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I'm late to the party but man Dark Side of the Ring: Benoit is a hell of a watch. Fantastic show, really well done, brought back a lot of sad memories of that insane time period.I think it made the issue a bit more nuanced but man is it hard to relive
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May 9, 2021 23:45
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PWInsider posted:
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May 10, 2021 01:28
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how much higher were ratings thirty years ago lol
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May 10, 2021 01:30
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drat, they set the business back to it’s cultural peak, dumbasses to be honest the best war games match I ever saw besides the dangerous alliance one that is monumental was the women’s NxT one. AEW’s wasn’t quite top five for me, it’d be probably the 6th best i’ve seen. It was still a very good match and the MJF moment was iconic. WWE is tripping and jealous even though they’ve done it better recently, probably because they don’t consider what those women did because it was a top 3 war games ever easily. Eat My Fuc fucked around with this message at 01:33 on May 10, 2021 |
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May 10, 2021 01:30
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Eat My Fuc posted:one that is monumental was the women’s NxT one the one with the kai turn? that poo poo was awesome
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May 10, 2021 01:41
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Is that the one where Rhea Ripley looked like a hyper-competant monster and extremely bookable wrestling machine just before whatever process they subject people to when they call them up turned her into a complete wet fart?
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May 10, 2021 01:46
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Eat My Fuc posted:drat, they set the business back to it’s cultural peak, dumbasses The recent war game matches have all been better than blood and guts and WWE is still jealous and scared. They really don't know what to do with competition anymore.
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May 10, 2021 01:59
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Raskolnikov38 posted:how much higher were ratings thirty years ago lol Wrestling was about to enter the dark ages in North America so this could be really bad.
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May 10, 2021 02:01
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Golden Bee posted:Dolph was doing amateur wrestling since age 9. I don’t think it’s fair to call him an OVW guy. Though this does raise another question, who are the successful amateur wrestlers who ended up not being good pro wrestlers? It's a common enough background for good/great pro wrestlers, from Gagne and Thesz to Nagata and Suzuki to Angle and Lesnar, and hundreds of people in between. But have there been people who excelled in amateur who ended up flaming out of pro wrestling?
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May 10, 2021 02:07
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I didn't think Blood and Guts was that great, but I don't see how the opinion of it setting anything back holds water. How did it set things back? I guess maybe they'd complain about the violence, and I'm not a big fan of blading, but every so often it's effective and helps elevate a match or scene. I think it was appropriate for the match and the story they were telling. But I mean, WWE just had a match in the last year where supposedly someone had their eye gouged out and that was way way way way worse in terms of fake violence and setting things back.
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May 10, 2021 02:17
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Hint: it’s because it was from the competition. Which they totally don’t care about.
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May 10, 2021 02:18
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https://twitter.com/davidbix/status/1391587252111876099
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May 10, 2021 04:10
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MassRafTer posted:Wrestling was about to enter the dark ages in North America so this could be really bad. The Main Event V took place on January 28, 1991 from the Macon Coliseum in Macon, Georgia, and aired on Friday February 1, 1991 at 8pm ET.[21][22] The broadcast drew 10.6 million viewers and a 6.7 rating,[23] which was at the time the worst rating any WWF program had received on NBC despite the presence of Hulk Hogan. This has been blamed on the controversial Sgt. Slaughter Iraq storyline that was on going at the time.[24] lmao 10.6 mil and it was declared a terrible number
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May 10, 2021 04:11
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Haha loving WWE. Give them another billion dollars.
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May 10, 2021 04:11
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I've been thinking about the decline of wrestling in the early 2000s and how it's blamed on many different things, Stone Cold turning heel, the mishandled Invasion etc, but I think i've stumbled on a bigger reason and the reason I haven't seen it mentioned much is because for decades WWE has written their own history and wrestling journalists were pretty poo poo until a few years ago and many of them are still poo poo so they just towed the line and repeated the narrative. The main reason WWE booked itself into a losing situation with heel Austin is because they genuinely thought that the Rock was going to fail in Hollywood and be back within 6 months. Everthing they booked is based around this and it took them over a year to realize the Rock wasn't coming back in any full time capacity ever again. They had no top guy waiting, and they pushed no one as a definitive top guy that entire time because they were so loving dumb thinking, and hoping the Rock would fail in Hollywood, maybe because Hogan did, but Hogan is a total loving moron who only appeals to other moron's and the Rock had charisma and was humble from all accounts in his early acting days which lead to him becoming tight with that industry and getting more opportunities. They really had so much confidence and self hatred that they thought breaking out of their little bubble was impossible and they never even tried to have a plan B, and it killed their momentum for good.
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May 10, 2021 05:21
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Eat My Fuc posted:I've been thinking about the decline of wrestling in the early 2000s and how it's blamed on many different things, Stone Cold turning heel, the mishandled Invasion etc, but I think i've stumbled on a bigger reason and the reason I haven't seen it mentioned much is because for decades WWE has written their own history and wrestling journalists were pretty poo poo until a few years ago and many of them are still poo poo so they just towed the line and repeated the narrative. Having watched the Bryan and Vinny Retro RAWs, the wheels were coming off on WWF’s consistency well before Rock left for Hollywood and only being better than WCW’s trashfire saved them from suffering a similar fate for a while. They were jobbing Rock out to Triple H all the loving time and he was gearing up for a much earlier Reign of Terror than the one that did happen, and only a quad tear ended up halting that plan.
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May 10, 2021 05:43
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Raskolnikov38 posted:The Main Event V took place on January 28, 1991 from the Macon Coliseum in Macon, Georgia, and aired on Friday February 1, 1991 at 8pm ET.[21][22] Literally no regular programming on NBC drew a rating under 6.7 except for Hull High, the weird forgotten spiritual companion to Cop Rock, which was one of the only other non-Fox network shows to get lower ratings than The Main Event. With the proliferation of cable television and everything else that has happened in thirty years, getting a double digit rating in the past ten years is reserved mostly for NFL games, the Big Bang Theory, This is Us, NCIS, and early seasons of American Idol and Dancing With the Stars, which if you look at the numbers straight across means that Monday Night Football in 2021 is roughly as popular as shows like Sibs, Sisters, and Baby Talk were in 1991.
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May 10, 2021 05:51
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Eat My Fuc posted:I've been thinking about the decline of wrestling in the early 2000s and how it's blamed on many different things, Stone Cold turning heel, the mishandled Invasion etc, but I think i've stumbled on a bigger reason and the reason I haven't seen it mentioned much is because for decades WWE has written their own history and wrestling journalists were pretty poo poo until a few years ago and many of them are still poo poo so they just towed the line and repeated the narrative. this post assumes that the WWF could have booked a new top guy waiting if they actually wanted to, which is a fallacy
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May 10, 2021 06:04
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Yeah, that's what happens when most people have 4 choices for what's on TV on any given night. Codependent Poster posted:I didn't think Blood and Guts was that great, but I don't see how the opinion of it setting anything back holds water. How did it set things back? I guess maybe they'd complain about the violence, and I'm not a big fan of blading, but every so often it's effective and helps elevate a match or scene. I think it was appropriate for the match and the story they were telling. The "hot takes on twitter" is that people are really upset with the finish.
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May 10, 2021 06:08
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Eat My Fuc posted:I've been thinking about the decline of wrestling in the early 2000s and how it's blamed on many different things, Stone Cold turning heel, the mishandled Invasion etc, but I think i've stumbled on a bigger reason and the reason I haven't seen it mentioned much is because for decades WWE has written their own history and wrestling journalists were pretty poo poo until a few years ago and many of them are still poo poo so they just towed the line and repeated the narrative. I'm not even going to completely blame WWE for this. The Rock's crossover appeal was something never seen before and not seen since. Even if they did have a plan B it would not have saved them because the Plan B would have been so tepid in comparison. You just can't lose two of the top 3 icons in North American professional wrestling history at the same time and maintain speed. ChrisBTY fucked around with this message at 06:58 on May 10, 2021 |
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May 10, 2021 06:54
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I also think a combination of Rock leaving, Brock leaving and to a lesser extent Lashley leaving led to the decision to make the brand the star.
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May 10, 2021 07:06
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and the brand has completely sucked ever since. They could have have 5 top guys if they wanted to. http://www.profightdb.com/pwi-500/2014.html I just picked a random year of PWI top 500, and it's kind of funny how all the people still in WWE are basically doing nothing, while everyone who moved over to AEW is having like career highs (and Cena/Batista going to hollywood) e: lol I have no idea how "legit" the pwi is, but if Bray is just behind Okada 
Hirez fucked around with this message at 07:18 on May 10, 2021 |
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May 10, 2021 07:13
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On an anecdotal level, every single person I know who watched during the attitude era and quit watching cites Triple H as their reason for quitting.It's actually funny how consistent it is. I know it's not data but he feels like the biggest anti-draw in wrestling history. My real hot take is that there wasn't really anything that could have stopped the decline of wrestling. 9/11 slammed shut the cultural zeitgeist that made wrestling cool and MMA rose to fill that niche. WWE didn't help themselves by being terrible, but I don't think they could have stopped the bleeding.
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May 10, 2021 07:14
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Eat My Fuc posted:I've been thinking about the decline of wrestling in the early 2000s and how it's blamed on many different things, Stone Cold turning heel, the mishandled Invasion etc, but I think i've stumbled on a bigger reason and the reason I haven't seen it mentioned much is because for decades WWE has written their own history and wrestling journalists were pretty poo poo until a few years ago and many of them are still poo poo so they just towed the line and repeated the narrative. WWE misjudge Rock and Hollywood and came back to bite them in the rear end but it really didn't affect the Austin heel run being awful as he was still around on a mostly full time schedule for the next couple years. And it really didn't stop the decline the Austin heel turn caused The funny thing is the WCW invasion angle 100% could of stopped the decline and rebuilt business and kept things going but of course we saw how that ended up. Mania 18 and 19 kinda of hid the decline as the product still seemed hot but it was a mask and than the Rock leaving full time after the Goldberg feud ripped that mask clean off and whelp
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May 10, 2021 07:16
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I'm sure that WWE people are upset about Blood & Guts, but as mentioned it's most likely because AEW has managed to turn the gimmick match into an actual draw again which the Fed consistently fails to do.
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May 10, 2021 07:37
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How do you figure out what all went on?
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May 10, 2021 07:44
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Cavauro posted:How do you figure out what all went on? Rene Descartes asked the same question!
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May 10, 2021 08:26
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Hirez posted:and the brand has completely sucked ever since. PWI was entirely kayfave until the year they gave it to The Miz at which point it feels like they decided ok we can't pretend thats true and started taking Japan seriously and how Okada became the first non-western wrestler to top it. Pre-Miz the biggest case of western bias was Dean Malenko winning in what was the worst WCW and WWF top run year when Misawa was put second but everyones always respected Malenko.
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May 10, 2021 08:45
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Dimebags Brain posted:On an anecdotal level, every single person I know who watched during the attitude era and quit watching cites Triple H as their reason for quitting.It's actually funny how consistent it is. I know it's not data but he feels like the biggest anti-draw in wrestling history. I think you can go back and see just how terribly they booked the invasion and aftermath. The bleeding was so much the WWE's own fault.
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May 10, 2021 09:30
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Eat My Fuc posted:drat, they set the business back to it’s cultural peak, dumbasses I would bet all my dogecoin and then some that they don't really consider that incredible women's war games match to be anything special.
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May 10, 2021 09:31
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Wazzu posted:I think you can go back and see just how terribly they booked the invasion and aftermath. The bleeding was so much the WWE's own fault. I was listening to the Bryan and Vinny retro shows and they noticed a change in the WWE creative literally the show after Vince bought WCW. I guess that's when Stephanie got into the creative and suddenly promos got more stilted and the feel of the 'modern era' of WWE began, and so did the decline, and it's just been getting steadily worse ever since.
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May 10, 2021 10:33
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Astro7x posted:Yeah, that's what happens when most people have 4 choices for what's on TV on any given night. Midnight Caller. drat. Forgot all about that show. WWE did the "Rey loses an eye" thing so that could have a "moment" to talk about for the next few weeks until it was forgotten because the angle had moved on (and Rey, surprise, had his eye back). Hell, maybe someone told Vince about the Mountain/Oberyn fight from Game of Thrones and he thought "we can top that! Who has this Mountain ever beat?" And now since WWE has competition, the eye thing will be forgotten until some magical, mythical time down the road where WWE is once again the only game in town. They'll make fun of it on a WWE podcast/WWE YouTube video and be like "yeah, this was stupid" while saying Blood & Guts killed AEW in the same breath.
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May 10, 2021 11:38
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"That set the business back 30 years! Anyway, here's your Wrestlemania guest host, Hulk Hogan!"
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May 10, 2021 12:46
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They're only saying that because business partners like Mattel will never let them put on a bloodbath again. It's easy to act like you're above it if you're not even allowed to do it. There are plenty of matches from the 00s where people are loving swimming in each other's blood and that was a hell of a lot less than thirty years ago.
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May 10, 2021 13:02
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Pope Corky the IX posted:There are plenty of matches from the 00s where people are loving swimming in each other's blood and that was a hell of a lot less than thirty years ago.
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May 10, 2021 13:28
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Is the implication that they set the business back 30 years because of the obviously gimmicked fall and up until now wrestling fans still believed that Shane McMahon was legitimately diving off various tall structures? Because I can totally believe WWE higher ups thinking nobody had figured out crash mats until now.
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May 10, 2021 13:47
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Even though Kevin Dunn hasn't been able to shoot around a crash mat for decades.
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May 10, 2021 13:50
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Saul Goode posted:Is the implication that they set the business back 30 years because of the obviously gimmicked fall and up until now wrestling fans still believed that Shane McMahon was legitimately diving off various tall structures? Because I can totally believe WWE higher ups thinking nobody had figured out crash mats until now. No, they implication is the level of violence the blood, the chair shots, is what set wrestling bad. It's the same argument that was used when ECW became popular (which they would then copy)
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May 10, 2021 13:57
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Davros1 posted:No, they implication is the level of violence the blood, the chair shots, is what set wrestling bad. It's the same argument that was used when ECW became popular (which they would then copy) I mean they had a match last year where you won by putting your opponent's eye out.
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May 10, 2021 14:06
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Even though Kevin Dunn hasn't been able to shoot around a crash mat for decades.
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May 10, 2021 14:17
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