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I wish amuro was a larger part of zeta tbh. Should've had a plot focused around him and kamille instead of whatever the gently caress they were doing with rosamia
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Jun 25, 2021 16:25
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I think he's around about as much as he could/should be personally, since I think if he was around much more he'd start to Kira his way into the plot and overshadow Kamille. Char doesn't, because Char was the previous antagonist rather than the previous protagonist. I do think it would have been good to confirm something like the lore has run with since, that after his appearance in the anime that he got more involved with Karaba/AEUG and ended up fighting in another theatre of the war, with his own story that's just not being focused on because you know the rough outline already given who he is and what he's doing. Just knowing that he was doing more is fine on it's own, rather than what Zeta does which is just kind of have him disappear out of the plot. It's fine in Zeta, I suppose, but it becomes more apparent as a "what's Karaba/Amuro doing in all this" thing in ZZ.
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Jun 25, 2021 16:55
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I think he could've been in a few more episodes without overshadowing kamille. I think a plot where he tries to be the adult he should've had when he was the gundam pilot would've been a fun exploration of both characters while still keeping kamille as the lead. Maybe play a bit more into his bitterness at not being given a good robot despite everyone telling him he has to fight again because he's so good at it. But really loving anything would've been better than rosamia
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Jun 25, 2021 17:38
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Did amuro and emma ever have a conversation or character interaction?
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Jun 25, 2021 17:38
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Isn’t there a flashback scene sorta early in the show to Emma meeting Amuro while she was driving through North America in “an old gas powered car” before they actually meet him after Jaburo? Not quite the same, but something.
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Jun 25, 2021 19:53
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Amuro gets plenty of screen time in Zeta and the Dijeh is a drat good robot, he made out fine. Plus Kamille is a better protagonist then Amuro.
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Jun 25, 2021 20:20
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I don't want kamille to have been shinned
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Jun 25, 2021 20:28
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Instead of getting Shinn'd Kamille got swooshed
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Jun 25, 2021 20:43
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tsob posted:I think he's around about as much as he could/should be personally, since I think if he was around much more he'd start to Kira his way into the plot and overshadow Kamille. Char doesn't, because Char was the previous antagonist rather than the previous protagonist. I do think it would have been good to confirm something like the lore has run with since, that after his appearance in the anime that he got more involved with Karaba/AEUG and ended up fighting in another theatre of the war, with his own story that's just not being focused on because you know the rough outline already given who he is and what he's doing. Just knowing that he was doing more is fine on it's own, rather than what Zeta does which is just kind of have him disappear out of the plot. It's fine in Zeta, I suppose, but it becomes more apparent as a "what's Karaba/Amuro doing in all this" thing in ZZ. Yeah, in Zeta he shows up when Kamille and Quattro are in town, and has clearly explained reasons for when he doesn't get involved. In double Zeta... he's just gone, because the story really doesn't work if he's around, and you get a half-assed explanation that doesn't work well with his role in Zeta. When a big part of Amuro's role in Zeta is "He can't go to space because Lalah's ghost is up there", having ZZ's explanation be "He's in space" is just awkward.
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Jun 25, 2021 22:13
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The "what if?" of Amuro being around for ZZ is hilarious in my mind. He'd probably be freaked out at the ZZ even working as a suit, and also Judau being the main reason why.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:30
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Amuro is the only one with enough courage to weld the ZZ parts together permanently and put an end to our suffering.
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Jun 25, 2021 23:32
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Stairmaster posted:Amuro is the only one with enough courage to weld the ZZ parts together permanently and put an end to our suffering. I mean, the FAZZ is welded together. That's probably what he was doing for most of Double Zeta. Just angrily kicking in the doors to Anaheim offices, tearing open the file cabinets to get ZZ Gundam blueprints, and going over them with a pen until his eyes don't bleed. That's when Chan fell for him. chiasaur11 fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Jun 26, 2021 |
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Jun 25, 2021 23:38
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So is the suit the feddie guy pilots at the end of Hathaway a Zeta descendant? It looks like a mix between Zeta, wing gundam and Epyon.chiasaur11 posted:I mean, the FAZZ is welded together. I love that it's just like "yeah the transformies are dumb as poo poo, seal it up, and bolt every gun we got on this hunk of crap"
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Jun 25, 2021 23:48
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Well for perspective, even though it doesn't have the ZZ which is about 20 meters, here's a height chart that illustrates what's going on with the other main suit in Hathaway, the Xi. The Penelope is also about 26 meters. e: I think that there is a bit of a lineage that puts the Penelope and the XI as the generation after the Nu with Penelope being a prototype and XI as a more complete model. A lot of their operation trends from something I don't understand called Minovsky Flight Units, which is refering largely to the huge bulky parts around the gundam frame. 
Weird BIAS fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Jun 26, 2021 |
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Jun 26, 2021 05:54
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That's one big boy.
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Jun 26, 2021 06:01
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Weird BIAS posted:Well for perspective, even though it doesn't have the ZZ which is about 20 meters, here's a height chart that illustrates what's going on with the other main suit in Hathaway, the Xi. The Penelope is also about 26 meters. Remember the piece of tech the White Base uses the fly on Earth, and the big ball things on the Apsalus III's legs? Those are Minovsky Craft systems. The Minovsky Flight Unit is that, but miniaturized and made for mobile suits instead of battleships/mobile armors. At least, that's what I understand of it. edit: Penelope without the MFU (AKA Odyssius) 
Warmachine fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Jun 26, 2021 |
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Jun 26, 2021 06:03
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Yeah I just slotted them in as Float units in my head.
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Jun 26, 2021 06:06
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Yeah I guess it's just a replacement for traditional thruster based systems and those minovsky platform things that are used a lot in zeta on earth? Idea being much better flight control on earth without having to use a secondary unit.
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Jun 26, 2021 06:11
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Weird BIAS posted:Yeah I guess it's just a replacement for traditional thruster based systems and those minovsky platform things that are used a lot in zeta on earth? Idea being much better flight control on earth without having to use a secondary unit. Pretty much. The U.C. is reasonably consistent about things needing subflight units or a waverider transformation to fly in atmosphere. And while waveriders are great with straight line motion, they're basically just expensive jets.
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Jun 26, 2021 06:15
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Warmachine posted:
That is one pretty boy, just like how the GP03S Stamen is a pretty boy you barely get to see outside the mobile armor. I'm not a fan of the Xi and the Penelope having what is basically a second helmet as their chest piece. It looks a little too goofy.
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Jun 26, 2021 06:25
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UC Gundam spends about 30-35 years making mobile suits bigger to pack more and more defensive tools as beam weapons get cheaper, smaller and more powerful, then eventually reaches the point where they realise it's more efficient to just be smaller and go faster.
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Jun 26, 2021 13:56
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Lemon-Lime posted:UC Gundam spends about 30-35 years making mobile suits bigger to pack more and more defensive tools as beam weapons get cheaper, smaller and more powerful, then eventually reaches the point where they realise it's more efficient to just be smaller and go faster. Well Beam weapons were basically introduced as the ultimate get-hosed weapon, so cool and awesome normal mobile suits could only use them under water, the Gundam was just so kickass powerful it could use them raw. But by the end of the one year war everyone had beam weapons all over the place and by the end of ZZ funnels and beams had reached a point where a battle was just lasers everywhere and you just can't really block that poo poo without special fields that don't always work. So it makes sense that being small and fast so you can be where the beams aren't is a lot safer, literally just being the antithesis of the Big Zam at this point.
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Jun 26, 2021 14:24
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The Minovsky Flight stuff on battleships and that show up on the Gundam’s in Hathaway still require outside thrust to achieve movement. Once you get to Crossbone they have ships with Minovsky Drives which create their own thrust and that is then miniaturized in Victory with the Victory 2. That is then presumably iterated on till you get the Turn A which is mostly hollow because you don’t need as much machinery inside the mobile suit when the limbs are moved by force field and you just need a few thrusters for quick maneuvering.
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Jun 26, 2021 14:38
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Watching IBO for the first time and drat, this Naze guy needs a giant Baby On Board sticker for his ship.
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Jun 26, 2021 19:29
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That whole arc just bugs me, especially because it happens early enough that Atra and Kudelia haven't really developed into their roles that I actually like. Kudelia is still fairly meek and powerless and Atra is only there because of her crush on Mika, so throwing a whole "we can both have his babies!" angle on top of them not being all that engaging made me roll my eyes. Thank God they both grow to become more compelling and meaningful to the story than "dreams of being a baby momma at 14." I mean look, I get that in Japan there is a trend of young romances leading to quick courtships and marriages and having kids. Cultures will do as they do. I still roll my eyes at teenagers wanting to have babies as the end goal of relationships and I don't give anime a pass because it's based on a cultural thing. There needs to be more to it than that for me to be engaged in a fictional romance, and the Brewers and Turbines being so early in the story sours the start of the second act for me because the show hasn't given me a reason to care for Mika and Atra and Kudelia's relationships before jumping right into babies. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jun 26, 2021 |
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Jun 26, 2021 19:55
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Ibblebibble posted:Watching IBO for the first time and drat, this Naze guy needs a giant Baby On Board sticker for his ship. Whole back of the Hammerhead covered with those our family stick figures.
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Jun 26, 2021 19:55
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ninjewtsu posted:I think he could've been in a few more episodes without overshadowing kamille. I think a plot where he tries to be the adult he should've had when he was the gundam pilot would've been a fun exploration of both characters while still keeping kamille as the lead. Maybe play a bit more into his bitterness at not being given a good robot despite everyone telling him he has to fight again because he's so good at it. I don't recall Amuro showing any bitterness that he isn't getting a good robot at all, and the only time anything like that happened so far as I recall is Beltorchika asking for the crew to let him have the Mk II because it's a Gundam. He asked for the Rick Dias before he got it (the episode before he uses one, I think) and seemed content to use it. He didn't even seem upset he was being asked to fight again either, and his conflict over that seemed internal if anything. The first time he's getting ready to go out into battle he gets the shakes, and has a moment where he's beating himself up over the fear he's feeling. Also, Char was supposed to be that adult for Kamille. He didn't do a very good job of it, and the show doesn't pretend otherwise, but it's his role in the narrative regardless. Making Amuro that adult would be redundant, and probably just gently caress with Char more if anything. fartknocker posted:Isn’t there a flashback scene sorta early in the show to Emma meeting Amuro while she was driving through North America in “an old gas powered car” before they actually meet him after Jaburo? Not quite the same, but something. I think that's from one of the Evolve shorts and not Zeta itself; the one where Amuro pilots a Zeta Plus with Shin Matsunaga and some other Newtype girl against a mobile armor that looks like a big pyramid. Ethiser posted:The Minovsky Flight stuff on battleships and that show up on the Gundam’s in Hathaway still require outside thrust to achieve movement. Once you get to Crossbone they have ships with Minovsky Drives which create their own thrust and that is then miniaturized in Victory with the Victory 2. That is then presumably iterated on till you get the Turn A which is mostly hollow because you don’t need as much machinery inside the mobile suit when the limbs are moved by force field and you just need a few thrusters for quick maneuvering. The fact the motive power on the Turn A is provided by it's i-field is one of my favorite details about it. The unit has no pistons etc. in it's joints, and instead basically marionettes itself using an i-field instead. It's a really simple concept with a nice fantasy feel wrapped in sci-fi wizardry that is just an elegant solution to "make this feel futuristic and explain why the suit is so empty compared to normal". Arcsquad12 posted:That whole arc just bugs me, especially because it happens early enough that Atra and Kudelia haven't really developed into their roles that I actually like. Kudelia is still fairly meek and powerless and Atra is only there because of her crush on Mika, so throwing a whole "we can both have his babies!" angle on top of them not being all that engaging made me roll my eyes. I vaguely recall an interview with staff after season one about how the initial plan for Naze and the Turbines was to have them betray Tekkadan after a while building up their trust, and while it's perhaps more cliche, it does feel far more interesting regardless to have Orga betrayed by someone he trusted and looked up to, among other things.
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Jun 26, 2021 22:53
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i pretty distinctly remember in my most recent zeta rewatch that when amuro is reintroduced and joins karaba he spends a decent amount of time getting paranoid and frustrated about how they asked him to fight again and then just have him sitting out several fights and aren't giving him the best robots around also i'd really like to see the differences in what amuro thinks a good adult should look like vs char trying his best to not be awful. i don't think amuro being that adult for kamille is where the story should've gone, but briefly seeing amuro make the attempt at nurturing the next generation would've been a nice compare and contrast with char doing it.
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Jun 26, 2021 23:30
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Lemon-Lime posted:UC Gundam spends about 30-35 years making mobile suits bigger to pack more and more defensive tools as beam weapons get cheaper, smaller and more powerful, then eventually reaches the point where they realise it's more efficient to just be smaller and go faster. Nuebot posted:Well Beam weapons were basically introduced as the ultimate get-hosed weapon, so cool and awesome normal mobile suits could only use them under water, the Gundam was just so kickass powerful it could use them raw. But by the end of the one year war everyone had beam weapons all over the place and by the end of ZZ funnels and beams had reached a point where a battle was just lasers everywhere and you just can't really block that poo poo without special fields that don't always work. So it makes sense that being small and fast so you can be where the beams aren't is a lot safer, literally just being the antithesis of the Big Zam at this point. It's not even a matter of being more efficient or lasers everywhere that really started the poo poo, they were developing better techniques for defense including beam coatings and miniaturized i-fields in shields and sometimes even in units and combined with the larger frames and bigger reactors meant they could get away with heavier armor too, sometimes even with multiple layers of beam coating so one some would melt off, and still have some security. It's the advent of the really super powerful compressed beam stuff like what you see in things like the Beam Magnum and VSBRs and whatnot really catching on that really pushed the shift. When you can just say 'no' to multiple layers of beam coated armor AND an i-field there's really nowhere else to go other than just 'don't get hit'.
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Jun 26, 2021 23:39
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how come the sasazabi is able to just tanke a beam rifle shot to the chest
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Jun 26, 2021 23:42
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Lemon-Lime posted:UC Gundam spends about 30-35 years making mobile suits bigger to pack more and more defensive tools as beam weapons get cheaper, smaller and more powerful, then eventually reaches the point where they realise it's more efficient to just be smaller and go faster. interestingly this happened irl with tanks but then they realised being small and quick didn't actually stop you getting hit and luckily someone invented chobham so armour became a plausible defense again.
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Jun 27, 2021 00:09
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There's a mite of difference between heat and sabot rounds and being hit with a particle beam cannon when it comes to armour, though.
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Jun 27, 2021 00:56
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Regarde Aduck posted:interestingly this happened irl with tanks but then they realised being small and quick didn't actually stop you getting hit and luckily someone invented chobham so armour became a plausible defense again. Also a mite of difference when MS are more akin to aerial fighter craft where speed and maneuverability trumps heavy armor
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Jun 27, 2021 01:29
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ninjewtsu posted:i pretty distinctly remember in my most recent zeta rewatch that when amuro is reintroduced and joins karaba he spends a decent amount of time getting paranoid and frustrated about how they asked him to fight again and then just have him sitting out several fights and aren't giving him the best robots around I've just rewatched through those episodes (albeit it putting the bits without Amuro in them that didn't look interesting at 2x or 4x speed) and don't see anything about Amuro being frustrated that he's not getting a better suit. He saves Kamille and Quattro from Buran's Asshimar at the end of episode 14, and by the mid point of 15 is running to get into a Nemo when the Audhumla is being attacked and it's Hayato who stops him. He doesn't make any indication he wants a better suit, he just runs for a Nemo and Hayato is the one to tell him to stop it because he's not touched a suit in years. After which Beltorchika notices that he's afraid, and when her realization ends, Amuro is banging his fist on the wall wondering why he's so afraid. Then in the next episode he asks Quattro to leave a Rick Dias behind when he goes to space, so he has something to take into combat. I think I see the scenes you're on about, because when he first arrives Amuro is talking to Hayato and Hayato tells him that he wants Amuro to train Katz, and Amuro retorts that he thinks it's the other way around and he thinks Hayato wants Katz to train him to be a soldier again. When Katz goes to ask Amuro how he feels about the fact a new Gundam was made, Amuro ignores him and slams a door in his face to take a shower. Then while he's showering he starts thinking that the fact Hayato and Char are showing off kids in a Gundam to him is them trying to bring out the soldier in him again, basically. Char and Beltorchika also talks about how Amuro needs to awaken his instincts, and the impression I get from them is that they viewed Amuro as having turned away from fighting in the intervening years and that they just want him to become the pilot he used to be, while Amuro is afraid of it, not because he doesn't want to pilot, since he ran to jump into a Nemo at the first sign of trouble, but because he's afraid he's no longer the person he was, and, that he's afraid of being the pilot who killed Lalah too. Also, since someone brought up how weird it was in ZZ that Amuro is said to be off in space fighting after being afraid to go to space in Zeta, and I would point out that Amuro tells Beltorchika at one point in episode 19 that he wants to go to space if it'll allow him to improve himself the way he thinks doing so will improve Kamille. He doesn't, because there's only one shuttle bed on the Sudori, which he makes Kamille take, while protecting him as he does, but he had already expressed interest in doing so and as such it wouldn't be surprising that he eventually does.
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Jun 27, 2021 02:50
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Stairmaster posted:how come the sasazabi is able to just tanke a beam rifle shot to the chest Same reason the The 0 can do it. Really thick, beam-resistant armour of the kind that most suits only have on their shields.
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Jun 27, 2021 03:33
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Stairmaster posted:how come the sasazabi is able to just tanke a beam rifle shot to the chest It...doesn't? The only shot comparable I can think of is Amuro shooting the Sazabi with a Geara Doga's beam submachine gun (so something with a weaker beam than the Nu's rifle by default), and it hitting the Sazabi's waist. Not the chest. Where it destroys armor protecting the power pipes on the unit's waist, if I recall. The Sazabi doesn't tank any hits to the chest though, so far as I recall. The Zeong did, oddly enough, but that appears to just be the fact it's a bigger unit with thicker armor rather than any special systems or anything.
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Jun 27, 2021 03:40
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tsob posted:I think that's from one of the Evolve shorts and not Zeta itself; the one where Amuro pilots a Zeta Plus with Shin Matsunaga and some other Newtype girl against a mobile armor that looks like a big pyramid. Nope, episode 8, The Dark Side of the Moon. It's about 4 minutes in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngwTcEi72U4
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Jun 27, 2021 03:40
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fartknocker posted:Nope, episode 8, The Dark Side of the Moon. It's about 4 minutes in. Thanks. I was getting it mixed up with Gundam Evolve 9, where the female AEUG pilot (Yurii Ajisah) has a flashback to meeting Amuro at some point in the past. He's driving one of the buggys you see on the White Base though, and looks like he did in 0079 rather than Zeta. So it's probably meant to be flashing back to during or slightly after the original show.
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Jun 28, 2021 03:23
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There's not a single gundam series that wouldn't be improved by the addition of more dune buggies
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Jun 28, 2021 03:28
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Gaius Marius posted:There's not a single gundam series that wouldn't be improved by the addition of more dune buggies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF77RuCCRF4
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