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Guavanaut posted:Those are the same people who claim to believe that remembering that Epstein was a noncemaster plays into harmful antisemitic tropes. Jeremy Corbyn saying "Epshtein" playing into antisemitic tropes was my fave, because Epstein definitely isn't a very obviously Jewish name but saying it with a sh sound makes it so. loving universe brain poo poo
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May 10, 2021 10:12
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hmm haven't looked at the news for a while surely keith's "labour" party can't have done anything to make itself any more unpalatable overnight oh 
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May 10, 2021 10:29
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Rumours of Lansman being willing to back Rayner for a leadership bid. Utterly awful idea.
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May 10, 2021 10:33
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namesake posted:Rumours of Lansman being willing to back Rayner for a leadership bid. The old left are loving worthless. Well meaning but loving dumbos
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May 10, 2021 10:34
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forkboy84 posted:The old left are loving worthless. Well meaning but loving dumbos Exception for Big John
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May 10, 2021 10:35
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Spuckuk posted:Exception for Big John Nah. He's still in the Labour Party & still emotionally attached to the Labour Party & his big suggestion is a loving Zoom meeting. It's a waste.
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May 10, 2021 10:39
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namesake posted:Rumours of Lansman being willing to back Rayner for a leadership bid. Should we back a left candidate and build up credible leadership figures within the SCG? No, best we support the deputy leader who signed off on the membership purges and her former leader's explusion, I'm sure she'll chuck a few scraps our way if we're nice
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May 10, 2021 10:40
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Jackie Baillie is a bad person #1,654 https://twitter.com/bonjourdebbie/status/1391459480177676288
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May 10, 2021 10:44
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keep punching joe posted:Jackie Baillie is a bad person #1,654 It's a very US approach to fundraising, all those DNC consultants are really showing their work
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May 10, 2021 10:57
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Yeah that's nothing compared to American begging emails, still lovely to see it finding more of a place in the UK. Somehow I think it will be likely to cause more quiet offense than anything else over here.
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May 10, 2021 11:03
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Failed Imagineer posted:It's a very US approach to fundraising, all those DNC consultants are really showing their work
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May 10, 2021 11:12
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Fudge arrived during a work meeting and I'm trying to indoctrinate my PhD student into putting in an order. It me, I'm the marxist academic trying to corrupt the youth.
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May 10, 2021 11:13
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did you know if you don't donate to president trump's make america white again campaign radical communist-socialist joe biden will make it legal for aunt teafah BLMs to enter your home and force the menfolk to wear bras and lipstick 
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May 10, 2021 11:16
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namesake posted:Rumours of Lansman being willing to back Rayner for a leadership bid. Lansman really hasn't got much influence any more. That said, the rules between an open leadership contest (i.e. if Keith resigns) and a leadership challenge are different. Basically the former requires 20 nominations from MPs and the latter needs 40. It's not super likely a left candidate would be able to get 40 votes, and if Starmer doesn't quit (which is likely), it may be that the only option would be to unite behind a single candidate. Tbh Rayner is very far from ideal, but would be a significant improvement. The tweets she's been making just this morning show she's clearly angling for a challenge, and would probably have a decent chance of winning. If Rayner did challenge, that would mean she would be vacating the deputy leader position, so there would be a 20 nomination requirement to replace her - we should definitely be able to get a left nominee for that.
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May 10, 2021 11:18
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I would be surprised if replacing starmer with rayner would make a difference but I suppose it at least creates an opportunity to tarnish the name of another bunch of useless wastes.
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May 10, 2021 11:22
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Even aside from the fact that Rayner can't be trusted, putting a left candidate in now would cause a civil war worse than anything we saw under Corbyn imo, the hard right would rather destroy the party completely & the press would help them. The smarter move would be a soft left leader with no factional ties to the SCG imo, so the hard right can sort of get behind them without losing too much face. The Burnham's &c might be lovely regressives at heart, but they're smart enough to know which way the electoral wind is blowing & at least pay lip service to the labour movement to keep the unions & campaigners onside.
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May 10, 2021 11:28
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Borrovan posted:Even aside from the fact that Rayner can't be trusted, putting a left candidate in now would cause a civil war worse than anything we saw under Corbyn imo, the hard right would rather destroy the party completely & the press would help them. Frankly I think they should put Tony Blair back and let him lose hard as gently caress.
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May 10, 2021 11:33
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Her record on theyworkforyou doesn't look too bad on that front. Same with https://twitter.com/__mike91/status/1391632536703545344 I have heard people saying it's all being taken out of context, and while I'm not exactly eager to give her the benefit of the doubt, she's not been bad voting on immigration and asylum either. I guess it's just speeches chasing the centre rather than any desire to actually "be tougher than the Conservatives" fortunately.
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May 10, 2021 11:46
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Borrovan posted:Even aside from the fact that Rayner can't be trusted, putting a left candidate in now would cause a civil war worse than anything we saw under Corbyn imo, the hard right would rather destroy the party completely & the press would help them. The smarter move would be a soft left leader with no factional ties to the SCG imo, so the hard right can sort of get behind them without losing too much face. The Burnham's &c might be lovely regressives at heart, but they're smart enough to know which way the electoral wind is blowing & at least pay lip service to the labour movement to keep the unions & campaigners onside. I mean this is a pretty fair summary but also encapsulates why the Labour Party is untenable as a political project and must be allowed to die. If you're in an organisation called the 'Socialist Campaign Group' and are too cowed to even field a candidate due the psychoticial belligerent fascists you share a party with, what the hell is your point
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May 10, 2021 11:48
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I doubt any leader is really going to have any success in turning around Labour's fortunes unless they have some actual charisma. Whoever takes over from Starmer, left or right, is just going to end up king or queen of the ashes. Like, there's truth in that whole "any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king" meme, at least as it applies to electability. If you're "electable" you shouldn't need to be making that case, in those terms, to your party. They should see you and just know. Electability isn't about windsocking to focus groups, it's about having a force of personality that makes people who like you, love you, makes people who were indifferent to you say they liked you all along, and makes people who dislike you say things like "well, in fairness to [your name]". Starmer doesn't have that. Rayner doesn't have that. Maybe Burnham has developed that, but he certainly didn't have it last time he ran. I'm not sure who in the Labour party does.
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May 10, 2021 12:03
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I left the party last year and gave my goodbyes in an email. I'm still getting, "oops, you forgot to renew your membership. haha. No worries: here's a link to renew your membership." Emails. I wonder how many of their current members are non members in "oopsie woopsie" limbo.
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May 10, 2021 12:06
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The appearance of having that personality is a social construct, don't run around looking for someone with charisma, find someone with good politics and a team of supporters willing to show up wherever, whenever and talk about how great they are. Having media deliberately create that image is pretty important too but that requires structural support meaning either lots of money to buy good press or a good team able to leap at every opportunity to grab good press.
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May 10, 2021 12:09
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Big John.
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May 10, 2021 12:10
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Nicola Sturgeon was once upon a time a total charisma void. Something happened to her along the way (maybe it was spending all of 2014 doing hustings in village halls) that made her personality click. It can be learned
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May 10, 2021 12:14
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keep punching joe posted:Nicola Sturgeon was once upon a time a total charisma void. Something happened to her along the way (maybe it was spending all of 2014 doing hustings in village halls) that made her personality click. It can be learned Nicola... Nicola Sturgeon!!
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May 10, 2021 12:15
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Can't stand that Nicola Sturgeon she wants to put Scotland on a different country  
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May 10, 2021 12:19
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e: ^^^^ what did Donegal ever do to her  (e2: my bad it's just another Wales up there, yeah we could probably use a spare I'm sold)multijoe posted:I mean this is a pretty fair summary but also encapsulates why the Labour Party is untenable as a political project and must be allowed to die. If you're in an organisation called the 'Socialist Campaign Group' and are too cowed to even field a candidate due the psychoticial belligerent fascists you share a party with, what the hell is your point There was never a purely parliamentary path to socialism, but there was never an extraparliamentary one either. To achieve lasting positive change, you need both a Government that's broadly sympathetic to the labour movement and an organised working class putting pressure on them from outside. imo the Corbyn years have massively strengthened the extraparliamentary labour movement by getting so many more people engaged in left wing politics, & that's put the Labour Party in the position where they basically have to choose, start at least paying lip service to the labour movement or die. Looks like they're choosing wrong, but that is a terrible thing for the country. Borrovan fucked around with this message at 12:26 on May 10, 2021 |
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May 10, 2021 12:19
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With england continiously making GBS threads the bed I really dont think there's any alternative but independence for Scotland and Wales and the North
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May 10, 2021 12:25
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https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1391699951206518786?s=19 Lmao remember when they tried to break Corbyn as a man?
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May 10, 2021 12:28
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Guavanaut posted:Can't stand that Nicola Sturgeon she wants to put Scotland on a different country Pretty harsh to leave the Welsh behind like that.
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May 10, 2021 12:35
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His Divine Shadow posted:Frankly I think they should put Tony Blair back and let him lose hard as gently caress. You can't trick us, Adonis. We're not putting Blair back in charge!
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May 10, 2021 12:37
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Borrovan posted:Allowing the party to die, whether by the SCG overplaying its hand or Starmer carrying on doing exactly what he is doing, basically just means becoming a one party state led by fascists. Genuine political opposition will not be tolerated.
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May 10, 2021 12:39
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namesake posted:The appearance of having that personality is a social construct, don't run around looking for someone with charisma, find someone with good politics and a team of supporters willing to show up wherever, whenever and talk about how great they are. A social construct sure, but we live in the society that constructed it, so it has utility. Someone with good politics and a team of supporters willing to show up whenever, wherever to talk about how great they are was Jeremy Corbyn, and while he stopped the bleeding in 2017, ultimately he failed to turn Labour around. Good politics make an election worth winning, but they don't actually win elections. I'm not suggesting that the only thing Labour needs is someone with charisma, and who cares what their politics are, my point is that Labour needs someone with both good politics and a massive dollop of that socially constructed personality that will make people actually vote for them. Azza Bamboo posted:Big John. I do wonder how 2017 would have gone with him at the helm. Maybe it would have made no difference, but I feel McDonnell projects more "authority" than Corbyn did, maybe that could have pushed us over the line. Harder to sing his name to Seven Nation Army though, so, swings and roundabouts.
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May 10, 2021 12:40
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 I believe we're currently in "STAGE 2: ???" of the Kier Starmer 3-step plan for electoral success edit: I'm being informed that Stage 3 consists entirely of "drink whisky in office" so it looks like we're going to see a lot of critical movement during Stage 2, everybody Convex fucked around with this message at 12:44 on May 10, 2021 |
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May 10, 2021 12:42
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Maybe I'm being far too charitable but is that what Labour are really doing? The opposite of the Tories' Speak about socialist policies and nice poo poo but do nothing to fix it. Scream into the void like a giant gammon about immigration controls, then vote for slightly less poo poo things. They do know... that isn't going to work right?
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May 10, 2021 12:49
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So about Rayner https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1391716831707254786?s=20
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May 10, 2021 12:52
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This is how The Times article about the reshuffle started. Seems like a success. 
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May 10, 2021 12:52
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I don't think a lot of them do, no. It's what they genuinely think therefore it must be popular and correct. That's what being a politician is, belieiving in your own rightness axiomatically and enforcing that on the world.
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May 10, 2021 12:53
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ANYTHING YOU SOW posted:https://twitter.com/MattNixson/status/1391035747617095682?s=19 These two tweets genuinely broke my brain. Some people really need to internalise Dril's "Issuing a correction about ISIL" tweet, lest they find themselves eulogising murderers.
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May 10, 2021 13:09
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Guavanaut posted:Can't stand that Nicola Sturgeon she wants to put Scotland on a different country Not sure if Carlisle, and Cork being so close together there would create an infinite war or a super breed of invincible humans. happyhippy fucked around with this message at 13:16 on May 10, 2021 |
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May 10, 2021 13:11
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