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I think the idea is that, outside of threads that have specifically been designated as chat/media threads, one is generally expected to put effort into their posts in D&D. Sharing an article or a tweet? Great, tell us who the author is and why their opinion matters and should be listened to. Disagree with someone? Meet effort with effort. Etcetera. These standards aren't new. They have already been established. I've been away from this thread for a while and been trying to catch up, and the last page seems to be mostly tweet dumps and snarky hot takes, along with a healthy dose of mod sass. So I don't think there's anything wrong with moving the thread to CSPAM if y'all want posts to be in those shapes and forms — after all, we can continue posting in it there, right? Anyway, I find myself agreeing with some of the pessimistic views expressed earlier: it really doesn't look like much of anything will happen to Cuomo despite numerous credible allegations. But perhaps if he falls from grace due to other reasons... https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1402040050246815749 quote:Federal prosecutors have subpoenaed material related to New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s recent memoir as part of their probe into Covid-19 deaths in the state’s nursing homes, people familiar with the matter said. The rest of the article is paywalled but if his dumb book ends up being the beginning of his downfall it will be even better.
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Jun 9, 2021 06:33
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The actual expectation is "meet effort with effort" though. Not "meet literally any disagreement with effort" and definitely not "all effort all the time." There was a time when all effort all the time WAS the rule in D&D and it loving sucked and was changed for good reason. (Also posting sardonically is not shitposting.)
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Jun 9, 2021 06:43
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Lib and let die posted:We do tend to believe women in cspam. Only white women though. All refugee Uighur women reporting rape and sterilization in concentration camps? Lying CIA agents and regime change operatives
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Jun 9, 2021 06:50
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Somaen posted:Only white women though. All refugee Uighur women reporting rape and sterilization in concentration camps? Lying CIA agents and regime change operatives Link? Source?
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Jun 9, 2021 07:26
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Willa Rogers posted:Link? Source? Link to CSPAM posts denying the Uighur genocide or refugee accounts?
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Jun 9, 2021 07:32
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This thread has been mostly fine for 30 pages, and now we have people making very incendiary first posts in this thread following an announcement of considering thread closure.
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Jun 9, 2021 07:34
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Somaen posted:Link to CSPAM posts denying the Uighur genocide or refugee accounts? I don't think that's allowed? Their weird stalking threads are a one way street.
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Jun 9, 2021 07:34
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socialsecurity posted:I don't think that's allowed? Their weird stalking threads are a one way street. Yeah I would very much prefer if this place did not turn into... that place.
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Jun 9, 2021 07:39
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socialsecurity posted:I don't think that's allowed? Their weird stalking threads are a one way street. Yeah, exactly, though I am ready to unleash my carefully kept and updated database of awful posts on the creepy admin-approved genocide denier subforum (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 9, 2021 07:40
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I don't think it was mentioned itt, but Stringer, a nyc mayoral candidate, compared the allegations against him to Tara Reade, saying they were all spurious. Politicians are treating it as fait accompli that Tara Reade was a liar and specifically invoking her to defend themselves. https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1402262222689255429 Tara Reade trended recently because of Dovere's book insinuating the allegations were politically motivated to help the bernie sanders campaign, with the ensuing repeated social media smears. Tara Reade specifically keeps coming back over and over again as a topic and how it relates to situations like cuomo, and effectively banning it from D&D is going to look terrible for the forums overall.
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Jun 9, 2021 07:53
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I think it was better when Democrats just tried to pretend Tara Reade never existed, but this was the inevitable result, the chilling effect of doing a total reversal on sexual assault accusations when it was inconvenient to acknowledge them. Every scumbag who puts a D next to their name has a new weapon.
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Jun 9, 2021 08:06
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Somaen posted:Only white women though. All refugee Uighur women reporting rape and sterilization in concentration camps? Lying CIA agents and regime change operatives Why in earth would you post that in this thread? Or anywhere, really, but especially here? What the gently caress is wrong with you?
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Jun 9, 2021 08:10
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Applying what you say an entire forum, with hundreds of posters, "thinks" to posters in this thread about an entirely different topic is a bad argument, its stupid and it shows a serious ignorance of the issues. Just because someone has posted in another political forum, doesn't mean they aren't contributing in this one, and it certainly doesn't mean everyone who has posted in those forums are automatically representative of what they believe. This topic horrifies me because of the assaults, the violations. But its made worse because of the people who ostensibly declare themselves on the side of victims, but then when they think it affects their team politically, turn to opinions that might as well be cynical disinformation. I'm not pointing out anyone. I'm just saying that that is part of the topic because there are individuals who are democrat politicians, or who merely support the democratic party, that don't seem to care as much about sexual harassment and assault when it is coming from their team. Also, gently caress Andrew Cuomo.
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Jun 9, 2021 08:31
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Reiterating:Herstory Begins Now posted:Please resist the urge to shitpost in this thread^ Moreover, this is 1000% not the thread to litigate whatever stupid cross forum grudges you currently are nursing. Either post about the topic earnestly or go post somewhere else. reignonyourparade posted:The actual expectation is "meet effort with effort" though. Not "meet literally any disagreement with effort" and definitely not "all effort all the time." There was a time when all effort all the time WAS the rule in D&D and it loving sucked and was changed for good reason. This thread in particular absolutely has an expectation that people must try to post better than they normally would because the issue is so personal to most people. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Jun 9, 2021 |
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Jun 9, 2021 09:59
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GreyjoyBastard posted:really getting the impression that this thread's culture and/or posting standards might be better suited to cspam So will Tara Reade discussion be unilaterally banned from D&D then?
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Jun 9, 2021 13:42
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Nucleic Acids posted:So will Tara Reade discussion be unilaterally banned from D&D then? No. But as Herstory explained in the post above yours, this thread has an expectation that wasn't being met in the last couple of pages, and people can either meet those expectations while posting in here or cease posting ITT. That's it.
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Jun 9, 2021 14:06
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does GreyjoyBastard still think that most "Readechat's" primary purpose is about owning forums enemies? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 9, 2021 14:21
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1402040050246815749 NYer here: the local news completely shifted to the book deal about a week or so ago, and now that Cuomo put a reachable percentile goal (70% statewide, iirc we're at ~68%) on vaccinations in order to pull the remaining restrictions it's even dropped the pretense of giving a poo poo about the book deal. I honestly don't know how we come back from this. There's always more, and it's always worse, and the two major parties have taken the stance of "Just wait until the next one" in perpetuity.
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Jun 9, 2021 14:57
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Moreover, this is 1000% not the thread to litigate whatever stupid cross forum grudges you currently are nursing. Either post about the topic earnestly or go post somewhere else. GreyjoyBastard posted:really getting the impression that this thread's culture and/or posting standards might be better suited to cspam (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 9, 2021 15:35
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I was given a sixer for shitposting because I wasn't "meeting effort with effort" but what I want to point out is how Democrat/liberal defense of their rapists is built on "being reasonable" and pedantry about legal and bureaucratic processes -- not the Democrats-as-a-political-party but self-identified Democrats. The party just uses whatever means is at hand to defend their rapists to ensure they remain in the positions they want to be in and/or within the good graces of their donor base. The liberal, or more specifically, Democrat voter, uses the empty dogshit rhetoric about "proper procedure" and "you don't want the democrats to turn into t-t-t-TRUMP, do you?" because their ideological position (and self-image) is compromised if they become willing to admit the "good guy" they voted for and his administration is protecting the bad guy they hate from any consequences whatsoever from his rape of a woman. This is important and germane to the thread because it should illustrate how the defense of sexual predators is something done by the structures of power, not one of the mickey mouse political teams that we want to tag as "good guys" and "bad guys", and it's important to understand that because it should orient everything we, at any level, can or should do to try and fix things. You can't just vote for the blue team. There's no better side. Until people recognize that the folks handing you your BELIEVE WOMEN yard signs are happily defending powerful rapists on both sides of the aisle literally nothing can happen to make anything better. This is, in my opinion, even more important on a personal level because it influences how we, the dumbasses posting here, propagate rape culture even though we think we're being woke allies or #resistance fighters or whatever the gently caress. I mean check this out: Herstory Begins Now posted:Please resist the urge to shitpost in this thread^ Joe Biden, himself a rapist, is in charge of an administration that is protecting Donald Trump, a rapist, from being punished for a rape he committed. That's it! There's no nuance here; that's what's happening, and it is very bad. If being the president means anything, Biden shoulders at least a portion of the responsibility for this. But, see, it's not actually Joe Biden's fault! It's all very unfair to president I'm astounded that people around here don't seem to recognize the exact same Trumpworld rhetoric that was floating around in 2016-2017 (whoaa a friggin million years ago XD XD XD everything happens so much!!!!), before the administration and their pundits recognized that Trump voters only cared about the slop and didn't need the big brain reason and logic poo poo: this isn't his fault, he's being unfairly portrayed, he's actually trying to do the right thing! It's not his fault, Obama set this in motion before he left office and his guys are trying to stop Trump from doing what's right! This didn't actually happen, this is a smear campaign by people who are feeding off the news' outrage cycle! etc. etc. etc. It defends rapists in a national-political sense and also propagates rape culture in a personal, individual sense to let any aspect of this slide because of circumstances/bureaucracy/The Process/whatever the gently caress. It's bad. gently caress Joe Biden for being a rapist. gently caress Donald Trump for being a rapist. gently caress Joe Biden again for defending and protecting Donald Trump. "Oh actually the Biden administration hates that the DOJ is doing that and it makes them very sad". Are you kidding me? How have you gotten this far without immediately recognizing the emptiest of empty gestures from a politician. gently caress off. Please note how I haven't actually made any new points that weren't clear in my "shitposting", but if "good posting" is synonymous with "word count" there you go I guess
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Jun 9, 2021 16:53
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GreyjoyBastard posted:really getting the impression that this thread's culture and/or posting standards might be better suited to cspam Please don't do this. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 9, 2021 17:04
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As was pointed out in USNews:brugroffil posted:I'm sure he's not doing this on his own but with direction from the top (garland). He came into the DOJ in January. Biden can go "this does not reflect our values at all!" But as far as I'm aware, he has control over the current employment of everyone in the chain of command opting to go through with "the president can call his victims crazy fraud whores because hes speaking for the state". He can shoot and cry, but hes still shooting!
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Jun 9, 2021 17:05
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GreyjoyBastard posted:really getting the impression that this thread's culture and/or posting standards might be better suited to cspam This is a containment thread you created because you didn't want people to discuss Joe Biden's rapes elsewhere. If you don't want Joe Biden's rapes discussed in D&D maybe gas the thread or say something explicit about how you don't want Joe Biden's rapes discussed, instead of taking random potshots at a different forum you don't like? Weird sarcastic veiled threats aren't a constructive way to engage so I'm not sure what you're doing, GJB. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 9, 2021 17:23
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Please resist the urge to shitpost in this thread^ This is completely meaningless since it's Biden's DOJ, led by an AG that Biden selected, doing things on behalf of the White House - the office that Biden occupies. The actions of the DOJ are an extension of the actions of the president. They're doing a gross, bad thing here and unless Biden/the WH actually addresses the problem by also taking action, coming out and saying "we disagree with what the DOJ is doing here" alone is an entirely empty gesture. It means literally nothing and does not shift the blame from the Biden administration. Pentecoastal Elites posted:This is important and germane to the thread because it should illustrate how the defense of sexual predators is something done by the structures of power, not one of the mickey mouse political teams that we want to tag as "good guys" and "bad guys", and it's important to understand that because it should orient everything we, at any level, can or should do to try and fix things. You can't just vote for the blue team. There's no better side. Until people recognize that the folks handing you your BELIEVE WOMEN yard signs are happily defending powerful rapists on both sides of the aisle literally nothing can happen to make anything better. 
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Jun 9, 2021 17:47
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:I was given a sixer for shitposting because I wasn't "meeting effort with effort" but what I want to point out is how Democrat/liberal defense of their rapists is built on "being reasonable" and pedantry about legal and bureaucratic processes -- not the Democrats-as-a-political-party but self-identified Democrats. The party just uses whatever means is at hand to defend their rapists to ensure they remain in the positions they want to be in and/or within the good graces of their donor base. The liberal, or more specifically, Democrat voter, uses the empty dogshit rhetoric about "proper procedure" and "you don't want the democrats to turn into t-t-t-TRUMP, do you?" because their ideological position (and self-image) is compromised if they become willing to admit the "good guy" they voted for and his administration is protecting the bad guy they hate from any consequences whatsoever from his rape of a woman. I'm gonna quote myself from several months ago. You can click through for context but here's the bit relevant to what you posted: Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Speaking more broadly, these situations are rarely black and white. It is not "support rape culture vs. don't support rape culture." The vast majority of the time, people have to operate in murky gray areas, with imperfect information and conflicting priorities, and have to make the choice that they think is the most optimal one, either for themselves or their communities or both. Demanding that they instead put their foot town and make major sacrifices by picking a side and radically changing their behaviors based on that decision will only make you frustrated, because they won't do it. And labeling them "such-and-such apologist" and vehemently arguing that their behaviors are contributing to such-and-such culture will only make it harder for you to win them over — and you absolutely do need to win them over if you want to actually make actual progress. So the issue isn't that people continue supporting Biden despite thinking that he's a rapist — some may be like that but probably not most. Rather, the issue is that there are varying degrees of certainty, and the information they have may not be sufficient to surpass the threshold that leads to behavior change. Constantly screaming "BELIEVE WOMEN!" at them and telling them that the people they vote for are rape monsters is unlikely to help; in fact it will probably have the opposite effect. That's important to keep in mind if your goal is to make progress on this issue! Aside from all that, I'm also wondering how you think allowing low effort posts and snarky hot takes in this thread will actually be productive. Do you actually think that when someone posts a tweet that says "haha, tara reade is trending, which means libs are doing rape apologia again" it does anything whatsoever other than make those "libs" roll their eyes? Do you understand that when you post things like "You can't just vote for the blue team... there's no better side... until people recognize that the folks handing you your BELIEVE WOMEN yard signs are happily defending powerful rapists on both sides of the aisle literally nothing can happen to make anything better" you simply lose your audience? Since when has "OPEN YOUR EYES!!!" been a convincing argument? Like, this is such a basic thing: everyone has a political identity, and if you want to convince them on an issue then directly attacking that identity by telling them their side is just as bad as the other(s) is going to do the very opposite; they will simply dig in more. You understand that, right? So why the hell do you do it constantly, and then get angry when the opposite happens? As it has been said countless times, if you want to debate various aspects of rape culture, or discuss related events and developments, do it! Nobody is stopping you. Proof of that is this 30+ page thread! But it seems there's a contingent of forum superstars who can only barely hold back their urge to be inflammatory because they loving love riling up the "libs" on this subject (or any other), and they all come out of the woodwork whenever there's a dispute. As someone who has a very personal interest in this topic and has been watching/reading this thread from the sidelines it's a very obvious and annoying trend, and it is what made me stop following it the last time.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:01
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ram dass in hell posted:This is a containment thread you created because you didn't want people to discuss Joe Biden's rapes elsewhere. I"m sorry, "rapes" plural? There was a single accusation, and a complete and utter lack of any other people following up with their own accusations. It's really quite striking when compared to other politicians who have been accused of similar. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 9, 2021 18:14
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There were multiple accusations of sexual harrassment that were also brushed aside by the media.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:20
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How are u posted:I"m sorry, "rapes" plural? There was a single accusation, and a complete and utter lack of any other people following up with their own accusations. It's really quite striking when compared to other politicians who have been accused of similar. ??? It's pretty much exactly like the Kavanaugh accusation. Also Joe Biden has a well-documented history of touching women inappropriately (on camera, even).
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Jun 9, 2021 18:23
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Nucleic Acids posted:There were multiple accusations of sexual harrassment that were also brushed aside by the media. Do you have citations?
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Jun 9, 2021 18:24
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How are u posted:I"m sorry, "rapes" plural? There was a single accusation, and a complete and utter lack of any other people following up with their own accusations. It's really quite striking when compared to other politicians who have been accused of similar. Ugh I can physically feel the slime coming off of this post What a good boy our biden is for only having done a single rape. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 9, 2021 18:28
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only having done one reported* rape means he's objectively the good guy here and not at all like that awful evil trump who did tons of rapes who... uh... who he's defending... for some reason... even though he hates doing it oooh that trump is just so bad! * please disregard that Tara Reade has been dragged through the mud, sent death threats, etc. for the last few years by every Democrat and Democrat voter. That's not relevant at all and doesn't suggest anything. Everyone knows that there's lots of times where a rapist only rapes once, pretty late in life, having never ever even thought about doing any rapes before. hell yeah tone argument let's fuckin gooooooooo!!! Once again we're smack dab in the middle of palette-swapped 2016-17 Trump voter rhetoric: "you're being intentionally inflammatory", "attacking my side is only making you look bad", "I'm the one you have to convince, actually, and you're not helping your case", "if you keep carrying on like this I'm simply not going to pay attention to your crazy screaming", "calling people an X is only going to make them ignore you... or X even harder!". Anyway let me lay it out for you so I hit the good post word count threshold: Posting Isn't Praxis. No one posting on Something Awful, or Twitter, or anywhere, should ever be under the impression that their posts are doing something like convincing the "other side" of a point. That doesn't happen. Sometimes, in aggregate, enough strong arguments in a particular direction may change someone's (even fundamental) positions on something in conjunction with lived experience, class status, etc. In this sense only the content of the argument matters because that's all that's ever going to be evaluated, distantly, as an afterthought. "I read a post SO GOOD it made me a communist" has never been true in the same way "Everyone was mean to me on the online and it made me become a nazi" has never been true. I'm at least cognizant of my posting here enough to recognize that I cannot and will not convince you or anyone who is fired up enough to respond to me about how my ideas are bad and I'm a mean toxic bully, but I am posting here to refocus and interrogate my own positions and (hopefully) come out with better and stronger stances and formulations of those stances. I'm writing and arguing, ultimately, for myself -- as we all are -- in the hopes that it will make me stronger where it matters: offline, where I actually do have opportunities to convince people. It should come as no surprise that my offline conversations about this stuff are vastly different from my online conversations because of the nature of those conversations and the relationships involved, and the fact that it does not behoove me even one single bit to be gentle and kind so the people who want to make excuses for rapists, even if they don't believe that's what they're doing. No one, on any side here, should ever operate under the delusion that we're trying to convince other posters. We're here to make our arguments, and if my being sardonic or direct makes you uncomfortable that seems like a you problem, not a me problem, and might be a very strong hint that you should honestly and objectively interrogate your own positions on this stuff Pentecoastal Elites fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jun 9, 2021 |
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Jun 9, 2021 18:29
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How are u posted:Do you have citations? I hate you. I physically hate you and your smug little posting gimmick. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 9, 2021 18:29
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How are u posted:I"m sorry, "rapes" plural? There was a single accusation, and a complete and utter lack of any other people following up with their own accusations. It's really quite striking when compared to other politicians who have been accused of similar. One accusation of sexual assault, but it’s important not to conflate that with the false claim that Biden faces only one accusation of sexual harassment or impropriety. The existence of at least seven women who do in fact make that accusation is well documented. This is utterly not like your average American politician - and instead restricting the category to “American politicians that have also been accused of the same” is distasteful, to put it mildly. e: good grief, asking for citations like that. for goodness' sake, Biden being a handsy creep was well-known enough to be the target of Daily Show jokes in 2015. Also note that the fact this youtube video is from the Daily Caller's channel does not change the fact that those broadcasts actually, factually happened - it's just that, you know, no one who butters their bread on the Democratic side wants to acknowledge it. World War Mammories fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jun 9, 2021 |
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Jun 9, 2021 18:32
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World War Mammories posted:One accusation of sexual assault, but it’s important not to conflate that with the false claim that Biden faces only one accusation of sexual harassment or impropriety. The existence of at least seven women who do in fact make that accusation is well documented. This is utterly not like your average American politician - and instead restricting the category to “American politicians that have also been accused of the same” is distasteful, to put it mildly. I'm no criminal psychologist so let me say this with complete confidence: this definitely seems like the history of a man who has never raped anyone, or well maybe only one rape, as a mistake, then really regretted it, but doesn't really remember it now anymore sorry but we're all definitely sure he's never done anything like that before or after.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:37
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People who defame Biden's accusers are not doing so out of malice. I wish it were that simple. Defenders of Joe Biden are making resigned non-choices that they were lead into through moral and patriotic appeal. They're motivated by the desire to feel less responsible for bad things happening and to assign blame for them. They're like children who feel responsible for their parent's breakup. It's painful for people to understand their insignificance, mortality and the transience of the things they love. Those who refuse to accept the mortality of the things they use to justify and sublime their death are currently going insane because everything is dying and all promises are broken.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:46
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How are u posted:I"m sorry, "rapes" plural? There was a single accusation, and a complete and utter lack of any other people following up with their own accusations. It's really quite striking when compared to other politicians who have been accused of similar. For gently caress’s sake. raise your standards. This post and the mindset it evinces are unacceptable.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:50
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:hell yeah tone argument let's fuckin gooooooooo!!! Maybe Debate & Discussion isn't the correct subforum for you? It sounds like you care more about being a smug rear end in a top hat than constructively contributing to either debating or discussing. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 9, 2021 18:58
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How are u posted:I"m sorry, "rapes" plural? There was a single accusation, and a complete and utter lack of any other people following up with their own accusations. It's really quite striking when compared to other politicians who have been accused of similar. Also this is just a really bizarre criterion for believably. Tara Reade would have more credibility if other women had come forward after her? In this case, she's the one coming forward after other women had already spoken about Biden's inappropriate behavior.
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Jun 9, 2021 19:01
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Kalit posted:Maybe Debate & Discussion isn't the correct subforum for you? It sounds like you care more about being a smug rear end in a top hat than constructively contributing to either debating or discussing. I disagree. I feel like I'm making strong arguments and defending them well. It's called "Debate & Discussion" not "Debate & Discussion but make sure to be very nice and call everyone good good boys and give everyone big hugs". I don't actually give a poo poo if you think I'm abrasive because AFAIK it's not against the rules and this is an important subject I feel very strongly about.
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Jun 9, 2021 19:03
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:I disagree. I feel like I'm making strong arguments and defending them well. It's called "Debate & Discussion" not "Debate & Discussion but make sure to be very nice and call everyone good good boys and give everyone big hugs". I don't actually give a poo poo if you think I'm abrasive because AFAIK it's not against the rules and this is an important subject I feel very strongly about. Adding on to this sentiment: the purpose of debate is not always to convince your opponent to agree with you. Between the two opposing viewpoints there can be a whole spectrum of positions in the audience (other thread participants and readers). A debate can still successfully explore or refine ideas without needing to "convert" the other side.
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Jun 9, 2021 19:08
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