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8one6 posted:Related to replicator chat: 
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Jun 13, 2021 14:49
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HopperUK posted:I noticed the Cardassian teenager Rugal who was being raised by a Bajoran family wore the earring too, which suggests they're raising him as a full Bajoran, despite the rumours of abuse by that one suspiciously-convenient bystander. Mind you, do we ever see any Bajorans without the earring once it was established? Maybe it started as religious and now it's a cultural thing. IIRC the Bajoran earrings aren't strictly religious. They're used to identify which family and probably which caste the wearer comes from.
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Jun 13, 2021 15:40
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Epicurius posted:I kind of agree with Takei there. Retconning Sulu as gat because Takei is gay seems to be on its face a tribute, but it also fits into the stereotype that gay actors can't play straight characters. Also, i don't think he threw a shitfit. He said he was unhappy with the decision, and if Star Trek wanted to honor him and recognize gay people, they should create an original gay character, which they've finally done in Discovery. The difference here is that John Cho’s Sulu is not the same person as George Takei’s Sulu. Just like how Spock and Uhura were in a relationship when they weren’t before. Or how the history Kirk’s Starfleet career changed. Clearly Nimoy didn’t mind the changes to Spock and he accepted it as a different version of his character. Takei’s complaints came off as disingenuous, especially given how you’d think he’d be happy with a lead character being allowed to be gay since in the 60s it would have never happened. Maybe it’s sour grapes that this Sulu can be gay when his never could. Then again these days when I see Takei or his husband online, it’s usually promoting T-shirts on Amazon, lovely clickbait articles stolen from r/amitheasshole or ‘political’ articles which can be summed up as ‘Biden can do no wrong!’ or ‘Look a dumb Republican getting humiliated by a Democrat!’ A damned shame, since before he got Team Takei to handle his social media, it was a lot more interesting to follow him!
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Jun 13, 2021 15:53
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Mister Kingdom posted:DON'T YOU SEE?!? “Some kind of…” was actually pretty obvious on its face but I wasn’t expecting that many of those. Also “don’t you understand” is a spiritual addition I think.
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Jun 13, 2021 15:58
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Zaroff posted:The difference here is that John Cho’s Sulu is not the same person as George Takei’s Sulu. Just like how Spock and Uhura were in a relationship when they weren’t before. Or how the history Kirk’s Starfleet career changed. Wait so the Kelvin blowing up made Sulu gay? That's a hell of a butterfly effect.
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Jun 13, 2021 16:45
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Eighties ZomCom posted:IIRC the Bajoran earrings aren't strictly religious. They're used to identify which family and probably which caste the wearer comes from. Ah thanks and to everyone else. I was sure I was missing something. Spock and Uhura totally should have been going out before. There's occasional chemistry there.
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Jun 13, 2021 16:54
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HopperUK posted:Ah thanks and to everyone else. I was sure I was missing something. They're co-workers, and he's her superior officer. Let's not.
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Jun 13, 2021 17:10
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No intrapersonal allowed conflict in Trek, therefore a relationship between crew and commanding officers is actually totally fine since they dodge all of the obvious intrapersonal conflicts that would arise from such a situation 
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Jun 13, 2021 17:24
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Mandatory relationship counseling. Troi leans forward, drunk and leering. "Ssso tell me allll about your SEX LIFE hahaha oh you're uncomfortable 😘"
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Jun 13, 2021 17:31
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HopperUK posted:Ah thanks and to everyone else. I was sure I was missing something. Spock’s work girlfriend is Chapel. Him and Uhura are just buds
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Jun 13, 2021 17:44
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I didn't realize DS9's writing team had a tic. Voyager had a ton!
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Jun 13, 2021 18:17
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Wait so the Kelvin blowing up made Sulu gay? That's a hell of a butterfly effect. Sounds like sexuality IS a choice
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Jun 13, 2021 19:44
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Lemniscate Blue posted:They're co-workers, and he's her superior officer. Let's not. Hard disagree. Let them gently caress. That goes for everyone in the future.
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Jun 13, 2021 20:07
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Marx Headroom posted:Hard disagree. Let them gently caress. That goes for everyone in the future. :Rikersay: Anyway, I just watched the Union episode of DS9. Holy poo poo it's not subtle in any way. I don't know how they were allowed to air it back then, but it sure as hell wouldn't have flown today. Good stuff!
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Jun 13, 2021 20:53
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TV shows, and especially Trek, love to have prisoners in tiny cells with only a bench and no visible toilet or anything. Always makes me wonder what kind of hosed up holo prison/torture situations Section 31 is running in their black sites
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Jun 13, 2021 21:45
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BonHair posted::Rikersay: Babylon 5 also had a good labour rights episode that would never have been made now
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Jun 13, 2021 22:00
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Bullbar posted:TV shows, and especially Trek, love to have prisoners in tiny cells with only a bench and no visible toilet or anything. That's because the toilet extends out of the wall at the push of a button. 
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Jun 13, 2021 22:15
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I'm watching Waltz and I feel like it would be a stronger episode without us actually seeing the people Dukat is talking to
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Jun 13, 2021 22:18
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Wait so the Kelvin blowing up made Sulu gay? That's a hell of a butterfly effect.
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Jun 13, 2021 22:29
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Wait so the Kelvin blowing up made Sulu gay? That's a hell of a butterfly effect. We never saw who Sulu married in the prime timeline, we just know he had a kid, which is something gay people can still do through various means  (as evidenced by Demora also being present in the Kelvinverse).
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Jun 13, 2021 22:51
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And a hot egg.
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Jun 13, 2021 22:54
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Wait so the Kelvin blowing up made Sulu gay? That's a hell of a butterfly effect. Sorry, we need a new star trek show to have some explain this, or can we just use Michael Burnham for this too?
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Jun 13, 2021 23:31
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Bullbar posted:TV shows, and especially Trek, love to have prisoners in tiny cells with only a bench and no visible toilet or anything. they just transport the poop and stuff out of them and into space
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Jun 13, 2021 23:46
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Enterprise aliens would always throw them in like, a basement with scrap metal sorta gently covering the window
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Jun 13, 2021 23:51
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nine-gear crow posted:We never saw who Sulu married in the prime timeline, we just know he had a kid, which is something gay people can still do through various means Yeah I was gonna say I don't remember we ever had on screen confirmation of him having a wife. And even if he did...he could be bi? 
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Jun 14, 2021 00:22
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nine-gear crow posted:We never saw who Sulu married in the prime timeline, we just know he had a kid, which is something gay people can still do through various means hosed up thing to do to a partner IMO if you're talking being in the closet
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Jun 14, 2021 00:26
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If you're curious, Sulu doesn't have a lot of romantic stuff in TOS (probably for various reasons....the problems that the film and tv industry had with Asians/Asian-American men as romantic figures, and also because Takei was filming the Green Beret in the summer of 1967, which reduced the amount of time he had on the Star Trek set), but he does take two showgirls off the annoyed Spock's hands in Shore Leave, and he falls in love with one of the space hippies in The Way to Eden. In TOS, at least, Sulu is intended to be heterosexual.
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Jun 14, 2021 00:36
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So what you're saying is Sulu Fucks
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Jun 14, 2021 01:31
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Lemniscate Blue posted:They're co-workers, and he's her superior officer. Let's not. Hold up. At the time the relationship begins, they aren't assigned to the same ship. He's higher in rank, but not her superior.
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Jun 14, 2021 01:38
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A.o.D. posted:Hold up. The original assertion was about the original versions of the characters in TOS.
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Jun 14, 2021 01:51
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Lemniscate Blue posted:The original assertion was about the original versions of the characters in TOS. Got it. Although I will say TOS Spock was almost perfectly asexual. Sure, he experienced the biological urge of Pon-farr, but he never seemed to pursue a romantic relationship, and was completely uninterested in his arranged marriage except for the fact that it was his duty to complete it. Although yeah, Uhura definitely was making eyes at Spock whenever she thought she could get away with it, and a few other times as well. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Jun 14, 2021 |
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Jun 14, 2021 01:57
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A.o.D. posted:Although I will say TOS Spock was almost perfectly asexual. Sure, he experienced the biological urge of Pon-farr, but he never seemed to pursue a romantic relationship, and was completely uninterested in his arranged marriage except for the fact that it was his duty to complete it. What about the cave lady in All Our Yesterdays? That groovy chick on the trippy spores planet? The Romulan commander in The Enterprise Incident?
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Jun 14, 2021 02:07
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Kirk in the turbolift in And The Children Shall Lead?
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Jun 14, 2021 02:10
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Marx Headroom posted:What about the cave lady in All Our Yesterdays? That groovy chick on the trippy spores planet? The Romulan commander in The Enterprise Incident? 1. Really bad writing plus the script somehow made the excuse that the time travel was causing Spock's brain to regress to a more primitive state which makes absolutely no sense I any level of examination. 2. The drugs made him do it. 3. Wasn't Spock manipulating her?
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Jun 14, 2021 02:11
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A.o.D. posted:2. The drugs made him do it. Eh. I think you're mistaking Vulcan control of emotions for no emotions at all. I think he had a legitimate attraction to the Leila Kalomi and the Romulan Commander. The spores only brought out the feelings he was repressing.
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Jun 14, 2021 02:14
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Eh. I think you're mistaking Vulcan control of emotions for no emotions at all. I think he had a legitimate attraction to the Leila Kalomi and the Romulan Commander. The spores only brought out the feelings he was repressing. Oh no, I'm very aware that Vulcans are intensely emotional creatures. I love it when the authors recognize that. I don't think the spores simply removed Spock's inhibitions. In the Naked Time he got infected by that star drunkenness, and he didn't try to get his freak on. He loses control of his emotions, but he's still who he is. Under the influence of the spores, he gets romantic and blatantly refuses orders. The spores don't just remove inhibitions, they alter personalities on a dramatic scale. Part of the evidence of this is that everyone infected by the spores acts the same way, and the plants engage in a poorly explained symbiosis to affect a change in the behavior of their hosts. So yeah, Spock tries to get his freak on, but that's not really Spock making the decisions there. That's not his mind, but uninhibited. Hard disagree on The Enterprise Incident. The entire episode is a Federation Black Op from the start. Are you forgetting the "Vulcan Death Grip" Spock applies to convince the Romulans that he betrayed his captain? At least we agree that All Our Yesterdays was Bad.
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Jun 14, 2021 02:29
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Wait so the Kelvin blowing up made Sulu gay? That's a hell of a butterfly effect. I can't remember who originally posted this: "It's an alternate universe until you point out a continuity error, at which point it's a re-imagining until you point out the lack of imagination, at which point it's an alternate universe."
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Jun 14, 2021 02:35
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A.o.D. posted:I don't think the spores simply removed Spock's inhibitions. In the Naked Time he got infected by that star drunkenness, and he didn't try to get his freak on. He loses control of his emotions, but he's still who he is. Under the influence of the spores, he gets romantic and blatantly refuses orders. The spores don't just remove inhibitions, they alter personalities on a dramatic scale. Part of the evidence of this is that everyone infected by the spores acts the same way, and the plants engage in a poorly explained symbiosis to affect a change in the behavior of their hosts. So yeah, Spock tries to get his freak on, but that's not really Spock making the decisions there. That's not his mind, but uninhibited. I had never thought of it that way, but I see where you're coming from. The symbiosis is explained as giving the host "peace of mind" and "perfect health"; not specifically controlling their minds. Incidentally, as a leftist adult my take on that episode is different than when I watched it as a kid. Ten year old me agreed with Kirk's argument that man "stagnates without a challenge". Adult me thinks that Kirk is the villain of the episode, because despite the spores' influence, the colonists had created a perfect, peaceful world. He tore them away from that. quote:Hard disagree on The Enterprise Incident. The entire episode is a Federation Black Op from the start. Are you forgetting the "Vulcan Death Grip" Spock applies to convince the Romulans that he betrayed his captain? True, but it's possible he felt a spark there too. It didn't seem that TOS Spock interacted with people of his own species that much (I know Romulans are a different species, but they're an offshoot of the Vulcans).
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Jun 14, 2021 02:46
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I had never thought of it that way, but I see where you're coming from. The symbiosis is explained as giving the host "peace of mind" and "perfect health"; not specifically controlling their minds. Spock had a REALLY rough childhood. If you accept what TAS has to say on the subject, and what The Final Frontier implies, he never found acceptance among his own people as a half-Vulcan. T'Pring had no problem getting her freak on with a side piece while Spock only met her once as a child. Also, I still agree with Kirk. The happiness those plants offer isn't significantly different than the happiness of a morphine drip. There's no achievement, satisfaction, actualization, or companionship causing those feelings.
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Jun 14, 2021 02:52
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A.o.D. posted:Spock had a REALLY rough childhood. If you accept what TAS has to say on the subject, and what The Final Frontier implies, he never found acceptance among his own people as a half-Vulcan. T'Pring had no problem getting her freak on with a side piece while Spock only met her once as a child. Those feelings wouldn't come from the spores, though, but from living in peace on the colony. Sandoval told Kirk that they "had everything they need[ed]". They already had the achievement of setting up a farming colony on a planet that was arguably on the edge of habitability thanks to the berthold rays. To my ears, Kirk's arguments are similar to people who think that a living wage or a UBI mean that nobody has an "incentive to work". I don't agree because when your basic needs are met, that's an incentive to work harder and better.
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Jun 14, 2021 02:58
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