|
I appreciate that great portions of the nation are poor as gently caress and without hope but there has to be more to it than that or most of the country would be on fire all the time. i grew up in a poor working class environment and never once thought about setting a car on fire. More fool me i suppose. I certainly don't think this was just VIOLENT THUGS but I think trying to blame this all on economic status risks labeling every poor person as some kind of mad animal, always on the edge of just losing it and rioting. I don't even know if the rioters knew the kid that died. And if they liked or dislike him, or if that had anything to do with anything? It probably didn't help that everyone hid. Including the police. A whole street just gave up. Would they have been beaten or killed if they'd have actually confronted this seemingly random group? I doubt it but who knows. The way everything was confined to property damage implies to me that they were exploiting the situation of every adult, and the police, just giving up. Being poor sucks. The pandemic has kicked me back towards an era i'd rather not revisit. But it's not really a reason to go madmax. The police suck poo poo but the reality of this is that we've got to think about how, from a leftist perspective, we deal with this poo poo. Because all signs point to increasing hardship, at least in the near future. Which means communities have got to get use to dealing with their own poo poo. Which also potentially means getting acid in the face or stabbed. No i'm not hopeful about any of this tbh.
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 23:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 12:32 |
|
|
https://twitter.com/ClickHole/status/1395767590195187717
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 23:34
|
|
|
Poor people would be a lot cooler if we were always on the verge of rioting tbh. Also: lol https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1395864519419875332
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 23:35
|
|
|
Forging bank statements seems pretty illegal, is Bashir going to end up in jail?
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 23:56
|
|
|
No. The cops decided not to do anything decades ago (back when it was relevant)
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 00:02
|
|
|
They definitely decided to do something during Orgreave. And not do something during Hillsborough. And do something with Travellers. And not do something with Savile. Do. Or do not. There is definitely selectivity.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 00:08
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/MatticusFinch10/status/1395426894447845380
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 04:34
|
|
|
I mean isn’t that how Capita got it’s name
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 07:40
|
|
|
a pipe smoking dog posted:I think Borrovan already covered it but basically Mayhill is the poorest most downtrodden part of a poor and downtrodden city. If you're a kid growing up in Mayhill the chance to burn a car down is probably the most fun you're going to have all year and the police apparently decided it wasn't worth the trouble so just hosed off and let them get on with it. I think I’d have more/any sympathy for the ‘society is broken let’s riot’ viewpoint if they hadn’t also put through the windows on a house with screaming children inside.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 07:43
|
|
|
The children were screaming "capitalism is great" though.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 08:31
|
|
|
That's the old Spitting Image joke about the SDP/Liberal merger.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 08:32
|
|
|
Riots can be a symptom and expression of discontent, politically useful to those of us opposing the status quo and bad for the people affected by them all at the same time. You can sympathise with the rioters being trapped in a system that made them want to riot and also say it was bad that they destroyed poor people's property and made life shittier for those around them simultaneously.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 08:45
|
|
|
Total Meatlove posted:I think I’d have more/any sympathy for the ‘society is broken let’s riot’ viewpoint if they hadn’t also put through the windows on a house with screaming children inside. I Googled the Swansea Riot to see for myself. A number of the videos featured "a dog being set on fire." I decided that I didn't need to see that, so for anyone going to look into the riots be forewarned that is circulating.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 09:21
|
|
|
ah. they're total scum then and need to be dealt with.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 09:33
|
|
|
The Question IRL posted:I Googled the Swansea Riot to see for myself. https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/dog-appeared-flames-not-been-20650824 The video of the dog supposedly on fire is linked, it's just an orange dog lit up by police van headlights that got circulated on twitter in low-res video. No dogs were set on fire.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 10:09
|
|
|
Everything that this thread hates about the BBC is happening to other public institutions like the NHS etc too. The directorship is stacked by ideologues appointed either directly or not by the governing party of the day (i.e tories) much like a less permanent/public version of the supreme court in the US. They are extremely vulnerable to appointees by poo poo governments, but that's basically where it ends. The left blaming the BBC is a serious foot-gun imo. It's exactly like blaming the NHS for waiting times, another Tory trick which fortunately hasn't entirely stuck. If the Tories dismantle the BBC, the next thing will be OFCOM, which in turn will be Channel 4. GB news and/or Murdoch etc will not just be mainstream, but literally the only choice in the UK. Things could get much, much, much worse than they are.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 10:09
|
|
|
jabby posted:https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/dog-appeared-flames-not-been-20650824 Lol. As an owner of a blonde dog I just remember to be vigilant in case she accidentally looks like she's on fire in certain lighting
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 10:12
|
|
|
jiggerypokery posted:Everything that this thread hates about the BBC is happening to other public institutions like the NHS etc too. The directorship is stacked by ideologues appointed either directly or not by the governing party of the day (i.e tories) much like a less permanent/public version of the supreme court in the US. They are extremely vulnerable to appointees by poo poo governments, but that's basically where it ends. Socialists shouldn't really dedicate much time to saving utterly flawed and adversarial institutions like the BBC. It's the state broadcaster in a capitalist state - it'll never go as far as we need media to go and so while it may not be a suitable target (except for furious venting about how its failing in its halfhearted attempts to be a public broadcaster) it's not something that's strategically important to defend. If you're worried about monopolisation of the media by far right elements then spend your time supporting local investigative media and spreading leftwing media collectives to try and create that alternative media ecosystem which does things people will listen to, rather than looking at the pitiful state of the BBC and saying that's all we have left between us and oblivion. This is different from other institutions like the NHS because it's impossible to duplicate the variety of provision for health on an independant basis so the level of struggle has to be over the national institution itself, it's merely insanely hard to develop an audience for media. On a more principled based argument, it's vastly more important to defend the ability (and therefore right) to criticise power than to worry about the variety of speech in abstract. The BBC certainly doesn't enable criticisms of power, as it simply takes its cues from the existing media environment which is pro-government and generally right wing, and often blunts those criticisms so I don't see any innate value to it. namesake fucked around with this message at 11:29 on May 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 10:46
|
|
|
namesake posted:Socialists shouldn't really dedicate much time to saving utterly flawed and adversarial institutions like the BBC. It's the state broadcaster in a capitalist state - it'll never go as far as we need media to go and so while it may not be a suitable target (except for furious venting about how its failing in its halfhearted attempts to be a public broadcaster) it's not something that's strategically important to defend. It’s not dependent on advertising and speaking for myself I LOVE ad-free TV, especially for children. That in itself is worth defending.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 11:06
|
|
|
therattle posted:It’s not dependent on advertising and speaking for myself I LOVE ad-free TV, especially for children. That in itself is worth defending. I think most discussions, at least itt, of the BBC being poo poo is about its news division. I think everyone agrees that educational no-ad TV is a very good thing, or even making shows that aren't beholden to ad money/shareholders can be a very good thing.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 11:20
|
|
|
I'd guess that's probably because to most people the BBC is BBC News and nothing else. Like I don't instinctively think in terms of "BBC's Peaky Blinders" or "BBC's Doctor Who" or "BBC's Peppa Pig" or even "BBC's BBC Radio Leicester" even though it's right there in the name. The Brand sticks far more to their news programming. I'm not sure if that's a factor of modern fragmentation of media into a thousand internet streams or not, I can remember even in the 80s people talking about "the BBC" and meaning "the BBC news at 6 and what they see fit to tell people."
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 11:31
|
|
|
Yeah getting away from ads is great but the BBC only has a monopoly on it because subscription-funded services are quite rare, rather than only the BBC can do it. We need to move away from defending things which are actually pretty crappy because there's nothing better right now and making that better thing. That can't happen immediately but a key first step is people acknowledging that things like their support for the BBC are contingent on the lack of alternatives. That union funded tv channel that gets batted around (I think Beckett in Unite was talking about it in specifics recently?) could at least be a start on it. I bet they could commission some lol-worthy kids tv as well. Postman Pat but it's Una the Union Rep. namesake fucked around with this message at 11:37 on May 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 11:34
|
|
|
ooh i thought bbc stood for something else nevermind
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 11:37
|
|
|
If Boris must be Boris why not call him Alex?
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 11:39
|
|
|
namesake posted:I bet they could commission some lol-worthy kids tv as well. Postman Pat but it's Una the Union Rep.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 11:41
|
|
|
Miftan posted:I think most discussions, at least itt, of the BBC being poo poo is about its news division. I think everyone agrees that educational no-ad TV is a very good thing, or even making shows that aren't beholden to ad money/shareholders can be a very good thing. I know but that ignores an element of it which is useful and good, so for all the “gently caress the whole rotten edifice of the BBC” (which isn’t not singling out news, because comedy and drama have also been discussed), let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 11:47
|
|
|
I'm honestly amazed that the BBC has managed to stay ad-free for so long given how far all its other values have slid away from it. Adding adverts to paid/subscription content shouldn't be allowed to begin with but what can you do.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 11:48
|
|
|
Otoh the BBC is antidemocratic and malevolent state propaganda Otoh what if we didn't have terrible TV like Doctor who?
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 11:59
|
|
|
jiggerypokery posted:Everything that this thread hates about the BBC is happening to other public institutions like the NHS etc too. The directorship is stacked by ideologues appointed either directly or not by the governing party of the day (i.e tories) much like a less permanent/public version of the supreme court in the US. They are extremely vulnerable to appointees by poo poo governments, but that's basically where it ends. Again, actively expecting me to defend and care about an organisation that dosent just act neutrally but actively wants to harm me is pretty poo poo
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 12:02
|
|
|
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/21/real-water-alkalized-liver-illness-deathquote:Federal authorities have ordered a complete recall of the Las Vegas-based bottled water brand Real Water and ordered the company to surrender records in investigations of at least one death and multiple cases of liver illness among people who reported drinking it.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 12:05
|
|
|
Closing in on that 20 points https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1396057366265843721?s=21 e: what was the lowest Labour polled under Corbyn, out of interest?
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 12:07
|
|
|
jiggerypokery posted:Everything that this thread hates about the BBC is happening to other public institutions like the NHS etc too. The directorship is stacked by ideologues appointed either directly or not by the governing party of the day (i.e tories) much like a less permanent/public version of the supreme court in the US. They are extremely vulnerable to appointees by poo poo governments, but that's basically where it ends. The difference between the BBC and the NHS is that it is quite difficult to make free healthcare bad, it would be like if the NHS just shot you full of cynaide when you stepped through the door. Whereas state broadcast absolute horseshit, which is what the BBC has done for decades, is worse than no state broadcast.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 12:08
|
|
|
https://mobile.twitter.com/PolliticoUK/status/1396057308984131585 mr electable.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 12:09
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:The difference between the BBC and the NHS is that it is quite difficult to make free healthcare bad, Oh theyr tryin
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 12:09
|
|
|
Noxville posted:Closing in on that 20 points 18% apparently, July 2019 where the EU parliament vote had the party drop into third place in May and there wasn't any clear direction or fight back coming from the party. I think Starmer would really have to try to get it that low again tbh but 20 points behind is very achievable.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 12:19
|
|
|
jabby posted:https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/dog-appeared-flames-not-been-20650824 That is a relief to know that no dogs (or other animals) were set on fire.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 12:27
|
|
|
namesake posted:18% apparently, July 2019 where the EU parliament vote had the party drop into third place in May and there wasn't any clear direction or fight back coming from the party. You're talking absolute poo poo, mate
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 12:33
|
|
|
I think the week the CUK's first arrived it significantly dented labour's polling and even the the CUK's evaporated very quickly Labour's polling never fully recovered.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 12:46
|
|
|
Flayer posted:https://comresglobal.com/polls/britain-elects-westminster-voting-intention-july-2019/ https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/o8pit1boew/TheTimes_190703_VI_Trackers_w.pdf You should always compare the same polling company because they'll all have different weightings, of course some will be different from others. There's obviously some issues with this poll as Brexit Party vastly overperformed compared to reality but this is the lowest Labour polled under Corbyn. namesake fucked around with this message at 12:50 on May 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 12:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 12:32 |
|
|
namesake posted:https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/o8pit1boew/TheTimes_190703_VI_Trackers_w.pdf OTOH that’s actually still only 6 points behind the Tories, something Starmer would probably kill for right now.
|
|
#
?
May 22, 2021 12:50
|
|