(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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indigi posted:why do you think he had all those strokes? don't buy the NORML propaganda I thought it was the lead poisoning from the bullets
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Jun 2, 2021 06:29
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i say swears online posted:what's the weed like in manila anyway difficult to acquire since Duterte
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Jun 2, 2021 06:30
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Ardennes posted:It pretty much shutdown every small time dealers and started seriously eating into available retail space until point there are shops on every other block. (Some have to be laundering money) i think there's some unexamined stuff going on with the whole "yes, i come up with my ideas for public policy from anecdotes and bellyfeels" and "i am extremely interested in using the state to micromanage the use of traditional drug war targets as a proxy for deciding what is best in life for imaginary others."
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Jun 2, 2021 07:35
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we used to time machine to ask aristotle if weed is conductive to the good life. we're still working on the translation because he answered after hitting a massive blunt and was coughing a lot.
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Jun 2, 2021 07:37
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Hodgepodge posted:i think there's some unexamined stuff going on with the whole "yes, i come up with my ideas for public policy from anecdotes and bellyfeels" and "i am extremely interested in using the state to micromanage the use of traditional drug war targets as a proxy for deciding what is best in life for imaginary others." Honestly, it sounds like you're afraid of the nanny state (shrug). It has never been difficult to actually find weed in Oregon, the question is if they should be a unregulated but authorized for-profit market. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 07:58 on Jun 2, 2021 |
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Jun 2, 2021 07:55
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The first thing you learn in philosophy 101 is how to take a hit without coughing and the second thing is trivia about the Matrix. From there we go into basic logic and the difference between concentrates
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Jun 2, 2021 07:56
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tokin opposition posted:The first thing you learn in philosophy 101 is how to take a hit without coughing and the second thing is trivia about the Matrix. From there we go into basic logic and the difference between concentrates That or buy a vape pen and sit at home.
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Jun 2, 2021 07:59
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Ardennes posted:Honestly, it sounds like you're afraid of the nanny state (shrug). It has never been difficult to actually find weed in Oregon, the question is if they should be a unregulated but authorized for-profit market. you can get it on the black market is not exactly an ace planning strategy on any level. sans capitalism (which exists to capture markets of this type for the upper class), if weed is legal than its the people who are currently the black market who supply it. If weed is not legal, those people are hoostile targets you have chosen for the state apparatus.
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Jun 2, 2021 08:03
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The Voice of Labor posted:the fix is to move you and others like you to productive labor which gives everyone a 10-20 hr work and more time to imbibe on their extended weekends while removing your privilege to drink on the clock Fair enough, 'don't you threaten me with a different kind of good time' and all that. I didn't say my work was unimportant or non productive though, just that there's no danger in doing it in a slightly altered mental state.
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Jun 2, 2021 08:06
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Hodgepodge posted:you can get it on the black market is not exactly an ace planning strategy on any level. sans capitalism (which exists to capture markets of this type for the upper class), if weed is legal than its the people who are currently the black market who supply it. If weed is not legal, those people are hoostile targets you have chosen for the state apparatus. I would say decriminalization solves that issue since the state doesn't really care either way at that point. The question really is if you have a for-profit market or not. A socialist state could have a non-profit market for weed but it would likely have some type of restrictions.
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Jun 2, 2021 08:25
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Ardennes posted:I would say decriminalization solves that issue since the state doesn't really care either way at that point. The question really is if you have a for-profit market or not. A socialist state could have a non-profit market for weed but it would likely have some type of restrictions. market design is probably a better way to approach the issue, for sure. i know little about the subject, but it seems like once you're willing to look at what sort of organizations are allowed to enter into the market and in what terms is seems like you'd have a much more powerful and relevant set of tools than "too much drug bad." like, the whole relationship between the customer and the provider can look very different in any number of ways once the whole dynamic isn't subsumed under the profit motive.
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Jun 2, 2021 08:34
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Hodgepodge posted:market design is probably a better way to approach the issue, for sure. i know little about the subject, but it seems like once you're willing to look at what sort of organizations are allowed to enter into the market and in what terms is seems like you'd have a much more powerful and relevant set of tools than "too much drug bad." like, the whole relationship between the customer and the provider can look very different in any number of ways once the whole dynamic isn't subsumed under the profit motive. In the case of Oregon, they kind of just allowed a "wild-west" experience. To be clear, I actually don't really care about weed specifically one way or another but I think it does get down to a more philosophical question of if a future socialist state should be purely libertarian or not? Would the Soviet Union have been better if a bottle of vodka as cheap as a potato? Should there be cops? Taxes? etc
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Jun 2, 2021 08:43
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Ardennes posted:In the case of Oregon, they kind of just allowed a "wild-west" experience. To be clear, I actually don't really care about weed specifically one way or another but I think it does get down to a more philosophical question of if a future socialist state should be purely libertarian or not? Oregon has always been a libertarian hellstate no? No cheap vodka isn't going to improve any situation except how shiny your spoons are. No we shouldn't have cops. ACAB. No we shouldn't have taxes, abolish money. Decriminalisation is the only path forward for drug policy. Lotta weird moralising going on in this thread. Grow up and light a spliff nerds.
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Jun 2, 2021 10:41
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:States have also been rescheduling codeine syrup in the last 8 years to make it harder to get, which coincides with the rise of synthetic opioids. The problem presented by natural opioids doesn't go away when you deschedule it. So when they cracked down on codeine people started using a much worse drug and dying at over twice the rate
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Jun 2, 2021 13:45
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Hatebag posted:So when they cracked down on codeine people started using a much worse drug and dying at over twice the rate Fentanyl was already a prescription opioid, it's not strictly speaking illegal. What makes fentanyl dangerous is how it's used to cut other drugs to make them feel more potent, and how that kind of unregulated black market activity can trigger overdoses in unaware users. This is a profit maximizing measure, and it would still happen even if all of those drugs had been legalized because black markets persist to undercut official ones. A decriminalization policy would still be targeting the production & distribution of all of those drugs which get cut with fent. All of your assumptions are based on a liberal framework that doesn't necessarily apply to a socialist society, whose primary interest is to eliminate profit seeking.
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Jun 2, 2021 16:48
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I. the case of fentanyl tainted opioids I do think there’s something to be said for state sponsored harm reduction measures like providing “clean” heroin to addicts (whether in combination with rehab or not). it’s just irresponsible to force people who are going to use anyway to gamble with their lives on the purity of what they can buy on the street
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Jun 2, 2021 16:52
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indigi posted:I. the case of fentanyl tainted opioids I do think there’s something to be said for state sponsored harm reduction measures like providing “clean” heroin to addicts (whether in combination with rehab or not). it’s just irresponsible to force people who are going to use anyway to gamble with their lives on the purity of what they can buy on the street There's also a major difference between providing heroin to existing addicts and allowing heroin to continue being produced & sold. Giving addicts free or cheap-as-free heroin completely undercuts any potential market for it.
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Jun 2, 2021 16:54
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Fentanyl was already a prescription opioid, it's not strictly speaking illegal. What makes fentanyl dangerous is how it's used to cut other drugs to make them feel more potent, and how that kind of unregulated black market activity can trigger overdoses in unaware users. This is a profit maximizing measure, and it would still happen even if all of those drugs had been legalized because black markets persist to undercut official ones. A decriminalization policy would still be targeting the production & distribution of all of those drugs which get cut with fent. All of your assumptions are based on a liberal framework that doesn't necessarily apply to a socialist society, whose primary interest is to eliminate profit seeking. Fentanyl is dangerous because it's so potent a little extra can kill you, so people guess their dose wrong and die. There's a lot of people out there unknowingly shooting heroin with fentanyl in it, but there's also a lot of people just using straight fentanyl, and people from both groups are dying in droves. A lot of fentanyl used recreationally in the us is smuggled from china or produced with precursors smuggled from china. Using fentanyl without a prescription is illegal and most fentanyl use is not prescription-based. Black markets would still exist under legalization, but they would be much smaller. Just observe any place with legalized recreational weed. Very few people are buying from dealers because dealers are, without exception, the worst people. There's no reason to imagine people would be more likely to buy drugs from a black market instead of a state-run pharmacy compared to how they behave in a capitalist society, and the drugs purchased from that pharmacy could be tested and have purchase limits, or whatever other policies make sense.
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Jun 2, 2021 17:24
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indigi posted:I. the case of fentanyl tainted opioids I do think there’s something to be said for state sponsored harm reduction measures like providing “clean” heroin to addicts (whether in combination with rehab or not). it’s just irresponsible to force people who are going to use anyway to gamble with their lives on the purity of what they can buy on the street As I understand it, it's also been shown time and again every time it's been studied that providing people with regulated maintenance doses of heroin is pretty much the only effective way to help treat people for heroin addiction. On the subject as a whole, I think it's long since been established that the only people who benefit from prohibition/the war on drugs/etc are the (capitalist) state and organized crime. I think we're a little too quick to dismiss how thoroughly drugs (legal or otherwise) can make an individual bad situation worse, but until we have the will as a society to actually address and mitigate the reasons for those bad situations (through Marxist revolution or otherwise) it's really not going to matter what else we do. If we somehow completely eliminated meth/cocaine/opiates/weed/alcohol suffering people would turn to some other form of self-medication. A functional socialist or communist society would certainly go a long way toward accomplishing this. (I don't think it would be enough, but a good start? Yeah.)
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Jun 2, 2021 17:29
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Hatebag posted:Just observe any place with legalized recreational weed. Very few people are buying from dealers because dealers are, without exception, the worst people. I don't think you know many dealers. Especially guys who are just selling weed.
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Jun 2, 2021 17:31
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I don't think you know many dealers. Especially guys who are just selling weed. Not anymore, no. But I've known a few dozen and they were all pieces of poo poo
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Jun 2, 2021 17:35
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My experience of weed dealers is that at worst they are just kind of annoying. They're generally the kind of people whose whole identity is weed culture. Buddy, I just want to get stupid on Friday and Saturday nights. I don't want to be your loving friend
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Jun 2, 2021 17:38
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Southpaugh posted:Decriminalisation is the only path forward for drug policy. Lotta weird moralising going on in this thread. Grow up and light a spliff nerds. best way to mobilize the working class is to find people drinking alcohol and tell them uh actually, your drinking is part and parcel of a libertarian mindset and counterrevolutionary
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Jun 2, 2021 17:39
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Interesting how all the sicko dopefiends itt have to make poo poo up so everybody who doesn't agree with their unreconstructed liberalism sounds unreasonable. 
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Jun 2, 2021 17:47
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Interesting how all the sicko dopefiends itt have to make poo poo up so everybody who doesn't agree with their unreconstructed liberalism sounds unreasonable. Oh, so it's everybody else making you sound unreasonable. That makes sense. This is as coherent as anything else you've said in this conversation
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Jun 2, 2021 20:04
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I had to say some dumb poo poo because of all the liberals!!
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Jun 2, 2021 20:05
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agree with them or not i understand why organizations aspiring to be vanguard parties have strict rules about drugs/alcohol within the org tbf because they are presumably going to bear the cross of the revolution, but having any kind of policy for the masses along those lines is essentially liberal paternalism. i'm all about destroying the distribution networks for drugs and putting the state in charge for the sake of regulation/limiting personal consumption though as long as it's done sensibly
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Jun 2, 2021 20:12
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legalisation + regulation seems to be the best way of handling vice stuff
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Jun 2, 2021 20:58
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there definitely shouldn’t be a market. it should be a state owned cartel run by the national medical association
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Jun 2, 2021 21:02
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Yossarian-22 posted:agree with them or not i understand why organizations aspiring to be vanguard parties have strict rules about drugs/alcohol within the org tbf because they are presumably going to bear the cross of the revolution, but having any kind of policy for the masses along those lines is essentially liberal paternalism. i'm all about destroying the distribution networks for drugs and putting the state in charge for the sake of regulation/limiting personal consumption though as long as it's done sensibly So who are you disagreeing with?
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Jun 2, 2021 22:02
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Basically I'm all for the state getting involved in vices and shutting down gangsterism as long as they aren't eliminationist about the vice part. I think labelling vices as such and making them a high priority target is incredibly counterproductive and basically begs for a fierce reaction
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Jun 2, 2021 22:20
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PFLP victory parade in Gaza today https://twitter.com/IbnRiad/status/1400158676506324998?s=20 https://twitter.com/Mahyar3138/status/1400156583686979589?s=20
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Jun 2, 2021 22:40
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Atrocious Joe posted:PFLP victory parade in Gaza today 
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Jun 2, 2021 22:44
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Atrocious Joe posted:PFLP victory parade in Gaza today i don't see any pride flags, im cancelling e'm
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Jun 2, 2021 23:57
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Hodgepodge posted:i think there's some unexamined stuff going on with the whole "yes, i come up with my ideas for public policy from anecdotes and bellyfeels" and "i am extremely interested in using the state to micromanage the use of traditional drug war targets as a proxy for deciding what is best in life for imaginary others." tbf, oregon just passed an onerous tax on tobacco and a minimum price for alcohol that almost doubles the price of bottom shelf liquor (while leaving the cost of anything that passes through my bourgeoisie hippy dilettante lips unchanged) . hating the poor, but in an especially patronizing way is kinda the prevalent attitude. like, the mindset that thinks someone on the margins starving because all the substances that give them a brief reprise from their misery, subsequently also necessary for their survival, have doubled in price is some sort of moral good is real perverse, but it's also real common. libs gonna lib
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Jun 3, 2021 00:23
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do cigarettes actually provide the user anything beyond satisfying a craving after the first like 3 cigarettes? those are the one thing I’m fine with making wholly illegal but jacking up the price is simply cruel
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Jun 3, 2021 00:26
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indigi posted:do cigarettes actually provide the user anything beyond satisfying a craving after the first like 3 cigarettes? those are the one thing I’m fine with making wholly illegal but jacking up the price is simply cruel incrementally satisfies the death drive. and it's cool
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Jun 3, 2021 00:31
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it is cool tbf. never really got the “death drive” thing though
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Jun 3, 2021 00:37
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a cigarette is the perfect way to kill 5-10 minutes
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Jun 3, 2021 00:46
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so is Instagram though. the cigarette is outdated tech. its only remaining use case is getting that cute person away from the table/party/bar for a few minutes
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Jun 3, 2021 00:48
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