(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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I took hydrocodones a couple years ago for some dental work, and it was only enough to get me high for about an hour. That poo poo was so good, if you offered me some right now I'd immediately jump at the chance. That's the kind of strictly controlled and exclusively medical regulation a socialist society should have for opioids. You just need to trust that once empowered, the people will be able to come up with sensible drug policies that are draconian for the really dangerous stuff while also encouraging responsible use of the fun stuff.
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Jun 1, 2021 08:54
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| # ? May 23, 2024 14:02 |
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lmao at a thread full of adherents of Marx and Engels, Luxemburg, Lenin etc. straightfacedly insisting to one another that loving is anticommunist actually
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Jun 1, 2021 10:08
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Lightningproof, it's not ok to have sex with your students. "Oh wow, so I can't have sex at all, huh!?
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Jun 1, 2021 10:17
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hypercule
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Jun 1, 2021 10:47
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Lightningproof, it's not ok to have sex with your students. maybe he's gunning for a mod position
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Jun 1, 2021 10:51
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hey i actually agree. for too long has my “the spartacist uprising failed because rosa’s relationships with leo jogiches and kostya zetkin depleted it of orgone energy” theory been left out in the cold On The Left
Lightningproof has issued a correction as of 11:06 on Jun 1, 2021 |
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Jun 1, 2021 11:02
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do the iain m banks thing and genetically mod everybody to have drug glands in their brain. once everybody can produce their own Adderall at will, communism will be built in a week
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Jun 1, 2021 11:18
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would marx have linked anti-social drug use/alcoholism/religion to man's obscured/alienated Gattungswesen in capitalism? conversely, would the Gattungswesen in communism have any (pathological) need for ideological or actual opiates?
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Jun 1, 2021 11:53
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gradenko_2000 posted:having finished Parenti's book on Julius Caesar (which I reiterate is excellent) last week, I've now started on Ernest Mandel's "Formation of the Economic Thought of Karl Marx" Thanks for this!
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Jun 1, 2021 12:37
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What's a good book about the cultural revolution?
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Jun 1, 2021 14:40
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 “alternative to what?”
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Jun 1, 2021 14:44
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gradenko_2000 posted:having finished Parenti's book on Julius Caesar (which I reiterate is excellent) last week I just started reading it this weekend and agreed it's fantastic. Also been on big Parenti lecture binge and those are equally great. The world really lost a great voice when they decided to blacklist him. 
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Jun 1, 2021 14:47
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Dr Michael Parenti Dr Jill Biden Noam Chumpsky
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Jun 1, 2021 14:54
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I think you're confusing some terms here; classism and class are not the same thing. A rich person or a rich person who doesn't like poor people (usually as a proxy for their own racism) are classist because it's about maintaining a social hierarchy. New Yorker old money dislike the Trumps for example and never saw them as one of them, that's classism because status needs to be hoarded and its dilution means your position is at risk. Note that there's a lot of broad similarities with the core motivations of white supremacy, whereas they too, in a similar vein, see whiteness as something that can only be lost. However just like any culture, as they interact with other cultures things change. The values of the wealthy change as a result of interaction with a wider array of people. Whether it be through the internet making the world a smaller and those who can freely act within it more cosmopolitan in nature, more places around the globe developing and achieving the same living standard of the first world and increasing exposure and interaction gradually chips away at this form of classism. The number of millionaires around the world, especially China, has exploded. The diversity among the wealthy has massively increased which as we've seen in the more urban and densely populated and diverse US cities tends to instill and propagate progressive values. However class in terms of the marxist definition is not classism. Class has no inherent need to instill and propagate racism for its own power and wealth; it can easily maintain its interests through not being racist, it provides them no benefit; as we've seen with the welcoming of the aforementioned Chinese nouveaux riche and the heads of Japanese conglomerates before them. Eliminating the capitalist class is not going to eliminate racism; racism has existed for pretty much all of human history and predates capitalism; and there is a fundamental contradiction between buying the support of the white working class to support socialist policies and fighting racism, you cannot do both as constructing your policies to support affirmative action and redistributive policies to rebuild black wealth closes off support to those whites; and in turn appealing to the white working class alienates liberal allies you need to form a governing coalition with and drives a wedge between you and poc who quite understandably, don't want to wait for white people to stop being racist before seeing the benefits of socialism. So when someone says, that because some policy is (essentially/tantamount to claiming) not socialist enough ergo it best case isn't helping "solve racism" and worst case "helping to perpetuate it" (i.e "neutering critical race theory" as Ghost Leviathan claimed); well, that's bollucks. It's a contradiction without resolution; similar to when an anarchist dismisses what happens if the local commune is super racist who is going to make them (the majority) behave? I think it suffices to point out how despite multiple claims now of "class and racism are closely interrelated" not once is it actually explained why democratic socialist or otherwise left-leaning countries with substantial social safety nets and implemented socialist policies are still racist, or any explanation as to how this is supposed to be resolved other than the "question mark" step in the Southpark Underpants gnomes scheme as to how exactly is does someone actually let go of their hatred through improving economic conditions when it isn't a rational state of mind to begin with? If rational arguments have never succeeded in convincing a conservative or a trumpist that they're wrong; how is a logical or rational argument about the merits of socialism supposed to change their mind? It's ill conceived and doomed. And as we've seen, plenty of people in markedly improved socio-economic conditions are still bigoted; sometimes it takes a different form (the afforementioned classism which works as proxy) but it's still there, particularly among people who belong to the recently growing professional managerial class that developed; many of whom grew up from poor or working class backgrounds but who succeeded in climbing up the socio-economic ladder through higher education. And as we saw in Russia, the vastly improved material conditions for millions of peasants who benefited from affirmative action programs that gave them preferential treatment for slots in the leading educational and scientific institutions of all of the USSR still turned around and thumbed their nose at Caucasians and central asian people. In short, I think it doesn't follow to suggest that having money over people is a means of having power over someone and the solution is to then to give more people with prejudice money.
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Jun 1, 2021 15:07
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The Voice of Labor posted:
Yeah just ask notable lsd users bill gates and Steve jobs how much it did to increase their empathy. poo poo I don't even have a problem with hallucinogens, but they don't radically alter a person's behavior anymore than affordable therapy would. In reality the only people not concerned about illicit drug use are the ones well off enough to not have said drugs destroy their community. ie: hippie dilettantes
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Jun 1, 2021 15:22
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fart simpson posted:racism has existed for pretty much all of human history and predates capitalism; I think you might be conflating racism with more generalized prejudice. Race as we understand it is a relatively novel concept that came about due to European colonization. Before skin color became a big deal, religious and ethnic affiliation were way more important factors in determining prejudice. The Romans didn't hate the Teutons for being pale redheads, they hated them because they weren't Romans.
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Jun 1, 2021 15:40
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Dreddout posted:I think you might be conflating racism with more generalized prejudice. I read that its actually sometimes rather difficult to know the 'race' of significant romans, just because the romans were so uninterested in people's color or 'lineage' beyond just like, idle curiosity that it wasn't something they'd bother writing down. which of course leads to modern racist shitheads to claim all the romans must have been white e: another fun problem was the romans liked to write about barbarians as a means to talk poo poo about how lovely 'modern' romans were. Like they'd go, "Oh those Germans, they're so Vigorous and Free-Spirited, unlike these DECEDENT, GREEK SPEAKING KIDS THESE DAYS" and then the german nationalists took that all incredibly literally Tiler Kiwi has issued a correction as of 15:54 on Jun 1, 2021 |
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Jun 1, 2021 15:49
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it’s a bit of a mixture, and compounded additionally by nationalism. ive gotten specific hatred for not being french for example, whereas those specific people were fine with everyone who is culturally french no matter the skin colour this does not mean that there are no racist french people of course
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Jun 1, 2021 15:52
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yeah, as i understand it, racism is relatively new in the historical sense and was very much tied into the most successful colonial powers being "white"
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Jun 1, 2021 16:06
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tokin opposition posted:Sectarianism is stupid, neither anarchists nor marxists nor whoever else in that term have the kind of numbers and physical means for any of our differences to actually matter. there's actually huge numbers of organized communists across the world, many of which are in power in their countries. anarchist numbers are vanishingly small from a global perspective though
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Jun 1, 2021 16:16
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the funniest thing about european racism to me is how everyone in europ is pink so fash have to find some real specific rear end niche like ~the aryan race~, and that never works anyway because oops! turns out a shitton of slav population is blont and/or blue eyed too, but we'll exterminate them anyway because they speak incorrectly lmao israel fixing their error by going back to the good old days and just doing genocide based on what book is read in public gatherings sure is progress tho
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Jun 1, 2021 16:29
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Truga posted:the funniest thing about european racism to me is how everyone in europ is pink have you been to Europe?
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Jun 1, 2021 16:33
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yeah i live here, it's a joke op
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Jun 1, 2021 16:35
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whiteness in america is insanely arbitrary anyways, its always arbitrary
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Jun 1, 2021 16:35
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Truga posted:yeah i live here, it's a joke op there’s some good variation. I’m sorry about your eyes.
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Jun 1, 2021 16:39
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and yet, most people from lisbon to volga consider themselves white
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Jun 1, 2021 16:47
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The Voice of Labor posted:food not bombs is allowed to exist because no one wants to eat beans. riot ribs is immediately cointelpro'ed because if you're giving out ribs and hamburgers and other desirable food stuffs, that represents a threat. is this domestic gladio https://twitter.com/ChicagoCAPS24/status/1396504420142223361?s=20
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Jun 1, 2021 17:17
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Btw, prohibition in the Soviet Union only lasted until 1925 which was 3 years after the end of the Civil War. Also, most of the population at that point just drank moonshine anyway (Samogon) and Vodka itself was for urbanites. Otherwise, later there would be some attempt at controlling excessive drinking occasionally but usually it was available including during Brezhnev's time. I don't get where the idea came from that the Soviet elite was hoarding it for themselves besides maybe some restrictions on sale hours or minimum pricing that generally happen in most other countries. I notice even on this forum there is constant "free association" with Soviet history. Also, functionally, I don't actually think a completely libertarian take on drugs/alcoholic is very useful and use usually communicates much deeper issues of society. Prohibition/criminalization usually has significant issues but actually having some restrictions/taxes on use is probably not a bad thing. For example, think there should be higher minimum pricing on Marijuana in Oregon. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 17:42 on Jun 1, 2021 |
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Jun 1, 2021 17:39
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AnimeIsTrash posted:I just started reading it this weekend and agreed it's fantastic. Also been on big Parenti lecture binge and those are equally great. The world really lost a great voice when they decided to blacklist him. The biggest takeaway from parenti lectures is that microphones are all CIA ops.
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Jun 1, 2021 17:57
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crepeface posted:yeah, as i understand it, racism is relatively new in the historical sense and was very much tied into the most successful colonial powers being "white" yeah racism is actually extremely important to capitalism's growth and maintenance, but on the other hand capitalism has flattening tendencies that tend to iron out all non-class distinctions like race and gender and so on, and this contradiction is playing out around us constantly
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Jun 1, 2021 18:07
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animist posted:do the iain m banks thing and genetically mod everybody to have drug glands in their brain. once everybody can produce their own Adderall at will, communism will be built in a week Once we have produced communist people, people will produce communism. Bing bong so simple!
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Jun 1, 2021 18:25
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mila kunis posted:there's actually huge numbers of organized communists across the world, many of which are in power in their countries. I'm sure the empires tremble at your polycule's might comrade
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Jun 1, 2021 18:29
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idk how much more effective draconian anti drug laws would be than something along Portugal’s model in a socialist state, even when it comes to stuff like heroin or meth. I don’t think that criminalizing use and punishing users is a good idea in any case (esp when contrasted with state funded rehab and outpatient care). go ham on producers though idgaf
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Jun 1, 2021 18:56
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tokin opposition posted:I'm sure the empires tremble at your polycule's might comrade what?
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Jun 1, 2021 19:21
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mila kunis posted:what? It's always fun when a poster reregs and posts just as bad as they used to.
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Jun 1, 2021 19:27
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I wish to obtain pleasure
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Jun 1, 2021 19:29
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Stairmaster posted:I wish to obtain pleasure 
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Jun 1, 2021 19:33
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but my smokes are in that desk, he's got one
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Jun 1, 2021 19:42
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Moving past the moralism around drug use that I imagine most of us carry to a small degree at least I think a lot of the attitude depends on how much you think we can change society and how quickly. The utopian concept is 'we'll all be happy with how things generally are so will not need to resort to the mind altering substances which come with hangovers/serious physiological harm and be more resistant to addiction forming due to less social pressures etc so let it all flow and we'll manage ourselves properly', basically the Culture. However unless that's done instanteously then what do you do during the transition, where only socialism exists at various levels? Then it's more of an issue of creating a society actively building communism rather than building adequate salves for the current imperfections - if you can't get high to escape your problems then the only solution available to you is to work to fix them (assuming you're really an empowered worker). So there's a general issue for a liberatory project acknowledging that something conceptualised as a salve to terrible material conditions is essential to the people in the project or something that delays the creation of that utopia is just allowed to happen. Or you take a less utopian attitude and realise that even in quite free situations people will make really awful decisions if given enough bad options and so understand that actually realised freedom isn't a lack of structure and rules but a society with rules aimed to free you. This can be an excessively dour attitude though, it's equally valid about most cultural output and has a totalising view of society. People are not building socialism when they're on the toilet, as a crude example, but it is not socialism to abolish the toilet. So what sort of attitude can you actually take? I'd take the approach of viewing it within society rather than a thing itself - the drug itself is mostly irrelevant, only the resources dedicated to it and the impact it has need to be monitored. I've worked while drunk from lunch but I work in an office and I was still capable of working - that's not a problem. It's different if operating machinery or caring for the vulnerable in some way which requires the best attention you can muster. Are there suddenly being a large shift in manufacturing capacity being shifted to these drugs? That sounds like a signal that something significant has changed in the social environment which might need directed intervention to fix, better check it out.
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Jun 1, 2021 19:45
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| # ? May 23, 2024 14:02 |
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despite what I said earlier I think cigarettes/cigars/pipes should be illegal to use except around other expressly consenting adults in buildings licensed for tobacco usage (including in your house if you have children, no smoking at all in a vehicle) and you have to keep your Consent To Second Hand Smoke Card on you at all times or face a fine.
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Jun 1, 2021 19:46
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