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An insane mind posted:Maybe you guys could try a friendly socialist? Maybe someone really into making preserves? It went extremely poorly
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May 4, 2021 13:47
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Communist Thoughts posted:It went extremely poorly Though only in one of the two trials.
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May 4, 2021 13:50
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genericnick posted:Though only in one of the two trials. Only in so much as losing narrowly is better than losing massively
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May 4, 2021 13:52
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the narrow loss also was against a haunted scarecrow running on a platform of "steal houses from my elderly voters"
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May 4, 2021 13:54
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An insane mind posted:Maybe you guys could try a friendly socialist? Maybe someone really into making preserves? Living up to your username I see. Don't be silly
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May 4, 2021 13:54
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corbyn failed because he didn't have the will or the ability to purge the labour right and so was sabotaged internally basically you need someone with the guts to actually throw the blairites and other assorted scumbags out for good
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May 4, 2021 13:56
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Communist Thoughts posted:the narrow loss also was against a haunted scarecrow running on a platform of "steal houses from my elderly voters" I mean the huge loss was against this: 
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May 4, 2021 14:00
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genericnick posted:I mean the huge loss was against this: british voters LOVE this poo poo afaik corbyn didnt do anything like that at all and he got owned harder than anyone thought possible not a single photo of him driving a big train with a conductors hat through a big piggy bank that says FATCAT BANKERS
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May 4, 2021 14:12
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British votors love what the unbiased media tells them to love.
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May 4, 2021 14:21
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Don’t think purging the PLP of shite would have changed the thoroughly hostile narrative landscape enough to make an electoral difference. But, and this is important, it would have been really funny
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May 4, 2021 14:28
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Really shouldn’t have backed down on Margaret Hodge eg. Not talking about how things look to the media, just about natural justice
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May 4, 2021 14:30
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Communist Thoughts posted:british voters LOVE this poo poo And how are the rage pensioners supposed to learn about that great photo op? Will they see the picture in the Times/Daily Mail/Guardian?
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May 4, 2021 14:32
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genericnick posted:And how are the rage pensioners supposed to learn about that great photo op? Will they see the picture in the Times/Daily Mail/Guardian? On BBC news? no
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May 4, 2021 14:34
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I seem to remember seeing a tweet from a media person along the lines of "labour under kier have regained their visibility privileges that corbyn didn't deserve" or something, anybody know which one I'm talking about?
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May 4, 2021 14:37
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maybe Corbyn could have posed with a list of election promises that he would 100% uphold. "carved in stone", you could say
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May 4, 2021 14:37
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Shogi posted:Don’t think purging the PLP of shite would have changed the thoroughly hostile narrative landscape enough to make an electoral difference. But, and this is important, it would have been really funny yeah, thats why corbo leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, on top of being a massive flop the big lesson the left hopefully learned from corbyn is that the labour party is an obstacle to progressive politics not a vehicle for it, and also just plain incompetent. its a place for right wingers to get sinecures and make media and business contacts corbyn either knew and did nothing or is genuinely oblivious but as you say the second big lesson was just how much weight the media can put down on the scales, i do remember corbyn being asked about this when he was just in the running to become leader and his response was "nobody reads the papers anymore"... welp!
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May 4, 2021 14:44
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The problem with abandoning the Labour party is that we also have over a century of history of extra parliamentary leftists failing to achieve much In reality its basically like when a bunch of American leftists asked some North Vietnamese for advice and the advice was "you should try everything at the same time and see what works"
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May 4, 2021 14:49
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MikeCrotch posted:The problem with abandoning the Labour party is that we also have over a century of history of extra parliamentary leftists failing to achieve much I mean, that's basically what the right does.
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May 4, 2021 14:52
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Communist Thoughts posted:yeah, thats why corbo leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, on top of being a massive flop I can tell you from a country with a proportional election system that getting a new party off the ground is in no way easier than taking over an old one. Unless you have Oligarch money and/or friendly media conglomerates. Then it's easy.
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May 4, 2021 14:54
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genericnick posted:I can tell you from a country with a proportional election system that getting a new party off the ground is in no way easier than taking over an old one. Unless you have Oligarch money and/or friendly media conglomerates. Then it's easy. MikeCrotch posted:The problem with abandoning the Labour party is that we also have over a century of history of extra parliamentary leftists failing to achieve much yeah for sure i agree with both of these i don't really see a "likely" way in which britain is allowed to vote for a decent party whether its labour or new, and if they are they will likely just overwhelmingly reject it again like the news tells them to in the mean time sure go wild try everything
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May 4, 2021 15:00
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my short term political plan is
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May 4, 2021 15:01
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the uk needs a Terror
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May 4, 2021 15:06
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I think environmentalism is going to become a huge huge deal in the future - the existence of XR and the fact that it's capable of pulling in lots of otherwise politically inactive middle class people should be a good indicator. Same with the greens possibly outright winning in Germany in the next election. Problem is that current Labour leadership has mentally jiujutsued themselves into trying to only appeal to Dave from Workington who thinks kids should get black lung on national service so they learn respect Any party who can actually come up with a response to the climate crisis while avoiding getting absolutely creamed by the press might actually have a chance z really the story of the UK is liberals and conservatives teaming up to totally crush the left, with only conservatives able to actually pick up the pieces in the aftermath
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May 4, 2021 15:07
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Communist Thoughts posted:yeah for sure i agree with both of these friendship ended with labour, personally I'm going to go try my luck with sinn féin
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May 4, 2021 15:07
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Also it would suck but also be funny if Scotland became independent and the SNP broke up, only for the Tories to win the first election
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May 4, 2021 15:09
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A lot of the environmentalists are Tories already and there's nothing about British Toryism that precludes them just pretending to be green
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May 4, 2021 15:11
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like if labour centrists were ever capable of admitting they've made a mistake then they might have a shot at winning an election sometime soon. but they don't
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May 4, 2021 15:12
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Jose posted:the uk needs a Terror
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May 4, 2021 15:15
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MikeCrotch posted:Also it would suck but also be funny if Scotland became independent and the SNP broke up, only for the Tories to win the first election even if the SNP fractured into a half dozen parties you wouldn't get the fptp spoiler effect that might allow that in a westminster election
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May 4, 2021 15:24
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gonadic io posted:I seem to remember seeing a tweet from a media person along the lines of "labour under kier have regained their visibility privileges that corbyn didn't deserve" or something, anybody know which one I'm talking about? That describes the way that most of the Uk media establishment think, so it doesn't narrow it down much I'm afraid. To have any right to be heard at all, a politician must first agree to limit their plans and policies to the very narrow window that's currently permitted. You can't exaggerate just how mad it made many people in the media that Corbyn openly articulated that things could change and become better.
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May 4, 2021 15:36
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Jose posted:like if labour centrists were ever capable of admitting they've made a mistake then they might have a shot at winning an election sometime soon. but they don't Checking Twitter and if we're seeing these levels of cope 2 days before the elections have even happened, gently caress knows what they're going to be like on Friday lol.
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May 4, 2021 15:37
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MikeCrotch posted:I think environmentalism is going to become a huge huge deal in the future - the existence of XR and the fact that it's capable of pulling in lots of otherwise politically inactive middle class people should be a good indicator. Same with the greens possibly outright winning in Germany in the next election. Lmao
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May 4, 2021 16:34
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basically, we need to take over the Lib Dems,
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May 4, 2021 16:38
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Venomous posted:basically, we need to take over the Lib Dems, I genuinely think the Greens' party structure makes them vulnerable to some hardcore entryism. More vulnerable than Labour, at least.
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May 4, 2021 16:41
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I'm glad XR groups are moving onto smaller, more targeted property damaging stunts because it means proper eco terrorism is coming and that's something I can get behind.
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May 4, 2021 18:11
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The green right would be as ineffectual stopping infiltration as the labour left were to wrecking. but most of the green right are tories shamed by their kids with no actual beliefs worth sticking around for.
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May 4, 2021 18:15
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I guess the issue with a new left wing party or entryisted greens is that asking them "what is your opinion of Israel? " will still be 4x supereffective but succ labour will still be around to soak even more votes away
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May 4, 2021 18:25
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Communist Thoughts posted:I guess the issue with a new left wing party or entryisted greens is that asking them After the HRW report, you can just go 'it's an apartheid state, and defending it is defending apartheid, so gently caress off, racist'. Making the pro-Israel right look like hypocritical thugs and idiots is no more beyond the ken of the left than any other part of their project - they just need to be prepared to get sufficiently vicious and nasty.
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May 4, 2021 18:37
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Communist Thoughts posted:yeah, thats why corbo leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, on top of being a massive flop lol just watch the news, all they go on about is what the newspapers are saying that day
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May 4, 2021 18:39
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Darth Walrus posted:After the HRW report, you can just go 'it's an apartheid state, and defending it is defending apartheid, so gently caress off, racist'. Making the pro-Israel right look like hypocritical thugs and idiots is no more beyond the ken of the left than any other part of their project - they just need to be prepared to get sufficiently vicious and nasty. Livingstone I presume.
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May 4, 2021 18:41
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