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DourCricket posted:Right but.. The game makes very clear that the work itself takes a stand on these issues, per their "golden endings". The genophage is wrong and the quarians were wrong. You correct those mistakes with Paragon choices, the very clear good guy archetype. There is nuance in the writing only that other characters in the story have varying opinions and you are allowed to roleplay those opinions as well, if you choose. The narrative itself is not at all ambiguous on what it feels is the right and moral choice. it's worth thinking about how these issues are framed, though. the genophage is an ethical dilemma because it assumes Malthusian economics is true: krogan overpopulation leads to resource depletion. the Paragon path rejects that on the basis that the genophage is both cruel and unnecessary, as the ancient krogan city and Wrex' leadership prove the krogan people can moderate their own society but... Malthusianism isn't true; people don't starve because of overpopulation, people starve because elites hoard and overconsume the common resources they control, and Malthusian economics was developed partly as a way to justify that behaviour. translated to Mass Effect, that means the krogan crisis was caused by salarian and asari elites seeking to protect valuable claimed worlds at the expense of the krogan - and yet as the player we're not allowed to reject the genophage on those grounds this also applies more broadly to the general concept of Paragon vs Renegade - the Dirty Harry and Bush-era notion that you can do things the "right" way, or you can get results. but it turns out torture and other enhanced interrogation techniques don't actually work. Shepard's bad-cop routine actually doing anything more than making things worse is a writing contrivance. (which is fine, in itself, sometimes you want to explore that kind of space, but I don't think the writers were aware of that themselves)
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May 23, 2021 12:08
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 20:12 |
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Huh I never thought about it but the Krogan stuff is basically just replacement theory played straight
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May 23, 2021 12:43
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Lt. Danger posted:it's worth thinking about how these issues are framed, though. the genophage is an ethical dilemma because it assumes Malthusian economics is true: krogan overpopulation leads to resource depletion. the Paragon path rejects that on the basis that the genophage is both cruel and unnecessary, as the ancient krogan city and Wrex' leadership prove the krogan people can moderate their own society Yeah having options in ME to reject not only the methods but the premise of certain things would really take it over the top. This is of course the core problem with the ending to 3 as well, there's no option to be like gently caress you kid I fixed BSG by way of israel/palestine, synthetic/organic peace is totally possible, suck my mattock. That said it's still powerful to reject the genophage as unacceptable no matter the reasoning so it's not like it's awful the way it is (aside from the ending, obviously)
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May 23, 2021 12:56
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Doing the early Legion thing for the first time since I got spoiled back then. OK, look Adam Baldwin : I don't care that you're a loving fascist IRL - plenty more where you came from. I *do* care that you somehow managed to gently caress up the comedic tone and timiing of "there's a geth right. behind. you.". How do you even do that ?! It's the easiest joke in the book !
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May 23, 2021 13:15
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Just thinking about the fact that Humans rival Asari civilization when they have a 2300 year headstart in Space and have a Prothean VI that will give them whatever they want. Doesn't really make sense. The population counts don't make much sense either and there really shouldn't be Humans everywhere when they've only been unconfined from the Solar System for 3 decades.
Thom12255 fucked around with this message at 13:19 on May 23, 2021 |
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May 23, 2021 13:17
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Lt. Danger posted:it's worth thinking about how these issues are framed, though. the genophage is an ethical dilemma because it assumes Malthusian economics is true: krogan overpopulation leads to resource depletion. the Paragon path rejects that on the basis that the genophage is both cruel and unnecessary, as the ancient krogan city and Wrex' leadership prove the krogan people can moderate their own society I feel like the genophage goes beyond simple Malthusianism. It's more racist than that - the whole idea, as expressed by most people (and especially Mordin) is that Krogans are innately violent brutes, genetically bound to be assholes. But of course (and even if Wrex didn't demonstrate that explicitly) that's just as explicitly nurture, not nature - and the Genophage definitely makes that culture worse. (BTW, just seizing the opportunity to say : I lurked back then but I really enjoyed your LP. Yes, even the just my opinion bit.)
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May 23, 2021 13:20
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Kobal2 posted:I feel like the genophage goes beyond simple Malthusianism. It's more racist than that - the whole idea, as expressed by most people (and especially Mordin) is that Krogans are innately violent brutes, genetically bound to be assholes. But of course (and even if Wrex didn't demonstrate that explicitly) that's just as explicitly nurture, not nature - and the Genophage definitely makes that culture worse. I think Galactic Civilization ignores the fact that they specifically nurtured the Krogan race to be killing machines for their war with the Rachni and then got surprised when that culture they spent decades encouraging got turned around on them.
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May 23, 2021 13:22
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Thom12255 posted:Just thinking about the fact that Humans rival Asari civilization when they have a 2300 year headstart in Space and have a Prothean VI that will give them whatever they want. Doesn't really make sense. The population counts don't make much sense either and there really shouldn't be Humans everywhere when they've only been unconfined from the Solar System for 3 decades. There are a ton of humans in the game that have experienced everything between first contact and the end of the galaxy. I don’t know how more people aren’t like, gently caress these aliens they make everything worse.
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May 23, 2021 13:26
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Thom12255 posted:I think Galactic Civilization ignores the fact that they specifically nurtured the Krogan race to be killing machines for their war with the Rachni and then got surprised when that culture they spent decades encouraging got turned around on them. A Taliban plot point, yes. Not sure if intentional, written by Canadians, trying to appeal to US audiences regardless, perhaps conflict between writers and publishers, publishers didn't see *breathe in* speaks volume in retrospect.
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May 23, 2021 13:27
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CharlestheHammer posted:Huh I never thought about it but the Krogan stuff is basically just replacement theory played straight Not really ? The gist or RT is that Them People have forgoed war against Us because we kick so much rear end and have fallen back to a plan of breeding Us out covertly (as, possibly, directed and/or funded by Them). A resurgent militaristic Krogan hegemony would be much simpler. They'd be Europe, we'd be Africa. Or, possibly, Australia.
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May 23, 2021 13:31
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Kobal2 posted:Not really ? The gist or RT is that Them People have forgoed war against Us because we kick so much rear end and have fallen back to a plan of breeding Us out covertly (as, possibly, directed and/or funded by Them). A resurgent militaristic Krogan hegemony would be much simpler. They'd be Europe, we'd be Africa. Or, possibly, Australia. I mean that is great replacement theory. Outside war part it’s just they plan on breeding us out. Though whether they think it’s intentional depends on the strain
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May 23, 2021 13:38
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean that is great replacement theory. Outside war part it’s just they plan on breeding us out. Though whether they think it’s intentional depends on the strain But Krogan don't plan on breeding anybody out. They plan to headbutt the galaxy into submission (mostly).
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May 23, 2021 13:40
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Flirting with Yoeman Chambers feels deeply, deeply wrong post-Metoo BUT I really need someone to feed my fish goddammit
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May 23, 2021 14:04
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I like Tali's new starting outfit in ME1, she's adding her own flavor to her suit but isn't as elaborate as she'll get in subsequent games. Picked up Kaidan's and Ashley's achievements before leaving the Citadel, in Kaidan's case before I even picked up Garrus and Wrex. Is it my imagination or do you level more slowly now in ME1 but get more skill points per level?
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May 23, 2021 14:08
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Evil Canadian posted:Just keep in mind insanity means you can't be brainless all the time, krogans will 1 shot you with their melee and you can't take more than 1 rocket. That's the best part of Insanity so far. Makes seeing a Krogan always an "aw gently caress" moment.
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May 23, 2021 14:11
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Cythereal posted:I like Tali's new starting outfit in ME1, she's adding her own flavor to her suit but isn't as elaborate as she'll get in subsequent games. Yeah you get double the skill points per level, but the level cap has been halved from 60 to 30.
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May 23, 2021 14:26
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Cythereal posted:I like Tali's new starting outfit in ME1, she's adding her own flavor to her suit but isn't as elaborate as she'll get in subsequent games. No you're right, the new level scaling goes from 1-30 like 2 and 3 so you get twice as many points per level now. e: f,b
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May 23, 2021 14:27
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This game is a big mess. The AI is totally broken most of the time to the extent that combat is a a tedious cleanup instead of a tense battle.
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May 23, 2021 15:08
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So, I have access to the Spectre VII weapons on the Normandy. Without the achievement to unlock them. Not that I'll be able to afford them for a long time, though.
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May 23, 2021 15:20
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Cythereal posted:So, I have access to the Spectre VII weapons on the Normandy. Without the achievement to unlock them. Not that I'll be able to afford them for a long time, though. Moot, since they will disappear long before you can.
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May 23, 2021 15:23
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I beat Mass Effect 1 for the first time. No rose tinted glasses and I can say with thirty years of gaming experience and hundreds of games beaten over the years, that it was a bad game by almost any metric you can measure. I am genuinely surprised it ever got a sequel.
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May 23, 2021 15:26
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It was a pretty good game. Not faultless but it was a good game in a genre no one does anything with. A sequel was basically inevitable
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May 23, 2021 15:47
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Just had my first soft crash, on the planet with Wrex's armor. Game locked up in the middle of combat.
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May 23, 2021 15:48
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Cythereal posted:So, I have access to the Spectre VII weapons on the Normandy. Without the achievement to unlock them. Not that I'll be able to afford them for a long time, though. Those appear as soon as you become a Spectre, and the X become available once you've finished all 4 main story planets. No longer tied to achievements. There's also a bug you might run into where the Spectre weapons disappear from the shop. Didn't happen to me, but it seems pretty common.
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May 23, 2021 15:58
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Knuc U Kinte posted:I beat Mass Effect 1 for the first time. No rose tinted glasses and I can say with thirty years of gaming experience and hundreds of games beaten over the years, that it was a bad game by almost any metric you can measure. I am genuinely surprised it ever got a sequel. Lol
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May 23, 2021 15:59
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So, thresher maws are a hell of a lot more dangerous now. Ouchies.
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May 23, 2021 16:08
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Got the bug in ME1 where the Spectre gear vanishes from the merchant.  Only level 15 and about to do Noveria and Feros after mucking around in side quests and on the moon. Guess I'll just save up and buy the top end armor right when it drops eventually. OhFunny posted:i too am one of those people who nuked Kaidan because I heard Carth's voice and flashbacked to his whining through all of KOTOR. The funny part of this is A- Kaidan is actually an interesting character and has a cool backstory, plus is just a good dude when you actually talk to him. B- Going back to play KotOR 1 as an adult instead of a teenager, now having a wife and kids uh... Carth is actually also a likable guy, with a good backstory. Tl;dr: teenage 2000s gamers hated normal and nice people with actual backstories to them. LAAAAFF HAM STORY ABOUT MURDERING KIDS! THIS OTHER GUY IS GREAT!  I used to be a Garrus/Wrex train sorta guy all the way, but holy poo poo Garrus is just a piece of poo poo cop now every time he opens his mouth, he's actively gone from one of my favorite characters to often getting shelved. I've been using Kaidan and Tali (who used to always annoy me, but now has grown on me with her fish out of water stuff) a lot and it's actually pretty great. Kaidan basically is my self insert opinion on things whenever he chimes in during a quest. Try things differently, kids. As you grow the gently caress up, apparently your tastes and opinions change. Who knew! 
Fuzz fucked around with this message at 16:11 on May 23, 2021 |
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May 23, 2021 16:09
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Cythereal posted:So, thresher maws are a hell of a lot more dangerous now. Yep! They got easier for me once I turned off camera-influenced Mako handling. After that, it's just a matter of timing a thruster-jump right and making sure you don't drive right on top of it.
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May 23, 2021 16:11
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Fuzz posted:I used to be a Garrus/Wrex train sorta guy all the way, but holy poo poo Garrus is just a piece of poo poo cop now every time he opens his mouth, he's actively gone from one of my favorite characters to often getting shelved. I've been using Kaidan and Tali (who used to always annoy me, but now has grown on me with her fish out of water stuff) a lot and it's actually pretty great. Kaidan basically is my self insert opinion on things whenever he chimes in during a quest. Lol yeah, Wrex is still the best but Garrus sucks poo poo in ME1 and I'm embarrassed how little I clued in on that back in the day. facialimpediment posted:Yep! They got easier for me once I turned off camera-influenced Mako handling. After that, it's just a matter of timing a thruster-jump right and making sure you don't drive right on top of it. Cannot recommend this strongly enough.
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May 23, 2021 16:14
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Brandon Keener's voice is doing a lot of the heavy lifting for Garrus as a character tbh. But yeah, his shtick hasn't aged well, especially since your influence over him in 1 gets undone by 2 regardless.
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May 23, 2021 16:20
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Knuc U Kinte posted:I beat Mass Effect 1 for the first time. No rose tinted glasses and I can say with thirty years of gaming experience and hundreds of games beaten over the years, that it was a bad game by almost any metric you can measure. I am genuinely surprised it ever got a sequel. Hundreds? Your gamer score must be freaking epic my man
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May 23, 2021 16:20
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Wolfsheim posted:Hundreds? Your gamer score must be freaking epic my man drat dude show a little respect for the gamer veteran of 30+ years
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May 23, 2021 16:22
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Walrus Pete posted:Cannot recommend this strongly enough. Thirded. I wondered what the hell was so wrong with the Mako's handling until I turned that off.
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May 23, 2021 16:28
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Fuzz posted:
His backstory is just ‘Jack, draft 1.’
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May 23, 2021 16:30
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They did *not* nerf the bumper cars strategy vs colossi. 
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May 23, 2021 16:45
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Aphrodite posted:His backstory is just ‘Jack, draft 1.’ Yeah, except way more likable and personable than Jack, who is just a crazy rear end in a top hat with ridiculous amounts of baggage and forced edginess, bordering on insulting. Also anyone playing should add this mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffectlegendaryedition/mods/49 There is no reason NOT to have infinite sprint on foot and boost in the Mako. Just cuts a huge amount of tedium out without actually affecting the gameplay much.
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May 23, 2021 16:55
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I like ignoring everyone's advice and waiting until there is nothing else left to do before recruiting Mordin. Not only is it a better challenge (no research), but also he gets on the ship and manages to solve his sole purpose there in like 10 minutes.Fuzz posted:Yeah, except way more likable and personable than Jack, who is just a crazy rear end in a top hat with ridiculous amounts of baggage and forced edginess, bordering on insulting. In 2. She's much better in 3.
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May 23, 2021 17:19
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mastajake posted:In 2. She's much better in 3. That's good to hear. I had skipped 3 and just never got around to it after all the colored ending screen drama, so this will be my first time playing it.
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May 23, 2021 17:20
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Yeah Jack in 3 is a great character.
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May 23, 2021 17:28
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Man speaking of Jack I was hoping for a lot more fireworks bringing Miranda on her loyalty mission and vice versa, but the only time Jack gets a word in in Miranda's is to chime in about Miranda's outfit (  ). Taking Miranda on Jack's is even more disappointing, but I felt like it was thematically appropriate. Biggest letdown by far is the part where you find a data log that basically confirms that Jack's project was a rogue op within a rogue org, I guess so the player doesn't have to feel as icky about working with them, but it's completely idiotic when you are working with the context of Cerberus in ME1 and ME3. I kind of want to see what ME2 without the contrived working for Cerberus poo poo looks like, where Shep has tacit alliance approval and council standing, but still has a long way to go to prove the Reapers are coming.
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May 23, 2021 17:40
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