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Isn't she like 15 or 16 when Griffith swoops in with his cape, supernaturally flowing hair, and godly ability to always stand in front of a spotlight?
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Jun 5, 2021 06:15
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If all I knew of Griffith was everything that Charlotte saw, as a teenager, I'd be smitten with him too. She's pretty naive, but I don't see any reason to consider her stupid. It's been a bit since I've read through though so if someone could refresh my memory I'd appreciate it.
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Jun 5, 2021 07:50
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lezard_valeth posted:God I loving hate Charlotte. She is the stupidest character by a long mile and I couldn't see her becoming any smarter. Like I get it she was spoiled and sheltered, but come the gently caress on I liked her bishonen embroideries of Griffith
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Jun 5, 2021 09:41
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Andrigaar posted:Isn't she like 15 or 16 when Griffith swoops in with his cape, supernaturally flowing hair, and godly ability to always stand in front of a spotlight?
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Jun 5, 2021 13:52
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No, they do mention that she's 16 when they do the duty and 17 after his torture, at least in the Dark Horse translation.
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Jun 5, 2021 13:55
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temple posted:There's no age for her and Griffith states that's a few years past marrying age, implying the king wanted her for himself. "A few years passed marrying age" in the medieval era is anywhere between 14 and 18.
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Jun 5, 2021 14:04
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Southpaugh posted:"A few years passed marrying age" in the medieval era is anywhere between 14 and 18.
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Jun 5, 2021 16:00
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The point I was making when I brought up her age is that she'd be a naive teenager, as well as royalty. High odds she'd be really annoying.
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Jun 5, 2021 16:33
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Andrigaar posted:Isn't she like 15 or 16 when Griffith swoops in with his cape, supernaturally flowing hair, and godly ability to always stand in front of a spotlight? Never not gonna point out that this is one of the most damning pieces of evidence that Griffith really is pathetic and all of his pretensions are just that. After Guts bruised his ego he could have gone for anyone, but status aside he deliberately chose to seduce the most naive target in his sphere.
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Jun 5, 2021 17:31
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He was kinda already seducing her to be next in line for the throne, so it would have probably been a bad look if he had just hosed some other woman.
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Jun 5, 2021 17:48
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Yeah, powerful men never philander. This is true.
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Jun 5, 2021 17:57
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I've reconsidered that particular scene as Griffith views sex as power. Initially he's used by the pederast who has the upper hand and later with Charlotte and Casca to display his own power. Nobody has a healthy relationship with sex except maybe Luca. Says a lot about Miura.
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Jun 5, 2021 18:04
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Viridiant posted:If all I knew of Griffith was everything that Charlotte saw, as a teenager, I'd be smitten with him too. She's pretty naive, but I don't see any reason to consider her stupid. It's been a bit since I've read through though so if someone could refresh my memory I'd appreciate it. She is young and royalty yes, but she just never grows or learns, unlike Theresa who by comparison was a lot more sheltered. She's undergone at least 3 to 4 different traumas at this stage and she still believes everything at face value, and is very little proactive waiting for someone who was a tattered corpse last she saw to save her kingdom from the Kushan while her people suffer. She could have averted at least 2 major conflicts if she was a little bit smarter. When the King threw Griffith into the torture dungeon she could have done a lot more to help him, specially after finding that her father was a creeper, she had all the leverage. She could have threatened to starve or kill herself if he didn't release Griffith, or he could have attempted to expose her father's attempted rape to some of the other nobles. With the Ganishka she could have tried to give in to his demands or negotiate in order to spare her people, though it probably wouldn't have worked given the monster Ganishka was, but she had no knowledge of this to not even try. And then when Griffith returned she wasn't the slightest bit suspicious that he might be an imposter considering she saw how disfigured and maimed he was. Without Charlotte's support Griffith can't have her ideal tea party kingdom. lezard_valeth fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jun 5, 2021 |
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Jun 5, 2021 18:20
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lezard_valeth posted:When the King threw Griffith into the torture dungeon she could have done a lot more to help him, specially after finding that her father was a creeper, she had all the leverage. She could have threatened to starve or kill herself if he didn't release Griffith, or he could have attempted to expose her father's attempted rape to some of the other nobles. Yeah, kid molested by powerful parent should have obviously seen it as a bargaining chip. She had all the leverage compared to the guy with a full court of supporters who would obviously turn against the guy who gives them power... She's the victim of sexual abuse and just had the guy she had fallen in love with snatched away and his men slaughtered. Not exactly events that build ones confidence, especially to use suicide threats or blackmail to get her way. And the "she should have just surrendered or negotiated with Ganishka" is equally confusing though at least not blaming a victim of abuse for not confronting her abuser. We know for a start it wouldn't have worked and none of her advisors are going to make the case that they should give up their power (which they essentially get through her). The only vaguely reasonable thing is not being more questioning of Griffith but his return also includes a bunch of clearly buck wild magical poo poo popping off. It's pretty reasonable to think your hot BF has miraculously recovered when the trip to meet him involved a giant fuzzy lion dude with batwings taking her for a flight on her bed. It's fine to find her weak and kind of useless because she pretty much is but it's strange to act like it's her fault when she's been raised in relative isolation and to believe heavily in the power of her father and his divine right to rule and thus a sacred duty to defend her kingdom.
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Jun 5, 2021 19:08
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From Charlotte's POV, Griffith: Caught her when she fell at the price of being humiliated by the Duke Calmed her horse Took a poisoned arrow for her Had moonlight chats Won the 100 year war Rose of the dead after drinking poison So, flying on a bed would be unbelievable but not out of realm of possibility. People kind of forget that Griffith is the people's dream manifest. While a lot of Berserk characters are suspicious of him (as the reoccurring 2 nobles state), why worry about it?
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Jun 5, 2021 19:24
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lezard_valeth posted:She is young and royalty yes, but she just never grows or learns, unlike Theresa who by comparison was a lot more sheltered. She's undergone at least 3 to 4 different traumas at this stage and she still believes everything at face value, and is very little proactive waiting for someone who was a tattered corpse last she saw to save her kingdom from the Kushan while her people suffer. She could have averted at least 2 major conflicts if she was a little bit smarter. this is the gooniest poo poo i've ever read
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Jun 5, 2021 19:46
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Hell, I was impressed that Charlotte did as much as she did to help them rescue Griffith, that took some serious balls.
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Jun 5, 2021 20:22
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She also clearly has very little self confidence and social standing, given how she was railroaded by the council of Falconia. She genuinely wants the best for her people but cannot articulate her thoughts on the matter sufficiently and does not have the will to stand up for it.
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Jun 5, 2021 21:08
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Just finished the beginning through to the end of Guardians of Desire. I think Guts is crying tears in the last scene because Theresia's soul became so consumed with hatred and vengeance, that she'll be condemned in the end to be in hell like Vargus, the Count, and her Mother. Before Guts intervention, she was an innocent who would have probably have gone to Heaven. Or maybe he was remembering his own loss of innocence.
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Jun 6, 2021 02:23
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Cheese Thief posted:Just finished the beginning through to the end of Guardians of Desire. That's seriously my favorite panel of berserk (or up there at least). You think guts is just this piece of poo poo who doesn't care and then you see he does. It has so much depth in a single panel. I've gone back to it many times. I don't think it's complicated. Guts ruined this little girls life. He killed her dad, ruined her memories of her mom, and wrecked her castle. The entire series is basically the inner war of guts between his kind sensitive side and his badass persona. edit: also rereading it again (end of golden age spoilers) Guts has now become Theresia's Griffith. He took what was most important from her and ruined her life and now she will dedicate her life to killing him. goddamn miuras such an amazing writer. Mirello fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Jun 6, 2021 |
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Jun 6, 2021 04:34
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It's the perfect note to end that initial story on. Credit especially for how, it's not that single tear, clench-fist "manly crying" you see. Dude looks like he's barely able to keep himself from collapsing into a sobbing wreck. When doing a Berserk re-read, I like to do the Black Swordsman/Guardians of Desire part in it's chronological spot, even though the opening scene is wildly nonsensical there. Anyway, in my current read, I've finally encountered the most important character: What a turn this tale takes.
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Jun 7, 2021 07:56
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Charlotte acting literally any different than how she actually does pretty much wouldn't make sense. e: Incidentally, the actually CW aspect of it aside, I love the twist with the king. Because in the leadup to it, you're shown the rest of the court, his ministers, the queen, his brother, all being variously corrupt, or against the Hawks for being commoners, or whatever, and through it all he's just shown as a somewhat doddering but reasonable monarch but why would he actually be, if that's everyone that's around him? Of COURSE he was the craziest one the entire time. Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jun 8, 2021 |
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Jun 8, 2021 15:55
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Yeah, the take that Charlotte is "stupid" is a pretty weird one to me. She seems to act exactly how you'd expect a sheltered princess to act, and also never really gets a chance to actually make any decisions
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Jun 8, 2021 17:43
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I finished a reread last weekend and I've been wondering if Sonia was going to wind up killing Charlotte on her wedding day. As a start of "things going to poo poo in Falconia." I mean the Pope guy kept bringing up officiating her and Griffith's wedding like something important would happen there. And then there's Sonia's crush on Griffith is bordering on obsession at points. EDIT: and it would fit because Griffith totally has the ego to legalize polygamy or have a couple mistresses on the side and Sonia is definitely too caught up in his cult of personality to see this. David D. Davidson fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jun 8, 2021 |
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Jun 8, 2021 18:28
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I don't know what the plan for Sonia was but the entire tone of her and Mule just kind of doesn't suggest to me that she's going to snap and kill Charlotte, If only because that would be going full bore against Griffith's will. I do think her position as a medium and the fact that she's friends with Scheirke would have eventually been important to bringing it all down, just not in that way.
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Jun 8, 2021 18:46
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My other theory for Sonia was that Griffith would ask her to Gurnbled and/or Zodd and some war demons to Elfheim and would have a "my god what have I done" moment when they begin acking the place.
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Jun 8, 2021 19:11
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I'm not sure how it would go down, but I consider Sonia to be the single biggest threat to everything that Griffith has, at this point in the story.
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Jun 8, 2021 20:12
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Sonia's primary way of making fun of people was to compare them to ducks, she called her clueless escort the Duck Knight and when telling him a story about how Charlotte thinks Griffith loves her but really he's just marrying out obligation she does it by introducing her as a duck princess. Yet despite her using this analogy over and over to belittle others, when she goes into battle she herself has a helmet prominently shaped like a duck bill. It's a bit on the nose, but I always took this as foreshadowing that Sonia herself is really the one who is clueless and in far over her head, and that eventually that revelation was going to come crashing down on her.
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Jun 8, 2021 22:17
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I’ve begun the Millennium arc. Even after everything it feels like the art just got kicked up a notch again. And all these fights one after another are so well done. This giant fella with the flame throwing shield looks so sick. And I’m loving the development of Zodd. The Guts vs Zodd fight was...that Pacha meme.
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Jun 9, 2021 01:46
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Viridiant posted:I'm not sure how it would go down, but I consider Sonia to be the single biggest threat to everything that Griffith has, at this point in the story. Sonia is the biggest threat to loving everything. She's a child with the keys to a nuclear suitcase, and doesn't seem to realize it's a nuclear suitcase.
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Jun 9, 2021 02:02
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Charlotte is a great character in a really low-key way. She can make a scene if she wants to, strong-arm into things if she's really feeling it (like infiltrating the prison with Casca's crew) but is otherwise just prone to shutting herself out and focusing on whatever it is that makes her happy -- which for a large portion of the timeline was never leaving her room and just making embroideries of Griffith, as if he were her social media art OC. It's a kind of awkward introvert behavior that makes her very relatable. It's also, in true Berserk form, a highly sympathetic trauma response. You also get the impression that over that time, she's put herself in a frame of mind that, inadvertently, prepares her for the weirdness that ensues when Griffith reappears. The emotional catch is that she figured things could only get worse (going from shutting out her molester dad to being courted by open cartoon evil overlord Ganishka) when somehow it instead gets better. Bet Zodd felt very awkward being obligated to participate in swashbuckling romance antics.
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Jun 9, 2021 02:32
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Zodd gives me mad Henry Rollins vibes in that you can tell he never thought he'd end up where he is, but he's determined to make the best of it.
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Jun 9, 2021 02:44
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The big question with Charlotte is, I think...when it's revealed exactly what Griffith is, does she double down or turn against him? And I don't mean she finds out he's a demon god, Falconia people are already used to demons, I mean she finds out what he's done and that he's willing to do it again.
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Jun 9, 2021 03:30
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Mazed posted:Bet Zodd felt very awkward being obligated to participate in swashbuckling romance antics. I mean, Zodd has the most perfect "contemplating how my life got to this point" thousand yard stare while doing it, so: 
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Jun 9, 2021 04:39
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"This is me. This is my life now." Viridiant posted:The big question with Charlotte is, I think...when it's revealed exactly what Griffith is, does she double down or turn against him? People are good at compartmentalizing. She might've been the character in the single best position to start the, "did his act of immense evil justify the good he'd go on to do later?" debate in-universe. At least, unless/until he signaled a big mega-eclipse rug pull. Although I'm increasingly convinced that's not what was gonna happen, just because people in the story know about Apostles now, the audience has seen it happen twice, and it'd really just be kind of trite.
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Jun 9, 2021 05:03
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I have to say-- having reached the point where Guts got the berserker armor and they're on their way to Vritannis: Why doesn't the Skull Knight just join their party? He seems to show up for drat near any scene where anything happens, often to help out. You'd think they'd finally be like, "hey, you want some breakfast too?"
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Jun 9, 2021 05:42
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Mazed posted:I have to say-- having reached the point where Guts got the berserker armor and they're on their way to Vritannis: Why doesn't the Skull Knight just join their party? With how much he keeps warning Guts about going down the same path as him, he might think that joining up would be the same thing as dragging Guts down that path himself.
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Jun 9, 2021 05:47
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Also dang what do you think that the Skull Knight doesn't do anything behind the scenes dogg has his own job to do
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Jun 9, 2021 05:53
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What we don't see is skull knight delivering cryptic warnings to six other motley adventuring parties off screen The man is franchising
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Jun 9, 2021 06:19
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If Charlotte could be made aware of everything Griffith had done after his rescue from the tower I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's the rape of Casca that would pit her against him. She's got that kind of naïve devotion (not to mention royal upbringing) that could sweep all the casualties under the rug as being for the "greater good," but his revenge rape could be the shattering point for her.
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Jun 9, 2021 08:00
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