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um excuse me
Jan 1, 2016

by Fluffdaddy

Phone posted:

the car can still be flickable, you'll just have to run some toe out in the front (which will destroy your tires if you want to drive several hundred miles on the freeway every week)

also um excuse me's post starting with "tire width has nothing to do with contact patch" is factually just wrong. the rest of the post is good, though.

PSI. Pounds per square inch. You need a certain amount of square inches to support a certain amount of pounds. You know the weight of the car, you know the tire pressure, you calculate the contact patch. There are variables like sidewall strength, but that's the core formula. Based on the contact patch you can calculate (roughly) the vertical displacement of the tire by using the chord length of the tire required to create the necessary contact patch. The wider the tire, the less it deflects to create the same contact patch as a skinnier tire.

um excuse me fucked around with this message at 21:14 on May 17, 2021

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Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。

um excuse me posted:

PSI. Pounds per square inch. You need a certain amount of square inches to support a certain amount of pounds. You know the weight of the car, you know the tire pressure, you calculate the contact patch. There are variables like sidewall strength, but that's the core formula. Based on the contact patch you can calculate (roughly) the vertical displacement of the tire by using the chord length of the tire required to create the necessary contact patch. The wider the tire, the less it deflects to create the same contact patch as a skinnier tire.

What number is bigger: 5 or 8?

asmasm
Nov 26, 2013

um excuse me posted:

Contact patch with two different width tires are actually the same. The tire has to support the weight of an identically heavy car regardless of width. When you start cancelling out both sides of the equation you soon realize that tire pressure is the only part that effects contact patch. I, for example, run 235mm street tires at 35 PSI. I did the math and found out I needed to run 29 PSI in my 275mm tires to get the same vertical deflection, and therefore get the best performance (In reality the pressure is higher because the translated loading on the tire during autocross ends up being much higher than street driving, but the same principle applies).

As to why one has more grip than the other, it doesn't always. Naturally the physics of high performance driving/racing cannot be boiled down to a single sentence. The real answer, as you may have been able to guess by this point, is "it depends". The suspension geometry actually has the largest effect. Any good race car will be designed around the tire.

Slip angle is the measure of the angle between the direction the tire is facing, and the direction the traction surface (the road) is moving. There is a critical slip angle in which the cars inertia overcomes the tire ability to grip the road. You want to stay below that. But also you don't want that to be a sudden transition into oversteer or understeer because you won't be able to tell when it happens unless you are a seasoned pro, but more about that in a second. You want your terminal grip to happen gradually. You want the tire to slowly lose grip to give you enough feedback to be able to correct by letting up on the throttle, brake, or steering angle (lock). That lets you stay closer to the edge and therefore maintain the highest grip and, theoretically, the fastest lap times. Pros need a smaller transition zone because they can react faster, making them even faster on a similar performing set up.

You can manually change the transition feel of a tire with the suspension. The easiest way is with camber. By increasing negative static camber, you can improve overall lateral grip by introducing more tire width as the car leans into a turn. However as tires start cambering positively relative to the road, the transition to loss of grip is very sudden and may result in snap oversteer or front end plowing. The opposite is true for close to zero static camber. The tire begins to roll off it's tread as it leans, resulting in a smoother slip angle transition. This is more dramatic with a wider tire.

Dynamic camber can provide a near zero static camber, but provide negative camber in compression as the car rolls, increasing cornering grip while mainting good straight line traction. Again increasing dynamic camber reduces the slip angle transition making the car snap oversteer or plow. Again, this is more dramatic with a wider tire.

Another way you can maximize grip is by reducing the roll of a car in cornering. But because the tire doesn't slowly roll off the tread as it leans, it also increases snap oversteer or plow. This is why if you want an autocross car to rotate more, you stiffen the rear antisway bar, making the rear slip faster than the front. Again, this is more dramatic with a wider tire.

Not tied with the grip discussion explicitly, Miata guys are faster on 275s for autocross, but when you do time attack, 245s are optimal because the additional grip does not overcome the need for straight line speed. So be careful why you seek grip, it may not be faster, though it may feel that way.

Just FYI the reasoning here is based on a minor mistake in the original assumptions. If tires were super soft balloons, then yes, contact patch area would just be determined by PSI. Tires have a lot of structure and don't behave like that. Also, two tires of different sizes, you are going to run less pressure in the wider tire.

Edit:
"Like putting too much air into a balloon!"

asmasm fucked around with this message at 21:44 on May 17, 2021

um excuse me
Jan 1, 2016

by Fluffdaddy
Lower on wider is what I thought I said. In my follow up post I did mention that there are variables in the tire. While I agree the tire structure does make it behave differently, a deflated tire will still run on the rim if the tire wasn't physically in the way meaning air is a large part of it.

I originally stumbled across this realization not in a book or on track, but actually doing suspension design and trying to figure out how much of a spring the tire is in a system with many difference mechanism for compliance in series (ie, tires, helper spring, main spring, bushings, other body flexures, etc).

For anyone interested, a tire's spring rate is measured in thousands of pounds per inch on just air alone.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
I'm going to highly suggest you read a book, specifically maybe some Carroll Smith ones.

Elysium
Aug 21, 2003
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
What is the most likely reason my NB doesn't start... but only like 1/10 times. 9 times out of 10 it starts right up. The 10th time it just cranks and doesn't catch. And then you go "oh poo poo am I stuck here" and you crank it again... doesn't catch. Maybe 2 or 3 more times. And then magically it catches and starts. Runs perfect on the drive. Then starts right up 5 minutes later, or the next day, or whatever until one time it doesn't again.

Battery just on the edge of not having enough juice? Starter motor? Fuel injectors?

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
I don't know but this happens to me too but like 1/100 times and usually starts the next attempt.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。

Elysium posted:

What is the most likely reason my NB doesn't start... but only like 1/10 times. 9 times out of 10 it starts right up. The 10th time it just cranks and doesn't catch. And then you go "oh poo poo am I stuck here" and you crank it again... doesn't catch. Maybe 2 or 3 more times. And then magically it catches and starts. Runs perfect on the drive. Then starts right up 5 minutes later, or the next day, or whatever until one time it doesn't again.

Battery just on the edge of not having enough juice? Starter motor? Fuel injectors?

Can you hear the fuel pump relay click and prime?

Elysium
Aug 21, 2003
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
Um, I don't know?

Here is a video of me starting it just now. Usually it doesn't even crank this long, but I guess it has been starting worse since it wouldn't start at all (until I waited 5 minutes and 5 tries) at the gas station earlier today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUhHzbCtFf8

When it doesn't start it sounds just like it does from 2-3 seconds in the video... except it keeps going and doesn't start.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
Alright so you blow right past turning the car to ON and immediately start hammering on the starter. The positions are OFF-ACC-ON-START on the key.

From the off position, turn the key to On but don’t hit the starter. Retake that video.

Elysium
Aug 21, 2003
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.

Phone posted:

Alright so you blow right past turning the car to ON and immediately start hammering on the starter. The positions are OFF-ACC-ON-START on the key.

From the off position, turn the key to On but don’t hit the starter. Retake that video.

Ok, how’s this: https://youtube.com/shorts/8il4p0wZtqk?feature=share

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
I can't hear the high pitch whine of the fuel pump being primed or the relay clicking over. :negative:

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:


Going for a ship of Theseus approach to my MX5, chassis rails done, just need to mount up the new sway bar mounts and get those spot welded in, new sway bar, new sway bar brackets, new adjustable end links... Arriving today are new lower control arms for the front, new tie rod ends. There's those little tabs to turn the single shear end link mounts on the control arms into burlier double sheer mounts from Racing Beat on the way too. Sills arrived last week, there's a RHS rear wing to replace, a sill end plate sat in the boot of the car awaiting install... Slowly working my way to the back of the car on this.

Fairly sure the lower control arms will be bushless too so I need to look into what's good to slot into those. Basically I want to daily this thing forever so I'm not going to give it hardcore bushings, I'd like the car to be OEM+ if you get me.

Oh and the new OEM Mazda cam cover gasket I bought last summer before a road trip is leaking a tad and over the course of the drive has basically covered the entirety of the front of the engine in a thin film of oil. So that needs cleaning up. Oh and replacing the cam belt as a precaution again because oil and also finally have the correct water pump.

I now realise this is a lot of poo poo. Hopefully it won't be too long until it's back on the road. :v:

*edit: Got home to find these lower control arms dooooo have bushings in already. Fuckin' A.

Olympic Mathlete fucked around with this message at 19:40 on May 19, 2021

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
What's the goon wisdom on cooling reroute? It's a street car with a few track days per year, on small kart tracks so it's usually not at redline and/or WOT all the time.

I'll be doing the chassis rails as Olympic Mathlete just did and looking what else to knock out at the same time too. Last oil change the level was noticeably lower compared to what I put in, and while some probably leaked out through the valve cover gasket, I want to make sure it doesn't start burning it and damaging the cylinder.

FatCow
Apr 22, 2002
I MAP THE FUCK OUT OF PEOPLE
Stock power in a non-w2w setting I wouldnt bother.

FreelanceSocialist
Nov 19, 2002
Looking at getting Konis installed on my NC. Browsing the parts it seems like the NC does not have an upper strut top mount setup like the NA/NB? Or maybe I am not searching for the correct thing?

I think I figured it out - the NC is just a retainer/cushion/sleeve setup.

FreelanceSocialist fucked around with this message at 17:09 on May 26, 2021

BloodBag
Sep 20, 2008

WITNESS ME!



mobby_6kl posted:

What's the goon wisdom on cooling reroute? It's a street car with a few track days per year, on small kart tracks so it's usually not at redline and/or WOT all the time.

I'll be doing the chassis rails as Olympic Mathlete just did and looking what else to knock out at the same time too. Last oil change the level was noticeably lower compared to what I put in, and while some probably leaked out through the valve cover gasket, I want to make sure it doesn't start burning it and damaging the cylinder.

I did the 949/supermiata reroute and it's lowered my overall operating temps a good bit, at least by the meter on the dash. I live in a hot climate and the car would go over 12 o'clock in stop & go traffic with the AC on. Not by far, but enough to concern me. Autocross would have it going even further. Ever since, I've never had a problem. I installed it with the engine out. I can't imagine doing it with the engine in the car, there's no room back there. Also the cobalt coolant tube is the way to go with that reroute, just cut off the angled section at the back.

mcgreenvegtables
Nov 2, 2004
Yum!
I just ordered a new top for my Miata from Robbins. I was super confused about matching the color on my car, the existing top is not tan but more of a neutral color. Robbins website only shows a tan option, which would not match the "parchment" interior that is more of a light cream than a tan. I called Robbins and it turns out they do stock the "Neutral" color canvas that came stock on 2003-2005 Miatas, they just don't show it on the website for some reason.

Just wanted to put this here in case anyone else is/was confused about this. I will post an update comparing the new top to the old one when it arrives.

Also...the top installer told me I need to make sure my latches both actually work, otherwise the new top will pull itself back. I checked and indeed one of my latches isn't really engaging properly...it will pull the top to the windshield, but you don't actually have to push on the little tab to unlock the latch...which is exactly what the top installer told me to watch out for. Is there a way to adjust this so it works again, or do I need to order a new latch? Or steal one off my hardtop?

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006


There's an adjustment screw but it's for adjusting the tightness of the latch. If they don't lock, you probably need replacement latch locks. I put these in my 2001 when I first got it. The previous owner had been relying on the visors to keep the latches from opening, sigh

https://www.flyinmiata.com/NB/billet-aluminum-top-latch-locks-pair.html

Anyone have any good tips on finding an installer? The Robbins web site lists a few in my area, but of the ones near me, one is closed, one isn't doing top installs anymore, and the last has terrible reviews.

djfooboo
Oct 16, 2004




My radiator just exploded :cry:

Elephanthead
Sep 11, 2008


Toilet Rascal

djfooboo posted:

My radiator just exploded :cry:

Sorry bout that

ethanol
Jul 13, 2007



I put my NC on a lift to fix a heat shield rattle. Discovered the rear diff housing is one hell of a rusty mess. I can't believe how bad it is. There's flakes almost a quarter inch coming off the thing and it's all cracked up.

Getting rid of it soon anyways, but the northeast has not been kind to this car.

Applesnots
Oct 22, 2010

MERRY YOBMAS

Today was a good day.

Ror
Oct 21, 2010

😸Everything's 🗞️ purrfect!💯🤟


god bless Beefy

:iia:

Olympic Mathlete
Feb 25, 2011

:h:


Applesnots posted:

Today was a good day.


Haha, I love that thing. Did we ever get any video of adventures? That's a hint if not.


Unrelated to sick go anywhere convertibles:

I'm swapping out the lower control arms and I note the alignment bolt setup isn't exactly minty fresh and I'm concerned about them not holding an adjustment over time. I see you can get some trick replacements but is there any real need to or am I good to grab a straight replacement set?

Applesnots
Oct 22, 2010

MERRY YOBMAS

Olympic Mathlete posted:

Haha, I love that thing. Did we ever get any video of adventures? That's a hint if not.
No vids, But I got to tear the poo poo out of that yard in the background after that pic was took. Is just mowed field, so it was fun.

ChickenOfTomorrow
Nov 11, 2012

god damn it, you've got to be kind

ChickenOfTomorrow posted:

2016 ND Club Sport, I'm the first owner.

Today marks the second time I've found a crack in my windshield starting at the lower drivers-side and working diagonally up and into my field of view. Is the windshield considered a consumable part on this car, or am I just really unlucky to have this exact same thing happen twice in 5 years???

update: im still waiting for the dealership to schedule a windshield replacement

is this delay b/c of covid or am i just unlucky

nitsuga
Jan 1, 2007

ChickenOfTomorrow posted:

update: im still waiting for the dealership to schedule a windshield replacement

is this delay b/c of covid or am i just unlucky

Seems unlucky to me. I worked with a borderline incompetent company that still managed to get my Golf’s windshield replaced in a week or so. Sounds like you might be trying to get Mazda glass though, so that might complicate matters.

wzm
Dec 12, 2004
Glass replacement on a ND is a nightmare. There's a TSB stating the parts that need to be replaced, but dealers don't seem to keep those parts in stock, and half the dealers I've talked to don't even think that there are any parts that need to be replaced, beyond the glass itself. The normal glass specialists don't have it flagged as needing anything special, so they will schedule the work, and realize they can't complete it part way through the job. Make sure the dealer has the trim pieces before starting, or you might be out a car while they order them. I'm still trying to get my windshield replaced.

As Nero Danced
Sep 3, 2009

Alright, let's do this

wzm posted:

Glass replacement on a ND is a nightmare. There's a TSB stating the parts that need to be replaced, but dealers don't seem to keep those parts in stock, and half the dealers I've talked to don't even think that there are any parts that need to be replaced, beyond the glass itself. The normal glass specialists don't have it flagged as needing anything special, so they will schedule the work, and realize they can't complete it part way through the job. Make sure the dealer has the trim pieces before starting, or you might be out a car while they order them. I'm still trying to get my windshield replaced.

drat, so I guess the parts are damaged in removal?

Unrelated, I saw an NB with BFG all terrains today (I recognize the sidewall from when I was debating buying them for my Mercury, still wish I had gotten them). I was driving and unable to pull out my camera but oh my god it looked so good. Lil Beefies are the only way to go with the first 2 generations.

As Nero Danced fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Jun 2, 2021

Virgil Vox
Dec 8, 2009

Oil cooler and motor mounts

As Nero Danced
Sep 3, 2009

Alright, let's do this

Virgil Vox posted:

Oil cooler and motor mounts



If it's anything like my NC, might want to take this opportunity to replace or upgrade your headlight bulbs. No sense having to remove the front bumper a second time.

wzm
Dec 12, 2004

As Nero Danced posted:

drat, so I guess the parts are damaged in removal?

The parts are damaged in removal, and Mazda has a TSB stating that they must be replaced. Unfortunately, dealers usually farm out glass replacement to other people, and it's up to those shops to be aware of the Mazda TSB before starting work.

FreelanceSocialist
Nov 19, 2002

As Nero Danced posted:

If it's anything like my NC, might want to take this opportunity to replace or upgrade your headlight bulbs. No sense having to remove the front bumper a second time.

On the NC you can access the headlights without taking off the front bumper or going in through the wheel wells or anything too crazy. You can unbolt and move the washer fluid reservoir and the fuse box to get to them. Unless you mean replacing or upgrading the entire headlight assembly - in that case yeah, it's a pain.

As Nero Danced
Sep 3, 2009

Alright, let's do this

FreelanceSocialist posted:

On the NC you can access the headlights without taking off the front bumper or going in through the wheel wells or anything too crazy. You can unbolt and move the washer fluid reservoir and the fuse box to get to them. Unless you mean replacing or upgrading the entire headlight assembly - in that case yeah, it's a pain.

I tried moving the fusebox but it wasn't cooperating, and even if I could move it back the two or so inches wouldn't have given me enough room to maneuver the metal clip out of the way. Passenger side wasn't bad though.

Virgil Vox
Dec 8, 2009

The front bumper on the ND is pretty easy, takes time for all these plastic clips but it's not hard. Getting the fitment back on though, ehh its close and looks good but it's not as perfect. Got the oil cooler running and only had one leak that was fixed by tightening. Motor mounts added a lot of shakes but we'll see if they settle. I've only ran the car in the garage so far.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Just came across this video which was probably posted years ago though I don't remember seeing it ITT. It's a Koenigsegg driver Robert Serwanski on the ring with a stock engine NC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhWwl4bqeoY

The mods are a bit more extensive than I initially thought but you could probably get close results without doing everything. You can see a GTR fly past him in an uphill section where he has no power but he's carrying pretty scary speeds through corners. I'd imagine an ND2 could do even better though.

mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Jun 6, 2021

Virgil Vox
Dec 8, 2009

I need a pad that's a step up from the portersfield r4s , suggestions? I'm eyeing Hawk dtc 30

FatCow
Apr 22, 2002
I MAP THE FUCK OUT OF PEOPLE
Dtc 30a are a dirt pad. Dtc 60 or ht-10 if you want Hawk.

Gloc seems to get alll the buzz these days though.

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Applesnots
Oct 22, 2010

MERRY YOBMAS

I just wanted to see if i could do it.

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