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sometimes...its ok to post cringe
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Apr 24, 2021 07:00
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Apr 24, 2021 07:01
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The stuff about Hunter Biden obliviously believing he just earned all his jobs on the recent Chapo episode reminded me of this guy I was friends with in college. We went to a career forum together to interview for jobs, and he was a rich Russian guy who had gotten a job through his father's connections the previous summer at some hedge fund. After he successfully got some job, he thought it was because of how bold he was during the interview. He was genuinely confused and surprised that I didn't have any luck (I wasn't, since these were the sort of internships you can only really get if you go to an ivy/ivy-equivalent or have something else that really sets you apart, like the hedge fund job he had). I think I was literally the only person he knew who wasn't rich (or at least from an upper-middle class family with parents who make 6-figures), so it's really easy to see how people like this can end up with all sorts of wacky assumptions about how the world works - after all, everyone they know has similar experiences.
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Apr 24, 2021 07:08
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The more I've read into JFK the more convinced I am it was a conspiracy but also get over it.
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Apr 24, 2021 07:50
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gh0stpinballa posted:The more I've read into JFK the more convinced I am it was a conspiracy but also get over it. this parody comic but gwb asking daddy about dallas 
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Apr 24, 2021 08:12
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gh0stpinballa posted:The more I've read into JFK the more convinced I am it was a conspiracy but also get over it. No, it's interesting.
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Apr 24, 2021 08:58
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:No, it's interesting. It is interesting but i have also heard a grown man say it represents the moment when "they killed the future" which is pretty silly for anyone to say nvm a 30 year old in 2021.
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Apr 24, 2021 09:04
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gh0stpinballa posted:It is interesting but i have also heard a grown man say it represents the moment when "they killed the future" which is pretty silly for anyone to say nvm a 30 year old in 2021. Eh, it's when a possible future died but we'd have to go back to 1492 or so to find when the white man actually killed the future
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Apr 24, 2021 09:11
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gh0stpinballa posted:It is interesting but i have also heard a grown man say it represents the moment when "they killed the future" which is pretty silly for anyone to say nvm a 30 year old in 2021. i'd agree the actual event itself isn't interesting and whodunnit is dumb because that's already clear, and even it it isn't the ramifications are obvious. i don't think it was a "turning point", rather it was the point the butterfly breaks out of the pupae. perhaps there's a slight chance the pupae could have been stomped on, and in that very slight chance and the nation-wide gaslighting that followed makes it an interesting event, but like the language brace used, it's all lattice work; the warp and the weft. the rug was finished with the last thread and from there on out it was 100% deep-state ran global neoliberalism, and as msj puts it, the last point in time when practice and articulation of something that could once reasonably could have been called politics in a recognizable way, in any other part of the world at any other time in history, to what we have now, the symbolic pageantry of a quasi political kind of passionate play, whose meaning is almost entirely provided by the audience. followed by doing it again to his brother (who would have won) a few years later nearly identical. and then more foreverever wars and crushing of the boot anyways the real fracturing of the timeline was when abe lincoln was assasinated
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Apr 24, 2021 09:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tvlIcQ5VT0
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Apr 24, 2021 09:18
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Xaris posted:anyways the real fracturing of the timeline was when abe lincoln was assasinated I wish Peter Dale Scott had gotten around to doing his book about deep state politics through history. Iirc he was going to look at Rome, Greece, 30 years war, civil war US etc. It would have been a useful way to contextualise the JFK hit and take a bit of heat out of the scorching, apocalyptic Takes about it.
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Apr 24, 2021 09:36
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gh0stpinballa posted:I wish Peter Dale Scott had gotten around to doing his book about deep state politics through history. Iirc he was going to look at Rome, Greece, 30 years war, civil war US etc. It would have been a useful way to contextualise the JFK hit and take a bit of heat out of the scorching, apocalyptic Takes about it. https://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/opensecret.htm Francis E Dec talks about this, oddly enough
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Apr 24, 2021 09:43
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Slanderer posted:if you want to sing a song do it at home. mr phil greaves!
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Apr 24, 2021 10:15
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Ytlaya posted:I found it interesting when they talked about the SoIaF books being easy reading like the book version of Law and Order, since I always felt the complete opposite. I just could not get into reading them. They're almost the opposite of "page-turners." every chapter ends on a mini-cliff hanger and a new pov starts.
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Apr 24, 2021 11:12
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bedpan posted:https://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/opensecret.htm No
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Apr 24, 2021 11:40
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Apr 24, 2021 12:15
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Josh Christ posted:"actually it's cringe to sing a song about how we're all getting hosed but if we stand together the powers that be can suck our collective dick and choke on it, which has good rear end lyrics and a melody that is ingrained in the genetic memory of 99% of americans" - a moron 
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Apr 24, 2021 12:16
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a lot of rituals of togetherness are really cringe, especially in today's hyperironic and deeply atomised world. i actually liked it when they made fools of themselves butchering that song, it was a charming spot of defiance against a way of life which is realistically pretty poo poo
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Apr 24, 2021 12:19
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V. Illych L. posted:a lot of rituals of togetherness are really cringe, especially in today's hyperironic and deeply atomised world. i actually liked it when they made fools of themselves butchering that song, it was a charming spot of defiance against a way of life which is realistically pretty poo poo yeah, honestly, same, it's kinda why i enjoyed 2020 primary chapo, there was a bit of earnestness there
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Apr 24, 2021 12:20
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the song is fine but that post is extremely cringe lol
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Apr 24, 2021 12:21
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gh0stpinballa posted:It is interesting but i have also heard a grown man say it represents the moment when "they killed the future" which is pretty silly for anyone to say nvm a 30 year old in 2021. Yeah this was the vibe I got from the Trueanon episode as well. I think this was more prominent among one of the guests than everyone else, but JFK's assassination kept getting framed as this final foreclosure on a particular brand of foreign policy and that it was some big lamentable thing rather than just ruling class inside baseball. Lincoln's assassination was arguably a "killed the future" moment if you assume that he would have been pushed in his second term to aggressively deal with all the backsliding into slavery that the southern states were doing with apprenticeship laws and everything else. Maybe Reconstruction would have taken a noticeably better course if the president went along with the Radical Republican program rather than constantly sabotaging things like Johnson did. But it's an open question. If you wanna be charitable to Lincoln you can point to how he was pushed towards emancipation in his first term by the horrendous military situation in the eastern theater among other factors. If you wanna be skeptical you can point to Lincoln's horrible ideas about Reconstruction and general underestimation of revanchism that would predominate in the south after the war was over. You can see another big counterfactual if Ben Wade had been made president had Johnson's impeachment played out differently. But even then a president only has so much power and they only have limited contexts/time periods in which to exercise it. I just don't see anything on that level with JFK. If his brand of foreign policy won out then the alternative is, what, IMF-style structural adjustment programs in countries that achieve national liberation? I can't squint my eyes and see a possibly very different situation like I can with Lincoln, for example. MeatwadIsGod has issued a correction as of 13:42 on Apr 24, 2021 |
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Apr 24, 2021 12:40
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Apr 24, 2021 12:50
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Atrocious Joe posted:The TrueAnon description of Kennedy hasn't won me over, but I think it gives good context. The CIA/mob/corporate leaders didn't have perfect knowledge of the situation at the time either, and JFK just giving the impression of being less openly imperialist could be enough for them. I don't know Joe Kennedy was well known for his Nazi sympathies and JFK was a staunch Cold Warrior as a Senator and was the first to lower upper marginal trax rates down from the New Deal era. It's not like he was actually looking to cooperate with the Soviet Union, the Cuban Missile Crisis is proof of that, the much vaunted draw down order for Vietnam was fairly routine in cycling of personal into and out of country, and Robert had been a staffer for Joe McCarthy. At best if Robert was actually against the war in '68 it's probably because he remembered documents from the early 60s saying the war was unwinnable and he saw a lane to advance NY picking up that cause. So sure maybe the Deep State were suspicious of the Kennedy brothers for the stated purpose, or the CIA instead of taking blame for the failure of the Bay of Pigs, projected that onto the Kennedy's the same way the Deep State projected "losing China" onto the State Department in the 50s. It's not that we vastly underestimated the popularity of the people we backed, we were sabotaged by those guys, sure isn't a common theme in American imperial adventures in the 20th & 21st centuries. Also as we all know the timeline fractured in August of 1920 when Poles defeat the Red Army outside Warsaw and prevent the Soviets from linking up with the German Revolution
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Apr 24, 2021 12:51
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Didn't Kennedy mostly change after the Cuban missile crisis when it scared the poo poo out of him?
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Apr 24, 2021 13:23
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Two things: 1. Lincoln's second term would have been a hell of a lot better than Andrew Johnson's who personally gave the planter aristocracy a slap on the wrist and bent over backwards to take their side throughout his presidency. Whatever you think of Lincoln he at least would not have done that. 2. I think its pretty clear that if JFK was killed for anything it was his promise to destroy the CIA. Which makes the whole motivation for the assassination a factional power struggle. Anything else seems secondary and difficult to prove at best.
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Apr 24, 2021 13:43
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gh0stpinballa posted:I wish Peter Dale Scott had gotten around to doing his book about deep state politics through history. Iirc he was going to look at Rome, Greece, 30 years war, civil war US etc. It would have been a useful way to contextualise the JFK hit and take a bit of heat out of the scorching, apocalyptic Takes about it. I think jfk was accidentally killed by his secret service detail bevayse it is the absolute stupidest and funniest option and thus the reality
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Apr 24, 2021 14:11
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AnEdgelord posted:2. I think its pretty clear that if JFK was killed for anything it was his promise to destroy the CIA. Which makes the whole motivation for the assassination a factional power struggle. Anything else seems secondary and difficult to prove at best. This has been my personal hunch on reading Yankee and the cowboy war. The Kennedys were this new money family who were always just outside the elite oligarchy. Joe thought his boys would take the clan to that next level and it was a spectacular miscalculation. Maybe JFK did have some kind of plan to withdraw from Vietnam but just cos your dad got the mafia to steal you an election doesn't actually make you the leader of the free world. And also banging a mob boss's gf and Cord Meyer's wife while already on the outs with Dulles and the CIA can't have helped either. I think we get carried away with grandiose visions of "deep state events" and "fractal patterns of psychic latticework" and lose sight of good old fashioned motivations like power and loving. Lower your mind from the psychorealm to the gutter and there is the motivation.
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Apr 24, 2021 14:59
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Josh Christ posted:I think jfk was accidentally killed by his secret service detail bevayse it is the absolute stupidest and funniest option and thus the reality Or it was this
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Apr 24, 2021 14:59
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V. Illych L. posted:a lot of rituals of togetherness are really cringe, especially in today's hyperironic and deeply atomised world. i actually liked it when they made fools of themselves butchering that song, it was a charming spot of defiance against a way of life which is realistically pretty poo poo It felt different live in the room than listening to it later on headphones, that's for sure
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Apr 24, 2021 15:19
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I thought it was funny an entertainment podcast got caught up thinking they were doing a politics and ending up getting owned a bunch of internet strangers awkwardly singing solidarity isn’t an act of defiance
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Apr 24, 2021 15:22
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dare to be cringe
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Apr 24, 2021 15:25
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the guys were pretty self aware when they were discussing the jimmy dore stuff and Matt said that it was about people self sorting themselves into consuming podcasts which would match their political identity
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Apr 24, 2021 15:37
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gh0stpinballa posted:This has been my personal hunch on reading Yankee and the cowboy war. The Kennedys were this new money family who were always just outside the elite oligarchy. Joe thought his boys would take the clan to that next level and it was a spectacular miscalculation. Maybe JFK did have some kind of plan to withdraw from Vietnam but just cos your dad got the mafia to steal you an election doesn't actually make you the leader of the free world. And also banging a mob boss's gf and Cord Meyer's wife while already on the outs with Dulles and the CIA can't have helped either. I think we get carried away with grandiose visions of "deep state events" and "fractal patterns of psychic latticework" and lose sight of good old fashioned motivations like power and loving. Lower your mind from the psychorealm to the gutter and there is the motivation.
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Apr 24, 2021 15:44
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gh0stpinballa posted:It is interesting but i have also heard a grown man say it represents the moment when "they killed the future" which is pretty silly for anyone to say nvm a 30 year old in 2021. The Future Died the day 17 US intelligence agencies said Russia hacked the US election
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Apr 24, 2021 16:16
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It's my sad duty to inform you all that calling everything cringe and cope is 100% as dorky as "epic fail" and "shitwhistling fuckbonnet" and you should be embarrassed. I'd also like to personally apologize to everyone ITT for anything I did to spur discussion of the Superstructure guy.
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Apr 24, 2021 16:22
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Breadallelogram posted:It felt different live in the room than listening to it later on headphones, that's for sure I remember listening to it at work when it dropped and like yeah it was corny but the energy at that moment made all the speeches and the singing and such feel good and real and I'll never talk poo poo about then for doing it just because hell world struck back.
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Apr 24, 2021 16:23
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gh0stpinballa posted:Or it was this So much of it makes sense in a really funny way afterwards. They hid his brain and transported the corpse weird after pulling guns demanding it be released to the secret service because they didn't want anyone to know Agent Steve panicked when oswald got a round off and accidentally blew the president's brains out of his big irish head It's also why none of the theories actually explain everything, when 9/11 guys have an answer for every detail: they can't. None of them are real. It's all just incidental to the united states of america being an incredibly stupid place full of the dumbest goddamn poo poo happening
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Apr 24, 2021 16:25
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Nothus posted:John Dolan has likened humanities academia to a religious orthodoxy complete with it's own incantations and ritualistic expectations, which I found amusing as a failed science academic. If nothing else, the hard sciences are more honest in their bare-knuckle politics.
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Apr 24, 2021 16:28
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Josh Christ posted:So much of it makes sense in a really funny way afterwards. They hid his brain and transported the corpse weird after pulling guns demanding it be released to the secret service because they didn't want anyone to know Agent Steve panicked when oswald got a round off and accidentally blew the president's brains out of his big irish head It also makes sense from a veil of secrecy kind of perspective. If you’re the mafia or the Cubans or the soviets or the CIA or whatever at some point somebody involved wants to throw their weight around and brag about this loving massive op they pulled off. If you’re the secret service and everyone involved just wants this poo poo to never get out because it’s deeply humiliating then. Well. Lol.
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Apr 24, 2021 16:29
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Alternately george hw was masquerading as a secret service guy which explains why he definitely was not in dallas but he wasn't sure where he was just definitely not in dallas, for sure, why would he be in dallas And then the secret service gently caress up covers the rest. Bing bong boom.
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Apr 24, 2021 16:32
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