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The fat hedonist who all but publicly masturbates to casting calls, bought a railroad, and tried to turn his house into a literal castle might be a little indulgent? hosed up if true.
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Jun 30, 2021 05:31
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Mat Cauthon posted:People had a whole year and change and decided to watch anything but GoT. The eventual unpacking of how this got so hosed up is going to be immensely good, it's the only thing related to this series left to look forward to. There will never be another book, the spinoffs will be just decent if they aren't outright disappointing. I don't think there's anything to unpack? The showrunners were massively incompetent entitled failsons who literally thought of running GoT as movie-making school, and made all kinds of insane decisions due to their lack of competence, experience, and the fact that they swim in the shallow end of the Dunning Kruger pool.
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Jun 30, 2021 06:20
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This is 100% believable based on my time working for a sizable pop-culture merch company. While I can't think of an analogous situation for my company, given how uniquely bad the GoT fiasco was, I can say that licensing an IP can be pretty drat costly, and an excuse to not renew one that suddenly won't earn out is a no-brainer. I'll bet the people who managed to scrap their contracts midway through the renewal process felt like a drat bullet had whizzed over their heads after they got over the initial shock of losing the revenue stream.
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Jun 30, 2021 06:29
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I think Target is the only place still selling GoT crap like the off brand lego set of the throne room and some funko type bullshit. Surprised it hasnt been clearanced off the shelves by now.
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Jun 30, 2021 06:59
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I see a GoT branded Johnnie Walker at the liquor store sometimes but I don't want to pay the $60 or w/e to see what it's like.
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Jun 30, 2021 07:16
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Poldarn posted:I see a GoT branded Johnnie Walker at the liquor store sometimes but I don't want to pay the $60 or w/e to see what it's like. It's just the normal JW. I have the white walker bottle that's just JW Red. The Targaryen bottle is JW Black, and I forget which one is JW Gold.
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Jun 30, 2021 07:41
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That's good to know.A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:and I forget which one is JW Gold. House Tarly, obvs.
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Jun 30, 2021 08:16
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I can't see a pitch for Rothfuss going well. ...massively popular, each book can be a season. How many books are there? Well, 2 so far. it's been 10 years since the last one, but he swears that anyday n- Get out. 
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Jun 30, 2021 09:04
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pseudanonymous posted:I don't think there's anything to unpack? The showrunners were massively incompetent entitled failsons who literally thought of running GoT as movie-making school, and made all kinds of insane decisions due to their lack of competence, experience, and the fact that they swim in the shallow end of the Dunning Kruger pool. We know the broad strokes, but I figure there's a lot of detail and interpersonal experiences that would be interesting to hear about. By all accounts the first 2-3 seasons were only as good as they were because of the team of talented people around the showrunners, and once those folks were driven away or marginalized as well as GRRM no longer contributing to the writing the show clearly started the downwards trajectory. Then again I enjoy documentaries and oral histories and that sort of thing so maybe I'm biased in assuming such an unpacking would be entertaining or useful.
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Jun 30, 2021 18:14
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Deptfordx posted:I can't see a pitch for Rothfuss going well. There was supposed to be a show or something Min Manuel the rapist slaveholding founders who only wanted to not pay taxes are actually heroes Miranda was involved, I think it got cancelled.
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Jun 30, 2021 18:22
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pseudanonymous posted:There was supposed to be a show or something Min Manuel the rapist slaveholding founders who only wanted to not pay taxes are actually heroes Miranda was involved, I think it got cancelled. Wasn’t even that a prequel to the incomplete series or something?
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Jun 30, 2021 18:56
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pseudanonymous posted:There was supposed to be a show or something Min Manuel the rapist slaveholding founders who only wanted to not pay taxes are actually heroes Miranda was involved, I think it got cancelled. Seeing him gush about how great a writer Rothfuss was pretty much solidified my dislike for both of them. Klungar posted:Wasn’t even that a prequel to the incomplete series or something? The current books are the opening trilogy of a trio of trilogies or something to that effect. The TV show was going to be entirely separate and just based in the world at which point why the gently caress bother paying Rothfuss to use his generic fantasy setting instead of something else that's going to be the same or better and cheaper to license.
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Jun 30, 2021 19:58
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Evil Fluffy posted:
I did not in fact, know that part. *Clears throat* LOL.
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Jun 30, 2021 20:52
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Opening trilogy of a trilogy of trilogies. This is why God has forsaken us.
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Jun 30, 2021 21:01
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Opening trilogy of a trilogy of trilogies. There are interesting things you could do with this idea, but Rothfuss is not going to be the one to do it. Obviously certified big brain geniuses D&D think themes are for book reports (did they ever get an A on a book report I wonder?) but there are themes you could explore in part by having a trilogy of trilogies, stacking your plotting in certain ways, having certain characters change roles etc.. I think it was what Star Wars was supposed to be but here we are.
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Jun 30, 2021 21:06
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There are some people who are absolute writing machines and can just churn out content. Christian Cameron is one of those writers, he does a lot of historical fiction that I really enjoy (not without flaws, but overall solid), and he's also written some fantasy although the quality was iffy at best, he's much better at fleshing out the escapades of minor real historic figures. If he said he was going to write a nine-volume series about a particular topic, I would be very confident that within a decade he'd have it done. Actually I just looked at his bibliography and it's even more impressive than that, since 2008 he's written the six-book Tyrant series, the six-book Long War series, four books of the Chivalry series with the fifth due to be released next month, the five-book Traitor Son fantasy series that I didn't like, the three-book Masters and Mages unrelated fantasy series that I thought was decent, and three other books. Twenty-eight novels  All of these are normal to long-ish, although not massive doorstoppers like GoT.Edit: He also released a bunch of short stories in the Tom Swan series, which I haven't read, that Wikipedia says adds up to three more novels 
Kylaer fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 21:22
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Mat Cauthon posted:We know the broad strokes, but I figure there's a lot of detail and interpersonal experiences that would be interesting to hear about. By all accounts the first 2-3 seasons were only as good as they were because of the team of talented people around the showrunners, and once those folks were driven away or marginalized as well as GRRM no longer contributing to the writing the show clearly started the downwards trajectory. Something like the oral history of Twin Peaks book woul be amazing, but look how long that took to emerge and that's a show that people wanted to continue making
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Jun 30, 2021 21:36
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Kylaer posted:There are some people who are absolute writing machines and can just churn out content. Christian Cameron is one of those writers, he does a lot of historical fiction that I really enjoy (not without flaws, but overall solid), and he's also written some fantasy although the quality was iffy at best, he's much better at fleshing out the escapades of minor real historic figures. If he said he was going to write a nine-volume series about a particular topic, I would be very confident that within a decade he'd have it done. I am actually a really big fan of this author. I know it's not high literature, to some extent you could say it's the same book 28 times, but I think he has an excellent eye for historical detail and the pacing of events. Agree his fantasy fiction was a pretty poor imitation by comparison. A lot of the same plot and character beats as the historical stuff, but all the magical, out there elements just seemed a bit by-the-numbers, would rather have more history.
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Jun 30, 2021 22:14
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I have great respect for Cameron for being able to thread the needle of writing about the Crusades, from the perspective of a literal crusading knight, in the post-9/11 era, without pressing modern jingoistic buttons. He's very good at not writing things in black and white, and portraying the kind of realpolitik that surely was the actual norm of those times. Of course, that makes it all the more jarring when he decides to write a completely over the top villain character like Camus  Edit: Or the entire nation of pseudo-French in his first fantasy series who were universally raging assholes, especially since he doesn't write the actual French that way. Kylaer fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 30, 2021 22:33
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pseudanonymous posted:There are interesting things you could do with this idea, but Rothfuss is not going to be the one to do it. It's sorta how the Riftwar Cycle works: You have the 5 main stories in 3-4 books (the respective wars) with other novels in between, and of varying quality. Stuff like King's Buccaneer is decent, Jimmy and the Crawler not so much. Each Trilogy/Quadrilogy continues off of the other (and standalone books) until the series mercifully ends because the more cosmetic and philosophical Feist gets, the worse it gets. Also the last stretch of the Serpent War books is some incredibly stupid out-of-left-field poo poo which is unfortunate because the first book in that arc is really good (because it's a very obvious fantasy rip off of The Dirty Dozen).
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Jun 30, 2021 23:37
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Evil Fluffy posted:It's sorta how the Riftwar Cycle works: You have the 5 main stories in 3-4 books (the respective wars) with other novels in between, and of varying quality. Stuff like King's Buccaneer is decent, Jimmy and the Crawler not so much. Each Trilogy/Quadrilogy continues off of the other (and standalone books) until the series mercifully ends because the more cosmetic and philosophical Feist gets, the worse it gets. Also the last stretch of the Serpent War books is some incredibly stupid out-of-left-field poo poo which is unfortunate because the first book in that arc is really good (because it's a very obvious fantasy rip off of The Dirty Dozen). I like Pug and all but Raymond Feist is a pretty mediocre talent imo. But I'm specifically talking in this case about doing meta things and thematic things in response to the idea of a traditional, 3 act plot, where rising and falling action are expected, what it means to be in the first act... The first 3rd of book 1 in a trilogy of trilogies is theoretically the first act of the book and the trilogy, but the entire book 1 is act one of the story of the first trilogy, and the entire first trilogy is act 1 of a story that's occuring over 9 books. I don't just mean having the same characters kicking around that were present in earlier books, but now they are all essentially happily living ever after as princes or powerful wizards or weird dragonlords who are kind of reincarnated dragonlord people who enslaved the elves but now you're married to the elf queen. you very much could do something where you have 2 characters who are each others foils, and one starts off as "the protagonist" and one as the antagonist, and they switch in the second trilogy, and then switch back, or something like that. Mostly pretentious bullshit about storytelling, which Rothfuss is all about, but doesn't have the talent or work ethic to pull off.
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Jul 1, 2021 00:03
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pseudanonymous posted:There was supposed to be a show or something Min Manuel the rapist slaveholding founders who only wanted to not pay taxes are actually heroes Miranda was involved, I think it got cancelled. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aArqS8RHWT0
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Jul 1, 2021 17:19
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pseudanonymous posted:I like Pug and all but Raymond Feist is a pretty mediocre talent imo. I'm not crazy about the last few books he crapped out, but "pretty mediocre talent" is a bit harsh. They were fun books, and good for a few re-reads over the years.
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Jul 3, 2021 02:50
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Why did George feel the need to write some epic magnum opus fantasy series anyway? It doesn’t really fit in with the rest of his work.
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Jul 3, 2021 03:17
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As creepy and  as parts are, it is pretty clear everything up to the Red Wedding was a story GRRM did actually have in his heart. He was around 50 or so then, a minor talent who apparently had enough success to make a living and even get some Hollywood work and it probably looked like he had nowhere to go but wind down his career, so why not just go for broke with the passion project? He'll get published and maybe get a dedicated fanbase to coast on for the rest of his life, maybe even a cheap Sci-Fi TV adaptation or something, and he'll be able to retire satisfied he got to do what he wanted.Then it turns out he hit the exact right notes to become "The American Tolkien" and it all went to poo poo.
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Jul 3, 2021 03:39
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Why did George feel the need to write some epic magnum opus fantasy series anyway? It doesn’t really fit in with the rest of his work. Rumor has it he killed the person who wrote ASoIaF (the books that actually have words written), and published it under his own name.
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Jul 3, 2021 04:27
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The whole "gardening" thing seemed absurd to me at first, but when you stop and think about it, it actually kinda makes sense. I think GRRM's more of a lazy farmer than a gardener, though - he did a lot of sincere hard work in setting up the operation, plowing the fields and planting everything initially. Now he just harvests the crop every year and does the minimal amount of work for maximum payoff. Logical, in a way.
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Jul 3, 2021 04:59
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kaworu posted:The whole "gardening" thing seemed absurd to me at first, but when you stop and think about it, it actually kinda makes sense. I think GRRM's more of a lazy farmer than a gardener, though - he did a lot of sincere hard work in setting up the operation, plowing the fields and planting everything initially. Now he just harvests the crop every year and does the minimal amount of work for maximum payoff. Logical, in a way. He doesn't do poo poo. He just can't straight up admit he isn't writing anymore cause his publisher can sue him or something. It's Chris Roberts/Musky etc.
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Jul 3, 2021 05:30
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mind the walrus posted:nowhere to go but wind down his career, so why not just go for broke with the passion project? Scientists peak in their 20s, writers and artists peak in their 50s. I think he's unfair to say he had no where to go but wind down his career. He had a few passion projects, ASOIAF wasn't his first novel or anything. I think he was in a position where he was bouncing between tv and novels, and WILD CARDS and poo poo, and he tried to do something familiar but still new. He could have gone in a few directions - diving into movie scripts, or tv or videogames or whatever. He just happened to choose ASOIAF.
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Jul 3, 2021 06:11
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TERFherder posted:Scientists peak in their 20s That's bullshit, most scientists in their 20s are still trying (and nowadays, failing) to get tenure. If the work you've done as a scientist is already the best it can get before you even reach 30, you're a failure as a scientist. As just one example, Albert Einstein published his famous work about general relativity in 1915, when he was already 36 years old. Besides that, science is hard, ongoing work which is never finished. There's no real way to "peak". If you're a good scientist, you'll continue publishing until you turn to dust.
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Jul 3, 2021 10:52
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Libluini posted:That's bullshit, most scientists in their 20s are still trying (and nowadays, failing) to get tenure. If the work you've done as a scientist is already the best it can get before you even reach 30, you're a failure as a scientist. yeah, and the thing about artists and writers isn't true either
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Jul 3, 2021 11:23
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TERFherder posted:Euron isn't even interesting. I get he was supposed to be with his whores and blue wine and whatnot, but Yeah - Victorian was a more interesting / flawed character. Euron was just a caricature. Euron was one of the signs that the books were also losing direction, though not as bad as the show did later on. A setting in which one of the premises is "poo poo you do has consequences", where even loving Joffrey doesn't get to be a full monster for long before someoe smarter bumps him off... And you have this goth-looking edgelord just sailing in after years in exile, the day after the king dies strangely (not suspicious at all!), taking a dump on the empty throne, offending priests and just being a loud murderous rear end in a top hat to anyone and everyone, and this insular, vengeful raiding culture just...lets him. Crowns him king because he had a buddy blow a weird horn at a moot and them promised them the best pokemon. He doesn't have it with him, but really, guys, it's coming soon! Euron's ship would have been sunk/boarded the moment it showed on the horizon. The books have the issue of a somewhat apparent welding of one crisis to another until the big one, the one that should make all the infighting and intrigue seem petty, finally cracks. Stannis just winning in book 2 would be too early, so, um, perfect storm to let the Lannister win! Ooops, now the Lannisters are getting a bit too close to sewing it all up, they get borked hard! Now the church that has been a nonfactor in the story is suuuper important, guys! Daenerys went from a strangely apt general and reader of people doing a reverse Alexander the Great, conquering from Eat to West by guile, tactics and thinking outside the box, to a moron stuck in a city afraid of upsetting the vile local lords that she already defeated because hey, it's not time for her to get back home yet!
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Jul 3, 2021 14:06
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kaworu posted:The whole "gardening" thing seemed absurd to me at first, but when you stop and think about it, it actually kinda makes sense. I think GRRM's more of a lazy farmer than a gardener, though - he did a lot of sincere hard work in setting up the operation, plowing the fields and planting everything initially. Now he just harvests the crop every year and does the minimal amount of work for maximum payoff. Logical, in a way. I used to try the "Gardening" style in writing, and I feel that it is not a writing style that is conducive to large projects like a 1,100 page fantasy novel with lots of different viewpoints and intersecting storylines that you started thirty years ago. "Gardening" or "farming" are even kind of misleading terms. A farmer doesn't walk out into the woods, cut down a tree, plant few wheat seeds, then move a few hundred feet over, cut down a tree, then plant a few corn seeds. A farmer or gardener scouts the land they want to work on, clears away the land in which they're going to work and sets about planting seeds, and then works their farm/garden within their planned confines. When they need more space, they clear room for those extra plants when they have the time, but a good gardener doesn't clear fifty square feet, plant two tomatoes, then start ripping up the rest of the yard. When I'm working on a project by just writing little patches of story here and there, I find myself having to constantly comb back over chapters that I've written out of order, checking for inconsistencies and making sure the timelines all line up correctly. Meanwhile, George has been taking so long that he's probably constantly re-assessed where he wants to the overall plot to go for these viewpoint characters, of whom I think he has a dozen at this point. I genuinely believe that he has been writing for Winds of Winter and probably has hundreds of pages of work saved, but my guess is that whatever he has looks like the typical "working manuscript" for amateur fantasy writers that I've proofread for, in that it's likely a lot of half-written dialogue as well as the few scenes that he was excited to write at the time. I genuinely think he would benefit from a co-writer, especially at age 72. Ever since Youtube videos of Stephen King putting down the idea of an outline started going around, I've seen more and more prospective authors bragging about how they don't use outlines or don't have story beats planned for a writing project. In my experience, unless those authors actually know how to finish projects or are devoted crafters of narratives who sit down and write those first hundred pages of their stories at the beginning, their "gardening" usually just results in 400 pages of disconnected dialogue and backstory. "Letting the characters find the story" works for someone like King who "peels potatoes" by just sitting down and writing a 1,000 words per day and probably has a workable narrative in his mind, but he also sticks to story structure in the form of writing conventions that help guide a story forward. "Gardening" doesn't work so well when you just want to sit down and write the cool parts of the story that you daydreamed about at work today, and I say that as a person who wasted ten years of his life making that particular screw-up. Coquito Ergo Sum fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Jul 5, 2021 |
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Jul 3, 2021 18:11
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Libluini posted:That's bullshit Yes, you are right. I was pulling some outdated theories from memory.
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Jul 4, 2021 02:53
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Crosssssspossssst Lol im reading one of the interviews with those clowns https://mobile.twitter.com/ForArya/status/1188190209583800326 https://mobile.twitter.com/ForArya/status/1188191274773426176 https://mobile.twitter.com/ForArya/status/1188193290295885824 https://mobile.twitter.com/ForArya/status/1188194068116979713 https://mobile.twitter.com/ForArya/status/1188195843159015424 https://mobile.twitter.com/ForArya/status/1188198257207468033 https://mobile.twitter.com/ForArya/status/1188198873195601920 https://mobile.twitter.com/ForArya/status/1188199326150995968 What terrible fuckers. Pretty apt
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Jul 4, 2021 07:41
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Good lord. The production crew and cast really did just brute force their way to 3-4 good seasons before it all started falling apart.
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Jul 4, 2021 10:06
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:Ever since Youtube videos of Stephen King putting down the idea of an outline started going around, I've seen more and more prospective authors bragging about how they don't use outlines or don't have story beats planned for a writing project. In my experience, unless those authors actually know how to finish projects or are devoted crafters of narratives who sit down and write those first hundred pages of their stories at the beginning, their "gardening" usually just results in 400 pages of disconnected dialogue and backstory. "Letting the characters find the story" works for someone like King who writes very focused narratives and probably has a workable narrative in his mind, but he also sticks to story structure in the form of writing conventions that help guide a story forward. "Gardening" doesn't work so well when you just want to sit down and write the cool parts of the story that you daydreamed about at work today, and I say that as a person who wasted ten years of his life making that particular screw-up. It also works for King because he sits down and puts down a few thousand words every day until he finishes. I remember listening to interview years ago with another author who wings it, and his observation was that if you don't have that kind of momentum of composition, the approach fails
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Jul 4, 2021 10:25
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Well, we'd never done it before. Did you listen to criticism? No. It's loving amazing how entitled rich people are.
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Jul 4, 2021 11:32
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Sephyr posted:Daenerys went from a strangely apt general and reader of people doing a reverse Alexander the Great, conquering from Eat to West by guile, tactics and thinking outside the box, to a moron stuck in a city afraid of upsetting the vile local lords that she already defeated because hey, it's not time for her to get back home yet! You may be too young to remember, but years and years ago, after the first three books had been published, a group of people came into power who called themselves the Neocons, and they believed you could bring freedom and civilization to the backwards peoples of the Middle East, by bombing their cities and overthrowing their tyrannical rulers. Sadly, that didn't quite go as planned. What I'm saying is, whatever hero narrative GRRM had planned for Dany in Slavers' Bay, it definitely got derailed by 9/11 and the Iraq War, if he even had intended for such a neat and simple narrative in the first place.
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Jul 4, 2021 13:21
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TowerofOil posted:Good lord. The production crew and cast really did just brute force their way to 3-4 good seasons before it all started falling apart. Hannibal Rex posted:What I'm saying is, whatever hero narrative GRRM had planned for Dany in Slavers' Bay, it definitely got derailed by 9/11 and the Iraq War, if he even had intended for such a neat and simple narrative in the first place. Coquito Ergo Sum posted:Ever since Youtube videos of Stephen King putting down the idea of an outline started going around, I've seen more and more prospective authors bragging about how they don't use outlines or don't have story beats planned for a writing project. In my experience, unless those authors actually know how to finish projects or are devoted crafters of narratives who sit down and write those first hundred pages of their stories at the beginning, their "gardening" usually just results in 400 pages of disconnected dialogue and backstory. "Letting the characters find the story" works for someone like King who writes very focused narratives and probably has a workable narrative in his mind, but he also sticks to story structure in the form of writing conventions that help guide a story forward. "Gardening" doesn't work so well when you just want to sit down and write the cool parts of the story that you daydreamed about at work today, and I say that as a person who wasted ten years of his life making that particular screw-up. Yet he says that to aspiring and nascent writers? Even long-standing professionals like GRRM objectively go to poo poo without outlines-- we have millions of words over decades attesting to that very fact. God gently caress that noise. It really is just noise. Writing is a craft same as anything else, and while sometimes inspiration or the gardening method will take you, most of the time you just have to shut up and embrace the pain of structure.
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Jul 4, 2021 13:50
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