watch it) because at least a few people seem to think she was just brandishing instead of literally inches away from injuring or killing the victim. Yeah. In that way it is very different than the 13yo who was shot the other day, or Tamir Rice or the guy who was shot holding a BB gun no threateningly in a Walmart, et cetera ad nauseam.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:54
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Baronash posted:I'm sorry? Can you please take another crack at this sentence, because I don't think this is what you meant to say. It would've been a better outcome if he had let the girl with the knife do what she was doing to do and then arrested her, even if there was a loss of innocent life. The damage to communities from the State parachuting in and performing street executions is far greater than that from literally anything else.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:56
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LeeMajors posted:Yeah. In that way it is very different than the 13yo who was shot the other day, or Tamir Rice or the guy who was shot holding a BB gun no threateningly in a Walmart, et cetera ad nauseam. Adam Toledo is I think what you're referring to, and yeah that's an example that I'd consider unequivocally police murder. IIRC he had a gun but dropped it and raised his hands before the police just loving murdered him. Hopefully they rot in jail. Don't remember anything about Tamir Rice but I'm going to guess its also police just straight up murdering people because thats a reasonable default position to take these days.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:57
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Charlz Guybon posted:What was their justification for that one? Basically, it's not automatically unconstitutional for a government agency to fail to intervene to protect someone from non-governmental action. It may be illegal other under laws, but it's not inherently a violation of constitutional rights unless certain other conditions are met. State or federal laws have the option of establishing such a requirement themselves, but often do not - in fact, many states specifically reject such a requirement in their laws. For example, California law explicitly states that no public entity or employee can be held liable for failure to provide adequate police protection: quote:Neither a public entity nor a public employee is liable for failure to establish a police department or otherwise to provide police protection service or, if police protection service is provided, for failure to provide sufficient police protection service.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:57
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Apparently it took an hour between the police call and the police arriving and the person who called is the dead child and and they were calling because people were getting frisky with knives, but anyone who knows knife fighting can tell you they take about an hour. I recommend you try it with a sharpie. It's just facts. Also we should trust the limited amount of info we have from the white supremacist organization that just murdered a black child and declare the the Fabled Good Kill rather than waiting and seeing more information as it comes out. Trusting Chicago PD on Jussie Smollett really paid off.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:58
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TulliusCicero posted:Holy gently caress The supreme court case was about a woman whose ex-husband kidnapped her kids, called her, and said he was going to kill the kids unless she called the police to stop him. When she called the police and asked them to go stop him from killing the kids, they said they'd look into it and didn't send anybody. He killed the kids, drove to the police station, threw their bodies out in front of the main doors, and started yelling through the glass for them to kill him, which they did. As has been posted above, the police exist to protect property and preserve the present social order. They do not help people and will cite the above case if anyone tries to compel them to provide any kind of help.
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Apr 21, 2021 17:59
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Jaxyon posted:Apparently it took an hour between the police call and the police arriving and the person who called is the dead child and and they were calling because people were getting frisky with knives Setting aside the rest of the post, the police department should absolutely be dragged over this. A knife fight should jump to the top of the priority list and involve going in sirens blaring.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:00
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Also UK cops deal with this exact scenario without guns routinely because instead of weeping about sharpies they accept some loving risk to themselves.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:02
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SchnorkIes posted:It would've been a better outcome if he had let the girl with the knife do what she was doing to do and then arrested her, even if there was a loss of innocent life. The damage to communities from the State parachuting in and performing street executions is far greater than that from literally anything else. "Do what she was going to do" is a cute way to say "commit murder."
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Apr 21, 2021 18:03
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ryde posted:Adam Toledo is I think what you're referring to, and yeah that's an example that I'd consider unequivocally police murder. IIRC he had a gun but dropped it and raised his hands before the police just loving murdered him. Hopefully they rot in jail.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:04
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Baronash posted:"Do what she was going to do" is a cute way to say "commit murder." Yes I usually call the cops on myself and hang around for an hour when I'm about to commit murder.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:05
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^^^^^ So you're purposely ignoring what happened? ^^^^^Baronash posted:"Do what she was going to do" is a cute way to say "commit murder." Let children commit murder to strengthen the community is a fresh take, I have to admit.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:07
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Jaxyon posted:Yes I usually call the cops on myself and hang around for an hour when I'm about to commit murder. The situation obviously changed within that hour because the video I watched shows her trying to murder someone.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:08
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SchnorkIes posted:There's a lot of ways a fight with a knife involved might end up with someone hurt or dead and that sucks but running into the situation and mag dumping into a child guarantees it. It's a miracle he didn't kill anyone else. 99% of the time when kids, especially non white kids, fight it's just posturing anyway and anyone with sense knows this. I think when you're swinging a potentially lethal weapon at someone's body it's gone beyond posturing
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Apr 21, 2021 18:09
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ryde posted:Adam Toledo is I think what you're referring to, and yeah that's an example that I'd consider unequivocally police murder. IIRC he had a gun but dropped it and raised his hands before the police just loving murdered him. Hopefully they rot in jail. Rice was the very young child who was holding a toy gun in a park and an officer murdered him within 3s of arriving on-scene. The shot were fired before the cruiser had even fully stopped. Don’t watch the video unless you want to just despair in an incredible scale.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:10
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ryde posted:The situation obviously changed within that hour because the video I watched shows her trying to murder someone. Yeah it's weird how it changed right as the racist murder force arrived, to specifically justify them murdering here, and the only info they've released so far is something that justifies their murder. Probably we should trust the police on this one, they're deserving of the benefit of the doubt based on their long history of being totally justified in murdering children.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:10
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SchnorkIes posted:Also UK cops deal with this exact scenario without guns routinely because instead of weeping about sharpies they accept some loving risk to themselves. They do yes as knives are the most dangerous things UK cops usually deal with and thus they get a lot of training for handling those situations. US cops don't get that training to the same extent if any as they're mostly worried about everyone around them being able to buy a gun down the street.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:12
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Jaxyon posted:Yeah it's weird how it changed right as the racist murder force arrived, to specifically justify them murdering here, and the only info they've released so far is something that justifies their murder. What evidence do you think would change the fact that she was trying to murder someone? I'm open to suggestions here but the video has about 10 seconds between the officer arriving and her trying to murder the girl in pink. I don't see a lot of wiggle room here for "actually its the cops fault she was swinging a knife at someone" or "actually she wasn't trying to murder someone by literally swinging a knife at them." I don't give cops a benefit of a doubt. I absolutely assumed that the cop just straight up murdered her. But the video is evidence, and the only details that I can think of are around what details of the altercation the cop was informed of by dispatch, whether they had a taser, and whether a taser would be a reasonable response in this situation.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:13
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Jaxyon posted:Yeah it's weird how it changed right as the racist murder force arrived, to specifically justify them murdering here, and the only info they've released so far is something that justifies their murder. Are you implying the police doctored the footage and placed the a knife there? Like what?
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Apr 21, 2021 18:14
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Jaxyon posted:Yeah it's weird how it changed right as the racist murder force arrived, to specifically justify them murdering here, and the only info they've released so far is something that justifies their murder. I understand and generally agree with your skepticism but there was an active murder attempt happening on camera. I too was skeptical. Then there was a video of a violent murder attempt and the officer intervening.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:15
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I don't think anyone in this thread was giving cops the benefit of the doubt actually. Literally everyone was pretty upset and assumed that the cops murdered the girl, until the bodycam video came out. That's not giving the cops benefit of the doubt.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:19
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Are there any witnesses who have said anything about the attempted stabbing so far? I feel like at the very least the witnesses would be conflicted about the shooting if they saw a stabbing was imminent.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:19
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TulliusCicero posted:Are there any witnesses who have said anything about the attempted stabbing so far? I feel like at the very least the witnesses would be conflicted about the shooting if they saw a stabbing was imminent. One of the witnesses claimed that the girl dropped the knife, which was a large part of why everyone initially reacted the way they did. The video clearly contradicts that testimony.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:21
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LeeMajors posted:I understand and generally agree with your skepticism but there was an active murder attempt happening on camera. What role do police play in precipitating that murder attempt if they took an hour to show up?
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Apr 21, 2021 18:25
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Baronash posted:"Do what she was going to do" is a cute way to say "commit murder." Excuse me but Ohio has Stand Your Ground laws, so deeming this attempted murder seems premature.
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Apr 21, 2021 18:26
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Did the cops not have tazers? Why are we going straight to lethal force? Or did they just gently caress up and shoot the wrong weapon again?
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Apr 21, 2021 18:26
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