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I could genuinely see him giving a ‘watch a chicken loving horse’ inspirational speech to cabinet.
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May 22, 2021 12:52
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It'd be really interesting to know the mood among the PLP right now. I can imagine a fair number are perfectly happy, because they have extremely safe seats and all that matters to them is their wing of the party being in charge. But there must be some who either genuinely want to win at some point or can see themselves losing their seat if Starmer's disastrous leadership actually goes into an election. I refuse to believe all of them genuinely think moving further to the right is the correct answer at this point.
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May 22, 2021 13:35
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they are hopelessly delusional imo. they are so off their heads they imagine they are flying through space in a flashy spacesuit and with rocket boots on that are fuelled by their own farts, but to all the rest of the world they are lying face down in a puddle of their own piss, in their underpants, flailing their arms and legs and mumbling d-ream lyrics
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May 22, 2021 13:38
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I don't think losing their seats would convince any of them that it was their lovely politics, they would just find something else to blame. The most important thing is that they are right, heaven and earth must move to make that so. It's basically praxeology.
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May 22, 2021 13:38
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I'm using thos forensic skills to find the last labour voters
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May 22, 2021 13:42
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Guavanaut posted:I'd guess that's probably because to most people the BBC is BBC News and nothing else. I think that might be true about most people in this thread, I definitely do not honk it’s true about most people in this country.
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May 22, 2021 14:01
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Comrade Fakename posted:I definitely do not honk Oh poo poo, don't tell me she's come back to life
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May 22, 2021 14:13
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crispix posted:they are hopelessly delusional imo. they are so off their heads they imagine they are flying through space in a flashy spacesuit and with rocket boots on that are fuelled by their own farts, but to all the rest of the world they are lying face down in a puddle of their own piss, in their underpants, flailing their arms and legs and mumbling d-ream lyrics I can't decide how many of the PLP are the deluded ideologues you describe and how many are principle-free careerists who mainly want money and power. Because if you're in the second group it must be starting to become obvious that going down Starmer's path is going to lead to neither, and you might actually have a better chance of advancement by appealing to the left. See: Andy Burnham.
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May 22, 2021 14:22
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I would be surprised if there are more than single digits of the careerists who are not also right wing ideologues who are incapable of veering left even if they wanted to. I think the kind of person to treat politics as a career and the kind of person to have lovely right wing politics are pretty 1:1. Careerism isn't value neutral, essentially. Or necessarily very rational either. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 15:09 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 22, 2021 14:25
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Oh poo poo, don't tell me she's come back to life Man, that’s quite a typo, and one I am morally obliged to leave untouched.
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May 22, 2021 14:42
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still amazed that Stella Creasy is so willfully ignorant of global history and so ideologically committed to Blairism that the first thing she associates the term 'New Deal' with is Blair's dogshit workfare scheme I know history ended in 1991 for these people, but holy heck, that's no reason to willingly ignore world history altogether Venomous fucked around with this message at 14:51 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 22, 2021 14:46
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Venomous posted:still amazed that Stella Creasy is so willfully ignorant of global history and so ideologically committed to Blairism that the first thing she associates the term 'New Deal' with is Blair's dogshit workfare scheme Her going "aaaaaaaaactually only weird political perverts have heard about the American New Deal, unlike the New Deal I was referring to" was so loving funny, because I am a weird political pervert, I was even on a New Deal for Young People course way back in the dark days of 2003 & holy poo poo I had completely forgotten the New Deal was a thing in this country. Because it was loving shite. That course was among the largest wastes of time I've ever experienced, hanging about in a grim office on an industrial estate while some idiot tries to explain how to use Word. gently caress, on one afternoon they took us to a driving range to hit golf balls? Never did work out what that was about.
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May 22, 2021 15:05
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The American New Deal is on the GSCE syllabus iirc. Lol.
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May 22, 2021 15:06
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forkboy84 posted:That course was among the largest wastes of time I've ever experienced, hanging about in a grim office on an industrial estate while some idiot tries to explain how to use Word. lol this was me on long term jobseekers in the early 2010s. such progress, wow, much employability
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May 22, 2021 15:12
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josh04 posted:The American New Deal is on the GSCE syllabus iirc. Lol. I'd love to see polling on how modern republicans feel about it
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May 22, 2021 15:14
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Stormgale posted:Again, actively expecting me to defend and care about an organisation that dosent just act neutrally but actively wants to harm me is pretty poo poo Dismantling the BBC gives market share to far worse organisations. There is a reason the tories want it gone. I'm very happy to support novara media et al and am not advocating actively defending the BBC, I'm just saying that the UK can and will get objectively worse, and one of the means by which that will happen is if we have a hyper partisan privately owned mainstream media like the US. If they successfully dismantle the BBC, next will be OFCOM then Channel 4, then what. The UK will be left only have a televised press that mirrors its cesspit of a printed press.
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May 22, 2021 15:30
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josh04 posted:The American New Deal is on the GSCE syllabus iirc. Lol.
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May 22, 2021 15:43
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I think even if you do take GCSE history there's some leeway in which of the modules the teacher gets to pick, unless Gove did away with all that. I remember it from mid-2000s. Looks like it's still there though: https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zxy3k2p/revision/8
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May 22, 2021 15:46
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jiggerypokery posted:Dismantling the BBC gives market share to far worse organisations. There is a reason the tories want it gone. This again assumes that the function of the BBC currently is not to grant legitimacy to far right politics by refusing to challenge them at every opportunity and pushing their positions with a more "respectable" veneer painted on. I think a fundamentally right wing and strategically deceitful organization that endeavours to buy goodwill and credibility is more dangerous than yet another far right screeching lunacy organization, there are already plenty of those. The more people stop trusting the BBC, the better, the more the BBC is rightly regarded as the worthless shithole it is, the better. What possible reason could it benefit us to support something that has at every turn used its platform to oppose us and everything we stand for? The BBC is not your friend, it is not serving any higher purpose, it is just another lovely right wing rag that appeals to a different brand of idiot than the other shithole publications do. And no, a lovely hack "comedy" or "drama" department isn't worth anything either. You'll live without more bloody doctor who episodes. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:19 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 22, 2021 16:15
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someone post the comrade corbyn splash the beeb made
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May 22, 2021 16:25
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There will never be a left-wing media outlet that reaches a wide audience. The existing right-wing media outlets will strangle anything that tries to emerge in the crib, in much the same way as they're doing with the BBC now (albeit this is them strangling a leper). The BBC can be made better - if a left-wing government can get into power, it could pass legislation that could do a much better job of enforcing some sort of neutral/balanced reporting. If you get rid of the BBC now, it'll be far harder in future to create anything that can amplify a left-wing message, and all the public will be able to hear is the fascist press running their usual screeds.
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May 22, 2021 16:39
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If a hypothetical left wing government cannot attack the private news sector and is reliant on trying to make the BBC into something good then it is already dead in the water. This ignoring the pretty self evident truth that the BBC has been absolute dogshit for longer than I have been alive so the idea that it "could be good" is extremely debatable. Perhaps the entire concept of a state operated news service is inherently poo poo? Just as much as a privately owned one is. Perhaps there is something about that structure of an organization that makes it utterly untrustworthy to handle information provision because it will always default to supporting the government when the government should not be supported? You wouldn't say that the security services could be made good somehow, I assume, so it seems weird to say it about the government's propaganda arm. If you are going to get a left wing government is is going to have to come predicated on a critical mass of people rejecting the mainstream media environment because it is all right wing. If you have reached that point it seems weird to me to say we then want to invest in a state controlled media outlet that will only say good things. Because that to me seems very ahistorical because that's not how state controlled media outlets have ever worked. They are all structurally disposed to being just some kind of propaganda. I do not think you can have good information provision from that sort of structure, because by its very nature it relies on people not thinking critically and just accepting the content because of the branding of the publication. Good information provision in a society I think has to be decentralized and it has to rely on a level of critical thought and communality among receivers of the information to weigh whether or not it is true, and I think that the very nature of large scale broadcasters is antithetical to this. If people "trust" any institution they are simply adopting a mode of thought that prevents them from being critical of the information they are exposed to. I do not think there can possibly be a viable model based on institutional trust, trust must be constantly reasessed. This is just as true with left wing media, there's plenty of freaks like greenwald who apparently once had institutional trust and as a result still retain a grossly disproportionate following of people who are simply not willing to reexamine that trust. So for us, telling people they can or should trust any individual source is a losing proposition, I think. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:07 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 22, 2021 16:44
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Oh look: https://twitter.com/dominic2306/status/1396113145341612040
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May 22, 2021 16:59
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OwlFancier posted:I don't think losing their seats would convince any of them that it was their lovely politics, they would just find something else to blame. The tweets blaming corbyn have basically already been written.
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May 22, 2021 17:00
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Wasn't he in charge before lockdown 1?
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May 22, 2021 17:01
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jiggerypokery posted:Wasn't he in charge before lockdown 1? There's still literally no proof that this is actually him (i.e. acknowledgement from other accounts known to be associated with Cummings like his weirdo Odyssean Project twitter that he blanked not long after the start of the pandemic) and in particular it's often been considerably behind the curve when Cummings has been in the news "officially". Not saying it's *not* him - and it's an extremely weird long con if it's not - just that it should be given about the same weight as any random alleged ITK account whether it's talking about football transfers or the secret underground adrenochrome farms.
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May 22, 2021 17:18
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OwlFancier posted:If a hypothetical left wing government cannot attack the private news sector and is reliant on trying to make the BBC into something good then it is already dead in the water. Porque no los dos. I really really don't think that a world without media organisations is one we want. Private media needs funding like charities or the Arts Council provides tbh. Someone has to be able to investigate corruption and poo poo with the backing to deal with inevitable litigation. I just don't see a handful of youtube channels being able to weather the storm of dropping a story like the phone hacking scandal. On publicly owned media... Channel 4 is state owned but has senior leadership appointed by OFCOM rather than directly by the government. Again, that is surely a better model than a hydra of murdoch owned/similar networks.
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May 22, 2021 17:22
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jiggerypokery posted:Dismantling the BBC gives market share to far worse organisations. There is a reason the tories want it gone. The BBC is doing a fine job attacking me and legitimising hate against me, your implication that the rest will be worse is slightly counterfactual. The fact the BBC is seen as neutral and launders transphobia is bad.
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May 22, 2021 17:25
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The UK independent film sector would be hosed without BBC Films and Film4.
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May 22, 2021 17:26
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I posted a bit ago about the anti-rascim group that I'm in that split into 2 and one half is totally insane. It's gone full on antivaxx now, posting stories about the syphilis trials in the US as the reasoning not to get vaccinations. Its all incredible stuff.
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May 22, 2021 17:29
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jiggerypokery posted:Porque no los dos. What investigative journalism? When has investigative journalism ever made the slightest bit of difference about anything? Oh wow some journalists decided to report on things journalists had been doing for ages, what a loving win for journalism. People on the bloody street do better investigative journalism by filming poo poo on their phones and tweeting about it.
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May 22, 2021 17:33
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He's an awful piece of poo poo but I can't disagree with the assessment he makes on the Hacks. https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1396073101109207047?s=19 You see the problem is that Starmer is electable its just the idiot public doesn't get it.
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May 22, 2021 17:35
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Stormgale posted:The BBC is doing a fine job attacking me and legitimising hate against me, your implication that the rest will be worse is slightly counterfactual. This is a perfect example of the problem with the idea that the BBC (or *any* media outlet) is impartial and unbiased - a TERF being given free reign on Today or Newsnight, especially with the normal twisted BBC idea of "balance" by having a counterpoint offered by someone who just believes trans people should be ignored rather than actively hunted down, is far more damaging to trans people than Linehan screaming into the void on Twitter. However we come back to the same problems and arguments as parliamentarianism - the BBC can probably never be made perfect, or even much better, but tearing the entire edifice down right now is most definitely not going to lead to it being replaced by something better, so where does that leave us?
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May 22, 2021 17:36
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OwlFancier posted:What investigative journalism? When has investigative journalism ever made the slightest bit of difference about anything? My favourite kind of investigative journalism is when it turns out that thing everyone in the press knew was happening becomes undeniable and it turns into a poo poo flinging session to try and dump as much blame on the other guy as you can.
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May 22, 2021 17:39
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One might suggest that a necessry quality of being prime ministerial is being the prime minister, which starmer seems to be much further from than previous leaders. But perhaps this is a special kind of prime ministeriality that does not at all require proximity to the prime minister.
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May 22, 2021 17:41
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I think it's good this thread and the Tories have some common ground at least. Dismantle the biased and rotten to the core BBC.
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May 22, 2021 17:45
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goddamnedtwisto posted:However we come back to the same problems and arguments as parliamentarianism - the BBC can probably never be made perfect, or even much better, but tearing the entire edifice down right now is most definitely not going to lead to it being replaced by something better, so where does that leave us? Exactly. Just because the thing is bad does not mean the upshot of destroying it is better.
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May 22, 2021 17:48
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Aramoro posted:I think it's good this thread and the Tories have some common ground at least. Dismantle the biased and rotten to the core BBC. The problem is that the BBC thinks its rotten with left wing journalists even though people who are literal members of the Conservative party control all the different parts of the organisations news sector. So sorry to post twice from the same twitter thread but; Lol https://twitter.com/mrianleslie/status/1396073116221194242?s=19 See right now? See this massive plague that has upended our lives? See the Prime Minister openly saying "Let them all die, I don't give a gently caress, wetherspoons must stay open"? That's not real politics. No room to advance there. Let's wait until after the Plague and Boris Johnson claims he led us through it and we can get back to talking about what Muslims to bomb or means testing, then that's the real politics baby!
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May 22, 2021 17:54
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I think this is a lot like with Brexit. The EU is an irredeemably white supremacist construct, engaged in a genocidal campaign in the Mediterranean, tolerating and platforming fascist governments and punishing socialist ones, funding fascist groups in border states, dismantling trade unions, and promoting liberal capitalist economics. But the people who spearheaded leaving and the people who would manage any leaving process were somehow worse.
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May 22, 2021 17:56
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What part of the BBC is the equivalent of the UK's economic dependence on the EU? Because I don't think there is one.
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May 22, 2021 17:58
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