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misadventurous posted:Why is a police officer shooting a private citizen to death better than a private citizen stabbing another private citizen to death? Absurd question, right? That is an absurd question, when the former prevents the latter.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:08
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Doctor Butts posted:I think the problem is that the officer drew his gun too early, so that by the time the girl was swinging the knife, there was no other way for him to put a stop to it in a short amount of time. American police are pretty poorly trained to handle people with knives because they're trained with stimulus response for "everyone has guns because it's America" -- lethal threats basically move up to start shooting in seconds This is both a our cops problem and a the entire nation and all its laws problem at once
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Apr 22, 2021 22:09
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Again, I think focusing only on the exact moment of the shooting has the potential to absolve the police as an institution from responsibility in favour of either blaming or absolving this one police officer. The shooting itself is, yes, open for debate. What's not open for debate is the following chain of events: Black girl calls cops ---> ????? ---> Black girl is shot dead by police officer who believed she was imminently (as in, within seconds) commit murder Something hosed up very badly, because this should not have happened. Even if you believe 100% that the officer was justified in taking the shot at the moment he did so, which is not clear, it's still an absolutely hosed situation that should never have happened. There's a bunch of poo poo in that ????? segment that probably led to this outcome. If taking the shot was indeed the only reasonable choice that officer could have made (again, not saying it was) then I still want to know a lot more about how that came to be the only reasonable choice the officer could've made in that circumstance.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:09
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Fister Roboto posted:Withholding your personal opinion about something is not denying reality. There is absolutely no reason for so many posters to be letting everyone know that they think this was a "good shoot". It's disgusting and accomplishes nothing except further justifying the police state. Yeah, totally. We shouldn't call out incidents of misinformation because it could hurt the other side. We should just be spreading misinformation because the only side that is right is MINE and there's no other options. Good take. misadventurous posted:This was not self defense this was a state actor killing without full understanding of what was happening. Why is a police officer shooting a private citizen to death better than a private citizen stabbing another private citizen to death? Absurd question, right? They’re both bad. But surely you understand why a state sanctioned officer of the law showing up and immediately mowing down a child is contentious. This wasn’t “reasonable” by the terms you’re suggesting raminasi posted:One (of the many) things that makes this conversation hard is that he probably didn't use a gun because of that analysis, even though that analysis does support using one. He probably used the gun because cops are trained (implicitly, if not explicitly) to use their guns whenever they're stressed or freaked out or in any kind of choatic situation, especially one involving primarily black people. Doctor Butts posted:I think the problem is that the officer drew his gun too early, so that by the time the girl was swinging the knife, there was no other way for him to put a stop to it in a short amount of time. sexpig by night posted:you're the one who turned it to 'well what if it was your daughter in the cop's position', which completely changes the event, stop with this faux victim 'ARE YOU GASLIGHTING ME???' bullshit when you're the one who went to Rush Limbaugh's favorite 'ah you think a cop was bad? well what if your child was being raped and murdered then you'd like cops wouldn't you???' rhetoric to justify this poo poo. There's lots of posts here that are showing a complete misunderstanding of how human beings work. We're all incredibly flawed creatures that are sometimes put in awful situations and have to make terrible decisions. If the officer hadn't shot Ma'Khia the girl in the pink would have been stabbed, and might have died. If you're fine with that happening, cool, I feel like there would be an equally negative reaction against the cop if the stabbing had happened, but who knows. Aegis posted:Eh; it gets close. For example, I see one poster saying: Yeah, I completely agree with this. Just because a situation is inconvenient for your ideology doesn't mean that you get to just ignore it, or even worse, use it as fuel for more ideologically motivated propaganda. Vahakyla posted:There’s no hypothetical? The other girl is literally about to bite it. Completely agree with this.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:09
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sexpig by night posted:why didn't he use a stun gun or pepper spray or something from the constantly revolving arsenal of non-lethal (or less than lethal since those wind up killing plenty too) tools we keep having to buy these loving people Tasers notoriously fail very often and pepper spray does nothing to stop someone from swinging a knife. If you're going to argue at least don't pretend to be an idiot to try to make a point
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Apr 22, 2021 22:10
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:
It is not incongruous to believe that a healthy society would include some firm of police or law enforcement and also believe that our current implementation is monstrous and needs to be completely rebuilt.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:11
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Like two sentences up from this you said “the police force is an essential part of a well functioning society” Yes, wanting a well trained and well regulated police force is not the same as being aligned with the Blue Lives Matter movement, hope this helps.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:11
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Like two sentences up from this you said “the police force is an essential part of a well functioning society” An unfortunate thing that happens in police abolition conversations is that sometimes the word "police" means "a publicly accountable social organism bestowed with a monopoly on violence" and sometimes it means "United States cops" and those are very different concepts. Sometimes people use both senses of the word in the same statement!
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Apr 22, 2021 22:12
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Terebus posted:There's lots of posts here that are showing a complete misunderstanding of how human beings work. We're all incredibly flawed creatures that are sometimes put in awful situations and have to make terrible decisions. If the officer hadn't shot Ma'Khia the girl in the pink would have been stabbed, and might have died. If you're fine with that happening, cool, I feel like there would be an equally negative reaction against the cop if the stabbing had happened, but who knows. That was my point: The officer probably didn't use those seven seconds to do any complicated analysis of the tools available to him. The cop probably said "oh poo poo, danger, use gun" because that's what cops are trained to fall back to.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:14
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Terebus posted:Yes, wanting a well trained and well regulated police force is not the same as being aligned with the Blue Lives Matter movement, hope this helps. So why do you deny being pro police then
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Apr 22, 2021 22:14
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raminasi posted:That was my point: The officer probably didn't use those seven seconds to do any complicated analysis of the tools available to him. The cop probably said "oh poo poo, danger, use gun" because that's what cops are trained to fall back to. Tell me what world you live in where you arrive in a car, see someone getting attacked with a knife, and need to conduct an intense analysis of the situation to know that they are in immediate danger of being killed or maimed?
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Apr 22, 2021 22:15
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PT6A posted:Again, I think focusing only on the exact moment of the shooting has the potential to absolve the police as an institution from responsibility in favour of either blaming or absolving this one police officer. The shooting itself is, yes, open for debate. What's not open for debate is the following chain of events: Yep, there's two different topics that need to be talked about. First, if the shoot should have happened, and I support a full independent investigation into this. Second, what can be done from a "macro" perspective to prevent situations like this from happening, things like better funded and accessible social programs as well as better police training. I want both to happen.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:15
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Cage Kicker posted:Tell me what world you live in where you arrive in a car, see someone getting attacked with a knife, and need to conduct an intense analysis of the situation to know that they are in immediate danger of being killed or maimed? I don't live in that world? It might be a good idea for you to be explicit about what you position you think I'm staking and what you think is wrong about it, because I'm getting the sense that your desire to land a burn led you down a garden path.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:19
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raminasi posted:One (of the many) things that makes this conversation hard is that he probably didn't use a gun because of that analysis, even though that analysis does support using one. He probably used the gun because cops are trained (implicitly, if not explicitly) to use their guns whenever they're stressed or freaked out or in any kind of choatic situation, especially one involving primarily black people. Fun fact to consider, cops are #22 of occupations at risk of dying on the job, behind landscape supervisors, farmers, roofers, and garbage collectors. The idea that cops are "putting their lives on the line" needs to get shut the gently caress down because that's the mentality that has led to their immediate impulse to fire at the slightest twitch of a black person's hand.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:24
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TulliusCicero posted:I really do feel like there is a missing component here in this case. Something just doesn't sit right with me. Yeah. What's weird to me is how everyone is just kind of standing around when the cop pulls up, implying there hasn't been any really dangerous violence yet, but then right away Bryant goes berserk, as if she were waiting for the cop to show. She's the one who called the police too. I wonder if she assumed somehow that the officer would back her up, or maybe get a few stabs in before the cop pulled her off, keeping her from getting hurt herself? Very strange scene. Where is the definitive information on how long it took the cops to respond to the 911 call? Originally I heard a whole hour, but haven't seen that demonstrated anywhere.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:26
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raminasi posted:That was my point: The officer probably didn't use those seven seconds to do any complicated analysis of the tools available to him. The cop probably said "oh poo poo, danger, use gun" because that's what cops are trained to fall back to. I don't think you can really do a complicated analysis in 7 seconds, I think the decision was either let the girl in pink get stabbed or shoot Ma'Khia. I think the best trained officers from around the world would react the same given the situation. I'm just some random internet guy though, so I'll wait and see what the investigation determines. Uncle Boogeyman posted:So why do you deny being pro police then My previous post might have been unclear, but a poster above explained it better, I quoted it. I want a well functioning police force, but I'm not pro US cop as it stand, that's what I meant. raminasi posted:An unfortunate thing that happens in police abolition conversations is that sometimes the word "police" means "a publicly accountable social organism bestowed with a monopoly on violence" and sometimes it means "United States cops" and those are very different concepts. Sometimes people use both senses of the word in the same statement!
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Apr 22, 2021 22:28
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Terebus posted:I don't think you can really do a complicated analysis in 7 seconds, I think the decision was either let the girl in pink get stabbed or shoot Ma'Khia. I think the best trained officers from around the world would react the same given the situation. I'm just some random internet guy though, so I'll wait and see what the investigation determines. Oh, I completely agree. I just think that "He didn't use a Taser because it was the incorrect tool for the situation" both (likely) doesn't describe what actually happened and obscures some very real, very terrible, very relevant problems with United States policing. It has the effect of shutting the conversation down, which is not what should happen.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:31
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prick with tenure posted:Where is the definitive information on how long it took the cops to respond to the 911 call? Originally I heard a whole hour, but haven't seen that demonstrated anywhere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0YZ38XAZyQ I don't know if the video is edited to include audio, but if you take a look the officer is parked at the beginning of the video and it takes him about a minute to arrive at the scene. You can hear the 911 call too and the caller is in mid sentence when they stop and say something along the lines of "Oh, well, nevermind the police are already up here", so I think the total time between call and response is about a minute? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong though.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:33
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prick with tenure posted:Yeah. What's weird to me is how everyone is just kind of standing around when the cop pulls up, implying there hasn't been any really dangerous violence yet, but then right away Bryant goes berserk, as if she were waiting for the cop to show. She's the one who called the police too. I wonder if she assumed somehow that the officer would back her up, or maybe get a few stabs in before the cop pulled her off, keeping her from getting hurt herself? Very strange scene. I don't think I can really get into the mind of an angry 16 year old black girl, but "I bet the cops will help me out" is not something I would ever consider a likely option.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:34
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Terebus posted:There's lots of posts here that are showing a complete misunderstanding of how human beings work. We're all incredibly flawed creatures that are sometimes put in awful situations and have to make terrible decisions. If the officer hadn't shot Ma'Khia the girl in the pink would have been stabbed, and might have died. If you're fine with that happening, cool, I feel like there would be an equally negative reaction against the cop if the stabbing had happened, but who knows. The fact that humans are flawed beings who make irrational decisions seems like a pretty good argument against cops having the capacity to dispense extrajudicial executions in a split second, to me at least. Also if the cop hadn't shot anyone then I doubt we'd hear about this story at all. People get stabbed all the time, and there's never any outcry over the cops not blowing away the stabber. Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Apr 22, 2021 |
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Apr 22, 2021 22:36
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pentyne posted:I don't think I can really get into the mind of an angry 16 year old black girl, but "I bet the cops will help me out" is not something I would ever consider a likely option. Then why did she call them? She might have been getting threatened or hurt by the other people there, and somehow thought the cop would see her actions once he got there as self-defense.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:37
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Terebus posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0YZ38XAZyQ Yeah, the video is weird. It's like he's right there around the corner when the call comes in. I would have thought he was listening to a recording of a call that came in earlier but the recording ends with someone saying, "Oh the cops are here," right when he pulls up.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:39
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raminasi posted:Oh, I completely agree. I just think that "He didn't use a Taser because it was the incorrect tool for the situation" both (likely) doesn't describe what actually happened and obscures some very real, very terrible, very relevant problems with United States policing. It has the effect of shutting the conversation down, which is not what should happen. Okay, I think we're both in the same general area with the situation. I'm all for a national discourse on policing practices. I'm also trying to be as objective as possible about the situation and how it unfolded and I think the officer made the best of the worst decisions available to him, given the context.
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Apr 22, 2021 22:43
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:
I don't see how this is controversial in the slightest? Every nation on earth has some type of law enforcement. Like, you can literally have the idea that policing in america is racist, classist, and needs a complete overhaul from training to scope of mission to rooting out and eliminating the toxic culture, and realizing that law enforcement is a necessary and frankly under-appreciated component of society.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:00
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Fister Roboto posted:Also if the cop hadn't shot anyone then I doubt we'd hear about this story at all. People get stabbed all the time, and there's never any outcry over the cops not blowing away the stabber. Wtf is this supposed to mean? Do you think that stabbings are just no big deal, lol who cares if someone gets stabbed to death? 
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Apr 22, 2021 23:03
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Terebus posted:Okay, I think we're both in the same general area with the situation. I'm all for a national discourse on policing practices. I'm also trying to be as objective as possible about the situation and how it unfolded and I think the officer made the best of the worst decisions available to him, given the context. Police are unable to be reformed. We've had the same problems and attempted to reform them for well over 100 years. This conversation comes up again and again. Police need to be abolished, and we can come up with a service that does necessary societal things that is not based in US policing and white supremacy. The "Police aren't killing everyone in literally every single incident like traffic stops" is literally the arguments that Blue Lives Matter people use, verbatim, and ignores the fact that police regularly kill people in traffic stops and often open the conversation with guns drawn. Nelson Mandingo posted:I don't see how this is controversial in the slightest? Every nation on earth has some type of law enforcement. You're conflating "law enforcement" with "police". Which often overlap but can become confusing in discusions of police reform/abolition. I'd recommend that a bunch of posters here go read and post in the police reform thread but for some reason people seem more comfortable here.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:04
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Wtf is this supposed to mean? Do you think that stabbings are just no big deal, lol who cares if someone gets stabbed to death? No, I'm saying that it wouldn't be national news. Stop strawmanning.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:09
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Jaxyon posted:Police are unable to be reformed. We've had the same problems and attempted to reform them for well over 100 years. This conversation comes up again and again. Who the gently caress cares whether they're called police, cops, popo, law enforcement or what the gently caress ever? It's the same drat thing, we would still have laws and still need some group of people to enforce, investigate etc.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:12
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If someone believes that police should never use force to to defend someone from a knife person, that's fine. It's a valid opinion, sure. But this isn't a police abolition thread, unlike the police abolition thread is. I think of this thread as the discussion related to this shooting mainly, and the facts around it, and not as a "well police should not exist, ergo neither should this shooting". Which surely is a valid position, but perhaps beyond the scope of this thread? Mainly I imagine this thread is about if the police officer shot the girl out of racism and malicious intent to murder, or if it was considered to be self-defence and valid within, at least somewhat, the framework of our current society and not the society where guns are not allowed. I do believe in abolishment of the current law enforcement, but also some sort of armed response force as the peacekeeping entity for maintaining order, and protecting people. While I have an extremely hostile attitude towards all cops, especially american ones, I don't think that the american police are uncapable of doing a good thing sometimes. After all, cops have saved my loved one from a quite literal death, which I've sometimes mentioned before in cop discussion. That's my own anecdotal evidence for police sometimes doing decent things.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:12
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prick with tenure posted:Where is the definitive information on how long it took the cops to respond to the 911 call? Originally I heard a whole hour, but haven't seen that demonstrated anywhere. It was ~12 minutes in total from the first 911 call: https://www.katc.com/news/america-in-crisis/makhia-bryant-shooting-columbus-police-release-911-calls-additional-body-camera-footage quote:According to police officials on Wednesday, officers received the first 911 call at 4:32 p.m. ET. They were dispatched at 4:35 p.m. ET, and officers arrived on the scene at 4:44 p.m. ET. I think the only place I heard an hour response time was some poster here a couple days ago (Jaxyon, I think?), but I have no idea where they got that information. Terebus posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0YZ38XAZyQ The "the police are already here" part was from the second 911 call, from the foster dad I believe.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:14
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Fister Roboto posted:No, I'm saying that it wouldn't be national news. Stop strawmanning. Ah yes, a bodycam video of a police officer just standing by while a black child gets stabbed wouldn't be national news, makes sense. Jaxyon posted:Police are unable to be reformed. We've had the same problems and attempted to reform them for well over 100 years. This conversation comes up again and again. I think your views have been tainted by the media you consume. There have been various levels of police reform throughout the country and the current state of policing in the US is vastly different than it was 100 years ago. It also sounds like you're advocating for a police force but just not calling it a police force? In 2018 there were 53 million police interactions and 990 people were shot and killed. If my math is right, that's about 2 people killed for every 100,000 police incidents. Looking at those numbers, a majority of police incidents in the US are probably warranted and maybe even necessary for a well functioning society. We can believe that while also looking at those shootings and saying we should vastly reduce that number and prosecute any officer that killed someone unjustly. That's the direction the US should be going in, not abolishing all policing. Jaxyon posted:I'd recommend that a bunch of posters here go read and post in the police reform thread but for some reason people seem more comfortable here. Nice well poisoning you're doing. I'm glad you've convinced yourself that I'm a racist bootlicker or something.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:21
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quote:You're conflating "law enforcement" with "police". The issue with law enforcement discussed in this thread is police, policing, and the circumstances of a killing of a teenager by a police officer. So no, I think this it's in the correct place. Abolishing the police is a larger topic and outside the scope of the thread. I'm merely pointing out that functionally every nation on the planet has police officers and it's absolutely not controversial.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:22
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Nelson Mandingo posted:I'm merely pointing out that functionally every nation on the planet has police officers and it's absolutely not controversial. Yeah, and the ideological stance of "someone can use self defence reasonably, or defend someone else reasonably" basically also exists everywhere in the world, and it isn't controversial. And I think it is perfectly fine to think those two things, and still hold that law enforcement is a horribly tainted institution that needs to be uprooted everywhere and reassembled or radically restructured to get any kind of meaningful change. As a light hearted example, almost all governments are really hosed up, but that's not an argument necessarily against the government as a concept.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:25
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Who the gently caress cares whether they're called police, cops, popo, law enforcement or what the gently caress ever? It's the same drat thing, we would still have laws and still need some group of people to enforce, investigate etc. Because people intentionally conflate abolition of the police with abolition of law enforcement. It's important to be clear.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:27
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Kalit posted:It was ~12 minutes in total from the first 911 call: https://www.katc.com/news/america-in-crisis/makhia-bryant-shooting-columbus-police-release-911-calls-additional-body-camera-footage Thanks for the info, that seems like a reasonable response time. As an aside, I love the contrast between what I've said in my posts and the red text in my new av.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:28
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Terebus posted:Ah yes, a bodycam video of a police officer just standing by while a black child gets stabbed wouldn't be national news, makes sense. It's an unprovable hypothetical either way, and I immediately regret engaging with it if you're just going to post like an rear end in a top hat like this.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:33
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Terebus posted:I think your views have been tainted by the media you consume. There have been various levels of police reform throughout the country and the current state of policing in the US is vastly different than it was 100 years ago. It also sounds like you're advocating for a police force but just not calling it a police force? I'm sure you think that I'm tainted or whatever. If you want to make broad statements about police and how well reform works, go post in the police reform thread. But read it first. Terebus posted:Nice well poisoning you're doing. I'm glad you've convinced yourself that I'm a racist bootlicker or something. Allow me to be clear. I suspect that you don't want to engage in informed discussion about police reform or abolition because it will challenge your current ignorance and position. You're repeating arguments, verbatim, that Blue Lives Matters supporters use. I'm simply responding to your posts. They're not good OP.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:33
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raminasi posted:An unfortunate thing that happens in police abolition conversations is that sometimes the word "police" means "a publicly accountable social organism bestowed with a monopoly on violence" and sometimes it means "United States cops" and those are very different concepts. Sometimes people use both senses of the word in the same statement! Imagine being one and meeting the other, and not saying "what the gently caress" every 20 minutes for the rest of your life Doctor Butts posted:I think the problem is that the officer drew his gun too early, so that by the time the girl was swinging the knife, there was no other way for him to put a stop to it in a short amount of time. You ain't kiddin. The true nature of this fuckup-by-committee doesn't reveal itself until you take a good, long, Thursday-morning-quarterback look at all of the mistakes that led up to that moment, and hooo boy, did the two you point out ever happen. Second part first: Pink Track Suit seemed to want to talk to Reardon as he approached, but things immediately went pear-shaped and it didn't look like he ever really had anyone else's attention before he shot and killed a child. The commands he was shouting had may as well have been mumbled into his sleeve for all the presence he had. But at least he was bodily there -- where were those other two? They certainly took their sweetass time moseying to the scene, and even after Ma'Khia fell down and lay dying next to the car, it seemed to take forever for those other two to control Reardon's weapon (because he seemed to have completely frozen with a stress reaction) and help her*. Him freezing after realizing he'd killed a child I can understand, but those two didn't look like they knew what the gently caress they were doing either. What had they been doing all that time, I ask of the span of seven seconds? If the Queen had wings she'd be a bird, and if either of those two had been at his side when the young woman in the skirt fell/was pushed to the ground, and any of them remembered anything about their training other than dirty jokes, that knife would've been secured straight away and their complainant would be alive to explain what happened. Absolutely guaranteed. *(And for the spokesman to say they "immediately" helped her was rich. I've seen people in their nineties move with more immediacy) Infuriatingly, he would've been fine with his backup dopily ambling in his general direction once her back was turned, because he was maybe three strides from horse-collaring her and ending it. Instead he chose to pull out his firearm and kill her, which sounds like two choices but it's really one choice made twice at the same time, and that leads into your first very correct point about force options. You can use gross muscle movements to park a baton or pepper spray if holding one becomes inconvenient; the only place to park your handgun is in your holster, and when your heart's going 180 and your fine motor coordination is complete jello, that's going to take time you don't have. Once the gun is in his hand, that's it, "kill or do not kill" are now his only two options. And once he points it at her he's hosed his backup too, because they can't talk to the child he has at gunpoint, or run into his arc to grapple with her using the strength of one or two moving adults against a child who's unsteady on her feet and has her back turned. And just to make you even angrier, consider that pointing a gun at someone and yelling commands was at best a perfunctory prelude to shooting her anyway, because she had her back to him and could neither see the gun nor give any indication that she'd heard anything he'd said since he arrived. Reardon painted himself into a corner with his decisions, and created for himself a situation in which shooting her became the only option he had left. His choice to go straight to the gun, knowing she wasn't listening to him, knowing she wouldn't recognize any reason to comply if she even heard him at all, would have been a choice to kill her even in a country where being a Black person held at gunpoint by police didn't mean you were very likely to die in the next ten seconds regardless of what you did. And no, in that moment, normal humans don't have the cycles to burn through that thought process in time to not gently caress it up, that is why you're trained in advance so you know how to think and act if ever you're so unfortunate that the time comes for you to threaten to end someone's life. You'd think they'd cover these truths about use of force at some point in the thirty-one weeks it takes Columbus to train a recruit, and do it in a way that'll stick with you for your whole career... which in this man's case was a span of about eighteen months.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:37
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Vahakyla posted:And I think it is perfectly fine to think those two things, and still hold that law enforcement is a horribly tainted institution that needs to be uprooted everywhere and reassembled or radically restructured to get any kind of meaningful change. As a light hearted example, almost all governments are really hosed up, but that's not an argument necessarily against the government as a concept. .....I....completely agree? But the idea that believing law enforcement and policing in our current nation-state system should merely exist somehow makes you "pro-cop" (what?) or somehow morally compromised like some posters are attempting to suggest is ridiculous.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:37
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PSA: HI IF YOU WANT TO MAKE BROAD STATEMENTS ABOUT THE POLICE BEING 100% EVIL OR ATUALLY ONLY 1% CLICK HERE, WHICH IS A THING THE MODS ALREADY TOLD YOU This is a thread about the very specific incident of where a child, Ma'Khia Bryant, was killed by a police officer.
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Apr 22, 2021 23:44
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