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CodfishCartographer posted:
Yeah that's fair. The garbage seasons started so long ago that even season 20 could be considered "classic". *sideshow bob shudder*
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Jul 2, 2021 16:48
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Yeah, the first season has some really rough animation. But by the end of the production run, they got better. Krusty Gets Busted looks really good. Season 2 is pretty much nailed down for the most part.
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Jul 2, 2021 16:59
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I'm 100% ready to be "kids these days" with that guy saying "I liked the MCU episode, because it reminded me of the MCU, which I have also seen! I enjoy it when things I see are things I have seen already." But still, a lot of earlier Simpsons references are probably pretty hard to GET if you're 20? Comedy ages faster than any other media, and even the cultural touchstones early Simpsons was making fun of are just, alien and unknown to someone who grew up in a culture that Simpsons directly influenced and created by making fun of what was at the time the normal. Media goes so FAST these days, with entire genres of ideas living and dying in a year. When I was a kid and the Simpsons referenced a trend or show or a theme I hadn't seen, media was still SLOW enough it was still in the cultural memory pool for me to understand what it was about. Media's so fast now if something isn't contemporary it's forgotten, which isn't like, a value judgement it's just different. I can get people who only consume temporary, ephemeral media to not really be into anything that isn't directly about the exact moment they live in, I guess? It did help that when Old Simpsons referenced a Thing I didn't know, they still did it where it provided its own context and was also funny on its own two legs. I watched the MCU parody Spoiler Boy episode and I'll be honest, while it was really loving stupid and I can't recall a single joke from it, I wasn't... bored? Or annoyed? It was serviceable garbage TV? But it dated itself instantly because while Old Simpsons would make references to things, they had a wide pull of time periods, and the references would always be partial. This was like, an entire episode on the cultural moment of people being anxious about the next Marvel movie. In five years that's going to mean nothing. They could have abstracted it out to fear about having things you're into being spoiled, but they just went full-on "No, this is specificially about this" which is also fine. You can make media that exists only to speak to a specific moment and then be discarded, I guess. Simpsons exists now on the Twitter scale of time, where it exists to be enjoyed in the moment of its creation and forgotten about instantly when it's over. But gently caress to say the part you liked about the episode was that "Haha I know of a character called the Hulk who is big, and in this they have a big character also, but he is instead a whale, because whales are large themselves! Haha!"
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Jul 2, 2021 17:22
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Lotsa things in old Simpsons are lifted verbatim from old movies / shows that I missed completely growing up, but they were a good bit in 1930 and still a good bit in 1995.
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Jul 2, 2021 17:38
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Cemetry Gator posted:Yeah, the first season has some really rough animation. But by the end of the production run, they got better. Krusty Gets Busted looks really good. Season 2 is pretty much nailed down for the most part. I did like early experimental weirdness like in Crepes of Wrath when Bart is travelling through France and passes by scenes from French paintings. After rewatching some season 9, while I acknowledge good stuff there gonna be considering the golden age to be 2 through 8. Season 2 needs no apologies, Dancin' Homer, Blood Feud, Simpson and Delilah, it's rock solid dammit.
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Jul 2, 2021 17:40
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The "moral degeneracy" thing in the early 90s seemed clearly at the time to be coming from people who had never seen the show, they just knew it had merchandise like Bart saying "underachiever and proud of it" Merchandise was ridiculously pervasive in those first few years
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Jul 2, 2021 17:51
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As a child watching the Simpsons I got basically none of the references, and I think I liked it better because without any context a lot of them are so surreal and bizarre, and I preferred that to “they are doing this thing that I’ve seen.” When I go back and see some of it as a parody it’s just not as good somehow
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Jul 2, 2021 17:56
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:MST3K has a similar problem with a different cause; the very first episodes that aired on Minnesota public access TV are largely unavailable because the creators own the original tapes and think they're embarrassing and have never released them. Most of them only aired once. That, combined with copyright issues with films they used, mean that most MST3K episodes can never be aired again and the best you can do is find This isn't true, or at least not anymore. The only remaining KTMA episodes that haven't been released are genuinely lost and there's only a handful of regular season episodes they can't do anything with because of rights holders - mostly the Godzilla episodes. Shout! Factory has done a good job making the show as available as possible and it still runs in syndication on networks like Comet.
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Jul 2, 2021 17:57
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of them.
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Data Graham posted:The "moral degeneracy" thing in the early 90s seemed clearly at the time to be coming from people who had never seen the show, they just knew it had merchandise like Bart saying "underachiever and proud of it"
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Jul 2, 2021 17:59
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There were fukkin congressional hearings about Night Trap.
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Jul 2, 2021 18:03
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And ultimately Tipper Gore was right. Bart calling his elders by their first name to complete societal breakdown within like 12 years. Usually you think of a slippery slope as a fallacy, but I'll be damned if this time it wasn't dead on.
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Jul 2, 2021 18:06
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Before the 20th century (and a little into it), people were convinced reading fiction would rot your brain. For as adaptable as our species is, it oddly never changes.
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Jul 2, 2021 18:28
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Das Boo posted:Before the 20th century (and a little into it), people were convinced reading fiction would rot your brain. they were right, imho
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Jul 2, 2021 18:44
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My dad forbade us from watching the Simpsons. He thinks the show is stupid and dumb and that he can't understand why anyone would watch it. Except, every time he watches a classic episode, he starts laughing. And not much makes him laugh. It's funny.
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Jul 2, 2021 19:04
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Imagined posted:You can't even talk to someone who actively prefers the animation style of zombie simpsons to the hand-drawn years. It's like someone saying Paul McCartney's latest solo album is better than Revolver because it wasn't recorded on an analog 8-track and mixed for mono. Like saying Aladdin (2019) was better than Aladdin (1992) because the former is in HD and has expensive CGI. There's a weird thing with the youths nowadays where they want to evaluate art strictly by criteria that can be measured objectively. Did YouTube spread that? It's a very consumerist point of view. some what related, there professional animators on youtube that have a choice words about dumb people that use software to make cartoons into 60 fps. more frames = better in games, therefore cartoons are the same right?
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Jul 2, 2021 19:18
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It's hard to even convey the credulous moral panic of evangelical Christians to people who were raised outside of it, or in civilized parts of the world. Absolutely no logic to it, it was 100% whatever the church told them to freak out about. Things I remember my church ranting about: Dungeons & Dragons The Simpsons Married With Children Hip-Hop Heavy Metal MTV Magic: The Gathering Mortal Kombat DOOM Beavis & Butthead Ren & Stimpy But with every single one of things there was something else just like it that I was into with no issue, because my parents put no critical thought into any of it, they were just blindly banning whatever the church told them to ban. So D&D was out, but RIFTS was fine. DOOM was out, but Wolfenstein 3D and Alone in the Dark were kosher, etc. Fantasy novels were no good, except Lord of the Rings was fine (don't tell me it's because Tolkien was a Christian -- they didn't know that, and wouldn't have thought a Catholic was a Christian anyway).
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Jul 2, 2021 19:22
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PhazonLink posted:some what related, there professional animators on youtube that have a choice words about dumb people that use software to make cartoons into 60 fps. Do you have any choice videos to share? I have seen a few of those, and they are all pretty terrible. It's also great because there's a ton of errors that crop up because when you're expanding from 12 frames or so to 60, weird things can happen.
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Jul 2, 2021 19:51
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Cemetry Gator posted:Do you have any choice videos to share? Very popular with action anime https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYYXfLdpuds Absolutely disgusting
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Jul 2, 2021 21:17
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I was in junior high when the Simpsons series debuted and I remember at least one teacher getting upset over a student wearing the t-shirt with Bart saying "Underachiever and proud of it, man!" We all got a lecture on how that was a terrible attitude to have and how you should always strive to achieve, etc. Oh, yeah, there was some real intellectually moral objection out there. I also had a French teacher who used Bart Simpson as the model for any bad behavior. "Qui a cassé la fenêtre? Bart Simpson a cassé la fenêtre avec son base-ball."
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Jul 2, 2021 21:59
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I was friends with a very religious family and they were willing to give The Simpsons a chance but were absolutely appalled at Bart saying “we payed for this stuff ourselves so thanks for nothing” during grace. They weren’t allowed to watch after that.
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Jul 2, 2021 22:51
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:On a related note, I keep seeing episodes of Family Guy on mute when I'm at the gym. Having no audio really highlights how awful the animation is. The character that is talking moves their hands around and blinks, but is otherwise completely motionless. Every character that isn't talking is completely motionless. My theory about Family Guy is that when they got their second chance they specifically agreed to spend less per episode than The Simpsons.
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Jul 2, 2021 23:01
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High framerate animation would probably look cool if somebody could actually afford to actually make it.
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Jul 2, 2021 23:02
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I think if 60 FPS animation had any worth, Richard Williams would've used it in The Thief and the Cobbler. That was a 40 year passion project by a master.
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Jul 2, 2021 23:06
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:High framerate animation would probably look cool if somebody could actually afford to actually make it. Yeah a lot of the criticism of high framerate animation is that the AI-generated versions look bad and that it fucks with the carefully-planned timing. Yes those are both true, but a) high-framerate animation wouldn't have those AI fuckups if done properly and b) the timing would have to be designed around the high-framerate. Obviously making a 60 FPS animation is a fuckton of work and money so I'm not surprised nobody wants to do it, but I'm shocked to see so much pushback from animators that it would be terrible. Honestly I'm surprised I saw such high pushback from filmmakers / moviebuffs too, saying it looks "wrong" or sped up or whatever. I suspect that's just not being used to seeing it?
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Jul 2, 2021 23:07
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:I was friends with a very religious family and they were willing to give The Simpsons a chance but were absolutely appalled at Bart saying “we payed for this stuff ourselves so thanks for nothing” during grace. They weren’t allowed to watch after that. We stopped watching as a family after Homer repeatedly fell in the canyon although I was allowed to still watch. A friend had it taken away after his mom saw Homer digging around the kiddie pool for a hot dog.
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Jul 2, 2021 23:17
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multijoe posted:Very popular with action anime Goddamn, everything about Jiren is so loving boring, and he's not even a real antagonist. He's just a dude, who's strong, who's become so strong without ever really getting the point of teamwork, until he's beaten by Goku, Vegeta, Frieza and 17 using teamwork. And he looks like the Binding of Isaac character, but all swole.
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Jul 2, 2021 23:21
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:Yeah that's fair. The garbage seasons started so long ago that even season 20 could be considered "classic". *sideshow bob shudder* I wonder if anyone has decide to check out "those classic Simpsons episodes I hear people raving about" and fired up The Italian Bob.
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Jul 2, 2021 23:48
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edogawa rando posted:Goddamn, everything about Jiren is so loving boring, and he's not even a real antagonist. He's just a dude, who's strong, who's become so strong without ever really getting the point of teamwork, until he's beaten by Goku, Vegeta, Frieza and 17 using teamwork. He fights real, real good though so still a top 50% DBZ villain
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Jul 3, 2021 00:33
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Howard Beale posted:I also had a French teacher who used Bart Simpson as the model for any bad behavior. "Qui a cassé la fenêtre? Bart Simpson a cassé la fenêtre avec son base-ball." I absolutely adore this. Teacher: <<Qui a détruit une chaise contre le dos de son père?>>
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Jul 3, 2021 00:51
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Lol Imagine having parents that are such bitches that they're offended by TV and imagine actually respecting them after that and not purposely watching things they don't approve of to prove your dominance over them.
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Jul 3, 2021 01:50
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Hyrax Attack! posted:We stopped watching as a family after Homer repeatedly fell in the canyon although I was allowed to still watch. A friend had it taken away after his mom saw Homer digging around the kiddie pool for a hot dog. Wait... really?? This seems like a joke but then again I know of plenty of 90's parents who got offended by the most mundane stuff on TV. Now I'm laughing at the idea of Homer in the kiddie pool being someone's breaking point.
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Jul 3, 2021 01:53
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FreudianSlippers posted:Lol That's what I did  Can't tell me to change the channel if you're in bed and I'm not. Checkmate mom
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Jul 3, 2021 01:57
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All the kids in the neighborhood would come over to watch Beavis and Butthead because my mom thought it was hilarious and would watch it too. Once she got over Bart being a bad influence, she was a huge Simpsons fan. Much later she was the one who discovered Venture Bros and got me watching it. Lady had good taste in cartoons.
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Jul 3, 2021 02:54
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I wonder if literally any kid thought of Bart as a model to emulate
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Jul 3, 2021 02:57
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Das Boo posted:I think if 60 FPS animation had any worth, Richard Williams would've used it in The Thief and the Cobbler. That was a 40 year passion project by a master. 60 fps became a meme with video games, doubt the idea would have even occured to Williams or anyone else that long ago. Anyways, I think animation is a much better vehicle for testing higher framerates than live action. The Soap Opera effect that occurs with the latter is, imo, an artifact of how cameras operate, how they differ from the human eye. Animation is an already unreal space with no physical camera and can pull off things live action simply can't.
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Jul 3, 2021 05:33
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I tried this with an iphone, since those allow 24, 30, and 60 fps. What I noticed with 60 is that you become a lot more aware of the physical camera. Every movement gets captured, and the footage felt disorienting because of it. 24 and 30 were really a horse a piece. Even James Cameron is not a huge fan of HFR video outside of action sequences. He felt that scenes where people are talking just look really artificial.
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Jul 3, 2021 05:43
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Mantis42 posted:60 fps became a meme with video games, doubt the idea would have even occured to Williams or anyone else that long ago. I know, but we're also talking about the dude who animated on 1s even when it wasn't necessary. I figure if anyone would cram in more drawings to make it look better, it would've been Williams. A friend of mine got really pissed working at Disney because he was hired by the showrunner to animate fluid scenes on 3s and 4s, but his Disney-trained superiors would come in behind him and note that they needed in-betweens. Disney never wants you animating on more than 2s. So of course, this hosed up his animations and killed the weight. It's more about your spacing and timing than how many drawings you have.
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Jul 3, 2021 06:35
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48 and 60 fps video also is way more clear during movement, when our real eyesight is blurred if we turn our head at even a moderate speed. 24 and 30 FPS video mimics this, but with 48 and 60 FPS video you see clearly even as the camera moves around quickly. I think a good rule of thumb is: if the content is something where it's okay to be aware of the camera and/or that someone is controlling what you see, higher framerates are fine. Example: documentaries, sports, content on YouTube capturing real life, and of course, video games. For any content where you want the viewer to not be conscious of the camera (aside from camera shots that call attention to it), 24 or 30 FPS should be used.
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Jul 3, 2021 06:37
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FreudianSlippers posted:Lol My siblings and I used to watch Captain Planet almost every day. One day my mom's best friend came over and said "you let your kids watch that? I don't let my kids watch that." And we were immediately banned from watching it. I didn't care too much, because I'd already seen every episode multiple times. I no longer speak to my mother. (For many reasons, not just the parenting-by-peer-pressure.) We were also banned from watching the Simpsons when it premiered. I just programmed the VCR and then watched the tapes at a friend's house.
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Jul 3, 2021 07:16
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My parents never banned anything because they're not losers.
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Jul 3, 2021 07:20
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