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If you wanna be pedantic, under Riki Choshu is was called the Sasorigatame, which translates to well, Scorpionlock.
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May 12, 2021 16:12
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1glitch0 posted:Having learned only weeks ago from this thread that the Sharpshooter was branded for Bret Hart (apparently 30 years wasn't long enough for me to put 2+2 together) and Sting called it the Scorpion Death Lock what exactly is the actual name for that move? Surely people used it before Bret and Sting. It was always funny as a kid to find out who watched more WCW or more WWF in what they called it. (The Scorpion Death Lock. I live in South Carolina, sue me.)
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May 12, 2021 16:13
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Red posted:
It wasn't a surprise at all. The lawsuit had been going on for years and they had knowingly breached their previous agreement with the Fund.
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May 12, 2021 16:31
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Red posted:3. The situation with the titles seemed a little confusing; the major titles were defended on both brands, but the other titles were show-specific, and it later changed a ton, what with new titles, titles changing shows, etc. I hated the idea of show-specific belts, and would've preferred just a few champions (World, IC, Tag, Women's) which were available to both brands, but oh well. If I remember right, at the time of the split, they had a ton of belts (Cruiser, Euro, Hardcore), and the latter two were combined into the IC belt, somehow. 1. Undisputed WWF Championship, unified with the WCW world championship by Chris Jericho in December 2001. Held by Triple H at the time of the draft. 2. Intercontinental Championship, unified with the WCW US championship by Edge in November 2001. Held by Rob Van Dam at the time of the draft 3. European Championship, held by William Regal at the time of the draft 4. Cruiserweight Championship, unified from the WCW Cruiserweight championship/WWF Light Heavyweight championship by X-pac in July 2001 5. Hardcore Championship, held by Raven at the time of the draft Triple H debuted a singular Undisputed Championship belt on April 1, 2002 after beating Chris Jericho for the two belts at Wrestlemania. He lost the belt to Hulk Hogan two weeks later, who lost it to Undertaker in May, who in turn lost it to Rock in July, to set up Brock Lesnar's coronation at Summerslam 2002. After Lesnar won the belt, it was declared Smackdown-only. In September 2002, Eric Bischoff unveiled the WWE World Heavyweight Championship, which was granted to Triple H as a Raw-only championship. Meanwhile in July 2002, Jeff Hardy won the European championship off of Regal, then two weeks later lost a match to Rob Van Dam unifying the belts but just calling it the Intercontinental Championship. The Hardcore belt changed hands over one hundred times under 24/7 rules before landing on Tommy Dreamer in August 2002, and the 24/7 rule was eliminated and they announced another title unification match, with RVD beating Dreamer and so at the time of HHH being handed the Big Gold Belt, the Intercontinental, US, European, and Hardcore belts had all merged into one title. September 9, 2002: IC (+3) champion Rob Van Dam won a four way elimination match to become the #1 Contender to Triple H's World Heavyweight title. September 16, 2002: Chris Jericho (who six months ago was feuding with HHH for the world title at Wrestlemania and is now in cahoots/a lackey for HHH) beats Rob Van Dam for the IC (+3) title thanks to interference from HHH September 22, 2002: Triple H defeats Rob Van Dam to retain the WHC belt when Ric Flair turns heel and aligns with HHH September 30, 2002: Kane defeats Chris Jericho for the IC (+3) championship after botched interference from HHH October 20, 2002: Triple H defeats Kane in a unification match after copious interference from Flair, unifying the the WHC/IC/US/Euro/Hardcore belts under Triple H. All of that happened in under a year. The cruiserweight belt was actually treated as a real (minor) belt on Smackdown, hipping between Kidman, Tajiri, Hurricane, Jamie Noble, Matt Hardy, and Rey Mysterio for the first year or so. By 2004 it was being sporadically defended and won by Jacqueline and Chavo Guerrero Senior, and by 2007 Hornswoggle won it and it disappeared. The unified belt thing lasted less than a year before "Sherrif" Steve Austin declared the IC belt was coming back and Christian won it in a battle royal in May 2003. A couple of months later Smackdown held a tournament to crown a revived US champion.
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May 12, 2021 16:44
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Fun fact: that huge Triple H vs Kane feud to unite the World and IC titles? Yeah, that was the Katie Vick feud. 2002 was not a good year for WWE (or Raw at least).
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May 12, 2021 17:14
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Stone Cold leaving and the Brand Split/HHH reign of terror is the last major stretch I remember before bailing until the CM Punk Pipebomb. So 2003ish to mid-2011 is a blindspot for me when it comes to WWE; was there ANY gold in there? Or is it just fond memories of some good stuff (Smackdown 6, the early ECW revival attempts, Edge’s big heel push) in a sea of garbage?
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May 12, 2021 17:19
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What they should've done with the initial 2002 brand split was: The WWF Unified World Title, The Women's Title, and The World Tag Team cross brands, Then in the meantime: Make the Intercontinental Title the top belt on RAW Make the European Title the top belt on Smackdown RAW would have the Hardcore Title as a "specialty" division Smackdown would have the Cruiserweight Title as their "specialty" division.
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May 12, 2021 17:24
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BodyMassageMachine posted:Stone Cold leaving and the Brand Split/HHH reign of terror is the last major stretch I remember before bailing until the CM Punk Pipebomb. So 2003ish to mid-2011 is a blindspot for me when it comes to WWE; was there ANY gold in there? Or is it just fond memories of some good stuff (Smackdown 6, the early ECW revival attempts, Edge’s big heel push) in a sea of garbage? - Brock got over and had some really good matches, usually with the aforementioned Smackdown 6 but I remember him doing surprisingly well with Taker, Big Show and Cena too. The ironman title match with Angle (on Smackdown!) might be my favourite ironman match ever. - They continued their trend of putting multiman clusterfuck TLC matches on free TV with no build-up. These were usually very entertaining (involving the likes of Chris Jericho, Christian, RVD, the Dudleys, etc) even if they were unnecessary and usually resulted in someone getting injured. - The Rock's heel run in 2003. It probably didn't get as over as it needed to with casual fans, many of whom were simply not interested in booing The Rock, but he was amazing in the role and a bunch of the segments he did (stuff with The Hurricane, The Rock Concert, "SINGALONG TIME WITH THE ROCK IS OVER!") are all-time classics. - Shawn vs Angle at Wrestlemania is one of my favourite matches of all time. - I remember the first few Money in the Bank matches being very good. - Jericho's Highlight Reel is probably the best entry in the long-running attempts to recapture the magic of Piper's Pit and it resulted in some fun segments, culminating in his memorable heel turn against Shawn after his return. But you might notice that these are pretty much all isolated "moments".. Hedgehog Pie fucked around with this message at 17:49 on May 12, 2021 |
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May 12, 2021 17:43
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I feel like Brock was the only one smart enough to look at the rules of an Ironman match, lose one fall to beat his opponent silly with a chair, then take two falls pinning his corpse
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May 12, 2021 17:44
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1glitch0 posted:Having learned only weeks ago from this thread that the Sharpshooter was branded for Bret Hart (apparently 30 years wasn't long enough for me to put 2+2 together) and Sting called it the Scorpion Death Lock what exactly is the actual name for that move? Surely people used it before Bret and Sting. Yeah, the whole Hitman/Sharpshooter made me go  as well. Who knew wrestling had layers?
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May 12, 2021 18:37
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Silly Burrito posted:Yeah, the whole Hitman/Sharpshooter made me go Have you considered the similar layers in the nickname The Excellence of Execution?
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May 12, 2021 18:40
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Am I the only one who would just prefer one World's champion in a Federation? None of this Universal crap. One major belt, one mid-major belt, a tag team championship, and maybe a TV belt. Having a separate Men's/Women's version is understandable but I just think two heavyweight championships just dilute each other.
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May 12, 2021 18:41
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Ganso Bomb posted:Have you considered the similar layers in the nickname The Excellence of Execution? The best there is!
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May 12, 2021 18:42
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I saw someone do a Sharpshooter in a match from the 40s; I think it was Dick Shikat. I believe the commentator just called it a deathlock, but who knows what the wrestlers called it.
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May 12, 2021 19:26
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Hedgehog Pie posted:- The Rock's heel run in 2003. It probably didn't get as over as it needed to with casual fans, many of whom were simply not interested in booing The Rock, but he was amazing in the role and a bunch of the segments he did (stuff with The Hurricane, The Rock Concert, "SINGALONG TIME WITH THE ROCK IS OVER!") are all-time classics. I did not see a lot from this era as the Trips stuff burned me out, but I do remember a segment during the Rock/Hurricane thing where the Rock opened his locker, saw Hurricane in it, closed the door and took a deep breath and the comedic timing was just chef's kiss.
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May 12, 2021 19:27
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Didn’t Triple H spend about a month or two absolutely murdering Hurricane and all the heat he had once the Rock left again? I remember it being really loving blatant.
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May 12, 2021 19:36
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Silly Burrito posted:Am I the only one who would just prefer one World's champion in a Federation? None of this Universal crap. One major belt, one mid-major belt, a tag team championship, and maybe a TV belt. Having a separate Men's/Women's version is understandable but I just think two heavyweight championships just dilute each other. This is a Correct Opinion, yes.
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May 12, 2021 20:02
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Hedgehog Pie posted:
IIRC the reason the Rock turned heel is the crowds started to turn on him when his movie career started taking off and it was looking like he'd only be part time. Problem was Rock as a heel still has massive charisma and it didn't take long for his heel act to get face pops
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May 12, 2021 20:06
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Hedgehog Pie posted:
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May 12, 2021 20:41
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Davros1 posted:What they should've done with the initial 2002 brand split was: Swap the European Title out for the US Championship and I'm pretty much right there with you. That said I wouldn't mind 2 Tag Team titles on different brands, so they can cross-over at Wrestlemania, Summerslam, and Survivor series as a yearly "best of 3" thing, just to give some story between the brands and set up the inevitable "War story" down the line... but I'm a big Tag Team fan, so that's my excuse.
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May 12, 2021 21:01
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Silly Burrito posted:Am I the only one who would just prefer one World's champion in a Federation? None of this Universal crap. One major belt, one mid-major belt, a tag team championship, and maybe a TV belt. Having a separate Men's/Women's version is understandable but I just think two heavyweight championships just dilute each other. my friend light the fuse.
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May 12, 2021 21:02
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BodyMassageMachine posted:Stone Cold leaving and the Brand Split/HHH reign of terror is the last major stretch I remember before bailing until the CM Punk Pipebomb. So 2003ish to mid-2011 is a blindspot for me when it comes to WWE; was there ANY gold in there? Or is it just fond memories of some good stuff (Smackdown 6, the early ECW revival attempts, Edge’s big heel push) in a sea of garbage?
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May 12, 2021 21:02
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i would also prefer that they go back to calling people the world's champion, who holds the world's championship. it was classy
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May 12, 2021 21:08
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LionYeti posted:The Rocks go home promo in Sacramento is a masterpiece. "The best part about being in Sacramento is that in about an hour and a half, the Rock is going to Leeeeeeeeeeeave Sacramento!" I always remember after his last match getting trucked by Goldberg, Rock gets the mic. "The Rock ain't never been whupped that fast in his life"
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May 12, 2021 21:11
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Vagabundo posted:Do I dare ask what the consequences are if D'Lo detaches his own head?
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May 12, 2021 22:18
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MassRafTer posted:It wasn't a surprise at all. The lawsuit had been going on for years and they had knowingly breached their previous agreement with the Fund. I feel like I've read someone try to sell it as Vince doing it on purpose to get the name change moving, but I have no idea what the gently caress actually happened.
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May 12, 2021 23:10
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Was watching some old Nitros recently and got me thinking... was Scott Steiner legit loving his freaks?
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May 12, 2021 23:31
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The Grey posted:Was watching some old Nitros recently and got me thinking... was Scott Steiner legit loving his freaks? MAN YOU AIN'T BIG POP I'M THE BIG BAD BOOTY DADDY INGININNA-UNSTOPPABUH
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May 12, 2021 23:34
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SatoshiMiwa posted:IIRC the reason the Rock turned heel is the crowds started to turn on him when his movie career started taking off and it was looking like he'd only be part time. Problem was Rock as a heel still has massive charisma and it didn't take long for his heel act to get face pops Yeah, he first left after WM17 in 2001 to do The Mummy Returns. He came back during the Invasion and was mostly still very over, I think largely because fans just wanted a super face to cheer again in lieu of Austin, and he had good chemistry with Booker and Jericho. There was already the feeling that he wasn't going to stick around though, even for me, and I was only 11-12 at the time. He got massively booed at WM18 due to a rabidly nostalgic crowd being happy to see Hogan again (which he cited in a promo a year later when they returned to Toronto) and up until he left again for The Scorpion King after putting over Lesnar a few months later, I feel like he was cooling off more and more. Then there was the horrible Raw 10th anniversary show in January 2003, where he did a "live" satellite promo. The few fans in attendance (it was held in their restaurant property on Times Square) reacted very negatively to it, since it was obvious how lazy and pre-taped it was. He also brought this up when he came back, since Austin had been declared "superstar of the decade" over him at this show. As much as I love that heel run though, I feel like some of the core conceits were mostly directed at hardcore/longtime fans, who had gotten tired of him first in the same way they would get tired of Cena a few years later. Hogan's nostalgia run, inspired by the huge response he got at WM18, turned out to be short-term affair, and the reactions balanced out afterwards. One of the main gripes from hardcore fans was that he was leaning too much on his catchphrases and that they were old hat at this point, but most crowds were still eating them up I think. Also, there are clips of Rock during his heel run where he'd break character after the show, giving the fans there an opportunity to cheer him. It was great, but I'm not sure if it could've lasted any longer than it did.
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May 12, 2021 23:58
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LionYeti posted:The Rocks go home promo in Sacramento is a masterpiece. "The best part about being in Sacramento is that in about an hour and a half, the Rock is going to Leeeeeeeeeeeave Sacramento!" Not to mention the song insulting Sacramento that was actually getting cheers until the final punchline.
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May 13, 2021 00:18
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It's also funny in hindsight, but there was a small but vocal contingent of people in 2000-2001 who were sick of The Old Guard Main Eventers (Undertaker, Kane, Triple H, Austin, Rock) always being on top and never putting over new main eventers. Exactly a year before the Invasion PPV, WWF touted a "Triple Main Event" at Fully Loaded of Rock vs. Benoit, Triple H vs. Jericho, and Undertaker vs. Angle where the established main eventers won all three matches, much to the anger of online fans. Fast forward to the Invasion, and one of the Rock's last feuds (dovetailing into the Hogan match at WM18) was a story where Chris Jericho was jealous of the Rock waltzing being in Hollywood and missing the opening months of the Invasion and getting a WCW world title shot immediately. Jericho eventually earned a title shot where the narrative was that Jericho was a b-lister and not championship material, and it was incredibly obviously leaning to a Jericho heel turn, which it did, but for the matches building to his eventual heel turn I remember the reactions being a lot more mixed than I think the WWF expected. I'm mainly pointing this out to say that "these fickle fans THINK they want these little midcarders to get a main event push, but we know better!" has been playing out for twenty years, and people were vocally getting sick of Austin/Rock/HHH 'being on top forever' after 2-4 years of them dominating the main event. If only they knew what was to come.
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May 13, 2021 00:39
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Red posted:I feel like I've read someone try to sell it as Vince doing it on purpose to get the name change moving, but I have no idea what the gently caress actually happened. Vince negotiated in bad faith, as he'd done before and since, and agreed to not use WWF as a major branding then plastered it everywhere.
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May 13, 2021 00:57
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Edge & Christian posted:It's also funny in hindsight, but there was a small but vocal contingent of people in 2000-2001 who were sick of The Old Guard Main Eventers (Undertaker, Kane, Triple H, Austin, Rock) always being on top and never putting over new main eventers. Exactly a year before the Invasion PPV, WWF touted a "Triple Main Event" at Fully Loaded of Rock vs. Benoit, Triple H vs. Jericho, and Undertaker vs. Angle where the established main eventers won all three matches, much to the anger of online fans. I remember being irritated by all 3 finishes, especially Benoit, but at least they weren't burials, and Benoit got the Dusty Finish. Rock and Benoit had some great chemistry, but then, Rock seemed to work well with everyone. I'm glad he got to work with Bret before he left.
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May 13, 2021 01:14
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Red posted:I feel like I've read someone try to sell it as Vince doing it on purpose to get the name change moving, but I have no idea what the gently caress actually happened. If memory serves Vince started going after fans who used wwf in their domain name, like wwfaustin.com, etc., and one of the stips of WWF allowing Vince to use it is that he had no actual legal right to it, so when he started suing people, WWF was like, "um you know you don't own this, right?"
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May 13, 2021 03:12
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Vagabundo posted:Do I dare ask what the consequences are if D'Lo detaches his own head?
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May 13, 2021 03:24
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1glitch0 posted:If memory serves Vince started going after fans who used wwf in their domain name, like wwfaustin.com, etc., and one of the stips of WWF allowing Vince to use it is that he had no actual legal right to it, so when he started suing people, WWF was like, "um you know you don't own this, right?" I thought it was they had come to an agreement that Vince could use the "WWF" initials in the US, but worldwide it had to be clarified "World Wrestling Federation". So when Vince registered "WWF.com", the animal people saw that as a violation of that agreement since the domain name was accessible all over the world.
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May 13, 2021 03:34
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Davros1 posted:I thought it was they had come to an agreement that Vince could use the "WWF" initials in the US, but worldwide it had to be clarified "World Wrestling Federation". So when Vince registered "WWF.com", the animal people saw that as a violation of that agreement since the domain name was accessible all over the world. More details here: https://babyfacevheel.substack.com/p/heres-the-real-story-of-how-the-wwf
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May 13, 2021 03:41
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davidbix posted:Vince had already been violating it, but the WWF.com domain name was considered an egregious violation. The switch to the scratch logo was also an issue, though not for the reason people think: Contrary to urban legend, it had nothing to do with the Fund having right of refusal over new logos. It was simply a matter of how the scratch logo was much easier to read as "WWF" than the block logo, which was commonly misread as "WF," even by licensees like GoodTimes Home Video. So it was kinda unavoidable then? Like, the World Wrestling Fed was going to eventually have to get a website. Maybe Vince could have sweet talked them or something, I dunno.
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May 13, 2021 03:49
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Davros1 posted:I thought it was they had come to an agreement that Vince could use the "WWF" initials in the US, but worldwide it had to be clarified "World Wrestling Federation". I didn't know any details about the behind the scenes stuff with the Fund at the time, but I figured it had to have something to do with them because the change was so abrupt and weird.
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May 13, 2021 03:59
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1glitch0 posted:So it was kinda unavoidable then? Like, the World Wrestling Fed was going to eventually have to get a website. Maybe Vince could have sweet talked them or something, I dunno.
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May 13, 2021 04:06
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