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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1390691539224080390?s=21 When the revolution comes any politician using the words 'lesson' and 'learn' in the same sentence needs to get the wall.
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May 7, 2021 19:17
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1390691539224080390?s=21 never stopping, never even beginning twirl labour? more like labe... labe her
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May 7, 2021 19:18
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Darth Walrus posted:https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1390691539224080390?s=21 
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May 7, 2021 19:20
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I know a few here in Wales voting Labour for the first time thanks to Drakeford. They have handled lockdowns/opening so much better than England.
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May 7, 2021 19:21
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il_cornuto posted:Early results from Wales suggest Labour have done better here than elsewhere. The Caerphilly MS was on the radio making it clear he thought this was Mark Drakeford's win specifically. I think a "Welsh Labour under Drakeford does OK, English Labour under Starmer does terribly" result could make for a pretty strong narrative. Have to see how the rest of the results look though. Mark has come out of the pandemic looking really good. His 'explain things simply based on evidence and as if the person on BBC breakfast was a loving moron' has come across pretty well I thought
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May 7, 2021 19:22
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Drakeford is also a very approachable guy who LISTENS, not up his own rear end like some of them. I was at a couple of Welsh labour policy forum workshops as a CLP rep before I quit the party where he was also in the workshops.
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May 7, 2021 19:26
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History Comes Inside! posted:Starmenfreude Lol Lmao Thread is good today
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May 7, 2021 19:27
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https://twitter.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1390730905866674181 Hahaha just hook today into my veins. Wonder if we'll be seeing less of "A New Leadership" in the future? The quotes are excellent too, he's focus-grouped to gently caress and the focus groups still hate him. Tough to see how these results don't fatally undermine his leadership even if he staggers on from here. It's also excellent that the one area where Labour didn't get beaten to poo poo is Wales, run by the last Corbyn-era lefty to remain in post who Starmer clearly would've liked to replace.
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May 7, 2021 19:29
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im not saying keir starmer is a dog nonce but he is, provably in a court of law, a dog nonce
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May 7, 2021 19:30
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bets on keith being on i'm a celebrity get me out of here this autumn?  the useless scrotum
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May 7, 2021 19:31
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Answers Me posted:Peter Mandelson on BBC News saying that the Labour party has lost touch with voters in tHe nOrTh 'not because of class or economic reasons but because of """"social and cultural reasons"""" '. It's a shame to see him not get pressed on what that actually means because I can't see what he's referring to apart from 'they haven't done enough racisms'. Contemptible individual. Your post are the social and cultural reasons he's talking about.
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May 7, 2021 19:32
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Gonzo McFee posted:I'm sad for what could have been with Corbyn but by god I'm enjoying the Labour right deal with this monkey paw poo poo. the labour right doesn't give a poo poo about how well labour does just that it's not opposing neoliberalism
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May 7, 2021 19:33
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https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1390729122125602823?s=20 Good thread here with breakdowns of lots of polling around reasons why people voted and didn't vote for Labour.
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May 7, 2021 19:34
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Keir needs his cummies asap
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May 7, 2021 19:35
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Since I'm American and my understanding of everything is thus binary, did Brexit blowing up a bunch of industries and people's livelihoods matter much at all? I know it was a social issue that cut deep across all party lines, but it seems like there was a pretty solid "I told you so" moment about it but the party that pushed it seems to have been rewarded.
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May 7, 2021 19:36
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Labour, as in the Labour movement, hasn't held power since 1979. It could have held power in the 90s, but the Party buckled under internal pressure from backroom boys and very openly became the 'heirs of Thatcher' ie not Thatcherites explicitly but a clear downstream interpretation of the world she set up. After 2019, lessons should have been learned, but both wings of the Party still believe they have the right answers and that the other wing is sabotaging them. Because both sides believe this, they do indeed sabotage one another, although neither actually has the right answer. Labour doesn't have a base in the media. Like out of all the papers it has one sure supporter, The Mirror. Guardian has consistently over the years sided with Liberals/SDP/Lib Dems when push comes to shove. This makes getting the message out incredibly difficult, the only time they have successfully got the message out in recent years was in 2017 when May poo poo the bed so badly with her manifesto that she had the media, who had slaughtered Corbyn's manifesto, leaked a few days before, as "worse than 1983's 'longest suicide note in history'", instead turn on her. This all came down to money, as her plans for elderly care would have liquidated the chattering class' property wealth. Some of it does come down to 'idpol' but not in the sense people think. Most working-class people I sincerely believe aren't against minorities, whether ethnic or sexual. They are against however a parochial, hand-washing, liberal approach to it, which is to tell the white working-classes they are guilty. The white middle-classes cast the working-classes as bigots to absolve themselves, despite the working-classes having multi-ethnic neighbours, whereas white middle-classes intentionally ghettoise themselves. The Labour Party consistently aligns itself with the middle-class interpretation of race relations, and telling the average voter they should feel guilty is poison, not least when those voters live in some of the most deprived areas of the country and have done sod all, bar not frequent an Islington Eritrean restaurant and write about it for The Guardian. Brexit ties into that imo for the reason above more than any actual politics on Europe. The Remainers have spent 5 years basing opposition to Brexit as a moral position, that Leavers are a rotten racist sort, while they take support of a business cartel to South Korean stan culture levels and ignore you know, letting thousands of Africans drown in the Med, which the EU chose to do when it refused to continue funding Italian state rescues and patrols. People are tribal and once you break the taboo there's no going back. There's a lot of people out there who could never, ever bring themselves to vote Tory, but they've had 15 years of being offered Tory surrogates like UKIP and Brexit Party, who both offered populism and an alternative while not going into so much detail it became some profound choice to vote for them. Again both parties were painted as 'evil'. Once you've half-broken the taboo, you can break the taboo properly, which they did in 2019 voting for Tories. None of them are going to turn around and say in 2024 'that was a one off' or ever feel they morally can't vote Tory again. Because of the nature of many of these seats and councils, who have been Labour... forever, there's a genuine feeling Labour are the party of power and the Tories are the opposition. The reason the Tories can pick up votes 11 years into power is because actually these places have never, ever voted Tory. For most you have to go back to abolished seats that covered the area in like the 20s to get a non-Labour MP. Then there's the generational shift. Again, we haven't had the Labour Movement in power since 1979. Anyone under 40 has never lived even as a baby through one of those governments. 40 years of unchallenged neoliberalism has changed the sentiments on society and what one even wants. So this becomes a desire to shift society rather than politics even. Like people forget when Blair got into power his sincere desire was to turn the UK into a one party state, with New Labour floating where public opinion went, he didn't win an ideological battle-winning power, he promised not to rock the boat. He promised to do as people wished. If you're British you'll remember there were several bad train crashes in the late 90s / early 00s, because his brains trusts were telling him the public didn't care about rail funding lol. The Tories reacted to Blair by bringing in Cameron, a Blair clone, and saying what the public wanted to hear. The Tories had changed. Hug a hoodie. etc. They got into power and held on to it and promised to be whatever the public wanted. The state can't have two 'Parties of Power' and the Tories pipped Labour to it in 2010. Labour need to figure out a new message for a country that has had 40 years of neoliberalism being the status quo, and they can't rehash the promise of the 90s which got them into power, of 'we will do what the Tories did but without the sleaze' because nobody cares anymore, or rather, neoliberalism has rotted their sense of social obligation so much they care on a personal level but not a political one. There's a lot of hard truths and Labour's factions won't address any of them, insisting they have the right answer. In fact it's both. 'we lost 2019 because of Starmer's Brexit policy!!' maybe, but I know several people who left Labour 'emotionally' in 2016 when Corbyn, on record as thinking the EU are anti-democratic crooks, campaigned to Remain. By 2019 they were voting Brexit Party or Tory. I mention this as it's a hard truth that both sides faltered but neither will acknowledge their own responsibility. tl;dr hostile press, neoliberalism, societal shift, wrong (middle-class not working-class) brand of 'social justice', and pure hubris from all the factions in the Party. Labour haven't 'learned lessons' because they all think they are the group to teach the lesson and that the problem is other factions won't listen.
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May 7, 2021 19:38
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Grondoth posted:Since I'm American and my understanding of everything is thus binary, did Brexit blowing up a bunch of industries and people's livelihoods matter much at all? I know it was a social issue that cut deep across all party lines, but it seems like there was a pretty solid "I told you so" moment about it but the party that pushed it seems to have been rewarded. also it's all going to be blamed on Covid anyway
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May 7, 2021 19:41
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Grondoth posted:Since I'm American and my understanding of everything is thus binary, did Brexit blowing up a bunch of industries and people's livelihoods matter much at all? I know it was a social issue that cut deep across all party lines, but it seems like there was a pretty solid "I told you so" moment about it but the party that pushed it seems to have been rewarded. The people who were most keen on brexit don't work, they're old and already set for the rest of their lives. It makes no difference to them whatsoever whether the rest of us eat poo poo because of it.
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May 7, 2021 19:42
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WhatEvil posted:https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1390729122125602823?s=20 Ah yes, Boris Johnson, noted competent, sensible person. God british voters are staggeringly wrong about everything...
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May 7, 2021 19:43
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Welsh Labour hold Newport East in the Senedd and increase their vote share. 9,229 last time round 10,899 this time round. Good to see the UKIP vote collapse 4,333 last time round 368 this time round. Turn out was only 38% though.
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May 7, 2021 19:44
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OwlFancier posted:The people who were most keen on brexit don't work, they're old and already set for the rest of their lives. It makes no difference to them whatsoever whether the rest of us eat poo poo because of it. i dunno, seems like it would absolutely make a difference to them, as making 'the other' suffer is something they greatly enjoy
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May 7, 2021 19:45
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PawParole posted:Most working-class people I sincerely believe aren't against minorities, whether ethnic or sexual. They are against however a parochial, hand-washing, liberal approach to it, which is to tell the white working-classes they are guilty. The white middle-classes cast the working-classes as bigots to absolve themselves, despite the working-classes having multi-ethnic neighbours, whereas white middle-classes intentionally ghettoise themselves. The Labour Party consistently aligns itself with the middle-class interpretation of race relations, and telling the average voter they should feel guilty is poison, When, and in what way, has Labour told the 'white working-class' that they should feel guilty? Because this sounds like columnist bullshit intended to mean 'Labour need to stop talking about/calling out racism because it might upset the WhItE wOrKiNg ClaSs [who are racist]'
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May 7, 2021 19:46
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PawParole posted:Labour haven't 'learned lessons' because they all think they are the group to teach the lesson and that the problem is other factions won't listen.
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May 7, 2021 19:48
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jabby posted:When, and in what way, has Labour told the 'white working-class' that they should feel guilty? It almost doesn't matter if they have, as long as the perception is there. And PawPatrol isn't wrong to suggest that the perception is there - the nominally "left" aligned media pushing Brexit > Racist line, online attitudes spilling out of twitter and so on. I'm honestly not sure how to change that.
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May 7, 2021 19:56
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OwlFancier posted:The people who were most keen on brexit don't work, they're old and already set for the rest of their lives. It makes no difference to them whatsoever whether the rest of us eat poo poo because of it. When I was growing up, I remember reading the governor of the Bank of England Eddie George saying that the north needed to suffer job losses to preserve the prosperity of the south. I don't know what made me angrier; the fact that he said it, or the fact that everyone seemed to be treating it as a good thing. I can absolutely see how anger like that festers, is weaponised into anti eu sentiment, and is then inflamed further post-brexit when dickhead journos start turning up in your back yard to go on racism safari and ignore every other issue that hosed you over the last 40 years.
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May 7, 2021 19:56
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Hello from Kent! https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1390732314670469122 https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1390721883016998917 Dartford's UKIP voters decided to switch to....Green? 
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May 7, 2021 19:58
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Grondoth posted:Since I'm American and my understanding of everything is thus binary, did Brexit blowing up a bunch of industries and people's livelihoods matter much at all? I know it was a social issue that cut deep across all party lines, but it seems like there was a pretty solid "I told you so" moment about it but the party that pushed it seems to have been rewarded. The absolute worst pearl-clutching doom-mongering predictions of those who were anti-Brexit (and which dominated most mass- and social-media coverage of Brexit on both sides of the issue before and after the referendum) haven't happened. Aircraft aren't falling from the skies, the entire southeast of England isn't literally gridlocked with lorries, the supermarkets still have food on the shelves, the lights are still on. That sort of thing. The major snags were sorted out or are (seen to be) being renegotiated. So it's easy for a lot of people to see Brexit as having been a success. The government and the media will happily blame any fallout on the dastardly Europeans 'punishing' plucky Britain, so to an extent even the problems that are acknowledged give the Tories a boost from their voter base, which loving loves jingoism and sabre-rattling at foreigners - see how turgidly aroused large parts of the media and conservative twitter became yesterday when two tiny Royal Navy ships with a couple of machine guns on them went and lurked off the French coast to observe a fishing rights dispute that was actually almost nothing to do with the UK. The much-publicised "told you so" moments, while they seem dramatic, are all part of a slow-burning process. In reality Brexit was never going to cause the entire economy to implode overnight, but it's going to be a continual burden making things a little bit more difficult and expensive for everyone. A large part of the electorate that voted for Brexit (and is now voting for the Tories) are retired or otherwise on fixed incomes. Even if Brexit went badly, they'd be immune from the actual, material effects so all they get out of it is the satisfaction of 'being out of the EU'. The cultural and social effects. And all this is happening against the background of the pandemic, which has massively disrupted normal life and frozen large parts of the economy. So many Brexit effects are null and void, and any that do register can easily be dismissed as part of the pandemic. We've already had empty shelves, people losing their jobs, businesses collapsing and so on. Had Brexit impacted against normal life the effects would have been more noticeable and harder to dismiss but in the situation we're in now it has made precious little actual difference.
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May 7, 2021 20:01
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https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1390739030111883267?s=19
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May 7, 2021 20:03
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkuWrmxN7hg
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May 7, 2021 20:05
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PawParole posted:wrong (middle-class not working-class) brand of 'social justice'
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May 7, 2021 20:07
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He’s just way too nice for politics
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May 7, 2021 20:13
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G1mby posted:It almost doesn't matter if they have, as long as the perception is there. And PawPatrol isn't wrong to suggest that the perception is there - the nominally "left" aligned media pushing Brexit > Racist line, online attitudes spilling out of twitter and so on. I'm honestly not sure how to change that. The perception is there because of what I said, some people want Labour to stop talking about racism and one way to achieve that is to imply being anti-racist is some kind of slight against the "white working class". The only thing Labour need to do about it is ignore those people or call them out for their own racism.
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May 7, 2021 20:36
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Bardeh posted:Dartford's UKIP voters decided to switch to....Green?
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May 7, 2021 20:38
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SNP might be denied an overall majority by like 20 votes in Dumbartion https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1390751969552261127 edit: 1 hour before results: 'this will be very tight' 30 minutes before results: 'a majority you can count on your fingers and toes, regardless of who wins' results: 'Ms Baillie increased her majority from 109 to 1,483, a majority of 3.9%.' Apraxin fucked around with this message at 20:49 on May 7, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 20:39
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It ended up not even being that close in Dumbarton. Don't know where the 20 vote thing was coming from but it was all over twitter. SNP should have run a stronger candidate tbh.
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May 7, 2021 20:48
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A parliament needs a good villain, glad Jackie Baillie won. No thats not blood in my mouth it's victory wine.
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May 7, 2021 20:56
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So what do we know about Joanne Anderson, the new Liverpool mayor? I know Starmer hosed over everyone from the original shortlist for being too left-wing, so I don't hold high hopes, but is she just one of his allies?
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May 7, 2021 21:03
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Rentoul Assisted Speedrun PASOK - 100% https://twitter.com/emlynsshoes/status/1390608342553346050
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May 7, 2021 21:04
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Leanne Wood lost her seat.
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May 7, 2021 21:04
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Bardeh posted:Dartford's UKIP voters decided to switch to....Green? This is silly. You can't read the numbers like that. Those numbers could much more easily be explained by: 1. UKIP voters not voting this time, and 2. A bunch of Labour voters going for Green this time, and 3. A bunch of non-voters going to the polls for Labour
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