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OwlFancier posted:What part of the BBC is the equivalent of the UK's economic dependence on the EU? Because I don't think there is one.
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May 22, 2021 17:59
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Stormgale posted:The BBC is doing a fine job attacking me and legitimising hate against me, your implication that the rest will be worse is slightly counterfactual. Just what sort of guests are you expecting on GB news? The Tories want the BBC gone because they want a television media that looks like the US, a country in which Tucker Carson has the highest ratings of any television host. There are levels to normalised bigotry and just because things are bad doesn't mean they can't sink far deeper.
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May 22, 2021 17:59
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Guavanaut posted:It being terrible but anyone in any position to change it who is talking about changing is is even worse. I mean what thing does it provide that we can't do without? Again I am going to need someone to refute the idea that it isn't just another part of the right wing media machine and a particularly dangerous one precisely because of this inane idea that it is somehow "balanced" Let them rip the thing to pieces, let them turn it into a screaming hellhole, because I think that is less threatening than its current incarnation as a very effective respectability manufacturing machine for the exact same opinions.
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May 22, 2021 18:03
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OwlFancier posted:What part of the BBC is the equivalent of the UK's economic dependence on the EU? Because I don't think there is one. There is a massive difference between leaving the eu because of its murderous handling of African migration and leaving the eu because it isn't murderous enough to people from the ex soviet bloc, even if the paperwork is more or less the same.
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May 22, 2021 18:04
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Imagine if they dismantled the BBC, we might have to listen to Andrew Neil on the TV, can you imagine.
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May 22, 2021 18:05
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OwlFancier posted:Imagine if they dismantled the BBC, we might have to listen to Andrew Neil on the TV, can you imagine. Lol
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May 22, 2021 18:06
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OwlFancier posted:What part of the BBC is the equivalent of the UK's economic dependence on the EU? Because I don't think there is one. I think that would be the average person’s addiction to broadcast television.
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May 22, 2021 18:10
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jiggerypokery posted:Just what sort of guests are you expecting on GB news? Outright hatred has at least the possibility to be seen as what it is, wheras the BBC dropping faux neutrality on a story makes it much easier to launder transphobia. You can argue the BBC has more wins than losses and is better but to go "Oh well you should be so lucky the BBC is waging a slow campaign legitimising discrimination against you, it could be much worse" is frankly insulting.
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May 22, 2021 18:11
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If you want to take Brexit as a comparison seeing how we know how it ends then the best thing to have done would have had a strong Lexit campaign.
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May 22, 2021 18:12
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Stormgale posted:Outright hatred has at least the possibility to be seen as what it is, wheras the BBC dropping faux neutrality on a story makes it much easier to launder transphobia. It seems extremely hopeful at best to think people would see though outright hatred. Not many of Tuckers audience are seeing through poo poo.
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May 22, 2021 18:26
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I was very Lexit during the referendum, but had to vote for Remain because it was clear the result would be taken as a referendum on immigration.
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May 22, 2021 18:27
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Because they're already massive right wing freaks, the world is full of people like that and you're never going to win them over. The threat is in vehicles to get people to that point, which the BBC as it stands is a fine example of. You need an effective pipeline to funnel people further right and the BBC is a very useful component of that, which is why depsite having the ability to for a long time, the government hasn't made any major changes to it, because they know as well as I do that it is far more useful to them as it is.
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May 22, 2021 18:28
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Aramoro posted:It seems extremely hopeful at best to think people would see though outright hatred. Not many of Tuckers audience are seeing through poo poo. He's "just asking questions", after all
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May 22, 2021 18:29
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OwlFancier posted:Because they're already massive right wing freaks, the world is full of people like that and you're never going to win them over. So you think out right fascist media is better because at least its not a gateway drug to fascist media? You're gonna get media, it's not like you abolish the BBC and get nothing in its place.
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May 22, 2021 18:31
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If pure screaming hatred by itself was the most effective method then Graham Linehan would be the face of the UK's transphobia movement, but he isn't, it's people who are very careful to couch their frothing lunacy in respectable terms, with the objective of pushing people further right over time. The existence of a wide selection of options for you to find something that confirms your biases in a way you are comfortable with is the core of an effective propaganda effort.
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May 22, 2021 18:33
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namesake posted:If you want to take Brexit as a comparison seeing how we know how it ends then the best thing to have done would have had a strong Lexit campaign. The only options would have been a massive grassroots thing to have Momentum and the membership push for Corbyn and Abbott to make a thing of it. Ravel posted:I was very Lexit during the referendum, but had to vote for Remain because it was clear the result would be taken as a referendum on immigration.  I think the tipping point was Farage's Nazi propaganda poster. The best thing to come from an organized Lexit would have been an alternative message for people to grab hold of, which may have even improved society somewhat.
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May 22, 2021 18:34
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Aramoro posted:So you think out right fascist media is better because at least its not a gateway drug to fascist media? I think that the BBC is simply a component of a wider right wing media project and that if they changed the BBC it would be necessary to create something else in its same vein to replace it. There are privately owned outlets that do the same thing, I do not think that having the BBC or not really makes a lot of difference but I do think that the BBC as it exists is already doing the best job it possibly can do to indoctrinate people into right wing ideas by occupying a necessary place in the radicalization process and trading in on a large amount of un-owed credibility that people across the political spectrum afford it and a completely unjustified reputation for being "balanced" Thus, I will tell anybody who will listen that it is a pile of poo poo, because the worst thing they could do is trust the damned thing. There is no scenario where the BBC is not serving the same end as the rest of the press, the only question is how much people trust it and where in the process it is located. There is already a saturation of far right content, what is harder to create is the "respectable" end of the wedge. Which is why I highly doubt the tories would ever actually dismantle the BBC and also why I doubt its content is likely to shift very far either, absenting a general drift of non-right-wing audiences away from broadcast TV news altogether and also absenting the inevitable drift in politics of cynics being replaced by true believers who grew up immersed in the environments created by their forebears who are not as good at judging the objective reality of the world and thus more prone to making strategic errors. If you gave me the job of pushing the UK as far right as I could I would not change anything about the BBC, its reputation as a supposedly fair and balanced (or leftist hellhole, depending on your predisposition) news source while being completely staffed and controlled by tories is the absolute ideal position for it to be in from that perspective. It is the platonic ideal of controlled opposition. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:45 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 22, 2021 18:36
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Ravel posted:I was very Lexit during the referendum, but had to vote for Remain because it was clear the result would be taken as a referendum on immigration.
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May 22, 2021 18:43
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OwlFancier posted:If you gave me the job of pushing the UK as far right as I could I would not change anything about the BBC The BBC is a regressive institution but I think the UK gets substantially worse if we allow whatever Murdoch network springs up as its replacement to dictate the political narratives. I don't know whether 'bbc reform' has any teeth, but it seems more likely to succeed than to try and create a leftist network when there are no credible contemporary contenders with sufficient reach.
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May 22, 2021 18:53
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The BBC on a practical level cannot be fixed, it is completely captured by the Tory / Liberal mindset. It will never be a left-wing media outlet, and I'm doubtful it ever was. We need to build our own popular version of it, or completely remake it once a socialist Labour is back in power.
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May 22, 2021 18:53
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Guavanaut posted:What channels were open for that though? Well there weren't really any, I'm just drawing the comparison that without such a campaign during Brexit the left found itself split, some defending bad institutions because they already were in place and weren't 100% evil or offering valid criticisms of the institutions but unable to lead the national conversation because they were stuck arguing with the first group rather than developing their own positive alternative. In the end neither side got what they wanted. Hence my saying we should avoid doing the same thing now by not wasting efforts by defending the BBC and instead making valid alternatives that everyone agrees are worth defending if not outright supporting and boosting.
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May 22, 2021 18:55
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Since the 30s are approaching, I'm just curious from those ahead of me, when are we given the option to pick an alternative to the AZ vaccine? Has the booking page been updated to let you choose or are you expected to find out they've run out on the day you get there?
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May 22, 2021 18:58
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Szmitten posted:Since the 30s are approaching, I'm just curious from those ahead of me, when are we given the option to pick an alternative to the AZ vaccine? Has the booking page been updated to let you choose or are you expected to find out they've run out on the day you get there? Afaict most areas are just giving under 40s whatever they have that isn't AZ. If you get a booking you should be guaranteed a jab since they won't book more of the alternative ones than they actually have.
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May 22, 2021 19:12
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stev posted:Afaict most areas are just giving under 40s whatever they have that isn't AZ. If you get a booking you should be guaranteed a jab since they won't book more of the alternative ones than they actually have. I'm just sorta overstressing because my parents got their bookings earlier in the program and one got a text from the local surgery which took them to the Pfizer facility and the other booked via the NHS which got them the AZ facility. Now I'm just worried I book via NHS online and get the AZ facility without a choice. I kinda just don't trust the process and I'm hearing absolutely nothing about it despite the millions who've gone through it. 
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May 22, 2021 19:18
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Not So Fast posted:The BBC on a practical level cannot be fixed, it is completely captured by the Tory / Liberal mindset. It will never be a left-wing media outlet, and I'm doubtful it ever was. We need to build our own popular version of it, or completely remake it once a socialist Labour is back in power. It's top brass are appointed by the government and so it is "completely captured" by virtue of there having been 50 years of Tory/Liberal (lol) governments. A completely remade BBC would be literally identical save for different appointments. There is going to be media, the question is simply is media with a state owned organisation funded by licence fee preferable to a media without one. Currently, I'd say equivocal but yes. And, importantly, enough of a yes that cheering for its demise isn't doing anyone any favours.
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May 22, 2021 19:27
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Aramoro posted:It seems extremely hopeful at best to think people would see though outright hatred. Not many of Tuckers audience are seeing through poo poo. Sorry I don't enjoy the slightly less spiked boot on my throat. I think it's important to realise hwo the audience was able to become such that they'd swallow down tucker carlsons poo poo.
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May 22, 2021 19:32
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Gonzo McFee posted:He's an awful piece of poo poo but I can't disagree with the assessment he makes on the Hacks. Appearance matters, huh? Doesn't look good for Keith given his ongoing transformation into flabby wet eggs.
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May 22, 2021 19:39
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The BBC sucks and is completely in the hands of privately educated tories who want any excuse to pull it rightwards. You can make all the cases you want for it but realistically it's only positive future use is slowing down the gallop to the right through having to pretend at impartiality occasionally.
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May 22, 2021 19:40
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Again going by current actually existing prime ministeriality, looking like a hungover sack of eggs is apparently a plus so perhaps that is intentional. But I again think this is the prime minister that exists in the dream realm of journalists rather than reality.
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May 22, 2021 19:44
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Stormgale posted:Sorry I don't enjoy the slightly less spiked boot on my throat. Bill o Reilly and Glen Beck were hardly Carlson gateway drugs. Fox News hasn't sunk to new lows with Tucker Carlson by any stretch it was always transparent white supremacy punctuated with Brass-Eye graphics and sports. e: it's not more popular now either. AFAIK it has a greater viewership share than it used to but overall ratings are down, as is true across all network TV due to the internet. I'm not 100% on that though. jiggerypokery fucked around with this message at 19:58 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 22, 2021 19:55
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Szmitten posted:Since the 30s are approaching, I'm just curious from those ahead of me, when are we given the option to pick an alternative to the AZ vaccine? Has the booking page been updated to let you choose or are you expected to find out they've run out on the day you get there? You don't get to choose. Places will have enough AZ to cover the second doses but the stocks of Pfizer and Moderna are high enough to cover the under 40s who are booked in for their first jab. You're only going to get AZ if you go into one of the walk-in vaccine clinics without an appointment, or if someone has accidentaly unplugged the Pfizer fridge on the day of your appointment. Seriously though, please take whatever you're offered unless you've been told you, specifically, can't have one of them. There are multiple brands available for every vaccine, but the NHS doesn't hand you a menu and ask which of these tetanus vaccinations would you like this evening. Lady Demelza fucked around with this message at 20:09 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 22, 2021 19:57
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Szmitten posted:I'm just sorta overstressing because my parents got their bookings earlier in the program and one got a text from the local surgery which took them to the Pfizer facility and the other booked via the NHS which got them the AZ facility. Now I'm just worried I book via NHS online and get the AZ facility without a choice. I kinda just don't trust the process and I'm hearing absolutely nothing about it despite the millions who've gone through it. Try not to stress. I felt the same earlier in the week before my vaccine yesterday. I was only offered sites via the NHS site which I knew had previously been AZ facilities. There was no guidance on any of the websites, or any clear reference that it had changed (just the statements in the news that they'd try to offer an alternative) - whilst I'd heard from other people my age in other counties that they were told that they were getting Pfizer upon booking. When I arrived and gave my booking reference, they brought up my details and straight away said, "You're having Pfizer because you're in the under 40 group." Once I was inside and saw how it was set up, it was clear that the centre had changed from doing solely AZ to offering both vaccines; giving first-dose Pfizer to our age group, and second dose AZ to an older age group. Hope that helps.
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May 22, 2021 19:59
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jiggerypokery posted:Fox News hasn't sunk to new lows with Tucker Carlson by any stretch https://twitter.com/jkass99/status/1395919949143498754
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May 22, 2021 20:03
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That's a surprising range of emotion for carlson every other picture I've seen of him he's doing the "urr I just shat my pants and I'm trying not to cry about it" face.
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May 22, 2021 20:07
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OwlFancier posted:Again going by current actually existing prime ministeriality, looking like a hungover sack of eggs is apparently a plus so perhaps that is intentional. I don't remember where I saw it, but back during the leadership elections someone said that Keith looks like the prime minister in a Spice Girls movie and it's stuck with me.
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May 22, 2021 20:10
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jiggerypokery posted:Bill o Reilly and Glen Beck were hardly Carlson gateway drugs. Fox News hasn't sunk to new lows with Tucker Carlson by any stretch it was always transparent white supremacy punctuated with Brass-Eye graphics and sports. I think your misreading the argument, fox news is the endpoint but something like the NY times opinion section is the gateway. Your arguing replacing the BBC with something more extreme would be bad buy it's missing the middle steps.
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May 22, 2021 20:12
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Stormgale posted:I think your misreading the argument, fox news is the endpoint but something like the NY times opinion section is the gateway. Your arguing replacing the BBC with something more extreme would be bad buy it's missing the middle steps. I don't think you need to go through A to get to B, or that A necessarily leads to B. e: nevermind, bad analogy jiggerypokery fucked around with this message at 20:21 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 22, 2021 20:15
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See that Byron yank lad that wanted to kill cops that you all insisted worked for mfi has been arrested. Covering themselves nicely. Nothing on the evil and bad BBC about it. But it is Eurovision.
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May 22, 2021 20:29
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Not So Fast posted:.. once a socialist Labour is back in power. Lol
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May 22, 2021 20:32
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Testro posted:Try not to stress. I felt the same earlier in the week before my vaccine yesterday. I was only offered sites via the NHS site which I knew had previously been AZ facilities. There was no guidance on any of the websites, or any clear reference that it had changed (just the statements in the news that they'd try to offer an alternative) - whilst I'd heard from other people my age in other counties that they were told that they were getting Pfizer upon booking. Thanks. I've been expecting incompetence so hearing this is a comfort.
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May 22, 2021 20:41
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