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Shinjobi posted:Bare minimum it gave us my dad the super pilot space pirate It also made him a lovely father who abandoned his child for really stupid reasons, so I don't know that I'd count that as a good thing on the whole.
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Apr 25, 2021 17:40
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tsob posted:It also made him a lovely father who abandoned his child for really stupid reasons, so I don't know that I'd count that as a good thing on the whole. True, but in that series there is a serious discussion for whether or not he's the worst father in it. And that says even more about AGE
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Apr 25, 2021 18:20
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Shinjobi posted:True, but in that series there is a serious discussion for whether or not he's the worst father in it. He pretty much is. The only other on-screen father who gets a lot of time is Flit himself, and despite his genocide boner, Flit is nothing if not supportive and understanding of Asemu during Asemu's arc. He doesn't even pressure Asemu to force himself to try to become an x-rounder super ace, that's all Asemu's own doing.
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Apr 25, 2021 18:45
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Full disclosure I do consider the leader of Mars qualifies as well, for the absolute insanity of "could have moved away from deadly citizen killing planet rays, only chose to do so at the end of the series." Still, i see your point
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Apr 25, 2021 18:50
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So if Mars is rich in half-metal resource extraction does that mean there is still a giant cassette tape industry in the Post Disaster timeline?
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Apr 25, 2021 18:57
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Arcsquad12 posted:I'm watching Origin 6 and I'm kind of at a loss at how Dozle managed to get the drop on Revil's fleet to the point where they were literally doing point blank broadsides without the Feds firing back. I think the implication is supposed to be that the Zeon Mobile Suit forces were sewing confusion in the feddie line of battle but the way its edited makes it seem like Char snipes the Forrestal, then Dozle hits the fleet head on, and only then does the rest of the MS force catch up and hit the fleet. There is a very simple explanation for this: the origin is very bad at combat choreography whenever it involves anything other than “one side completely clowns the other side through sheer brute force and speed”
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Apr 25, 2021 19:09
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tsob posted:It also made him a lovely father who abandoned his child for really stupid reasons, so I don't know that I'd count that as a good thing on the whole. Yes but his son is Kio and abandoning that thing is probably a good call
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Apr 25, 2021 21:12
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RevolverDivider posted:Yes but his son is Kio and abandoning that thing is probably a good call On the other hand, a large part of the reason for Kio's turn to such extreme pacifism is probably the fact he was raised to view combat as a game and Vagans as literal non-people, and if he had a better father figure he probably wouldn't have turned so hard towards supporting the Vagan's lives at any cost.
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Apr 25, 2021 21:50
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RevolverDivider posted:Yes but his son is Kio and abandoning that thing is probably a good call But would he have sucked as much with better parenting? Then again, Flit was doing his best, and look at where that got him.
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Apr 25, 2021 21:54
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Flit was doing his best, but he was doing his best with a very specific agenda. He wanted Kio to be the best soldier ever, and to make up for failing Asemu since Asemu died in combat. Also, to be the avatar for his hatred towards the Vagan.
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Apr 25, 2021 21:58
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tsob posted:Flit was doing his best, but he was doing his best with a very specific agenda. He wanted Kio to be the best soldier ever, and to make up for failing Asemu since Asemu died in combat. Also, to be the avatar for his hatred towards the Vagan. Yeah, and look how that failed. If it wound up with Kio as a traumatized mess, or like Mikazuki with real problems thinking of his enemies as deserving of life? Then yeah. His methods were the cause of his grandson's issues. But Kio winding up valuing the lives of the enemy more than the lives of his comrades? That one isn't on genocide grandpa, and it's probably not an issue better parenting would fix.
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Apr 25, 2021 22:39
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chiasaur11 posted:Yeah, and look how that failed. If it wound up with Kio as a traumatized mess, or like Mikazuki with real problems thinking of his enemies as deserving of life? He wound up that way seemingly as a direct reaction to being raised to believe Vagan weren't human though. Which different parenting would presumably fix, especially since Asemu doesn't think that way about the Vagan.
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Apr 25, 2021 22:43
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tsob posted:He wound up that way seemingly as a direct reaction to being raised to believe Vagan weren't human though. Which different parenting would presumably fix, especially since Asemu doesn't think that way about the Vagan. Yeah, Flit's hardcore dehumanisation of the Vagan left him completely defenceless when some of them turned out to be human and likeable. It meant he had no realistic lens within which to understand the war.
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Apr 25, 2021 22:49
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Well, that's when you take the Gundam away from the kid who is, at best, a Team Killer and is at worst an active Traitor, and give it to someone else who won't get allies killed.
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Apr 25, 2021 23:10
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the gundam is a really big guy
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Apr 25, 2021 23:37
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The Dark Hound is cool but I feel like if that's the bare minimum it's kind of damning AGE by faint praise, since it's a reference to something that hasn't even gotten animated yet.
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Apr 26, 2021 00:41
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Age has a lot of good mobile suits. Age 2 Normal Dark Hound Zeydra and Legilis are all top notch designs
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Apr 26, 2021 00:44
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The Dark Hound feels quite tame for what it is. It doesn't lean nearly as hard into the pirate theme as it could, the way Flit's early units leaned into being wrestlers and ninjas with beam lariats and poo poo. Plus, it just comes off as really undergunned. I'm not a fan of the Legilis either, even though I like the Vagan aesthetic it's based on, including the Zeydra. I really like the goofier poo poo like the Xamdrag and Wrozzo though, so what the gently caress do I know...
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Apr 26, 2021 00:58
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I like the Danazine, big dumb space dragon thing. I wish the Eldora Danazine had gotten a little more screentime.
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Apr 26, 2021 01:33
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Complaining about AGE at this point is kind of trite considering there's been seven Gundam tv series since it, and charitably two of them have been better than it
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Apr 26, 2021 03:37
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Seemlar posted:Complaining about AGE at this point is kind of trite considering there's been seven Gundam tv series since it, and charitably two of them have been better than it Build Fighters, G-Reco, Build Fighters Try, Iron-Blooded Orphans, and ReRise were all significantly better than AGE, and that's if we discount Thunderbolt and The Origin. Like, not all of the above were great TV, but they were reliably more pleasant viewing experiences than AGE. Really, its only competition for truly awful Gundam TV is Build Divers and the SD Gundam series.
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Apr 26, 2021 03:51
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Seemlar posted:Complaining about AGE at this point is kind of trite considering there's been seven Gundam tv series since it, and charitably two of them have been better than it Since Age, and not counting SD we've gotten: Build Fighters Reconguista in G Build Fighters Try Gundam-San Iron Blooded Orphans Build Divers Build Divers Re:Rise We also had TV recuts of Unicorn and Origins, but I'll exclude those for the moment to simplify things. Build Fighters is widely praised as good fun with more heart than you'd expect for such a mech heavy show. Re:Rise is a solid isekai with a likable main cast and some good in-jokes, despite building off the wretchedness of Build Divers. And IBO's one of the best Gundams period. Even just going for the simple breakdown with no excess of generosity, that's three good shows since AGE. And AGE sucks enough that I'd put an interesting failure like G-Reco well ahead of it. At most, AGE beats Try and Divers since Gundam San, whatever its faults, is at least short.
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Apr 26, 2021 03:53
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Apr 26, 2021 04:06
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well eventually i will truly know AGE, but i would say at least even the worst of modern shows have the good sense to be 26 episodes or less
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Apr 26, 2021 04:06
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dogsicle posted:well eventually i will truly know AGE, but i would say at least even the worst of modern shows have the good sense to be 26 episodes or less AGE had a structural conceit to it that, if it had followed through, could easily have justified running for a full year. They did not do nearly enough with. The second rather baffling thing about AGE is that I can confirm via first-hand experience that Level 5 can make a drat good robot show. Seriously, watch Danball Senki, it is legitimately a good little Mecha show. And I'm not just making a stupid pun, it is honestly worth a watch.
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Apr 26, 2021 05:18
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Build Fighters is only about as good as AGE tbh.
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Apr 26, 2021 05:27
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Raxivace posted:Build Fighters is only about as good as AGE tbh. What the gently caress
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Apr 26, 2021 06:09
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RevolverDivider posted:What the gently caress The tbh stands for Total Bullshit Here, presumably.
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Apr 26, 2021 06:18
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if you include try in the scope of fighters that seems understandable
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Apr 26, 2021 06:39
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Sjs00 fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Apr 26, 2021 |
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Apr 26, 2021 07:22
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dogsicle posted:if you include try in the scope of fighters that seems understandable try at least had a few good fights
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Apr 26, 2021 07:36
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Age has a few good fights in the Second Gen and Memory of Eden has a fantastic final fight. Memory of Eden is actually pretty decent since it completely focuses on the two good characters in Age.
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Apr 26, 2021 07:45
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The main good thing about AGE will probably always be its mechanical designs
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Apr 26, 2021 08:06
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Omnicrom posted:AGE had a structural conceit to it that, if it had followed through, could easily have justified running for a full year. They did not do nearly enough with. When Banrise originally spoke to Hino about making AGE they were just looking for a game that'd sell a million units and he insisted that'd be impossible with any existing property and they had to give him an anime with a new AU if they wanted to sell that many. So he was made director of his own show, and originally envisioned 75+ episodes, which Banrise shot down and gave him a year (presumably due to broadcaster slots and poo poo). He wanted to use that extra time to give Asemu and Zeheart's schooldays up to 10 episodes of content, for instance. So it's probably a good thing he didn't get more episodes honestly, because there is no indication he would have made good use of them. As is, Hino really should not have been the shows director, because he'd never made an anime before and it shows. He should probably have been made a producer and given the directorial job to someone who knows how to make an anime, even if it was someone form Level 5 like Naohito Takahashi, the Danball Senki director. Or at least just made him a co-director with someone else who has experience directing anime given at least as much control as the other guy. ninjewtsu posted:try at least had a few good fights I would say that Try and AGE are both pretty much awful, and probably the worst shows that Gundam has produced (beyond maybe some SD stuff I haven't seen) for the simple reason that both were boring almost all the way through, as well as just being filled with really stupid poo poo and wasting some interesting concepts. Destiny is also awful for instance, and often held up as the worst of Gundam, but at least it had some decent episodes in the first stretch and was entertaining with it's stupidity. It definitely had a long run of boring episodes too, but there was some good stuff in the first dozen epsisodes. AGE and Try couldn't even make their dumb poo poo entertaining, and it was mostly just bafflingly stupid. Like, why did the Vagans stay at Mars despite nothing ever establishing why they couldn't move Second Moon all along if they'd wanted? Why was Zera Gins introduced in the closing moments of the penultimate episodes as Kio's rival, but never given any dialogue in the entire show? Why was the mysterious girl that Flit met as a kid while battling mysterious enemies never given any kind of past, or link to the enemy to humanize them, make him think twice about his view of them and/or cause drama etc. tsob fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Apr 26, 2021 |
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Apr 26, 2021 09:16
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RevolverDivider posted:Age has a few good fights in the Second Gen and Memory of Eden has a fantastic final fight. Memory of Eden is actually pretty decent since it completely focuses on the two good characters in Age. That's a very generous assessment. Memory of Eden is horribly structured, has only three characters who feel like characters, one of whom gets sidelined early, and I wasn't that impressed with the final fight when I watched it. It's not bad, once it gets to the fight proper, but the start is pretty much just beamspam, and the flow is a bit confused in the early stages of the scrap. It's detailed, and there are good moments (have to appreciate a good punch-through-a-punch) but I don't think I'd call it fantastic. Memory of Eden may be the best of Age, but that's a pretty damning assessment. tsob posted:I would say that Try and AGE are both pretty much awful, and probably the worst shows that Gundam has produced (beyond maybe some SD stuff I haven't seen) for the simple reason that both were boring almost all the way through, as well as just being filled with really stupid poo poo and wasting some interesting concepts. Destiny is also awful for instance, and often held up as the worst of Gundam, but at least it had some decent episodes in the first stretch and was entertaining with it's stupidity. It definitely had a long run of boring episodes too, but there was some good stuff in the first dozen epsisodes. AGE and Try couldn't even make their dumb poo poo entertaining, and it was mostly just bafflingly stupid. Like, why did the Vagans stay at Mars despite nothing ever establishing why they couldn't move Second Moon all along if they'd wanted? Why was Zera Gins introduced in the closing moments of the penultimate episodes as Kio's rival, but never given any dialogue in the entire show? Why was the mysterious girl that Flit met as a kid while battling mysterious enemies never given any kind of past, or link to the enemy to humanize them, make him think twice about his view of them and/or cause drama etc. The first Build Divers is down there too. At least Flit had a discernable personality. Nobody bothered to give Riku that memo. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Apr 26, 2021 |
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Apr 26, 2021 09:26
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I've been rewatching some of seed lately and I still don't understand what the whole story with Cagalli and Kira is. Like they were twins, but Kira got chosen to be experimented on and Cagalli didn't? Then, somehow, for whatever reason, Kira ended up with his adopted parents and Cagalli, somehow got adopted by some higher up at Orb? Just... How the hell did this all happen  .
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Apr 26, 2021 16:38
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From memory, Kira and Cagalli's biological father was the scientist behind the Ultimate Coordinator program and a massive scumbag who had Kira's embryo removed from his wife without her consent and plugged into his artificial womb tech. He was so obsessed creating a perfect Coordinator that he just didn't care about his other child which is why she was left as a Natural. I think he's also the guy who created Rau in exchange for funding to keep the UC program funded? From there on it's just Star Wars - Blue Cosmos assassinated the parents, but not before the mother managed to send infant Kira and Cagalli away to safety with her sister at Orb, at which point they raise the son as their own and give the daughter away to adoption.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:18
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Cagalli man what a roller coaster of a character she is. Originlally pitched as the strong independent woman and eventually she gets portrayed as such a weak and ineffectual leader she lets herself get cucked by a politician into a marriage that is only stopped by Jesus Yamato kidnapping her because she cannot do a drat thing for herself. Also she becomes such a liability on the battlefield (after originally being a god damned guerilla combatant leader/pilot) that they have to give her an invincible Strike unit. You type things out about SEED -> Destiny and god drat it sounds even worse than i remember it.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:41
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Cagalli man what a roller coaster of a character she is. Originlally pitched as the strong independent woman and eventually she gets portrayed as such a weak and ineffectual leader she lets herself get cucked by a politician into a marriage that is only stopped by Jesus Yamato kidnapping her because she cannot do a drat thing for herself. Also she becomes such a liability on the battlefield (after originally being a god damned guerilla combatant leader/pilot) that they have to give her an invincible Strike unit. An invincible Strike unit that she gives away for someone else to pilot, because she's too poo poo to make any decent use of it. So Mwu pilots it after being cleared of his brainwashing, and nobody mentions or cares about all the warcrimes he committed as a Char. Including him. I don't know if Neo is the most token Char in the franchise, but he's certainly a contender. Lady Char from Try being one of the other prime candidates.
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Apr 26, 2021 17:59
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tsob posted:Lady Char from Try being one of the other prime candidates. I feel like she's gone so far she's crossed another boundary and isn't a Char at all. Like the entirety of her Char-ness is "has a mask".
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Apr 26, 2021 18:39
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