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Raskolnikov38 posted:Keith crashing this plane with no survivors but while thinking he’s desperately trying to save it The whole time he just sacked the man who knows where all the bodies are buried lol
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May 9, 2021 21:40
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rachel reeves claim to fame is before the 2015 election saying labour would be harsher on benefits claimants than the tories https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1391494018224300047?s=20
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May 9, 2021 21:45
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Jose posted:he just sacked the man who knows where all the bodies are buried lol “I keep pitching the plane down why doesn’t it go up?!?!?”
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May 9, 2021 21:57
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Welll this has felt grimly inevitable for ages lol. What the voters want you see is a harder austerity narrative delivered by a woman who even by the standards of MPs is unlikeable
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May 9, 2021 21:58
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Raskolnikov38 posted:“I keep pitching the plane down why doesn’t it go up?!?!?” "what do you mean pushing forward doesn't mean "go up", it Makes Sense so obviously it's the flaps that are wrong"
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May 9, 2021 22:01
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Shogi posted:Welll this has felt grimly inevitable for ages lol. What the voters want you see is a harder austerity narrative delivered by a woman who even by the standards of MPs is unlikeable genuinely have no idea who she appeals to or why the labour right think she's great https://twitter.com/simonk_133/status/1391497880393891843?s=20
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May 9, 2021 22:03
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Valko posted:What if most people are stupid, though? there isn't a leave voter in the country half as stupid as someone who genuinely thought, even for a second, remain was possible or not suicidal 2017-present. sure many leave voters are ignorant morons but they lack the intellectual capacity to be really stupid. to be really stupid you gotta think yourself stupid, you need to argue yourself stupid and construct a perfectly stupid narrative. it requires constant internal reinforcement and justification - you really need to will yourself a moron. read andrew adonis's twitter feed from the period to get what i mean - iyou really need to be educated stupid if you want to be a real goddamned moron. it doesn't happen by accident.
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May 9, 2021 22:05
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Jose posted:genuinely have no idea who she appeals to or why the labour right think she's great I dunno, turns on a dime based on whatever the latest focus group she listened to said? That's the most electable thing there is.
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May 9, 2021 22:10
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nah no issues there, reeves simply has the consistent and moral position that immigration should be banned and she shouldnt face any hassle while popping to Val d’Isère for holibobs
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May 9, 2021 22:11
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Valko posted:What if most people are stupid, though? Using this logic, Blair won the Iraq vote and we are forevermore committed to Iraq because the peace people lost the vote and therefore opponents must all give up efforts immediately- THEY LOST, TOO BAD. Millions and millions voted for Remain and no one seems interested in their point of view which is curious for a referendum that was 52-48,and not, say, 70-30. It’s a divided country! “The people voted for Leave but it’s stupid and will greatly harm the nation and we are not going to help the Tories implement this very bad decision, this is all on them” is a legitimate policy stand in a Western Democracy. Functional opposition parties tend to oppose, not say “yeah, me too”. Otherwise their voters all melt away as they have no one representing their wants. I guess it’s cheating for Labour to say “farmers and fishermen are getting absolutely rogered by Brexit, why did we even do this?”
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May 9, 2021 22:11
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Keith crashing this plane with no survivors while thinking he’s desperately trying to save it the whole time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_flight_into_terrain
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May 9, 2021 22:34
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CoolCab posted:sorry, was working on papers. yes, less than half voted for it - that means it didn't win. they don't have to gently caress off and die but they did lose an election. and you don't get the thing you want - because you lost the election! and it's going to suck and be terrible and you can smugly watch the idiot spanish expats whine as they're kicked out and say i told you so, but what you can't do is go over to spain and repeatedly tell immigration enforcement that you didn't like the result of the election we're not doing it. Sir this is a Tesco self checkout counter.
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May 9, 2021 22:35
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Nieuw Amsterdam posted:Using this logic, Blair won the Iraq vote and we are forevermore committed to Iraq because the peace people lost the vote and therefore opponents must all give up efforts immediately- THEY LOST, TOO BAD. I don't recall the Iraq war being decided by a public referendum.
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May 9, 2021 22:40
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Nieuw Amsterdam posted:Using this logic, Blair won the Iraq vote and we are forevermore committed to Iraq because the peace people lost the vote and therefore opponents must all give up efforts immediately- THEY LOST, TOO BAD. quote:Millions and millions voted for Remain and no one seems interested in their point of view which is curious for a referendum that was 52-48,and not, say, 70-30. It’s a divided country! and millions voted for corbyn and my example demonstrates, specifically? like, it's a contest of who got the most votes and when you don't get that you lose and the thing you didn't want happens. loving, functional opposition parties? the party went remain and got the hardest kicking in it's entire lifetime to a party called "the brexit party" if it was called the "hey, nieuw amsterdam, boy it's weird you pretending that you're talking about some mysterious other person who is still in the middle of a five year temper tantrum and for sure had FBPE in your twitter handle at some point, anyway backing a remain position will, with absolute certain cost the election and most likely the party, idiot, party" would that have helped your comprehension? here is another, more accurate way to describe a 52/48 - it's close because people are unsure and needed convincing from the majority. the EU was abstract and their lives increasingly miserable. they got that - the remain campaign was by a wide margin the worst in british electoral history and managed to convince eight lifestyle brand managers who too were terrified of their champagne being restricted and, for sure, turned at least enough people to swing the result to vote leave. hey remember when they got bob geldof - "guy literally only known to anyone for being a stupid rear end in a top hat no one likes" to get in a faux naval stunt battle on the tems with nigel farage and a bunch of tother people who's only commonality was that I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here have repeatedly told "we're actually going in a different direction this season, but...thanks for those photos of you eating bugs anyway i guess". boy i bet the people struggling to afford to put food in their bellies appreciated a mock yacht battle really played well with them. and hey guess what - once again, the voters told you and yours to go gently caress yourself like they did in 2019 like they did in 2016 and once again you're going "nevertheless"
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May 9, 2021 22:51
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I suppose I should clarify. I have no sympathy for leave voters. Ask them why, there are many different answers and none of them make sense. I've been in arguments and debates about it with hardcore Irish republicans who voted leave - like one time me and two long distance lorry drivers once tried to convince an old woman republican why it was stupid. Every time it looked like we might be getting through to her and making sense it was like a switch flipped in her head. She just screamed "I'm an Irish woman and I voted leave!" We couldn't seem to convince her it wasn't anything like a vote on leaving the UK. There are as many people as dumb as that on the Loyalist side too. We had quite some time to prepare for brexit, too. In that time I am sure lots of people accepted it and tried to mitigate the incoming damage. But how many times have we heard a staunch leaver say something like "This isn't the brexit I voted for!" then someone will try to explain the situation - and now they see it as a personal attack. People like this are everywhere. I'm fed up trying to convince them. It's pointless. The tories got in on the promise of delivering brexit despite 10 years of savage victorian style misrule which they all decided to ignore. And you better drat believe I'll be spiteful about it and call them stupid if I want.
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May 9, 2021 22:54
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grats on literally being opposed to democracy i guess
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May 9, 2021 22:54
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Valko posted:I suppose I should clarify. I have no sympathy for leave voters. . i for one am shocked
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May 9, 2021 22:55
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A couple of years down the line, after constant embarrassing failures and defeats of the government in negotiations with the EU and a looming hard Brexit, it might have been possible to say 'Actually this really hasn't gone as we thought it would, maybe we could check with the public again.' However the Remainers could not accept their defeat and the campaign for the second referendum was launched the day after the results from the first one. It was impossible to have a new argument about whether actually existing Brexit was a good idea or not because the Remainers never fully accepted that they'd lost the vote in the first place. The indicative votes session of parliament showed that the most ardent Remainers were primarily concerned about being completely right and stopping Brexit entirely rather than dealing with the actual mood of the country and choices they had about the variety of Brexits and worse the collapse of the rainbow government proposals showed that most of them were more concerned about having to refer to Corbyn as Prime Minister than even stopping Brexit. The most single minded Leavers and Remainers both got taken for mugs by uncaring politicians and crippled the country but at least Leavers have the dignity of actually winning the referendum to justify themselves.
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May 9, 2021 22:58
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tbh it's hard to specifically pile one's woes on the EU, but the EU is absolutely a part of the reason for those woes and denying it is just silly. it's a terrible institution. leaving will likely cause more harm than benefit to britain, but the EU explicitly does poo poo like accommodate politicians' public blaming the EU for stuff so long as those politicians play ball behind the scenes, i.e. elected officials directly misleading their publics
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May 9, 2021 22:59
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I know a leave voter who voted leave becuase he said he voted to join the common market and then tons more stuff happened he didn't get to vote on. Turns out he was wrong because it was all in thatchers manifestos but how many people actually read those
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May 9, 2021 23:01
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part of the problem was that cameron sincerely didn't bother to plan for what might happen if he actually lost the brexit referendum, and when he did he'd just given whoever took over + the EU a mandate to do whatever. this was, for understandable reasons, unacceptable to a lot of Remainers, who immediately tried to reverse the referendum. the idea of a second referendum was not, fundamentally, a terrible one, but it was tainted by obviously being associated with the Remoaners who just wanted another go and, importantly, saw nothing objectionable about just redoing a referendum that didn't go their way
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May 9, 2021 23:03
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V. Illych L. posted:tbh it's hard to specifically pile one's woes on the EU, but the EU is absolutely a part of the reason for those woes and denying it is just silly. it's a terrible institution. leaving will likely cause more harm than benefit to britain, but the EU explicitly does poo poo like accommodate politicians' public blaming the EU for stuff so long as those politicians play ball behind the scenes, i.e. elected officials directly misleading their publics that was not the remain campaign. the remain campaign was collecting the least likeable people people in the country so they go on TV to whine about how their holiday plans would be disrupted and how the EU is a perfect godlike being, pure and whole and the greatest thing since sliced bread. remember they still bring up corbyn giving it a 7/10 - because they'd all been screaming at people how it's a 15/10 for months now and he was undermining their message. this is, legitimately, a thing they are still mad about.
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May 9, 2021 23:03
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lol cameron spent years blaming the EU for austerity being why things were poo poo then gave the country a vote on leaving it
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May 9, 2021 23:05
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CoolCab posted:that was not the remain campaign. the remain campaign was collecting the least likeable people people in the country so they go on TV to whine about how their holiday plans would be disrupted and how the EU is a perfect godlike being, pure and whole and the greatest thing since sliced bread. remember they still bring up corbyn giving it a 7/10 - because they'd all been screaming at people how it's a 15/10 for months now and he was undermining their message. yeah as i've posted upthread, a lot of damage was done by brexit turning a whole bunch of young lefties into Actual EU Supporters which is a completely demented position if you're on any kind of radical left
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May 9, 2021 23:05
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May 9, 2021 23:08
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah as i've posted upthread, a lot of damage was done by brexit turning a whole bunch of young lefties into Actual EU Supporters which is a completely demented position if you're on any kind of radical left don't forget those same young lefties then dictating that anyone who doubted the goodness and purity of the EU was a frothing racist, don't think that's helped much either.
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May 9, 2021 23:08
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supranationalism ftw
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May 9, 2021 23:09
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Often Abbreviated posted:don't forget those same young lefties then dictating that anyone who doubted the goodness and purity of the EU was a frothing racist, don't think that's helped much either. i think its unfair to blame young people who politically come of age right as a very obviously racist project involving the whole country becomes a voting issue
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May 9, 2021 23:09
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I'm not going to blame anyone for taking the side opposite to every fascist movement in the country tbh. The EU sucks but if you're a low-moderate info voter and you see UKIP banging on about Leave and a literal neo-nazi murders an MP over it what's your impression going to be of it?
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May 9, 2021 23:12
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah as i've posted upthread, a lot of damage was done by brexit turning a whole bunch of young lefties into Actual EU Supporters which is a completely demented position if you're on any kind of radical left I suspect most of those actually of value to the left will learn about the details of Fortress Europe from either the left or general EU news and hopefully keep the values of internationalism rather than just adopt liberal flag waving like the rest.
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May 9, 2021 23:13
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Homeless Friend posted:supranationalism ftw yeah, let ghosts and leprechauns vote
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May 9, 2021 23:15
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https://twitter.com/wariotifo/status/1391516054732541972?s=20
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May 9, 2021 23:17
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multijoe posted:I'm not going to blame anyone for taking the side opposite to every fascist movement in the country tbh. The EU sucks but if you're a low-moderate info voter and you see UKIP banging on about Leave and a literal neo-nazi murders an MP over it what's your impression going to be of it? wild how fast a literal political assassination dropped from everyones memories
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May 9, 2021 23:17
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multijoe posted:I'm not going to blame anyone for taking the side opposite to every fascist movement in the country tbh. The EU sucks but if you're a low-moderate info voter and you see UKIP banging on about Leave and a literal neo-nazi murders an MP over it what's your impression going to be of it? it's still a reactionary impulse, and as it turns out a destructive one i have higher expectations from leftie cadres than i do from the general public, i suppose
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May 9, 2021 23:18
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah as i've posted upthread, a lot of damage was done by brexit turning a whole bunch of young lefties into Actual EU Supporters which is a completely demented position if you're on any kind of radical left Often Abbreviated posted:don't forget those same young lefties then dictating that anyone who doubted the goodness and purity of the EU was a frothing racist, don't think that's helped much either. the absolute most hysterical of these, imo, is the lefty scottish nats. like, don't get me wrong i think their case is strengthened by the result going the way it did, i'm not on about that - several friends of mine months later posted things like "well, okay, sure, going remain for sure utterly destroyed any chance of socialism in this country as well as more or less dooming us to the worst possible brexit deal and the SNP were as bad if not worse than the lib dems and kier starmer in terms of demanding labour adopt a position that was as close to literal suicide as parliamentary procedure allows outside of charles kennedy and was, alright, totally counterproductive and irrational; but; the leave campaign was a racist endeavour so i still think the EU is worth fighting for and we did the right thing"
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May 9, 2021 23:18
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Just out of curiosity, why does the media in the UK call people who have been knighted "sir"? If I'm not mistaken, it's just an arbitrary honorific from the monarchy. Why even acknowledge that kind of nonsense - is there some sort of legal requirement to call people "sir" (or whatever other title), or is it an actual belief that being touched by the queen makes a person more deserving of respect?
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May 9, 2021 23:27
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multijoe posted:I'm not going to blame anyone for taking the side opposite to every fascist movement in the country tbh. The EU sucks but if you're a low-moderate info voter and you see UKIP banging on about Leave and a literal neo-nazi murders an MP over it what's your impression going to be of it? any well informed decent person supported remain before the election obviously. like, i fuckin hate the EU for any number of compelling reasons and one of them was that the UK got the most preferential treatment imaginable and we'd be loving dipshits to turn that down, and i'd never vote for something that threatened to potentially deport people. corbyn was being wayyyyyyy to nice i'd have put the EU as a 5 at best and of course i voted remain. but, we didn't have well informed people, we had thirty years of bendy bananas and brussels bureaucrats in the press and soul crushing austerity at home, one of the political parties pitched "hey, lets do anything" and the other one ran on the Everything Is Great And You Should Be Grateful ticket with a touch of Now How Will You Visit Your French Villa??????
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May 9, 2021 23:27
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CoolCab posted:the absolute most hysterical of these, imo, is the lefty scottish nats. There's a loving surprise. "It's snowing in May, why would those Scot Nats do this?" V. Illych L. posted:grats on literally being opposed to democracy i guess Hell, same
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May 9, 2021 23:28
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forkboy84 posted:There's a loving surprise. lol i'm left auth af
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May 9, 2021 23:38
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CoolCab posted:Now How Will You Visit Your French Villa?????? Yes, terrible tragedy that this situation hasn't yet been resolved. Truly dreadful.
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May 9, 2021 23:46
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