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Brendan Rodgers posted:There's a lot of these people, more than we think. It's why they project "virtue signalling" onto other people.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:11 |
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# ? May 24, 2024 07:46 |
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Hang the potholes National service (which I definitely did) to make the youth fill in potholes!
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:14 |
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Barry Foster posted:if it was a case of just pressing a button or giving the nod or something then yeah, probably The literal Nazis are counterevidence, here. Check out the book Ordinary Men
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:15 |
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Guavanaut posted:Hang the potholes Nah, what you wanna do is sign up the potholes for national service so they just stop laying in the street like lazy scroungers.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:16 |
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goddamnedtwisto posted:It is a bit strange that people are pulling out the demographics are destiny argument in reaction to the Tories making moves that skew the (voting) demographic even more acutely in their favour. The argument is that millennials are always going to be significantly poorer than their parents, and that the Tories will try and end democracy to counter this. It's not a good destiny, really.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:16 |
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big scary monsters posted:It's a shame that those people don't see that even from a purely selfish point of view things that are good for society are broadly good for them too. Even (or especially) the most Jeremy Clarkson type character has some pet peeves about society, whether that's potholes in the road, an out of proportion fear of burglary or mugging, or they just think that homeless people in the street make the place look untidy. Those are all things that are easily within our capability to reduce or entirely solve but for some reason nobody wants to support the policies that would actually do so (with the exceptions of more cops and bring back hanging, which don't work very well on the latter two issues and don't work at all on potholes). People don't act in their rational self interest, they act according to their intuitive understanding of the world which means that inflicting pain where they want it inflicted is far more important than actually benefiting themselves, because they will continue to believe that the pain infliction is the only thing that will benefit them right up until they die.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:19 |
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Guavanaut posted:Hang the potholes It's an idea, but what with the soft youth of today I don't think they have the durability you need as proper pothole filler.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:20 |
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big scary monsters posted:It's a shame that those people don't see that even from a purely selfish point of view things that are good for society are broadly good for them too. Even (or especially) the most Jeremy Clarkson type character has some pet peeves about society, whether that's potholes in the road, an out of proportion fear of burglary or mugging, or they just think that homeless people in the street make the place look untidy. Those are all things that are easily within our capability to reduce or entirely solve but for some reason nobody wants to support the policies that would actually do so (with the exceptions of more cops and bring back hanging, which don't work very well on the latter two issues and don't work at all on potholes). Exactly. I don't have kids, I could get all bitter and resentful about the amount of my taxes going on education, child support etc. BUT I definitely don't want a society where these kids being supported become malnourished, under-educated adults! (And there is a link between malnourishment and ability to learn.). I don't drive, and rarely use the roads at all (even before covid). I could get all bitter and twisted about the amount of taxes spent on roads etc, but think of all those delivery services from deliveries to shops for us to buy essential goods to all the online shopping that people rely on - especially those in rural areas - they need good roads. I could get all bitter and twisted about all sorts of things which taxes are spent on but which are of little direct benefit to myself. People need to be encouraged to think much more widely about how things are all connected - nets, chaos theory, web of wyrd, stuff they can't see. I do blame education a little bit for "thought silos". (Did I just make up some management speak? Quick, I'll write a popular management book and create some courses and get rich.)
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:23 |
feedmegin posted:The literal Nazis are counterevidence, here. Check out the book Ordinary Men I remember reading somewhere that the majority of people are extraordinarily reluctant to kill, and that stuff like military training is designed to breakdown this basic reluctance. I'm having trouble finding the study now though, and concede that I am probably wrong EDIT here is something, I dunno if this was what I was thinking of, and it's not a paper https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/hope_on_the_battlefield Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 15:28 on May 12, 2021 |
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:23 |
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Barry Foster posted:My partner's dad is literally the '? ??' guy whenever she talks about poverty or racism or homeless people or whatever. It's like he short circuits. As far as he's concerned there's him, my partner and her sister, and my partner's mum, and if everyone else died tomorrow it'd be inconvenient but not sad.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:24 |
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feedmegin posted:The literal Nazis are counterevidence, here. Check out the book Ordinary Men There's another book which I'm never sure how much is fact and how much is fiction by Ranulph Fiennes called "The Secret Hunters" which has parts about how normal, everyday Germans became Nazis doing unspeakable things. There's also the whole Stanford Prison Experiment and Milgram Experiment thing (though participants in the Milgram try to make out these days they knew it was fake - but I think they're lying to cover the fact that they were quite happy to electrocute people they couldn't see (but could hear) on the say so of a guy in a white coat.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:26 |
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https://twitter.com/DanielHewittITV/status/1392470043812847617?s=20 Even this washed-up old duffer is dunking on Kieth now. How embarrassing for him.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:27 |
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Barry Foster posted:Think of the veterans of the Statues Offensive The Statues Offensive against offensive statues?
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:28 |
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The majority of people's behavioural conditioning needs to be constantly reinforced by their environment, and so people will quite willingly be extremely cruel to people they are used to it being acceptable to be cruel to among their social circle. As social acceptability drifts either due to changes in society or changes in the people they socialize with and/or the manner they socialize with them, so their range of behaviours drifts too.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:29 |
Paul.Power posted:Geez, even Mr. Birling got on well with Gerald (probably mostly because Gerald was richer than him though). I'm an unemployed ex-academic pothead communist with anxiety, depression, and no immediate prospects for any of those things to change He worked in the oil industry in Nigeria in the 70s and 80s, then retired on a fat stack of cash *Lavigne-ishy* can I make it any more obvious?
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:31 |
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goddamnedtwisto posted:This is one of those takes that's so wrong it's almost impossible to know where to begin. I mean we'll start just with a [citation needed] the size of the Sun because I can't see any way at all that this will make it *easier* for the precariat, or even just the nomadic graduate class, to vote. That better describes the people who are currently unable to vote. There was a big statistical discussion on that a few monthly threads back,, and the take away message was that that number dwarfs the vote difference between the parties. it was partly activated in 2017, which is why Corbyn did unexpectedly well. Providing those invisible people with IDs would enable them to vote, not as a one-off thing, but as a permanent enfranchisement. Which would radically change the scope of the possible. Perhaps for the worse, yes. But some chance is better than no chance. The obvious analogy here is with the change in Labour leadership rules that led t o Corbyn getting the chance at 2017 in the first place.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:34 |
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Barry Foster posted:I remember reading somewhere that the majority of people are extraordinarily reluctant to kill, and that stuff like military training is designed to breakdown this basic reluctance. http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/vo9/no2/16-engen-eng.asp It's an optimistic view in a way, but almost certainly overhyped. Where it becomes dangerous is when you assume that humans never ever want to kill and so you have to aggressively train that into soldiers or police officers just in case they need to. Then you end up with American cops being full of 'warrior cop' horseshit and not conflict deescalation skills.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:35 |
Guavanaut posted:Sounds like the beliefs popularized by 'On Killing' and 'Killology'. Yeah it must be Grossman, I couldn't find any other names related to the idea through google oh well, that's thoroughly depressing
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:37 |
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radmonger posted:That better describes the people who are currently unable to vote. There was a big statistical discussion on that a few monthly threads back,, and the take away message was that that number dwarfs the vote difference between the parties. it was partly activated in 2017, which is why Corbyn did unexpectedly well. Presumably all the Tories would have to do is keep the current restrictions w.r.t. address and just require ID in the poll stations on top of that. Hey presto no pesky enfranchisement to worry about.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:39 |
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:"thought silos". (Did I just make up some management speak? Quick, I'll write a popular management book and create some courses and get rich.) On the rest of your post, pretty much. That's meant to be part of the deal of living in a functional society. For people who want to be some kind of self-sufficient libertarian übermensch beholden to no man then I guess there's nothing stopping them buying a dinghy and going seasteading.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:39 |
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Guavanaut posted:Sounds like the beliefs popularized by 'On Killing' and 'Killology'. Wikipedia posted:Some veterans and historians have cast doubt on Marshall's research methodology.[9] Professor Roger J. Spiller (Deputy Director of the Combat Studies Institute, US Army Command and General Staff College) argues in his 1988 article, "S.L.A. Marshall and the Ratio of Fire" (RUSI Journal, Winter 1988, pages 63–71), that Marshall had not actually conducted the research upon which he based his ratio-of-fire theory. "The 'systematic collection of data' appears to have been an invention."[10] This revelation has called into question the authenticity of some of Marshall's other books and has lent academic weight to doubts about his integrity that had been raised in military circles even decades earlier.[11] Wikipedia posted:As a result of Marshall's work, modern military training was modified to attempt to override this instinct, by:
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:41 |
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Comrade Fakename posted:The Republican party is now an undeniably fascist organisation that is currently rallying around retroactive support for installing Trump as a dictator. Sorry wait, what?
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:46 |
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big scary monsters posted:Thought silos are where I keep my nuclear hot takes ready for deployment. And when that doesn't work out as expected - some place people tried living in a Randian community and it all went wrong - can't remember where - you end up on Welfare as did Ayn Rand.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:47 |
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big scary monsters posted:A starting salary of £82k would put those senior doctors in the top 5% in the UK by income1, so I can see why people might feel unsympathetic. But the income curve is so skewed at the top, so asymptotic, that I thought it might be illustrative to remind ourselves of how income is distributed in the UK and put doctors into perspective. This is a good post and I want to acknowledge it, but I would add that nobody was asking anyone to feel "sympathetic" towards senior consultants. That's a complete straw man argument that was directed at me. The whole argument started with peanut accusing doctors of hijacking discussions about NHS pay to the detriment of our colleagues, and of being "well connected" and frequently "bought off" by the government. Then when I tried to refute that it took a rapid turn into nonsense about 200k salaries and retiring at 60 followed swiftly by accusing me of wanting more money. It's a particularly nasty line of argument because whether tube drivers or doctors, Worker A is not responsible for Worker B being underpaid purely because they are paid better. And Union A is not responsible for Worker B being underpaid because they drew too much attention to Worker A. Its the whole basis of solidarity among labour. And for what it's worth, the fact that doctors negotiate their pay seperately means we won't be included in the post-pandemic pay deal they eventually thrash out with the rest of the NHS staff. Our pay rises for the next few years are fixed, so there's no reason at all to think we are distracting focus from other, lower paid staff. And every doctor I've met thinks the 1% currently being proposed for our colleagues is ludicrous and should be much higher.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:48 |
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I think the preferred state of being is where you live in a society that provides you with exceptionally good conditions but where you go around believing that you did it all yourself and tell everyone else that they can't have the society that helped you and then you die before you have to experience a moment of realization and then everyone else has to deal with living in the society you destroyed. And regrettably, yudkowsky was wrong and we will never invent a computer hell specifically to put those people in it.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:49 |
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Yeah, that link I posted mentions thatquote:Marshall was employed by the US Army’s Historical Section, and his job as an army historian was the compilation of battlefield narratives. Systematically compiling and analyzing statistical data was not what the Historical Section was about, nor was it something for which Marshall had any interest or training. This makes Marshall’s statistics, at best, an estimation based upon personal observations. And with no surviving notes or documentation that would substantiate his claims, and no corroborating evidence from Marshall’s companions, there is only Marshall’s word that his claims regarding the ratio of fire were supported by the empirical evidence of his interviews. Marshall had a hot take around the narrative that was going on, rather than hard statistical evidence, and it was built into Killology by Grossman, but is nowhere near the kind of extraordinary evidence you need to make the kind of claims that he's making. It's one of those things that tells a nice story about humanity, it's nice to think that we don't want to go around killing each other, but it has dangerous consequence of making others think that you have to somehow instill that into certain occupations.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:53 |
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Never forget that some moron Randian businessman in the USA funded a trilogy of film adaptations of Atlas Shrugged each film with a successively smaller budget and worst critical reception. e: a quick check on wikipedia reveals $35m went in to the budgets and $9m was made at the box office. Womp womp.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:54 |
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The company I work for went employee-owned, the main practical implication of which for me is that I get paid less since bonus pay is now based on seniority rather than performance, with stricter eligibility rules as well. The senior management/founders still effectively retain control through the representation system they chose, so the workplace democracy aspect is a bit meaningless. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 16:06 on May 12, 2021 |
# ? May 12, 2021 15:55 |
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Never forget that some moron Randian businessman in the USA funded a trilogy of film adaptations of Atlas Shrugged each film with a successively smaller budget and worst critical reception.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:56 |
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Never forget that some moron Randian businessman in the USA funded a trilogy of film adaptations of Atlas Shrugged each film with a successively smaller budget and worst critical reception. Could be money laundering too.
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# ? May 12, 2021 15:56 |
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jaete posted:Sorry wait, what?
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# ? May 12, 2021 16:05 |
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I find it hilarious how now that younger generations are fully dependant on inheritance to maybe ever own a house there's been a noticeable uptick among people I know's elderly relatives suddenly deciding 'i can't take it with me' and that the only sensible thing to do is to spend all their money and enjoy their last years. Literally a generation that hoarded wealth to the point it broke the economy and then said gently caress it and spaffed it all away on leisure once their descendants were fully dependant.
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# ? May 12, 2021 16:22 |
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Algol Star posted:I find it hilarious how now that younger generations are fully dependant on inheritance to maybe ever own a house there's been a noticeable uptick among people I know's elderly relatives suddenly deciding 'i can't take it with me' and that the only sensible thing to do is to spend all their money and enjoy their last years. Literally a generation that hoarded wealth to the point it broke the economy and then said gently caress it and spaffed it all away on leisure once their descendants were fully dependant. At least that wealth has been redistributed into the hands of *checks notes* the owners of cruise ships and hotels.
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# ? May 12, 2021 16:30 |
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Very excited to live my life to the fullest by the time I am, what, seventy?
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# ? May 12, 2021 16:31 |
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jaete posted:Sorry wait, what? I don't know how I could have put it clearer.
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# ? May 12, 2021 16:32 |
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Brendan Rodgers posted:Could be money laundering too. That would assume these idiots would think that an epic trilogy of Ayn Rand's greatest work would be anything but a massive commercial success.
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# ? May 12, 2021 16:44 |
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radmonger posted:That better describes the people who are currently unable to vote. There was a big statistical discussion on that a few monthly threads back,, and the take away message was that that number dwarfs the vote difference between the parties. it was partly activated in 2017, which is why Corbyn did unexpectedly well. You're somehow getting wronger. These people *can vote now*. All you need to vote at the moment is an address permanent enough to get post at to register (and there are even options for those without even that). After these changes, you will need that *and* all of the documentation and time required to get ID *and* the cash for a valid ID - even assuming best-case scenario that they're able to get a provisional license that's 50 quid, or almost an entire week's JSA for under-25s. I want to re-emphasise this - even if the Tories have a sudden fit of generosity and decide to make ID sufficient to vote completely free, it is still a substantial disenfranchisement for people at the very bottom of society.
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# ? May 12, 2021 17:06 |
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:And when that doesn't work out as expected - some place people tried living in a Randian community and it all went wrong - can't remember where - you end up on Welfare as did Ayn Rand.
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# ? May 12, 2021 17:27 |
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jabby posted:This is a good post and I want to acknowledge it, but I would add that nobody was asking anyone to feel "sympathetic" towards senior consultants. That's a complete straw man argument that was directed at me. The whole argument started with peanut accusing doctors of hijacking discussions about NHS pay to the detriment of our colleagues, and of being "well connected" and frequently "bought off" by the government. Then when I tried to refute that it took a rapid turn into nonsense about 200k salaries and retiring at 60 followed swiftly by accusing me of wanting more money. Am I right in thinking GPs are different; that that they own their practises, are independent of the NHS and contract out to the NHS for business?
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# ? May 12, 2021 17:27 |
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# ? May 24, 2024 07:46 |
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Guavanaut posted:Sounds like the beliefs popularized by 'On Killing' and 'Killology'. I can't find the video now, but Beau of the Fifth Column seems pretty confident that the 4% number is right, and given his background I'd trust his assessment. He said it's corroborated by other sources.
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# ? May 12, 2021 17:30 |