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Microplastics
Jul 6, 2007

:discourse:
It's what's for dinner.

OwlFancier posted:

I genuinely wonder if he has literally just spend the last year and a half getting shitfaced on the party dime and shagging.

Just another example of him trying to be like Boris


E: 55 pigs got injured in NI and Keith pleaded, through loud ugly sobs, for Boris to do something about it

Microplastics fucked around with this message at 08:35 on May 9, 2021

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serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007

what.

smellmycheese posted:

Say what you like about Tony Blair but he stuck by his token working class deputy even after he decided to land a right hook straight on a voters jaw

I'm pretty sure he belted Hislop at some point the way those two go at each other too.

peanut-
Feb 17, 2004
Fun Shoe
If anyone fancies inflicting psychic damage on themselves here's Peter Mandelson's diagnosis of the situation in the FT. Though it can be neatly summarised as
1) Purge the left
2) Change the things that need changing and that is the change we will bring about

quote:

Starmer must listen to voters, not Labour factions
Losses in party’s heartlands show it must reinvent itself to win back support

It is hard to think of my former Labour heartland constituency being represented by a Tory farmer from Yorkshire who, before visiting the town, seemed to think it was somewhere like Leeds. But Labour had it coming. The defeat follows a decade of abject political failure in which the party has disrespected its bedrock supporters and now has to build back very differently or lose them completely.

Voters in northern England have felt disconnected from Labour ever since we left government in 2010. That’s why we lost in 2015, 2017 and 2019. As we accelerated towards the fantasies of Jeremy Corbyn, the respectable working class voters who gave New Labour its majorities were mystified by the attempts to airbrush out its achievements in government.

The party figures who are now gunning for Keir Starmer are the people who bequeathed him an entity that had become barely recognisable as a functioning political party — certainly not a competitive one capable of winning a general election. It is extraordinary that Starmer should be blamed for losing a by-election he and his team put everything into but could not possibly turn round with the hand they were dealt. 

The question, therefore, for Starmer is how he is going to transform this hand or whether he will face a realignment of British politics that will rob the centre left of power for the foreseeable future. 

No doubt when the results of the Super Thursday elections are analysed they will show considerable geographic variation for Labour. But in the Midlands and the North I suspect that a Brexit effect will be detected, with the cultural divides it intensified and the deeper cultural forces and antagonisms it exposed, making it much harder for Labour to win back the respectable working class that was once the core of its vote.

Without gaining back this support and joining it to middle class, graduate and ethnic minority voters in an effective electoral coalition, any plan for Labour victory will fail. Building such a coalition is not easy but it has been key to every landmark Labour government since 1945. There is no other route to power, certainly not in the current electoral system, which demands that each political party has very broad appeal to be competitive.

The party needs a strong, powerful programme and a message capable of building this coalition of voters, alongside a fresh statement of Labour’s aims and values in the 21st century. The idea that the party, freed from the incubus of Corbyn, can continue to uphold his policies is ludicrous. Starmer needs to wipe the slate clean and address the fresh challenges of the post-Covid, post-Brexit era with boldness and realism. As things stand, we cannot say this is work in progress and it needs to start, urgently.

There must be a bigger argument about reform. The party, including its membership, must accept that listening to the voters rather than prioritising their own agenda has to be the focus in the coming months. A members’ party that is dominated by London and the south east, the university towns and the cities cannot conceivably be a party for the whole nation. Nor can hard left factions seeking to control our largest trade unions have a guaranteed place in its governing counsels. 

Fundamentally, Labour needs to bring together the genuine grassroots of the UK’s nations and regions in the way it elects its leader and governs its affairs, and untie itself from those who offer slogans and sentiment as a substitute for hard policy thinking and voter connection. This is reinvention territory rather than mere rebuilding. Without it, no amount of communication shake ups and campaigning prowess will do the job.

Having taken the wrong path after the 2010 defeat, Starmer has clearly begun Labour’s course correction but he wants to change the party without disturbing the coalition he originally created to win the leadership. The problem is that many of his supporters, and many of the fellow travellers who hitched themselves to the party when Corbyn was leader, say they want change while leaving everything the same. This goes to the heart of Starmer’s dilemma. He can have change or he can have unity but not both. If Starmer wants to lead Labour into government, he has little real choice.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

A lot of words to say "reality and my ideals have collided and I have decided that it is reality I shall discard"

XMNN
Apr 26, 2008
I am incredibly stupid

peanut- posted:

If anyone fancies inflicting psychic damage on themselves here's Peter Mandelson's diagnosis of the situation in the FT. Though it can be neatly summarised as
1) Purge the left
2) Change the things that need changing and that is the change we will bring about


quote:

Voters in northern England have felt disconnected from Labour ever since we left government in 2010. That’s why we lost in 2015, 2017 and 2019. As we accelerated towards the fantasies of Jeremy Corbyn, the respectable working class voters who gave New Labour its majorities were mystified by the attempts to airbrush out its achievements in government.


loving lmao

Labour just left government in 2010 voluntarily and then they were defeated in 2015, 2017 and 2019 because they decided to start betraying the working class

I think this guy is a very astute and honest critic who is certainly not just advancing the line that suits him

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler

quote:


It is extraordinary that Starmer should be blamed for losing a by-election he and his team put everything into but could not possibly turn round with the hand they were dealt.


loving hell lol

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Pistol_Pete posted:

loving hell lol

The only time this has ever happened in the last 11 years exactly. And it definitely did happen to starmer, yes.

sebzilla
Mar 17, 2009

Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.


Pistol_Pete posted:

loving hell lol

Also it was mainly the women's fault.

Juliet Whisky
Jan 14, 2017

Vagabong posted:

It's cool that the Labour right saw support for social democratic parties drain across Europe and never thought it could happen to them.

1: Labour has never been social-democratic and their last administration saw them pretend to redistribute wealth by absorbing capitals's costs and risks into the public sector (for a century, at higher-than-cost), being relatively-chill to people on benefits, and ultra-supportive of an expansion of consumer credit to the point of a global credit crisis which saw Brits amongst the first to queue in lines outside banks, and later ouside food banks. Only one of these reflected any aspiration to social-democracy, and it wasn't Ed Balls attending City dinners to declare 'a new golden age for investment'.

2. The increasingly social-democratic SNP just got the highest vote for any party in the history of Scotland's plebiscite, and have the support of Scottish Labour, the Scottish Liberal Democrats, and the Scottish Greens for the establishment of a National Care Service and institution of a universal basic income. The Greens and SNP, as the only two parties to gain votes last week, also promise to renationalise the railways up here.

It's really too bad about Jeremy Corbyn. He did hamstring the Tories' worst current ambitions (and manifesto promises) by merely presenting an alternative from the left, possibly making him the Labour Party's most-effective leader in its history. The rest of its record (absent brief periods of being 'notoriously unelectable') is doing whatever Capital wanted without being asked -- in open conflict with its own members and, often, with the trade unions which barely sponsor it, unlike the Tories who are at least canny (or honest) enough to negotiate their payments up-front.

Juliet Whisky fucked around with this message at 09:24 on May 9, 2021

PNGYAKUZA
Apr 21, 2021

I'm not a monster, it's just a mask.
My lizard brain missed Jenny Chapman's last name and assumed they were on about Jenny Nicholson.
I need to get out more the brainrot is really setting in.

sebzilla
Mar 17, 2009

Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.


https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1391303875026640896?s=19

XMNN
Apr 26, 2008
I am incredibly stupid
ahahha

p sure once you've said you're going to sack someone you're going to have to get rid of them p sharpish

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I mean they can't sack her as deputy, so that is at least partly correct :v:

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they try to pretend yesterday didn't happen and I also would be only slightly more surprised if everyone involved goes along with that, at least temporarily.

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012

somehow that last av was even worse than your posting
Never mind all this labour nonsense, whose getting the blame and sacking for the NIPs historic election defeat?

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1391303805329891328?s=21

loooool

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Oh my god she's actually doing a jeremy hunt.

Yinlock
Oct 22, 2008

who could have imagined that systematically alienating all your support while also openly sucking up to your direct rivals was, somehow, a flawed electoral strategy

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007


It's incredible how this man seems to be the pure essence of an insincere, incompetent middle manager. People were joking yesterday about it being spun as as a positive move to a front of house position and that's literally what he's done

sebzilla
Mar 17, 2009

Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.



He can't or won't say which position though.

Probably dependent on getting someone else to step down to save face.

sebzilla
Mar 17, 2009

Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.


"No of course she's not sacked, she's been promoted to, uh..."

*grabs random sheet of paper from desk and reads it*

"Shadow Home Secretary? Bloody hell, Nick's not going to be happy about this."

domhal
Dec 30, 2008


0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin. All he has managed to do is make himself *sad*. It has, however, made him into a very, very smart boy with something like a university degree in Truth. Instead of building Communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world.

quote:

Fundamentally, Labour needs to [...] untie itself from those who offer slogans and sentiment as a substitute for hard policy thinking and voter connection.


Gorgeous.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.

keep punching joe posted:

Tbh if I was leader of the Labour Party that's what I 'd do.

Isn't that also true for the leader of the Tory Party?

forkboy84
Jun 13, 2012

Corgis love bread. And Puro


multijoe posted:

It's incredible how this man seems to be the pure essence of an insincere, incompetent middle manager. People were joking yesterday about it being spun as as a positive move to a front of house position and that's literally what he's done

We all love our bosses awoooo

Halisnacks
Jul 18, 2009
So Labour could not even manage to get a single frontbench spokesperson on Marr three days after the largest set of elections until the next GE, one of the few times people are more clued into Westminster politics?

They are failing even by their own measure of “competent” managerialism.

smellmycheese
Feb 1, 2016

Halisnacks posted:

So Labour could not even manage to get a single frontbench spokesperson on Marr three days after the largest set of elections until the next GE, one of the few times people are more clued into Westminster politics?

They are failing even by their own measure of “competent” managerialism.

Rayner was booked to be on apparently lmao

XMNN
Apr 26, 2008
I am incredibly stupid
they're still trying to work out who's on the frontbench now tbf

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets

sebzilla posted:

"No of course she's not sacked, she's been promoted to, uh..."

*grabs random sheet of paper from desk and reads it*

"Shadow Home Secretary? Bloody hell, Nick's not going to be happy about this."

"Erm, Leader of the opposition.Wait? What?"

serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007

what.
Yeah Rayner was scheduled. Instead McDonnell has gone on and stuck the boot in a bit.

Answers Me
Apr 24, 2012

I’ve always found it a bit baffling that centrists portrayed Starmer as some suave underrated hottie, but nonetheless my god does he look like poo poo now compared to just a year ago

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

serious gaylord posted:

Yeah Rayner was scheduled. Instead McDonnell has gone on and stuck the boot in a bit.

How the gently caress did they let him on? surely you would tackle him before he got near the studio?

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018

OwlFancier posted:

How the gently caress did they let him on? surely you would tackle him before he got near the studio?

Wpuld you want be the admin tasked with tackling Big John?

serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007

what.
https://twitter.com/FisherAndrew79/status/1391308303200829440

Seems like a good idea to let him on imo.

Miftan
Mar 31, 2012

Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

OwlFancier posted:

How the gently caress did they let him on? surely you would tackle him before he got near the studio?

I'd like to see someone try to tackle Big John "Arm" McDonnell

efb

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Genuinely did he just lurk around the back door of the studio or something lmao? I cannot begin to imagine how the leaders office could possibly have thought mcdonnel is the best person to send to talk to the press.

I know for a fact that keir drives a big rear end car and is not afraid to run people over in it.

serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007

what.

OwlFancier posted:

Genuinely did he just lurk around the back door of the studio or something lmao? I cannot begin to imagine how the leaders office could possibly have thought mcdonnel is the best person to send to talk to the press.

Him today and Corbyns wonderful interview yesterday are brilliant tbf.

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007


More absolutely impeccable media management from the Grown Up Opposition

Answers Me
Apr 24, 2012
Diane Abbott was on Sky News doing the same. It’s hilarious how inept the party ghouls are at keeping a tab on their enemies

serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007

what.
https://twitter.com/Martin_Abrams/status/1391315902189248515?s=20

Just shoot yourself in the head mate. You're done.

Absolutely loving savaged.

XMNN
Apr 26, 2008
I am incredibly stupid

OwlFancier posted:

Genuinely did he just lurk around the back door of the studio or something lmao? I cannot begin to imagine how the leaders office could possibly have thought mcdonnel is the best person to send to talk to the press.

I know for a fact that keir drives a big rear end car and is not afraid to run people over in it.

my guess would be the producers tried to get someone from the frontbench to come on but starmer couldn't decide which of them were currently sacked or not, so they ended up ringing around for other people to fill the slot

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serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007

what.
Labours net result: Lost 301 council seats.

283 more than what caused the Chicken Coup.

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