|
I actually like time stories where the point ends up being that there's a version of you that did something incredibly heroic but you yourself will never know because the inciting chain events never happened for you.
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 09:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 22:33 |
|
|
multijoe posted:Nah the writers were lazy hacks too for the most part, Ron Moore left in disgust after a couple of episodes because they sucked so much poo poo The story that he tells about how he got brought on for Equinox (which is still one of my favorite Voyager stories) and how just that one two-parter and how they approached it was enough to ruin Voyager for him is so sad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 09:37
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:The story that he tells about how he got brought on for Equinox (which is still one of my favorite Voyager stories) and how just that one two-parter and how they approached it was enough to ruin Voyager for him is so sad. And then he made Battlestar Galactica as a gently caress you to Voyager's wasted potential and Rick Berman's dickheaded mismanagement of it and wound up ruining it himself and squandering its potential through mismanagement because all of this has happened before and all of this will happen again...
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 12:09
|
|
|
I can't even remember which Star Trek thread the EXPERIENCE BIJ gangtags came from, was it this one? Does anyone at all know if I can get that back? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 13:09
|
|
|
Sanguinia posted:The story that he tells about how he got brought on for Equinox (which is still one of my favorite Voyager stories) and how just that one two-parter and how they approached it was enough to ruin Voyager for him is so sad. So, this makes the Pegasus arc of BSG another layer of his grand revenge against the squandering of Voyager?
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 13:14
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:And then he made Battlestar Galactica as a gently caress you to Voyager's wasted potential and Rick Berman's dickheaded mismanagement of it and wound up ruining it himself and squandering its potential through mismanagement because all of this has happened before and all of this will happen again... Was it mismanagement? I never really looked up what went wrong with s3 and 4, but at least from viewing it, it was just the story they wanted to tell for those seasons was horrible and counter to the first two.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 14:40
|
|
|
I just watched TNG's 'Frame of Mind' and I'm blown away by the writing of the episode and the acting chops of Jonathan Frakes. What an absolute mindfuck that was, such a good ep. Could have easily fit as an episode of The Twilight Zone too! John F Bennett fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Apr 30, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 19:39
|
|
|
Yeah, I like Frame of Mind and I’m always surprised when people either hate it or are totally indifferent to it. It’s solid and Frakes is great in it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 21:32
|
|
|
Disheveled Frakes makes me so uneasy. All it takes is some slightly mussed up hair. See also: Parallels.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 21:40
|
|
|
Also Schisms. The Templin Institute did a video on the Galaxy class, if you need a reminder on how it’s the best.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 21:54
|
|
|
Frame of Mind is like, my second favorite TNG episode. I unironically love the early 90s video toaster shatter effect.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 23:50
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:Yeah, I like Frame of Mind and I’m always surprised when people either hate it or are totally indifferent to it. It’s solid and Frakes is great in it. I hate Frame of Mind largely because of personal experiences with gaslighting and other psychological abuse. However I don’t think it’s a bad episode, in fact I think it’s done quite well, especially with Riker going to dismantle the play set at the end. For me personally it’s just an episode I skip.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 00:38
|
|
|
Kwatz posted:I hate Frame of Mind largely because of personal experiences with gaslighting and other psychological abuse. However I don’t think it’s a bad episode, in fact I think it’s done quite well, especially with Riker going to dismantle the play set at the end. For me personally it’s just an episode I skip. Same for same. I like making other people who need to understand those things and lack direct experience with those things watch Frame of Mind!
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 00:54
|
|
|
Darkmateria of Picard Song fame has a much less famous Frame of Mind song as well. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hSF48WK6SFY
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 00:59
|
|
|
Take Me Out to the Holosuite is a delightful episode. The low stakes are a nice change of pace from episode dealing with a galaxy wide war, unraveling military alliances, and conflicts between alien gods causing weird none linear causality loops and mental breakdowns caused enabling the death of millions of your own people (god sakes season 7 is busy). There some good bits of comedy like Nog tagging out the runner who did not touch home base and Worf saying "death to the opposition." Also the victory being the realization the the Vulcan team will when but the could never enjoy playing the game was great. Edit: *Worf side_burned fucked around with this message at 01:30 on May 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 01:27
|
|
|
side_burned posted:
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 01:29
|
|
|
On a whim decided to watch Meld and Basics. So good. I bet you could show someone half a dozen episodes and make them believe Voyager is the best Trek.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 03:52
|
|
|
Even at its absolute best, there’s still this kind of low effort malaise to Voyager. With a few exceptions the cast has basically zero chemistry, so every episode lives or dies by the strength of its plot. Voyager doesn’t have many Move Along Homes or Fistful of Datas where a bad episode can be somewhat salvaged by little character moments.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 04:00
|
|
|
Yeah, TNG is very character based, so you enjoy watching whatever they get up to, even if the plot is a little meh. Voyager is the exact opposite, where the characters are mostly fairly empty vessels to move the plot along.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 04:07
|
|
|
Brawnfire posted:I can't even remember which Star Trek thread the EXPERIENCE BIJ gangtags came from, was it this one? I made the BIJ tag for the Modern Trek thread originally but it's also for this thread too. Big Mean Jerk posted:Even at its absolute best, there’s still this kind of low effort malaise to Voyager. With a few exceptions the cast has basically zero chemistry, so every episode lives or dies by the strength of its plot. Bride of Chaotica! is Voyager's Fistful of Datas, except it's actually kind of really good.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 05:16
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:Even at its absolute best, there’s still this kind of low effort malaise to Voyager. With a few exceptions the cast has basically zero chemistry, so every episode lives or dies by the strength of its plot. The slow gas leak is a perfect way to describe both the cast of Voyager and also what it feels like to watch it. I dunno, also something about the lighting of the show always just felt off to me.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 05:45
|
|
|
I've been trying to watch Voyager again because I felt like I was being unfair to it and it's like, nope, it's exactly how I remembered it. Janeway, Tuvok, and the Doctor (and Seven eventually I guess) are the only characters worth a drat and every other character on the show is hatefully bad in one or more ways. And Janeway only manages to be good because Kate Mulgrew turned in some really great performances for an awful and inconsistently written character. It's also the techno-babbliest Trek by a loving mile.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 05:55
|
|
|
I've been watching Enterprise lately and it isn't quite as bad as I remember. It is pretty bland, but in a serviceable way.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 06:14
|
|
|
An amusing thing about Star Trek is that the computer consoles don't have any logic to them, they're just pretty patterns. This becomes hilarious when an actor pretends he is reading something off a console and the camera shows nothing changing on the console. An example is this still from Gambit Part II. In this scene, the character is searching the ship's computer for a hidden message that Picard has sent to the Enterprise. She confidently says "She's right!", but nothing changed on that computer display. There's a similar scene in Gambit where the alien doctor notices that Riker has regained consciousness. The camera gives us a direct view of his computer panel, and its static. Kurzon fucked around with this message at 12:27 on May 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 12:20
|
|
|
Voyager's best episode is pretty low bar compared to DS9 or TNG's best. I can tell everyone was frustrated by the show on set, cause it comes through in the performances hard. Enterprise never seems to know what it is doing, and even its good concepts end up really boring. The xindi expedition is one of them, attempting to set a time limit and make them desperate, but in practice, it just is so uninteresting. I remember like the 3 episodes of the whole season and even then, I they weren't that engaging. I know there are actual voyager and enterprise apologists that try to say it was the best trek, but I really can't see it. I can't see it ever approaching a good DS9 episode or an well done TNG.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 12:27
|
|
|
The Voyager episode where Nelix starts a shipwide breakfast TV show and gets obsessed with investigative journalism is a bad episode. Not only is it full of liberal wank-material about the "power of the free press", but it makes no sense as TNG has established television as a media died a long time ago, and yet Neelix apparently gets the idea from his crewmates, or somehow is familiar with it and it's tropes. It's sort of funny that the episode can't quite decide if it wants to cater more to the liberal sensibility of the benevolent security state or the one about the free press, with Nelix first reporting his findings about a possible spy directly to security, being told to let them handle it, nobly deciding to go "gently caress that" and bungling it, and then compromising his journalistic ethics by willingly collaborating with security, using his reporting to flush out the spy, ending with him killing the guy himself. thotsky fucked around with this message at 12:42 on May 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 12:40
|
|
|
Fistful of Datas is one of the best episodes. It was like the second episode I showed my wife to get her hooked on TNG. It's pure fun.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 12:51
|
|
|
Xinlum posted:Fistful of Datas is one of the best episodes. It was like the second episode I showed my wife to get her hooked on TNG. It's pure fun. I hope Brent Spiner had fun with it too, it really shows the range of the actor. Must have been nice for him to finally be able to do something like that.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 12:55
|
|
|
Sash! posted:I've been watching Enterprise lately and it isn't quite as bad as I remember. It is pretty bland, but in a serviceable way. Yeah, I will defend Enterprise to the death as a solid 6/10 Star Trek show. It's totally okay if you've exhausted all the good Trek and still want to watch more. Voyager just feels like all the worst parts of Trek wrapped up in a highly mediocre package.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 14:54
|
|
|
Xinlum posted:Fistful of Datas is one of the best episodes. It was like the second episode I showed my wife to get her hooked on TNG. It's pure fun. Marina Sirtis playing Troi playing Durango is great too. Man, they really wasted her. Both of her. That should've been Troi's thing; every time somebody goes into the Holodeck, Troi's there, going all-out on a character.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 15:21
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:I made the BIJ tag for the Modern Trek thread originally but it's also for this thread too. Thanks, the mods got back to me so now I'm back in BIJ baby!
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 16:12
|
|
|
I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, by why do they call it a "transporter" instead of "teleporter"? "Teleporter" sounds more specific.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 16:25
|
|
|
Probably just because it sounded newer and different and maybe more sciency in the 1960s.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 16:30
|
|
|
Kurzon posted:I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, by why do they call it a "transporter" instead of "teleporter"? "Teleporter" sounds more specific. It specifically only does (relatively) short range 
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 16:36
|
|
|
Kurzon posted:I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, by why do they call it a "transporter" instead of "teleporter"? "Teleporter" sounds more specific. Kibayasu posted:Probably just because it sounded newer and different and maybe more sciency in the 1960s. Yeah, my guess would be that "teleport" has connotations of wizards and magic while "transport" sounds more machine-y.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 16:37
|
|
|
The idea and word of teleportation already definitely existed. I’m not sure anyone has ever spoken about why the transporter is called a transporter. It may have been an ad hoc name. The original pitch for Trek didn’t include the concept of teleportation at all: if they wanted to get the cast onto a planet, the ship would land there. They only abandoned this and came up with beaming because it was a much more feasible effect. Kibayasu posted:Probably just because it sounded newer and different and maybe more sciency in the 1960s. Honestly it seems more like the opposite of this. “Teleporter” sounds exotic and weird. “Transporter” is more prosaic or normal-sounding, like the kind of thing you might call it if you used it everyday.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 16:38
|
|
|
By “newer” I mostly just meant “newer than teleporter” which had been a thing in sci-fi for a long time. Sounding more mundane may have been a thing they wanted as well.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 16:52
|
|
|
Axe-man posted:Enterprise never seems to know what it is doing, and even its good concepts end up really boring. The xindi expedition is one of them, attempting to set a time limit and make them desperate, but in practice, it just is so uninteresting. I remember like the 3 episodes of the whole season and even then, I they weren't that engaging. The problem with the Xindi season is that it’s still 24 full episodes, so everything either gets repetitive or blurs together. I’m an Enterprise apologist and aside from the general arc of the season I can still only really remember a handful of standout episodes. The Trip clone, the alternate future NX-01, the other alternate future where they fail, and the Detroit episode where they order burgers. It’s not a bad season and incorporating some serialization was a good idea, but there’s just so much filler. You could easily tell the same story in a 9-12 episode arc and then spend the rest of the season addressing the aftermath or moving beyond it entirely. There’s a reason heavily serialized seasons nowadays are usually only 6-13 episodes. I really think modern Trek should adopt season’s 4 mini-arc format because it’s a nice happy medium between TNG-style “purely episodic where everything has to return to the status quo at the end” storytelling and Disco/Picard’s “oh gently caress the entire season is one convoluted plot so we have to be on our game 100% in every episode or else it’s a mess” format. Even DS9 knew you had to space out your larger plot beats and break up the monotony with bottle episodes.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 16:57
|
|
|
Honestly, I really think heavily serialized stories should last tops 4-5 episodes, and even that is stretching it. Last decade we really hit an era where “woah we can make a 50 hour movie” became a novel reality, but it’s usually boring and stupid as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 17:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 22:33 |
|
|
HD DAD posted:Honestly, I really think heavily serialized stories should last tops 4-5 episodes, and even that is stretching it. Last decade we really hit an era where “woah we can make a 50 hour movie” became a novel reality, but it’s usually boring and stupid as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 17:28
|
|
