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Lolie posted:Oh goody.  and we await yet another efficacy study...
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Jun 23, 2021 15:53
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These booster jabs we got coming in September that will be tailored to new variants are going to be green and like treacle.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:06
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:My day job is broke-rear end writer so I’m probably not the only person who assumed you were being driven to the point of insanity by the need to keep your job at a period where gaining new employment was difficult-to-impossible. 
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Jun 23, 2021 16:14
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EL BROMANCE posted:I’m probably not the only person who assumed you were being driven to the point of insanity by the need to keep your job at a period where gaining new employment was difficult-to-impossible. It's a necessity and I'm not going to shove a burden I can take off of others off on them if I can do it. I was far from insanity at any point. Again, we have constantly had psych people there checking up on people both off and on duty for this poo poo.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:17
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Charles 2 of Spain posted:Lol what on earth RWM has been driving the "masks protect you" and not "masks protect others" so individualism can be moral. Same shitheads also want to see peoples faces, tell to to smile etc etc
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Jun 23, 2021 16:22
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I did voluntary care work through the whole pandemic, - very old people who needed to self isolate but didn’t know how to do home shopping or have medicines delivered to home. I know exactly where Bunny is coming from, you find yourself working 21 hour days 7 days a week on 3 hours sleep a night and can’t quit because there is no one else to take your place. It’s all on you, and the social workers and doctors office staff who should have stepped up and done the job they were loving paid to do “worked” from home and were uncontainable. The default for a lot of elderly was to let it get bad, finally reach out for help and be told “just go online” which wasn’t chuffing helpful.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:26
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I mostly played computer games, maybe not 21 hour days but probably close a few times.
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Jun 23, 2021 16:56
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NotJustANumber99 posted:I mostly played computer games, maybe not 21 hour days but probably close a few times. what a series of contributions to the thread. Have you been stabbed goon
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Jun 23, 2021 16:59
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learnincurve posted:I did voluntary care work through the whole pandemic, - very old people who needed to self isolate but didn’t know how to do home shopping or have medicines delivered to home. Not going to lump on social workers as I work with children’s social workers and they have almost all been absolutely legendary throughout. GPs though? They can SMDFTB as they say in GiP. loving hopeless.
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Jun 23, 2021 17:17
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monkeytennis posted:Not going to lump on social workers as I work with children’s social workers and they have almost all been absolutely legendary throughout. GPs though? They can SMDFTB as they say in GiP. loving hopeless. This is adult social care, who massively dropped the ball - huge number of people who would ordinarily be picked up by them were told “we are overstretched already because of the pandemic” instead of taking up the general catch all approach the charities did. The councils tried with the boxes but they came too late, and it says something where it was Morrison’s coming in with their subscription boxes that could easily be set up for multiple people which proved the most useful over the year. learnincurve fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Jun 23, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 17:50
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learnincurve posted:This is adult social care, who massively dropped the ball - huge number of people who would ordinarily be picked up by them were told “we are overstretched already because of the pandemic” instead of taking up the general catch all approach the charities did. “Due to COVID” is a phrase that should attract a mandatory death penalty, along with “stay safe” IMO.
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Jun 23, 2021 17:52
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monkeytennis posted:“Due to COVID” is a phrase that should attract a mandatory death penalty, along with “stay safe” IMO. it was the same issue we had with the GPs, this old fella was always going to be 90 and have his hip go no matter if the pandemic happened or not, telling him “there is a pandemic on you can’t see a doctor don’t be selfish” like he’s expected to suck it up was outrageous and I have no words to describe Handcock over it.
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Jun 23, 2021 17:55
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While we're talking about vaccines, I realized that I haven't opened my own immunization booklet in forever. Turns out I'm about a decade overdue for my Td booster, and should probably consider getting a few more jabs for things that are newly recommended (HPV, shingles, etc). This was your PSA to check your immunizations history (Canada, US) and make sure you aren't going to bring back polio.
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Jun 23, 2021 18:11
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This thread has been indispensable, despite the conflicts that crop up. But now I need some direct advice from you guys. I have a close friend who wants to meet up and hang out at his place. He and his wife are fully vaccinated (as am I, closing in on week 4 after dose 2) but they have two kids, and that’s what’s giving me pause. They’ve been visiting their grandparents, but even so I can’t help but fear getting infected by their kids, even though I’m fully vaccinated. I guess I’m posting to gauge what you guys think. I’d like to see them but after a year of being so careful, it’s a big step for me to take.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:05
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Butt Savage posted:This thread has been indispensable, despite the conflicts that crop up. But now I need some direct advice from you guys. I have a close friend who wants to meet up and hang out at his place. He and his wife are fully vaccinated (as am I, closing in on week 4 after dose 2) but they have two kids, and that’s what’s giving me pause. They’ve been visiting their grandparents, but even so I can’t help but fear getting infected by their kids, even though I’m fully vaccinated. You can say you would love to hang out but you’re wanting to play it safe (vaccinated people are still susceptible to catching covid, and as a result potentially long covid disabilities) until the delta variant and other mutations are proven to be totally safe for vaccinated people (…vaccinated people have already been catching covid and long covid) Soo hanging outside is preferred
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Jun 23, 2021 20:15
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Butt Savage posted:He and his wife are fully vaccinated (as am I, closing in on week 4 after dose 2) but they have two kids, and that’s what’s giving me pause. I’m not going unmasked around kids. The risk to you isn’t that great in absolute terms, unless you have some relevant underlying health condition, but unvaccinated kids are perhaps tens times as likely to infect you as vaccinated adults. I see it as low‐hanging fruit to wear a mask around kids. I also don’t think it’s fair to the kids to potentially expose them to an infection you could be asymptomatically incubating. Kids aren’t as susceptible to the disease as you or I (again, barring certain health conditions), but so long as they are too young to make their own health decisions, we should do our best to protect them. Now that’s a delicate subject that you can’t bring up to the parents, but that doesn’t mean you can’t do your part.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:24
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Butt Savage posted:This thread has been indispensable, despite the conflicts that crop up. But now I need some direct advice from you guys. I have a close friend who wants to meet up and hang out at his place. He and his wife are fully vaccinated (as am I, closing in on week 4 after dose 2) but they have two kids, and that’s what’s giving me pause. They’ve been visiting their grandparents, but even so I can’t help but fear getting infected by their kids, even though I’m fully vaccinated. You're vaccinated. Go ahead and visit. Doomers in 3, 2,
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Jun 23, 2021 20:28
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Platystemon posted:I’m not going unmasked around kids. Got a source for this?
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Jun 23, 2021 20:29
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Jesus Christ this guy is fully vaccinated as are the parents, let’s not encourage this bullshit anti-vax nonsense ay.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:29
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JeffLeonard posted:You're vaccinated. Go ahead and visit. They beat you by two posts goonfrend
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Jun 23, 2021 20:30
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JeffLeonard posted:You're vaccinated they are vaccinated . Go ahead and visit.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:40
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Butt Savage posted:This thread has been indispensable, despite the conflicts that crop up. But now I need some direct advice from you guys. I have a close friend who wants to meet up and hang out at his place. He and his wife are fully vaccinated (as am I, closing in on week 4 after dose 2) but they have two kids, and that’s what’s giving me pause. They’ve been visiting their grandparents, but even so I can’t help but fear getting infected by their kids, even though I’m fully vaccinated. Not only will those unvaccinated kids infect you with the Epsilon strain, they'll put "kick me" signs on your back and steal your wallet.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:48
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I read the question as "our friends have kids but the kids won't be there". You need to find your own appropriate level of risk, but for me whether or not the kids would be present would be the dealbreaker. I'll meet with fully-vaccinated friends, even if they have kids, but I don't want to be around unvaccinated kids myself. Secondhand infections through a fully-vaccinated person appear to be extremely rare. It's not impossible, but we as a socity already hosed our chances of being 100% safe from COVID for the next several years, so just be as safe as is practical.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:49
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Butt Savage posted:This thread has been indispensable, despite the conflicts that crop up. But now I need some direct advice from you guys. I have a close friend who wants to meet up and hang out at his place. He and his wife are fully vaccinated (as am I, closing in on week 4 after dose 2) but they have two kids, and that’s what’s giving me pause. They’ve been visiting their grandparents, but even so I can’t help but fear getting infected by their kids, even though I’m fully vaccinated. Nothing is completely free from risk, but this is insanely low on the risk scale for you. I'd definitely make sure the kids aren't coughing or sneezing or anything, but you should do that anyway when you visit somebody with kids. I'd also ask the parents (or the kids if they're old enough) if they want you to war a mask around them. The vaccine (so far at least) seems to also prevent the bulk of asymptomatic spread, so don't feel like you're dooming these kids just by going over there.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:53
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Everyone's going to have certain levels of comfort as things slowly start opening up again. If you don't feel okay about going over, express that clearly and politely and take it from there. It's really not a big deal. I'm sure most folks will be understanding if someone isn't totally comfortable with relaxing the risk mitigation strategies right away. People deserve to feel safe, and I don't think (most) anyone really takes issue with that.
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Jun 23, 2021 20:59
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Butt Savage posted:This thread has been indispensable, despite the conflicts that crop up. But now I need some direct advice from you guys. I have a close friend who wants to meet up and hang out at his place. He and his wife are fully vaccinated (as am I, closing in on week 4 after dose 2) but they have two kids, and that’s what’s giving me pause. They’ve been visiting their grandparents, but even so I can’t help but fear getting infected by their kids, even though I’m fully vaccinated. I wouldn't risk it with kids being in the picture and Delta loving to eat babies. I wouldn't be so worried about you getting it from the kids so much as the kids maybe picking it up if you're carrying asymptomatic loads. thread: BUT THAT'S UNLIKELY- but it isn't impossible and until kids are vaccinate..able, I would personally err on the side of caution.
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Jun 23, 2021 21:02
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Butt Savage posted:This thread has been indispensable, despite the conflicts that crop up. But now I need some direct advice from you guys. I have a close friend who wants to meet up and hang out at his place. He and his wife are fully vaccinated (as am I, closing in on week 4 after dose 2) but they have two kids, and that’s what’s giving me pause. They’ve been visiting their grandparents, but even so I can’t help but fear getting infected by their kids, even though I’m fully vaccinated. Nothing is ever completely risk free, probably never coronavirus risk free either. It seems like you've taken all possible precautions, I'd go ahead.
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Jun 23, 2021 21:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Otla5157c
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Jun 23, 2021 21:23
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learnincurve posted:Jesus Christ this guy is fully vaccinated as are the parents, let’s not encourage this bullshit anti-vax nonsense ay. Butt Savage asked what I thought about the situation, and I answered. I don’t see how what I said is substantially different than “safety advances in cars are great, but consider buckling up and put kids in car seats (that are rear facing! non-expired! in the second or third row!). People even caution to secure dogs in cars, lest they become projectiles in the event of a crash. I’m not going to say that that’s bad advice, but let’s face it, it’s a more remote risk than the coronavirus. If advice that mild fills you with a sense of doom, I don’t know what to say. JeffLeonard posted:Got a source for this? So mostly it’s because the kids aren’t vaccinated and the vaccines are quote:In addition to the direct effects of preventing cases and reducing severity, we have shown that both the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 and BNT162b2 vaccines are associated with reduced likelihood of household transmission by 40-50% from individuals diagnosed with COVID-19 after vaccination, highlighting important wider benefits to close contacts. While this analysis was primarily intended to understand impacts on transmission to household contacts rather than those outside the household, the former are consistently identified as being at high risk for secondary infection. Therefore, these results could also have implications for transmissibility in other settings with similar transmission risks. https://khub.net/documents/13593956...9e-9c9b25a8122a quote:We found that vaccination appeared to reduce transmission. Among household members of vaccinated healthcare workers there was a 30% reduction in documented cases from day 14 post vaccination with similar, albeit not statistically significant, reductions in hospitalisation. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.11.21253275v1.full.pdf The above references are courtesy of the CDC’s science brief backing the controversial guidelines for fully vaccinated people. Now these numbers for transmission reduction are significantly worse than the outdated ones I had in my head. I apologize for overstating vaccine efficacy in reducing transmission. I didn’t think I’d be saying that today, but there we go. The other factor is that kids spread the virus to their contacts at least as well as adults do. quote:Given the same exposure time, children and adolescents younger than 20 years of age were more likely to infect others than were adults aged 60 years or older https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33476567/ quote:This study suggests that younger children are more likely to transmit SARS-CoV-2 infection compared to older children, and the highest odds of transmission was observed for children aged 0-3 years. Differential infectivity of pediatric age groups has implications for infection prevention controls within households, as well as schools/childcare, to minimize risk of household secondary transmission. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.29.21254565v1.full Platystemon fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jun 23, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 21:27
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Just tell them to leave the kids in the car with the window cracked open
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Jun 23, 2021 21:29
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I don't want to sound incautious, but we knew we wouldn't get a good sense of how well the vaccines prevent asymptomatic spread until we'd actually rolled it out into the population since it's a lot harder to test that than the incidence of symptomatic cases. Here in NC we have a pretty pitiful uptake rate, around 44% of the total population with at least one dose, and yet our numbers are all trending down. In the last month our seven day average of cases has dropped by two thirds and hospitalizations are down by a third, all while test positivity has gone from 4% to 2% (as low as it's ever been outside of one day in March 2020). Last year we didn't see any meaningful decrease in anything during the summer, so I have trouble believing that things are suddenly improving due to weather when people are also packing back into restaurants and businesses. I don't think people here in general have ever been sufficiently careful, but they were definitely being more careful last year than this year--almost all of our restrictions were lifted back in the middle of may. I don't see what could be pushing this kind of decrease aside from the vaccines, and to me that feels like the best evidence that they have are extremely good at stopping real world spread in addition to symptoms. We'll see how things go this fall with Delta and whatnot I guess. But for now, take a look at your local numbers and see how things are trending--even if things aren't at a comfortable point yet they may be moving in that direction. My county is just about back down to the new case rate it was when I locked down in march of 2020. It's hard not to brace myself for the other shoe to drop but things are looking up for now.
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Jun 23, 2021 21:31
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Scarodactyl posted:I don't want to sound incautious, but we knew we wouldn't get a good sense of how well the vaccines prevent asymptomatic spread until we'd actually rolled it out into the population since it's a lot harder to test that than the incidence of symptomatic cases. We're doing very well against COVID where I live. King County has 2.27 million residents and we've been under 100 cases per day continuously for the past two weeks, many days well below 100 cases. And we're still conducting 3000-4000 tests per day so it's not like we aren't testing for it, our positivity rate is below 2%. gohuskies fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jun 23, 2021 |
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Jun 23, 2021 21:41
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Take care with interpreting that study on child infectivity and exposure times. It's not saying that kids are more infectious solely because of biological reasons, the fact that they breathe on and touch everything in the home likely contributes to their increased infectivity.
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Jun 23, 2021 22:11
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Yep. We're currently at 50-60 cases per day, roughly 5000 tests done. It was very recently we surpassed 2000 cases a day. Things practically changed overnight. Vaccines work. I like this graph, because it shows how clearly the restrictions worked, but also the difference made by our huge vaccine push for the general population at the end of April.  Points 3 and 7 were effectively the same level of restriction lifting. Without vaccines it started spreading again immediately, second time around cases were dropping. I still think they're moving a bit too fast, I'd like to see them wait to see how the curve is trending, but Jason Kenney really doesn't want "cancelled Stampede 2 years in a row" on his portfolio.
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Jun 23, 2021 22:16
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Charles 2 of Spain posted:Take care with interpreting that study on child infectivity and exposure times. It's not saying that kids are more infectious solely because of biological reasons, the fact that they breathe on and touch everything in the home likely contributes to their increased infectivity. Yeah, kids love to get in your face (and each other's faces) then breathe all over. About the visiting parents with kids thing (or any activity, really), you can factor in your local case rate to guess at the odds any random person you meet will have covid and act accordingly. I'm sure we would all differ on what "act accordingly" means, but I guess that's up to each of us. When the case rate is sufficiently low the risk, even to the unvaccinated, is quite low. The trouble I have with this analysis is that delta (and now delta+) can seemingly spread so quickly in an unvaccinated population. Like, if your kid goes to the pool with other kids and one kid has delta, in a couple hours every kid at the pool could have delta. The absolute risk of this happening is quantifiable in terms of the case rate (and quite low in a lot of areas of the US right now) but if it does happen the consequences can be tragic. Anyway, I would go visit the vaccinated parents with unvaccinated kids and either stay outdoors or wear masks. The risk to you, a vaccinated person, is very low even indoors.
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Jun 23, 2021 22:23
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Yeah the risk in that situation is to the unvaccinated kids not the vaccinated adults.
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Jun 23, 2021 22:29
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I really appreciate all of the responses so far. As others have mentioned, the kids being a potential vector is what worries me. And it never occurred to me that I could infect them as well, as selfish as that is. There’s a lot to digest and think about. I’m definitely being a bit less cautious in general just for the sake of my mental health, but some things still require more thought. Something a good night’s rest could facilitate. Whatever I decide, I’ll make sure to share in case anyone needs another reference to help make a similar decision.
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Jun 23, 2021 22:51
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Another Bill posted:Yeah the risk in that situation is to the unvaccinated kids not the vaccinated adults. It's both, but one is much, much more vulnerable than the other. Butt Savage posted:I really appreciate all of the responses so far. As others have mentioned, the kids being a potential vector is what worries me. And it never occurred to me that I could infect them as well, as selfish as that is. I know people passionately disagree with me, but mental health isn't important when bodies are in the ground. Could y'all do an online watch party of a movie or some such, instead? Or maybe a fun, outdoors, masked something-or-other?
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Jun 23, 2021 22:53
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Picnic Princess posted:Yep. We're currently at 50-60 cases per day, roughly 5000 tests done. It was very recently we surpassed 2000 cases a day. Things practically changed overnight. Vaccines work. Same city as you, and VERY happy to see these numbers. My main worry is when they remove the mask mandates. THAT will be a great test of the vaccines. Add a bunch of travel restriction exempt rodeo performers/support staff from the US hitting our city the first week of July and we'll see if Delta takes off in Calgary (pun intended). Also, sorry to hear about the side effects from your second dose - hope things are getting better.
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Jun 23, 2021 22:59
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Fluffy Bunnies posted:It's both, but one is much, much more vulnerable than the other. I haven’t done anything yet involving hanging out with unvaccinated people or attending large gatherings. But now I feel like I can go for a (masked) walk without falling into a panic because an unmasked person or persons walked past me having a conversation. Same with going to a convenience store to grab some milk. I can tolerate not visiting friends for specific reasons, but the biggest toll has been not being able to go outside even for a stroll around my neighborhood.
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Jun 23, 2021 23:14
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