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That's a different phenomenon, related to how your body can, say, walk itself down the hall without your having to QWOP every muscle and tendon, or how a guitar player can shred out a solo he's played 10,000 times faster than he can think about the notes, i.e. once you've done something often enough, your brain outsources doing it to a sort of script function so you don't have to think about every bit of it consciously.
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May 27, 2021 12:24
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Why don’t people just go for a nice walk/drive/meditation without their boss mandating they do so? 
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May 27, 2021 12:28
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Dongsturm posted:I don't know if that is what is happening though. Don't most people commute in city traffic, and it's more like crawling bumper to bumper for 45 minutes? I've never had a meditative experience in that traffic, it has always left me twitchy and agitated. I don't think these people are the ones missing the commute TBH. My commute is now 20-30min of nearly always traffic-free highway and I like it, but I did not like the previous one that was 1 to 2h randomly, with city driving bullshit and daily traffic jams.
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May 27, 2021 12:57
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Because there is no obligation to do so. It's similar to the thing some people have where they "relax" on holiday by making themselves an extremely dense timetable of activities that must be completed, then come back to work exhausted and stressed because they failed to finish their to-do list of leisure activities. They cannot allow downtime without an enforced external pressure. The commute provides a period outside of the normal day where you have justification for not being productive.
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May 27, 2021 12:58
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goatface posted:Because there is no obligation to do so. It'd be beneficial if more people were okay with allowing themselves to be alone with their thoughts, doing nothing. Blaise Pascal posted:All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.
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May 27, 2021 13:03
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Samuel L. Hacksaw posted:You don't have to actually be friends, you can treat it like a dating sim where you get better jobs as you level up your friendship with the right people. That sounds a lot harder than just finding ppl you like at work and keeping up with them when they leave
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May 27, 2021 13:12
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I mainly miss my commute because it's part of my working day, and I get paid to do it. In the before times, I worked from home some days, went to customer site on other days, often on a train, which meant I got paid to sit and read if there were no emails coming in.
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May 27, 2021 13:34
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My work was never forced into a wfh routine but they allowed and encourage(d) it, so I still do it sometimes for half days so I can be at home with my kids more. I usually go out for a drive after the work day regardless of whether it's a commute to home or just a drive around/to the store when I'm working from home. I've never experienced the "meditative" drive that some people do, I'm just a passionate driver and love driving  . I daily drive a classic car so it's a different sort of enjoyment but I totally get that people miss their commutes. I can see that middle manager types are using it with corporate speak to get people back in the office so owners don't realize those managers are completely pointless and redundant, but it's totally legit that people like their daily commutes.
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May 27, 2021 14:22
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I really like sitting on a train for half an hour with my thoughts. Add delays or overcrowding and it is instant stress and misery. And while I could get upand meditate half an hour, without a practical motivator I'll just sleep another half hour and my mood won't be an inch better for it.
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May 27, 2021 14:32
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Again, another aspect of WFH that says more about me and my brokebrain than WFH but remains true nevertheless: I had bariatric surgery JUST before COVID hit and have lost a shitload of weight. A year+ later now that I'm at goal and more worried about maintaining than losing more, I find getting back to the office helps me because I have to be seen by other people, not wear pajamas and comically huge t-shirts that don't fit me anymore, and don't have my kitchen ten feet away to tempt me to restlessly graze without anyone judging me. Simply having to put on nice clothes that fit and go be seen by other people helps me in this regard, for the same reason I'm sure other people find it odious. At least one study has found that Americans gained an average of 2 pounds per month during the lockdown. I realize it's not inevitable but I would love to see real statistics (as opposed to anecdotes) about how many people gain weight when they transition to WFH. I suspect more than half gain rather than lose.
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May 27, 2021 15:42
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 I work at a car dealership, this poo poo drives me crazy. Hint: It's not Target
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May 27, 2021 16:20
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Prism Mirror Lens posted:Why don’t people just go for a nice walk/drive/meditation without their boss mandating they do so?
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May 27, 2021 16:28
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bikesonyx posted:
What exactly is going on here?
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May 27, 2021 16:50
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Imagined posted:Again, another aspect of WFH that says more about me and my brokebrain than WFH but remains true nevertheless: I had bariatric surgery JUST before COVID hit and have lost a shitload of weight. A year+ later now that I'm at goal and more worried about maintaining than losing more, I find getting back to the office helps me because I have to be seen by other people, not wear pajamas and comically huge t-shirts that don't fit me anymore, and don't have my kitchen ten feet away to tempt me to restlessly graze without anyone judging me. Simply having to put on nice clothes that fit and go be seen by other people helps me in this regard, for the same reason I'm sure other people find it odious. Some what similar reasons for me. Routine works very, very well to manage my ADHD (in addition to medication, etc). So I work out in the office building gym* and go into the office even though there is no one there. WFH is just too hard to make a routine for me and there is too much temptation to e.g. play video games over lunch and then I realize it’s 4 pm and I blew half a day. I don’t feel bad about gaming on company time, I just don’t want to get fired because I didn’t actually ever get any work done. It’s like that highway syndrome wiki page where turning something into a routine hides it from my ADHD conscious mind so it can’t gently caress it up or require limited mental energy to consciously push back against the ADHD. I understand this doesn’t apply to most people. *One minor perk is that the building gym has basically turned into my own personal fitness center. There is no one there, ever.
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May 27, 2021 17:16
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Outrail posted:What exactly is going on here? Did someone take a shopping cart and start using it to move parts around a dealership? When I worked at Costco years ago our managers found out a neighboring apt building had a collection of our carts they used to move stuff around and we were sent to retrieve them. We got them back without a fuss, there must have been over 20 or so. It was interesting working with fellow teens who were in their first job ever. Most were fine but it was odd trying to tell a new guy when it's 90+ degrees out he should accept the sunscreen and water cooler, and not opt for a giant coke and pizza before starting an 8 hour shift. At least we got him into the shade a few hours later before his body totally quit on him. Hyrax Attack! fucked around with this message at 17:36 on May 27, 2021 |
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May 27, 2021 17:32
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Zarin posted:Triple-posting but I don't care! Ok but directly above you is Zarin posted:But yeah, if you don't have the room/resources/dispostion to create a space that you're happy with to do work from home, then yeah I can definitely see your point of view here. I've been in a temporary pre-furnished apartment for a month, with almost a month left to go, and if THIS was my WFH experience I'd be ready to chew my own torso off to get away from it The problem isn't that people are working from home and they think I don't understand why they're mad they have to go back into the office, the problem is that they don't understand that some people WANT to go back, because working from home regardless of circumstances, setup, home life, etc DOES NOT WORK FOR THEM. zedprime posted:The mental state of 'going to work' or 'going to home from work' are necessary triggers for some people. Again you might as well ask why everyone doesn't sun their rear end in a top hat in the dawn light. Pulcinella posted:Some what similar reasons for me. Routine works very, very well to manage my ADHD (in addition to medication, etc). So I work out in the office building gym* and go into the office even though there is no one there. WFH is just too hard to make a routine for me and there is too much temptation to e.g. play video games over lunch and then I realize it’s 4 pm and I blew half a day. I don’t feel bad about gaming on company time, I just don’t want to get fired because I didn’t actually ever get any work done. It’s like that highway syndrome wiki page where turning something into a routine hides it from my ADHD conscious mind so it can’t gently caress it up or require limited mental energy to consciously push back against the ADHD. I understand this doesn’t apply to most people. It's all this. It's like saying "why be depressed? Why not just choose to be happy? Bing bong so simple" and then getting confused that people are upset about it. It doesn't work that way! It doesn't matter how nice my home is, or my desk! It doesn't matter that my commute is nice or terrible! Volmarias fucked around with this message at 18:10 on May 27, 2021 |
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May 27, 2021 18:08
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Volmarias posted:Ok but directly above you is Yeah, and if you could stop being poor while you're at it that would be great.
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May 27, 2021 19:10
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Volmarias posted:Ok but directly above you is As an introvert I survived the transitions from office to cubicle to open floor plan and was expected to suck it up and deal with it, so not feeling much sympathy tbh (except people with little kids or that goon with the aunt, poor bastard)
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May 27, 2021 19:13
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Sloppy posted:As an introvert I survived the transitions from office to cubicle to open floor plan and was expected to suck it up and deal with it, so not feeling much sympathy tbh (except people with little kids or that goon with the aunt, poor bastard)
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May 27, 2021 19:17
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Sloppy posted:As an introvert I survived the transitions from office to cubicle to open floor plan and was expected to suck it up and deal with it, so not feeling much sympathy tbh (except people with little kids or that goon with the aunt, poor bastard) A year away from the constant anxiety of being surrounded by other people and ending every day with a massive headache from that combined with trying to focus through their noise has been so nice. Not sure how long I'm gonna tolerate being forced back into that.
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May 27, 2021 19:27
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Sounds like a lot of you guys aren't team players, just wanting to get your work done. I think we need some teambuilding exercises and maybe even a cheerful morning chant or celebration!
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May 27, 2021 19:30
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my soul cant take going back to doing scrum meetings in person and i will fight each and every one of you to stay home and avoid spiritual death
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May 27, 2021 19:35
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zedprime posted:It's not a competition. Our bosses want it to be but it's not. Yeah, that's fair. My post sounded pretty boomer-ish I guess 
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May 27, 2021 19:36
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zedprime posted:It's not a competition. Our bosses want it to be but it's not. I agree, but it is somewhat frustrating to see all the ammunition the bosses are going to use to take WFH away from everyone.
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May 27, 2021 19:45
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I don't really understand why any business would want to have people working in an office. Surely keeping a fancy office is a massive expense? Wouldn't it be better to have a smaller office that people can book for meetings etc. but then let them work from home the rest of the time? I generally trust my team to do their jobs, and I have very clear and obvious metrics that would show if they weren't. I'm guessing that the concern is that people will slack off without having someone over their shoulder the entire time, but I don't care if they achieve what they need to in a few hours and spend the rest of their day playing video games or looking after their kids or whatever, as far as I'm concerned, they're paid for the results they get, not the hours they do to achieve those results.
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May 27, 2021 20:04
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dick wizard posted:my soul cant take going back to doing scrum meetings in person and i will fight each and every one of you to stay home and avoid spiritual death theres really no reason to have live scrums
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May 27, 2021 20:08
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dick wizard posted:my soul cant take going back to doing scrum meetings in person and i will fight each and every one of you to stay home and avoid spiritual death I don't mind scrum meetings except for when I'm pulled off on 40 other things to do for a day, it feels awful to go "uh, I didn't do poo poo on this project", especially if a PO is in the meeting.
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May 27, 2021 20:09
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Scientastic posted:I don't really understand why any business would want to have people working in an office. Surely keeping a fancy office is a massive expense? Wouldn't it be better to have a smaller office that people can book for meetings etc. but then let them work from home the rest of the time? I generally trust my team to do their jobs, and I have very clear and obvious metrics that would show if they weren't. This is an atypical managerial mindset, that's why.
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May 27, 2021 20:28
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thathonkey posted:theres really no reason to have live scrums It gives middle management something to do. Scientastic posted:I don't really understand why any business would want to have people working in an office. Surely keeping a fancy office is a massive expense? Wouldn't it be better to have a smaller office that people can book for meetings etc. but then let them work from home the rest of the time? I generally trust my team to do their jobs, and I have very clear and obvious metrics that would show if they weren't. Yeah I acknowledge that many people need to be in an office from the nature of their work, and that some goons do not want to work from home, but this 100% fits my situation. They pay me for 40 hours of work and this is being completed. No reason for me to be at a different location doing the exact same thing.
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May 27, 2021 20:30
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Cthulu Carl posted:What were the arguments against using 'littoral'? Probably something along the lines of "The drooling masses have no idea what that word means, and will confuse it for a misspelling of 'literal'". My dumb poo poo: I know you're trying, Vendor IT guy for an unbelievably convoluted piece of higher education ERP software, but we've been going back and forth to get this API working for a month, please just escalate the ticket. 
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May 27, 2021 20:30
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Sardonik posted:My dumb poo poo: Speaking of IT guys, have I got one now. Gotta cut costs by cutting unnecessary staff, yknow. Remaining IT staff that can work with our division: 0 (Old database wizard is still around but tickets are a stone wall of silence. Hey, remember all those processes I mentioned that have to run through IT tickets because they won't trust us with database update tools?)
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May 27, 2021 20:38
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Scientastic posted:I don't really understand why any business would want to have people working in an office. Surely keeping a fancy office is a massive expense? Wouldn't it be better to have a smaller office that people can book for meetings etc. but then let them work from home the rest of the time? I generally trust my team to do their jobs, and I have very clear and obvious metrics that would show if they weren't. A bit of administrative tax work too as an example: WFH opens up a huge mixture of municipalities and states/tax collecting regions that your employees can work in and then your employees (and municipalities) expect payroll to manage.
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May 27, 2021 21:02
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Volmarias posted:Ok but directly above you is Ah, see, I think I was looking at it the other way - I guess I see the people saying that as a sort of pushback reaction to being forced back into the office. That is to say, if you asked everyone individually "Should people stay working from home, go back into the office, or be allowed to choose?" I think everyone in this thread would say "Eh, let 'em choose". But because so many companies are doing their best Scorpion impression, that is setting the tone for the narrative - which is making people sound more unsympathetic to the people who truly DO want to go back than they otherwise would, I think. Maybe I'm being too generous to people as a whole, though!  Personally, I was a huge proponent of WFH pre-COVID. Now having WFH for over a year, I think I appreciate the benefits of in-person communication a bit more now. For my tastes, I'd like to go into the office 1-2 days a week with everyone, then WFH the rest of the time. If others wanted to work in the office 5 days a week, there's definitely room for that in that model as well. Hell, even WFH - if you have a conference room, just turn on the phone or whatever. Strangely, some of the biggest opponents of WFH that I've ever met had overseas people on their teams that regularly dialed into meetings. How is someone sitting at home vs. somebody sitting in an office half the planet away really any different, when you get right down to it?
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May 27, 2021 21:04
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Honestly being in the office by myself or with the two other extroverts in the building while 90% of everyone else works from home is kind of best of both world for me. I can smack my gum and tap my feet and hum a tune and play music out loud and do all the other things that would make me a terrible office neighbor, pretend I'm Homer Simpson in that episode where the rest of Springfield gets obliterated by le bombe neutron oh I've wasted my life and just enjoy blissful productivity in a deserted office and hopefully still get home before the ghouls eat my skin, and we will just see who looks like zee frog now. Last spring when I kept coming in to digitize incoming physical mail to send out to the people working from home felt like the perpetual last week of high school before summer vacation, it was great.
Imagined fucked around with this message at 21:18 on May 27, 2021 |
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May 27, 2021 21:16
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How about we compromise: 4 day work week. 1 mandatory office day. 3 days WFH (optional). Once per year employees may vote to boil managers alive in a cartoon cauldron.
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May 27, 2021 21:35
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zedprime posted:Real estate shell games and tax incentives, mostly. That's a good point. I think NYC has been rushing to get city workers back in their offices as commercial real estate is a massive part of their tax base along with hundreds of thousands of commuters spending money during the day. Makes sense if you're running the city and need that revenue to not massively slash the budget, but the feelings of workers who would prefer to be at home doesn't seem to be a consideration.
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May 27, 2021 21:39
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Scientastic posted:I don't really understand why any business would want to have people working in an office. Surely keeping a fancy office is a massive expense? Wouldn't it be better to have a smaller office that people can book for meetings etc. but then let them work from home the rest of the time? I generally trust my team to do their jobs, and I have very clear and obvious metrics that would show if they weren't. Read (or listen) to the book Bullshit Jobs. A lot of the culture of work is about the more people you visibly have working for you, the more status you have.
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May 27, 2021 21:44
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Some more of our staff surveying results came out this week. ~5% of our office said they need/want to be in full time, which is a bit more than how many have been needed to run the minimum-requirements skeleton crew so that sounds about right. Most wanted a day a week or less. Just over 50% of responses to the survey said they never, ever wanted to be in the office on a Friday. Which is honestly lower than I would have expected.
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May 27, 2021 21:54
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Hyrax Attack! posted:That's a good point. I think NYC has been rushing to get city workers back in their offices as commercial real estate is a massive part of their tax base along with hundreds of thousands of commuters spending money during the day. Makes sense if you're running the city and need that revenue to not massively slash the budget, but the feelings of workers who would prefer to be at home doesn't seem to be a consideration. This is true, I know friends in other agencies and my father works for a related agency to mine and literally everybody is like "We can do our jobs reasonably well and productively why the gently caress are we going back". My direct supervisors have been pretty honest in the fact that we've been pretty productive and there's a slight tick compared to working in the office but they're still trying to get everybody back. I spoke to a union rep about this and she confirmed that other agencies have already started forcing people to come to work at regular capacity. People are rightfully bringing this up to higher ups and the union that we should at least do 2 to 3 days in home. Since the pandemic hit its forced a lot of agencies that have been stuck in the early 2000s to finally upgrade their systems at least early 2010s. Like my agency when I got hired late 2019 we were still processing cases by paper. So we'd have these big rear end binders of documents of participants that have been with us for decades. The second we were stuck at home the agency had to start forcing the participants to submit everything by email or online. This poo poo should've been standard practice for 10 years now. Its still a grossly inefficient system but it got a little better because of covid.
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May 27, 2021 21:59
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Just this March they've finally introduced a digital filing system that should have been available 5-10 years ago
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May 27, 2021 22:01
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