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Broken Box posted:Right, which makes me wonder what the hell they *thought* they were up against, because I doubt anyone would willingly go out against Red Samurai if they had a clue. Even if the individual members of the SWAT didn't know, someone must have realized they were wasting an asset. As has been brought up, they probably thought they were going ghoul hunting. Would these Red Samurai bozos tolerate one of their own becoming a ghoul?
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May 24, 2021 18:08
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Cythereal posted:As has been brought up, they probably thought they were going ghoul hunting. I'm gonna guess "yes, if they commit seppuku at once". Aside how's this setting's japan? I think it's a combination of WWII-imperial japan mixed with (nineties? eightes?) "japan takes over the world" scare (told that was common in cyberpunk/speculation?), but my knowledge's limited. so...Shadowrun lore goons, help?
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May 24, 2021 18:36
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So the current theory is a shadowrunner that is essentially zombie Gray Fox, from a unit of corpo badasses that no one in their right mind want to gently caress with. Welp, let's hope Taz brings her diplomacy A-game because a trenchcoat and a crappy katana isn't going to do squat to something like that.
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May 24, 2021 19:03
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Gun Jam posted:a combination of WWII-imperial japan mixed with (nineties? eightes?) "japan takes over the world" scare (told that was common in cyberpunk/speculation?), but my knowledge's limited. so...Shadowrun lore goons, help? yes, with some anime stuck in there
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May 24, 2021 19:11
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Broken Box posted:Right, which makes me wonder what the hell they *thought* they were up against, because I doubt anyone would willingly go out against Red Samurai if they had a clue. Even if the individual members of the SWAT didn't know, someone must have realized they were wasting an asset. Heck, most Shadowrunner teams are going to think twice (and require hazard pay) before deliberately going up against the RS. (Note: There is a difference between 'do a run against Renraku corporate interests' and 'do something that's guaranteed to get the Reds sent after you' -- Renraku doesn't send out the Samurai for trivial offenses like robbing a manufacturing plant or damaging some property. But wise Shadowrunners will bear in mind that they don't know what the exact line is and will try to err on the side of caution by avoiding as much collateral damage as possible when hitting something Renraku owns)
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May 24, 2021 19:15
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Gun Jam posted:Aside how's this setting's japan? I think it's a combination of WWII-imperial japan mixed with (nineties? eightes?) "japan takes over the world" scare (told that was common in cyberpunk/speculation?), but my knowledge's limited. so...Shadowrun lore goons, help? You've basically got it. Japan's home to three of the ten AAA corporations that sit on the Corporate Court in Renraku, Shiawase, and Mitsuhama. They had five AAAs at one point, but Yamatetsu decamped to Russia and changed their name to Evo while Fuchi got wrecked by corporate infighting. By way of comparison, Europe has Saeder-Krupp, China has Wuxing, the Americas have Ares, NeoNET, Aztechnology, and Horizon. When Yamatetsu was coming up, the non-Japan corps supported its bid for a AAA status just to break the control of the other Japanese megas. Japan in Shadowrun is also very human-supremacist, IIRC they basically forced the metahuman population of the country onto a single island concentration camp. My recollection is that the current regime has improved their lot a fair amount, but it's still pretty racist even in an already racist world. habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 19:25 on May 24, 2021 |
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May 24, 2021 19:18
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Gun Jam posted:Aside how's this setting's japan? I think it's a combination of WWII-imperial japan mixed with (nineties? eightes?) "japan takes over the world" scare (told that was common in cyberpunk/speculation?), but my knowledge's limited. so...Shadowrun lore goons, help? Largely this, complete with occupying various territories around the pacific rim, either directly or indirectly. It's essentially the closest thing to a nation state superpower this universe has; it's one of the 3 entities operating nuclear aircraft carriers, it's the home of 3 of the 10 AAA megacorps, and unlike a number of other places, the government still generally has some clout over them. For example, at the time this game takes place, I think Japanese corps have been pushed into not fighting another outside of Japan in order to better enforce imperial hegemony over foreign territories. Nationalistic pride has also reached WW2 levels and there are laws in place enforcing racial purity. Any non-human is at the very least not considered a citizen, and not unlikely to be shipped out of the country or worse. Later on in the timeline things happen and Japan suddenly finds itself having to cut down on their imperialist tendencies. The new empress also happens to be a lot less of a traditionalist than might be expected, and has started trying to reverse some of the laws that were passed shortly after the Awakening.
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May 24, 2021 19:20
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Gun Jam posted:Aside how's this setting's japan? I think it's a combination of WWII-imperial japan mixed with (nineties? eightes?) "japan takes over the world" scare (told that was common in cyberpunk/speculation?), but my knowledge's limited. so...Shadowrun lore goons, help? That's pretty much it, yeah. Super racist (to the point that metahumans are shipped off to concentration camps and families that have one of their kids goblinized in particular tend to murder them or do their utmost to hide that fact because it's a ticket to Big Social Shunning), super insular, super nationalists. Of course, real life Japan already had a leg up over the rest of the world when it comes to dedicated, overworked salarymen... Oh, and the corpos are also into reviving the Co-prosperity Sphere, albeit through less obvious means. A Red Samurai ghoul makes little sense in that context btw - IIRC the RS tentatively allow elves in IF they're already poo poo hot mages before training, but otherwise they're very much human supremacists. If a RS were to somehow catch HMHVV on the job, they'd be expected to disembowel themselves posthaste (and if they relented, their squadmates would oblige just as quickly)
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May 24, 2021 19:21
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Japan also had to deal with a huge wave of earthquakes and volcanoes going off in 2061, which, among a whole bunch of other things, happened to kill the Emperor and his family. That forced them to pull back from previous imperial conquests
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May 24, 2021 19:33
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srhk is 2056
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May 24, 2021 19:38
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kaosdrachen posted:Heck, most Shadowrunner teams are going to think twice (and require hazard pay) before deliberately going up against the RS. All of the AAA megacorps take a different overall tactic to protecting themselves from Shadowrunners. Renraku's can mostly be summed up as "We can't actually stop them all the time, but we can make them nervous enough to use a light touch and that's valuable in its own way".
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May 24, 2021 20:44
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compare to fellow japanacorp mitsuhama, whose approach is "machine gun go brrrr"
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May 24, 2021 21:06
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A lot of Shadowrunners have the opinion that the modern Red Samurai aren't the bleeding edge nightmares they once were, but they're still a death sentence because if you manage to fend them off, Renraku now needs you dead twice as much because you've become a threat to the corporate asset that is the reputation of the Red Samurai. Though that could just be Shadowrunner bluster. "I'm not scared of the Red Samurai, it'd just be annoying to have to deal with them."
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May 24, 2021 21:31
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Going nonlethal is just good business. The corp you hit last month is going to hire you to hit their competitor next month.
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May 24, 2021 21:48
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Tehan posted:"I'm not scared of the Red Samurai, it'd just be annoying to have to deal with them." Famous last words.
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May 24, 2021 22:04
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bob dobbs is dead posted:compare to fellow japanacorp mitsuhama, whose approach is "machine gun go brrrr" Mitsuhama's is that the best defense is merciless, ridiculous, overkill.
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May 24, 2021 22:40
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Zero Zone thinking is not "how many movable turrets should I cover this corridor with." It's "when intruders roll into cover here, the flamethrower traps spring open." Runners are crazy, so they'll tool up and hit a Zero Zone anyway. It just means that MCT is setting a baseline of required violence to get into their secure areas.
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May 24, 2021 22:50
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Above all else, the Zero Zone concept is a way for GMs to design horrible death trap dungeons with the full backing of the game lore so players can't complain about it after they accept the run.
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May 24, 2021 23:11
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wiegieman posted:Zero Zone thinking is not "how many movable turrets should I cover this corridor with." It's "when intruders roll into cover here, the flamethrower traps spring open." One of the things I liked in the previous LP is when the Aztechnology corpo hires you, she's scared as poo poo of you because while we as shadowrunners are scared of the corpos, the regular wage slave looks at runners the same way a demon might look at the Doom Slayer: Insane, unstoppable mega badasses that no security can stop and ventilate entire security teams in a manner of minutes. Imagine what a Mitsuhama corpo thinks when he looks at a Zero Zone and goes "This is the minimum required to semi-reliably stop a team of runners." Of course we are on the other side and we see how screwed we are most of the time, but it's funny that while the corpos are functionally invincible, at a personal level shadowrunners are the corpo's boogymen
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May 24, 2021 23:18
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It should be noted that most Red Samurai use guns like everyone else. It's just that a few start taking the unit name too seriously and start using their ceremonial katanas as major weapons.
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May 24, 2021 23:33
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This is why Zero Zones are a thing:Kanfy posted:[The guard steps forward, interposing himself between you and the terminal.] Normal corporate life, there's constant screw-ups and miscommunications and scheduling oddities that people get used to working around, and that leaves little gaps that Shadowrunners can slip into. In a Zero Zone, there's none of that. If someone is there that is not supposed to be there, they die. No hesitation, no questions, no wiggle room. Kill them first and work out if they were a Shadowrunner later. If Management really did forget to tell security about a maintenance sweep, then the deaths of that maintenance team is an accepted price to pay for Zero Zone protection.
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May 24, 2021 23:35
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Your security clearance doesn't authorize you to be in here.
We're doing a building-wide maintenance sweep of all major systems. Want us to take a look at your terminal?
You know how it is with us and Management. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. It's ridiculous.
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And it's a blemish on Management's record, so it better not happen for their sake too.
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May 24, 2021 23:45
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habeasdorkus posted:Japan also had to deal with a huge wave of earthquakes and volcanoes going off in 2061, which, among a whole bunch of other things, happened to kill the Emperor and his family. That forced them to pull back from previous imperial conquests Yeah, the current Emperor apparently had a half brother who Goblinized and was sent to Yomi Island (the aforementioned island concentration camp in the Philippines who used to be an Imperial territory and only just won their independence back after the Ring of Fire and the backing of the Sixth World’s youngest Great Dragon, Masaru, and his Huk independence movement), who now serves as his very menacing bodyguard, much to the consternation of the traditionalists in the Imperial Household Agency, and because of this, one of his first acts as Emperor was to repeal the Yomi Island decree which banished all of the empire’s non-humans there. Also, his wife is the daughter of the chairman of Shiawase, but also used to be a decker of some repute and is a lot less accommodating to the megacorp than she was expected to be. But yes, the Japanocorps (the AAAs and the AAs, like Sony, which still exists) are supposed to be cooperating outside of Japan to project a united front after the Ring of Fire, at the insistence of the new Emperor. Oh, and Japan’s Imperial territories included San Francisco and the greater Silicon Valley area, and a lot of outposts (to protect their nuclear generating stations providing power to the countries said territories were based in) on the Pacific Rim of South America, which was handy (for the Japanese megacorps) when Peru was found to have Orichalcum after Halley’s Comet passed by in 2064. But yeah, the average Japanese salaryman sees himself as a corporate warrior bringing the light of the Japanocorps to the benighted rest of the world, one office shift after the other, because it’s all they know. Some might even take it further and buy a corporate branded katana (legal to own in the JIS!) as part of the latest fashion trend, and actually spend some time practicing with it at a corporate dojo or download a skillsoft, just to show their pride in the country. They’re the best in the world, and they have to show the gaijin in the rest of the world and the dirty non-humans it every single day. habeasdorkus posted:You've basically got it. Japan's home to three of the ten AAA corporations that sit on the Corporate Court in Renraku, Shiawase, and Mitsuhama. They had five AAAs at one point, but Yamatetsu decamped to Russia and changed their name to Evo while Fuchi got wrecked by corporate infighting. By way of comparison, Europe has Saeder-Krupp, China has Wuxing, the Americas have Ares, NeoNET, Aztechnology, and Horizon. When Yamatetsu was coming up, the non-Japan corps supported its bid for a AAA status just to break the control of the other Japanese megas. Notably, Evo was half Japanese, half Filipino, and neither side really got along with the other, leading to constant infighting, but they still managed to snag a Corp Court seat. They moved their HQ to Vladivostok because the Japanese side all but revolted when the CEO’s son took over with the backing of the free spirit Buttercup, who currently advises the new Japanese Emperor. Said CEO’s son was an Ork and had been left for dead by his dad, and when he showed up to a board meeting with Buttercup’s newly purchased significant minority of shares backing him for CEO, dad had a heart attack, IIRC. Also, Wuxing probably cannot be said to represent China, since there is no China at the moment as it Balkanized early in the Sixth World after Lung waking up buried much of their nuclear stockpile, and then the Southern Chinese provinces as the Canton Confederation decided it was better to go it alone and join the rest of the world in going hyper capitalist. We’ll see some of that in this game in the background, but Wuxing (at this point in the timeline, they might not even count yet as a AAA) more represents the HK Free Enterprise Zone itself. Also, lol the UCAS has no megacorps anymore as of the current lore due to the Ares fuckup leading to Bug City 2.0 in Detroit, on top of NeoNET’s CFD Virus and subsequent lockdown wrecking Boston at the end of the previous edition as well. GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 01:08 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 01:06
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Tehan posted:A lot of Shadowrunners have the opinion that the modern Red Samurai aren't the bleeding edge nightmares they once were, but they're still a death sentence because if you manage to fend them off, Renraku now needs you dead twice as much because you've become a threat to the corporate asset that is the reputation of the Red Samurai. Though that could just be Shadowrunner bluster. "I'm not scared of the Red Samurai, it'd just be annoying to have to deal with them." That's also in modern Shadowrun, which is (to my awareness) at least fifty to a hundred years after these games. Regardless, the Red Samurai are basically the raw distillation of every Anime Samurai Trope about honor and discipline and raw killing power, except instead of serving a feudal lord they serve a corporation. And despite being touted as strong enough to cut down 100 wageslave rent-a-cops without breaking a sweat, they travel in highly trained squads. Also, yes, the moniker is just that; there are certainly close-ranged specialists that would use a bladed melee weapon, but it's just as likely (if not more-so, given the setting) for a Red Samurai to be a mage or a sniper or any other role you'd find in a typical squad. What matters isn't your weaponry, it's how effectively you can do your job with it. GhostStalker posted:Also, lol the UCAS has no megacorps anymore as of the current lore due to the Ares fuckup leading to Bug City 2.0 in Detroit, on top of NeoNET’s CFD Virus and subsequent lockdown wrecking Boston at the end of the previous edition as well. "fuckup". Naturally, a prominent conspiracy theory is that the Bugs were in Ares all along. Tehan posted:Normal corporate life, there's constant screw-ups and miscommunications and scheduling oddities that people get used to working around, and that leaves little gaps that Shadowrunners can slip into. In a Zero Zone, there's none of that. If someone is there that is not supposed to be there, they die. No hesitation, no questions, no wiggle room. Kill them first and work out if they were a Shadowrunner later. If Management really did forget to tell security about a maintenance sweep, then the deaths of that maintenance team is an accepted price to pay for Zero Zone protection. They're called Zero Zones for a reason. Zero tolerance, zero penetration, zero survivors. If someone tries to break into one, Mitsuhama doesn't care about who sent them or why they're there. Mitsuhama wants that person killed so dead that there's not even astral residue left. Heavy weaponry is just the start, honestly; Mitsuhama is also known to have top-notch magical/astral defenses, and even has been known to use paracritters (paranormal wild animals) in zero zone defense. Those who were here for last thread remember talking about the deeply terrifying hell that is the Australian Outback in the Sixth World; now imagine one of the beasts from there trained to attack anything on sight. Thematically relevant to the other discussion, did you know that Sixth World koalas/Drop Bears can actively turn invisible when they're inactive and are known carriers of HMHVV? KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 01:26 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 01:22
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KataraniSword posted:That's also in modern Shadowrun, which is (to my awareness) at least fifty to a hundred years after these games. quote:"fuckup". I wouldn’t doubt it, there were hints going back to the end of 4th Ed. Probably not from the beginning, but maybe shortly after Bug City in Chicago and the Cermak Blast. Those who fight monsters and all that. It was clear the devs had no idea what to do with Ares that didn’t involve Bug City 2.0.
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May 25, 2021 01:47
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KataraniSword posted:Thematically relevant to the other discussion, did you know that Sixth World koalas/Drop Bears can actively turn invisible when they're inactive and are known carriers of HMHVV? That's a step up from the chlamydia that the regular ones carry.
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May 25, 2021 02:36
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I’d never heard of Red Samurai before now (not that big on Shadowrun lore), but yeah, they don’t sound like people whom we should trouble. There’s probably more to the mystery, however. Looking forward to further investigation soon.
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May 25, 2021 20:33
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I'm not dismissing the ghouled samurai idea (lone survivor of a team?) because it begs the question: if this is a Red Samurai operation, then why the secrecy and what the hell did the Whampoa do? It sounds like the Red Samurai are not sent in when Renraku wants to keep things discrete, and they sound like the kind of people that Kindly Chen would probably be aware of if they were conducting operations in her area. Of course, the other option is that the killer is someone or something nasty enough to whack a Red Samurai or team thereof, which is a whole other kettle of fish...
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May 25, 2021 20:41
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Or maybe he’s just a fanboy and not a real Red Samurai. Is there traffic in Renraku trophies or surplus on the black market?
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May 25, 2021 20:44
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Remember, all we know for now is
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May 25, 2021 20:55
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Cythereal posted:It sounds like the Red Samurai are not sent in when Renraku wants to keep things discrete No, they're usually in the "We would like to make an example and also possibly headlines" folder. Dareon posted:Remember, all we know for now is
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May 25, 2021 21:34
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achtungnight posted:Or maybe he’s just a fanboy and not a real Red Samurai. Is there traffic in Renraku trophies or surplus on the black market? 
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May 25, 2021 21:54
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 It was a chicken nugget and it was delicious.
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May 25, 2021 23:23
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Cythereal posted:Of course, the other option is that the killer is someone or something nasty enough to whack a Red Samurai or team thereof, which is a whole other kettle of fish... Yeah, this is the option you don't wanna see - someone (or some thing) Renraku is after who managed to down a squad of Red Samurai. Maybe something the Whampoans were trying to protect? The Sammies torture and kill a few elders to find out where it is, then get blendered in the parking garage?
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May 25, 2021 23:39
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Renraku do have a similar group with a less headline-grabbing style, who are imaginatively titled Red Ninja.
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May 26, 2021 01:14
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Poil posted:I suspect that a Red Samurai poser would need to be extremely good to avoid the copyright infringement charges. The problem is, that once you get good enough to avoid the legal charges, then you have to worry about the explosive charges. The ones planted by the Red Samurai squad that want you eliminated to protect both their honor and Renraku's. Which means we run into the same problem of "if it's related to the Red Samurai at all then the hyper-efficient corporate assassination team is the least bad option".
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May 26, 2021 01:16
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GhostStalker posted:Notably, Evo was half Japanese, half Filipino, and neither side really got along with the other, leading to constant infighting, but they still managed to snag a Corp Court seat. They moved their HQ to Vladivostok because the Japanese side all but revolted when the CEO’s son took over with the backing of the free spirit Buttercup, who currently advises the new Japanese Emperor. Said CEO’s son was an Ork and had been left for dead by his dad, and when he showed up to a board meeting with Buttercup’s newly purchased significant minority of shares backing him for CEO, dad had a heart attack, IIRC Wasn't this one of the little surprises hidden in Big D's will?
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May 26, 2021 12:54
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Loxbourne posted:Wasn't this one of the little surprises hidden in Big D's will? I think the only thing concerning Buttercup in Dunklezahn’s will was a comic book collection, because Big D knew she preferred manga and wanted her to have an appreciation of the art form. Buttercup could afford to purchase the Yamatetsu shares herself because she has a particularly powerful Wealth generation power as a spirit, she literally shits out rare magical reagents that she can sell for the nuyen.
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May 26, 2021 13:35
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GhostStalker posted:, she literally shits out rare magical reagents that she can sell for the nuyen. "don't ask. But do clean first"
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May 26, 2021 18:03
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GhostStalker posted:I think the only thing concerning Buttercup in Dunklezahn’s will was a comic book collection, because Big D knew she preferred manga and wanted her to have an appreciation of the art form. I know a lot of stuff in Dunk's will is chess moves in a bigger game and some is just "Here, a gift." The comics books are probably the latter, but I just had a few giggly minutes of picturing "Yamatetsu is now producing spandex-clad superheroes and this is entirely according to Dunkelzahn's plan." Also yeah, I missed the fragment was initially described as red before we picked it up, my bad.
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May 26, 2021 21:47
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