(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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V. Illych L. posted:part of the issue is also that marxists must necessarily reject a bunch of the ideological framework which holds up the presently dominant intellectual tendencies within contemporary anti-racism/queer liberation/feminism, which will be interpreted as an attack on the concept of anti-racism/queer liberation/feminism as such, which gets you into accusations of class reductionism or red-brown whatever that’s probably why the democrats (if not the entire capitalist Establishment) are gonna push this line if a Marxist workers party ever started gaining steam (or even a slight wisp) which would necessitate some kind of convoluted response that would make people’s eyes glaze over. Torpor has issued a correction as of 21:09 on Jun 16, 2021 |
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Jun 16, 2021 21:05
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You would reach more people being a crank on a street corner than trying to educate a twitter poster who listens to NED cutouts. well that’s convenient for me Torpor posted:that’s probably why the democrats (if not the entire capitalist Establishment) are gonna push this line if a Marxist workers party ever started gaining steam. which would necessitate some kind of convoluted response that would make people’s eyes glaze over. this is America, Marxists need to utilize the extremely effective tactics of lies and insults. if you can’t cut it down to an easily digestible sound byte just lie/obfuscate and call your critic ugly or jealous indigi has issued a correction as of 21:11 on Jun 16, 2021 |
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Jun 16, 2021 21:07
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You could also crank one out on the street rather than educate a twitter poster who listens to NED cutouts.
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Jun 16, 2021 21:09
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You would reach more people being a crank on a street corner than trying to educate a twitter poster who listens to NED cutouts. tbf the twitter poster I posted gives interviews to NPR and the New Yorker about her book. https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2020/08/27/906642178/one-authors-argument-in-defense-of-looting https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/vicky-osterweils-case-for-looting it's hosed up that reactionaries attacked and demonized her for her book, but it did raise her profile beyond just being a random poster.
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Jun 16, 2021 22:58
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MeatwadIsGod posted:For anyone who legitimately feels this way I'd be curious to hear their thoughts on the Black Panther Party a policy of class first and unity with any group that has the same aims while maintaining an exclusively black membership. which is exactly the only way it could have worked in america
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Jun 17, 2021 00:38
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its not complex. social justice ends where their privilege begins. there really is nothing more to it.
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Jun 17, 2021 00:45
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k, I am bi and I got flak for being red queer more often then not, but looking at online (and especially Twitter) it is insanely ridiculous how poo poo goes either way, at least from my POV as others have posted quite accurately here, identity politics have been too successfully framed within liberalism, so a lot of people understand class politics are exclusive with those, even within a self-professed socialist worldview the solution? go outside, log off. Those folks would be loving amazed at seeing how much straight dudes who are trying to get into leftist movements are willing to learn and also some of those extremely online dudes would be impressed to see the degree of commitment many minorities are willing to stand beside them in socialist solidarity I've seen a black trans woman help take care of the kids of a straight guy, this forty-something dude who worked construction his whole life, who lost his wife to cancer. He has been a committed member of our org for years and both him and wife gave lots of direct support to her, having her for meals while she got her stuff together after her move to here but stuff like that is only possible when you are dealing with people in their full sense; I can't be the only one who sees social alienation in a very Marxist sense when I see leftists castigating in tweets about what other internet leftists are doing, right?
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Jun 17, 2021 05:32
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Being online is in a sense the absolute state of alienation, where you can only suppose the true beliefs and motivations of other people because you can only interact with them as abstracted personalities.
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Jun 17, 2021 05:36
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a classless ppls revolution but only for the fellas 💪
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Jun 17, 2021 07:04
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comedyblissoption posted:a classless ppls revolution but only for the fellas 💪 I think this is what split the first internationalie?
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Jun 17, 2021 07:47
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bedpan posted:I think this is what split the first internationalie? Marx wanted his butthole split by Bakunin's massive hog but they were both bottoms and they had a messy breakup over it. It's where we get the term bottom up organizing E: for more check my tapas account
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Jun 17, 2021 08:03
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every corporation is gay now bet the class reductionists are seething
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Jun 17, 2021 08:17
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Anime Bernie Bro posted:every corporation is gay now so are the rear end reductionists
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Jun 17, 2021 08:24
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Anime Bernie Bro posted:every corporation is gay now Except for their middle east subsidiaries
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Jun 17, 2021 09:35
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Ferrinus posted:generally criticisms that marxism pays insufficient attention to issues of identity either comes from straightforward ignorance, limited experience with fringe forms of western "marxism" that are ultimately irrelevant on the world stage, or actual dishonesty indigi posted:this is America, Marxists need to utilize the extremely effective tactics of lies and insults. if you can’t cut it down to an easily digestible sound byte just lie/obfuscate and call your critic ugly or jealous  motion: no lying is required.
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Jun 17, 2021 09:49
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becoming a right wing grifter, who would have guessed
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Jun 17, 2021 20:59
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divorced from context, someone posting "I am finished with Destiny Vaush and Breadtube" would usually be a good thing
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Jun 17, 2021 21:00
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indigi posted:divorced from context, someone posting "I am finished with Destiny Vaush and Breadtube" would usually be a good thing Had me nodding along there for a second. Lol.
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Jun 17, 2021 21:07
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quote:Only one must not get the narrow-minded notion that the petty bourgeoisie, on principle, wishes to enforce an egoistic class interest. Rather, it believes that the special conditions of its emancipation are the general conditions within whose frame alone modern society can be saved and the class struggle avoided. Just as little must one imagine that the democratic representatives are indeed all shopkeepers or enthusiastic champions of shopkeepers. According to their education and their individual position they may be as far apart as heaven and earth. What makes them representatives of the petty bourgeoisie is the fact that in their minds they do not get beyond the limits which the latter do not get beyond in life, that they are consequently driven, theoretically, to the same problems and solutions to which material interest and social position drive the latter practically. This is, in general, the relationship between the political and literary representatives of a class and the class they represent. Help me understand this quote from the 18th Brumaire, especially the bolded part
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Jun 17, 2021 22:13
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Red and Black posted:Help me understand this quote from the 18th Brumaire, especially the bolded part somebody in congress fighting for what they call the interests of small businesses but having gone to Yale or Harvard thanks to their family's background adopts a mentality that they think it is the small business mentality, so they believe that small business owners have the same political interests as theirs and operate similarly to them, not understanding that the small business owner could have turned into someone quite different if they had access to the representative's resources and upbringing
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Jun 17, 2021 22:24
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in other words, a political representative under liberal democracy has very good chances to not be an actual interested party of a class interest, because they are first and foremost members of their class, and their political range of action comes from what they project on their voters through their imagination, not realizing that they are projecting their own material class interests into the electorate see also: the Democratic Party, Obama, public healthcare is impossible in the USA, no better choices are possible, etc
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Jun 17, 2021 22:31
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Thanks, that’s really helpful
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Jun 17, 2021 23:11
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yr new gurlfrand! posted:becoming a right wing grifter, who would have guessed sweet beard
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Jun 17, 2021 23:12
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Red and Black posted:Thanks, that’s really helpful you're welcome, keep'em coming
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Jun 17, 2021 23:24
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dead gay comedy forums posted:you're welcome, keep'em coming it's why the 'betrayal' of the squad was the most likely outcome, game was rigged from the start
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Jun 17, 2021 23:39
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as long as you keep my boi dick wolff safe richard
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Jun 18, 2021 08:52
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Brain Candy posted:game was rigged from the start the thing is that the legislative front should definitely be pursued, as proletarian interest can be represented to its benefit even within the restrictions of liberal democracy. Especially if the representatives are elected as consequence of a popular organization based on a grander ideological motive, like one of Marx's favorite examples, Irish republicanism so here lies an important trick to discern, which has to deal with your point: representatives should be elected from working class concerns, not because they are working class themselves. Constance Markiewicz was a countess but she was among the fiercest socialist revolutionaries and Irish patriots to ever live To compare, let's then take Peter Brennan and George Meany, some of the truest blue-collar men in the history of the United States. Having achieved political prominence for being excellent organizers in labor activism, they were fundamental collaborators to some of the worst blows dealt against the American proletariat in the extent that, thinking in terms of its political representation, kneecapped the actual ability for such, through its popular mobilization
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Jun 18, 2021 14:36
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Ferrinus posted:marx suggests paying workers in labor vouchers in critique of the gotha program, but the novelty there isn't that your vouchers reflect work done - money already does that, or at least tends to per the LTV. what makes currency compatible with socialism isn't what it measures but what it buys and the extent to which it can be transferred or pooled i was listening to a podcast where they tracked work in terms of labour hours spent on some farms in communist hungary, as long as the required outputs kept coming you could for eg., work extra hours during the first few days of the week and then you were done and could take a long weekend to go fishing or whatever. people liked it
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Jun 18, 2021 16:19
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/Mango_Press_/status/1338864433032884224?s=19 these guys were also standing in solidarity with juan guaido and couping venezuela lol
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Jun 18, 2021 16:24
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mila kunis posted:i was listening to a podcast where they tracked work in terms of labour hours spent on some farms in communist hungary, as long as the required outputs kept coming you could for eg., work extra hours during the first few days of the week and then you were done and could take a long weekend to go fishing or whatever. people liked it that sounds great. I know they’ve done studies on 5/8 vs 4/10 and 4/10 was both overwhelmingly favored and led to happier home lives
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Jun 18, 2021 18:13
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lol 10 hours, c'mon man 4/7 with the eventual goal being 3/5
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Jun 18, 2021 23:16
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yr new gurlfrand! posted:becoming a right wing grifter, who would have guessed To be fair, this is a reasonable position. I'm glad for him.
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Jun 18, 2021 23:27
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Doctor Jeep posted:lol 10 hours, c'mon man
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Jun 18, 2021 23:32
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Doctor Jeep posted:lol 10 hours, c'mon man the trick is getting everyone to realize that, as they spend at least half the day bullshitting and shirking, they could work 1/2 as many hours, get paid the same and it wouldn't reflect on productivity at all
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Jun 19, 2021 00:05
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The Voice of Labor posted:the trick is getting everyone to realize that, as they spend at least half the day bullshitting and shirking, they could work 1/2 as many hours, get paid the same and it wouldn't reflect on productivity at all the trick is that it depends on how productivity is calculated, being a ratio compared to past or planned output means that managers can feel good about 110% productivity because there’s no upper limit
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Jun 19, 2021 01:55
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larry has officially been freed
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Jun 19, 2021 03:21
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Another victory for the non mega thread CSPAM posters. May the mod team swiftly receive permanent bans in my place.
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Jun 19, 2021 03:30
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Doctor Jeep posted:lol 10 hours, c'mon man well duh I’m just saying if you have to divvy up 40 hours people would much rather have the extra day off and work longer when they’re already there. cuts down on commuting time too The Voice of Labor posted:the trick is getting everyone to realize that, as they spend at least half the day bullshitting and shirking, they could work 1/2 as many hours, get paid the same and it wouldn't reflect on productivity at all the problem with this is when it comes to jobs like shipping, food service, civil construction, stuff where the workers are actually working for the majority of their shift and have to get x done in y time. I agree they should work half as many hours and get paid the same (more actually) but it would absolutely tank productivity unless you hired twice as many people (which they should do)
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Jun 19, 2021 03:30
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welcome back Larry, what happened this time I’m not up on Mod Lore
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Jun 19, 2021 03:30
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I am glad you are back Larry
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Jun 19, 2021 03:31
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