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Guavanaut posted:Add to that, cities look like a reasonable late 20th century society, whereas the countryside looks like a demographic collapse. Holy loving poo poo. I hope we are all prepared for the countryside to remain 100% Tory while voter counts trend towards 18th century rotten boroughs numbers.
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May 25, 2021 13:00
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BalloonFish posted:I think the fellow in question said "can I have a lend of..." at least a few times. He was born in West Yorkshire, grew up in Cheshire and Greater Manchester and then studied and lived in Lancaster before moving to the East Midlands where I worked with him, so I don't know if it's a quirk of one of those places in particular. The proper way to say this is 'Can I nick a pencil?'. Thanks.
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May 25, 2021 13:06
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https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1397152817454931972?s=19 Too easy
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May 25, 2021 13:08
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BalloonFish posted:
Interestingly, this variation in the understanding of 'until' comes up in Egyptians using English. In UK, MOST of the time, "until" means right up to 1 nanosecond or 1 attosecond before this absolute instance of time, this was the case. But right now, as of the exact now, it has changed. (For the older goons, remember Tomorrow's World with Raymond Baxter?  they would always start with breathy excitement: "We haven't been able to do X, until NOW!" (revealing gadget which does X).The word used in Arabic for 'until' and translated as 'until' by English-speaking Egyptians INCLUDES the present moment - so it STILL isn't doable. So: Brit boss to Egyptian Employee: "Have you done that report yet?" Egyptian Employee speaking Egyptian English: "Until now, I didn't do it" (meaning right now including the present instant he hasn't done it.) {Brit boss hears: I hadn't done it but I have now finished it.} Brit boss to Employee: "So let me have it then" Confused Employee: but I haven't finished it. Brit boss thinks "untrustworthy, shifty" etc etc all those perjorative words when as far as the employee is concerned he has told him the exact truth. Cue: lots of cussing in the bars of various Brit Clubs by British bosses working in Cairo firms about how unreliable etc Egyptians are. My other favourite is 'nervous'. Brits mean 'scared' or 'apprehensive' when they say it. English-speaking Egyptians mean 'angry' (because when you get angry you get all sort of shaky and nervy). So: someone says to you "you make me nervous" - you think "But I'm not a scary person" - Egyptian is telling you you are making him angry, not scared!
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May 25, 2021 13:08
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That "until" distinction is interesting, I hear it with my Indian colleagues as well, although it's pretty obvious from context what is meant usually
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May 25, 2021 13:09
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"the young'uns are wrong" and "the old days were better" is nothing new. I remember reading Plato's accounts of a rant in which Socrates fondly remembers the Spartan occupation of Athens, because war put the youth straight. The world doesn't have to get more complex for the past to be more comfortable, either. The past has happened: all of its gambles have been played and finished. Its winners and losers have been declared. There is no uncertainty in events that have already unfolded. Thus the present is always less certain.
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May 25, 2021 13:11
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Hey, guess who sincerely has no personal politics: https://twitter.com/lukemcgee/status/1397149374812200960
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May 25, 2021 13:13
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Gonzo McFee posted:I think ive found the perfect distillation of the British mindset. Bit antisemitic to wish for a time when Israel didn't exist imo.
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May 25, 2021 13:16
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Azza Bamboo posted:The past has happened: all of its gambles have been played and finished. Its winners and losers have been declared. There is no uncertainty in events that have already unfolded. Thus the present is always less certain. :Screams in historian:
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May 25, 2021 13:16
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Just got a text from Microsoft I thought was scamming telling me an outlook email account of mine had been closed. Then I remembered, I scheduled it for deletion some time ago and told my email client not to collect info from there. It's the one I used for the Labour party. (Then I got a follow up email in the 'recovery email' telling me it was gone.)
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May 25, 2021 13:23
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Cool I've been told to have a face-to-face meeting at the Job Centre despite being part of the new lockdown regions.
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May 25, 2021 13:23
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Tesseraction posted:Cool I've been told to have a face-to-face meeting at the Job Centre despite being part of the new lockdown regions. One of the most underrated benefits of UBI will be the death of the Job Centre. I've had two stints on JSA and honestly my experiences with them haven't been that bad, most of the people I dealt with were polite enough given the circumstances. But they're still one of the most depressing places on earth. For some people it's basically just a prole humiliation centre.
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May 25, 2021 13:34
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Failed Imagineer posted:https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1397152817454931972?s=19 Not for basically every single reply to the tweet though
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May 25, 2021 13:35
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ThomasPaine posted::Screams in historian: Same! Bloody hell there are multiple whole academic fields about how the past was uncertain. Please enlighten us about why the Bronze Age collapsed and who exactly the Sea Peoples were and give an exact grammar for Minoan ta
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May 25, 2021 13:39
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Brit boss to Egyptian Employee: "Have you done that report yet?" Reminded me of the South African slang 'I'll do it now now' (at some point later, probably)
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May 25, 2021 13:41
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Butternubs posted:For some people it's basically just a prole humiliation centre. Entirely this.
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May 25, 2021 13:42
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a pipe smoking dog posted:I always notice when I go back to my parents that they can recycle far more things than I can and that the advice they get on what is and isn't recyclable and how to best prepare stuff is much much clearer than what I get in England. When my mum went to Jersey to help my aunt recover from an illness she was shocked at how little recycling they did. She said she felt guilty when she had to throw so much stuff out.
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May 25, 2021 13:43
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Guavanaut posted:Add to that, cities look like a reasonable late 20th century society, whereas the countryside looks like a demographic collapse. no flared base.
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May 25, 2021 13:44
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I think you've misunderstood my meaning. The existence of specific uncertain points of historical recollection doesn't mitigate the point that we're no longer staking anything on this. Those events are interesting quandaries that have long discussions surrounding them, though.
Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 13:52 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 13:44
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feedmegin posted:Same! Bloody hell there are multiple whole academic fields about how the past was uncertain. Please enlighten us about why the Bronze Age collapsed and who exactly the Sea Peoples were and give an exact grammar for Minoan ta I thought of that when I read it, but then I also thought your average gammon probably hasn't ever thought of that, and never will.
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May 25, 2021 13:44
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The context of the discussion was Europe in the 1940s. so long as you stay out of Russia it's hardly lacking in *available documentation. You can find a mystery, I'm sure, but not one that fundamentally challenges the general story. *Edit because the nit was rightly picked Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 14:05 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 13:47
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Interestingly, this variation in the understanding of 'until' comes up in Egyptians using English. I feel like the way "until" is used in English today must be weird because apart from that meaning I quite often hear non-native speakers using it like "I'll have it until Wednesday", meaning "I'll have it by Wednesday". Which honestly makes as much sense as the normal use if you think about the word.
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May 25, 2021 13:48
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Lol afaik the Soviet Union was a famously bureaucratic state and kept meticulous records, just no one could look at them, piles were lost or destroyed in the 90s, and Russia is pretty selective about what it allows access to of the stuff they have kept hold of.
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May 25, 2021 13:53
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JollyBoyJohn posted:The localised English usage that irritates me most is when Welsh people say "now in a minute" One I've been hearing more of lately and quite like is people from the Rhondda describing someone as "a beauty." Not meaning they are very attractive but they are stupid or annoying. For example if you were on the motorway and someone in the middle lane was doing 50 you might say "this guys a beauty, ie."
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May 25, 2021 13:55
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ThomasPaine posted:Lol afaik the Soviet Union was a famously bureaucratic state and kept meticulous records, just no one could look at them, piles were lost or destroyed in the 90s, and Russia is pretty selective about what it allows access to of the stuff they have kept hold of. That is what I'm referring to. If you read anything about the cold war, the authors often say "we can't know any more about this until Russia declassifies its records." I'd love to see more on Kruschev's side of the missile crisis. Anyway I assume by your fleeting into nitpicking that you in fact have no issue with the general point: that recent history provides a psychological comfort in the account's relative predictability compared with estimates of the future. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 14:11 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 14:00
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Unkempt posted:My Massachusetts wife used to buy beer at the 'package store' which was shortened to 'the packy'.
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May 25, 2021 14:01
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Guavanaut posted:Add to that, cities look like a reasonable late 20th century society, whereas the countryside looks like a demographic collapse. Not exactly, considering moving to the country on retirement when you no longer need to live near your work is a thing.
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May 25, 2021 14:01
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demographic buttplug
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May 25, 2021 14:03
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Bobby Deluxe posted:There was a character in GTA 4 called that, apparently it's a fairly common abbreviation of Patrick over there. Still very jarring every time I heard it. Also less-common abbreviation in Ireland, such as our 90s international goalkeeper Packie Bonner
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May 25, 2021 14:05
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Even if the only thing they changed about unemployment was taking away any and all job seeking requirements, that would be like half the stress gone immediately.
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May 25, 2021 14:05
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Chubby Henparty posted:Reminded me of the South African slang 'I'll do it now now' (at some point later, probably) Azza Bamboo posted:The context of the discussion was Europe in the 1940s. so long as you stay out of Russia it's hardly lacking in documentation. You can find a mystery, I'm sure, but not one that fundamentally challenges the general story. They want to move back to a 1940s London where there was no crime and people talked to each other and had a sing-song in the Underground and everyone respected the flag. i.e. Something that never even existed to go back to. It's a bollocks narrative they want to return to, not a period of history. And in most cases that's just a flimsiest of veneers over the real question, because they know that they can't ask "would you like to deport all the Coloureds and leftists and homosexualists and them what don't speak English?" but they know that these days... https://twitter.com/deecemachine/status/1397066237650276352 jiggerypokery posted:Not exactly, considering moving to the country on retirement when you no longer need to live near your work is a thing.
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May 25, 2021 14:11
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Azza Bamboo posted:That is what I'm referring to. If you read anything about the cold war, the authors often say "we can't know any more about this until Russia declassifies its records." Ah no I get your point, I'm not trying to be confrontational sorry
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May 25, 2021 14:18
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That's another fair assessment. The three ideas put forward so far are People find solace in apparent simplicity of the past as the world grows more complex. People find solace in apparent certainty of the past when the future is unplayed. People find solace in a myth of the values of the past when they believe the present does not extol them. And I don't think anyone has argued that these come at the expense of each other. Although an educated guess would be that there is some weightedness on the latter. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 14:21 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 14:18
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Unkempt posted:My Massachusetts wife used to buy beer at the 'package store' which was shortened to 'the packy'. It gets reposted often but can't believe this got passed the censors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd4ygI0GHV8
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May 25, 2021 14:23
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Failed Imagineer posted:Also less-common abbreviation in Ireland, such as our 90s international goalkeeper Packie Bonner
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May 25, 2021 14:31
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jiggerypokery posted:Not exactly, considering moving to the country on retirement when you no longer need to live near your work is a thing. Like any millennial is going to be able to retire.
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May 25, 2021 14:39
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Even if the only thing they changed about unemployment was taking away any and all job seeking requirements, that would be like half the stress gone immediately.  100% but it would also be helpful if there were more resources emphasising how easy it is to just lie about almost everything so it takes a few minutes out of your day rather than a few hours.* I've always felt that the entire system is built to be very easy to game if you're a cynical, well presented, articulate middle-class type familiar with bureaucracy and able to performatively go through the etiquette etc, but almost unbearably oppressive if you try to play it earnestly and honestly and aren't used to paperwork, particularly if you struggle to adapt your mannerisms and appearance and especially if you openly get frustrated and aggressive (and that's without even getting into race etc). So with a few exceptions, the people who genuinely need the money the most find it hardest to avoid sanctions and are often told it's their fault for being so unreasonable when they're struggling to feed their kids, while those with an education and a few grand savings in the bank can get by relatively unmolested. It's transparently cruel and tbh just naked class warfare. *I remember being told that officially I should be jobseeking 8 hours a day, as if that wasn't ridiculous.
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May 25, 2021 14:45
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Venomous posted:Eh, you can project theatrically without sounding like Laurence Olivier, is the thing, even in your typical proscenium arch theatre. Like, yeah, projecting in a theatre is easier if you speak in an inflection associated with, well, actors in a theatre, but it doesn't prevent you from speaking in a regional dialect or accent as such. Yeah basically what I was getting at was that the OP video sounds more natural and conversational because that's how he was performing it. The accent might be more authentic but it seems pretty unlikely that it would have actually performed like that originally.
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May 25, 2021 14:46
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Spending 30 hours a week looking for jobs is what you are officially made to agree to
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May 25, 2021 14:47
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Azza Bamboo posted:That's another fair assessment. https://twitter.com/hammerlady_1966/status/1396930224110112768 Britain, 1940, fabled home of free speech and no censorship. I do think it's interesting how potentially legitimate concerns (i.e. the social atomization and individualization of late capitalist society) get warped into an identitarian issue, fed through nostalgia, and then some ahistorical Liberal Enlightenment-type ideals are tacked on for some reason. Makes one wonder what exactly she wishes to be free to say.
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May 25, 2021 14:54
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