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Kesper North posted:Didn't Patrick Stewart demand that scene himself? Luigi Thirty posted:Patrick Stewart wanted Picard to do more action stuff, yeah. I think he demanded the dune buggy. Yes. Patrick Stewart got really into off roading shortly before production on Nemesis began and asked for there to be a scene in the script where Picard takes the Enterprise's new dune buggy out for a spin as an excuse to spend a few days bombing around the desert in a 4x4 on Paramount's dime. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Jul 6, 2021 |
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Jul 6, 2021 09:47
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Kesper North posted:Didn't Patrick Stewart demand that scene himself? Ah, the old Jon Pertwee. A classic! For those of you who don't know, Jon Pertwee was the 3rd person to play The Doctor in Doctor Who. In his send-off episode, right before he's replaced with Tom Baker, he spends a sizable chunk of the episode tooling around in a classic car, and for the exact same reasons why Patrick Stewart did. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Jul 6, 2021 |
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Jul 6, 2021 13:15
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I've soured on First Contact lately. It seemed super rad when I was a kid, but after having seen more of the action movies that I wasn't yet exposed to back then, coming back to it, it comes off as very average. It really needed to do right by the characters to stand the test of time, but unfortunately the only really good character moments are brief scenes with Troi and Worf. And you've got Picard's thing which has potential but is handled really messily. On paper there's nothing wrong with revisiting his trauma even though it was already "over" by the end of the show, but sadly they didn't seem to see much value in it beyond an excuse to do action hero stuff.
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Jul 6, 2021 14:48
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https://twitter.com/TheKateMulgrew/status/1412091142125109253?s=19
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Jul 6, 2021 15:20
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First Contact is a good movie and does something later Star Trek movies didn't do very well except for maybe Beyond: 1) The whole cast is used to a certain degree, except for maybe Geordi. 2) There are a lot of interesting thematic things going on in the movie. Picard wanting to hurt the borg is obviously the most prevalent but I an underrated part of that movie is the whole Chochran arch and I think takes on a lot of meaning as I get older. Our society idealizes heroes and tends to wash out the negative aspects of their personalities as time goes forward. Finding out that Chochran wanted to make a FTL drive to get chicks in money is such a great way to examine both the utopia of Trek and our own lives and Riker's line about just be yourself and let history sort it out is also fun. 3) I think its a beautiful movie, the sets, the color and its loving creepy too. its too bad the tv version cuts out the this scene. Anyways, I like the first two TNG. I understand why people have a love hate relationship with Generations but First Contact deserves more love.
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Jul 6, 2021 16:10
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1) They shouldn't have destroyed the Enterprise D in Generations 2) They should have destroyed the Enterprise D in First Contact "Blow up the drat ship" is followed through on, and by destroying the Borg Queen, everything resets somehow and they don't need a "get back" plan as a result. There's a lot of stuff I'd change in that movie though.
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Jul 6, 2021 16:51
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First Contact has a bit of a Raiders of the Lost Arc problem.
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Jul 6, 2021 17:02
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Mooseontheloose posted:1) The whole cast is used to a certain degree, except for maybe Geordi. Dr Crusher.
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Jul 6, 2021 17:03
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Alchenar posted:First Contact has a bit of a Raiders of the Lost Arc problem.
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Jul 6, 2021 17:05
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MikeJF posted:Dr Crusher. Fair she gets absolutely screwed in the movies in terms of not doing anything. What I do ding the TNG movies is trying to make Picard/Data the new Kirk/Spock not realizing that Riker and the rest of the crew were also integral to the series.
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Jul 6, 2021 17:10
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FlamingLiberal posted:The problem being that it’s good? Picard's emotional arc is important, but the film ends exactly the same way no matter what he does.
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Jul 6, 2021 17:15
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blastron posted:The shots we got from inside Discovery’s Enterprise were fantastic. They married modern sci-fi aesthetics with the bright primary colors of the original series and I can absolutely get behind the idea that this is what it “really” looked like. I’m really looking forward to seeing the rest of the ship. I couldn't disagree more, if only because "modern sci-fi aesthetics" itself is hardly something to be held in high regard. And it's going to look even more dated with the same distance than the original designs do now, because the original was breaking with the cliches and tropes of the time instead of chasing after them. Alchenar posted:First Contact has a bit of a Raiders of the Lost Arc problem. This sentence is a matryoshka doll of lol
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Jul 6, 2021 17:19
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The new stuff tries to do this weird retro futurism vibe which is admirable but it doesn't lean into it hard enough so it just looks like a video game with lots of micro transactions
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Jul 6, 2021 17:55
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My opinion is that if you're going to modernize something, it should look the same if you blur your eyes enough.
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Jul 6, 2021 18:06
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And then there's the bits where they don't even bother and just go 'gently caress it' like the Disco Enterprise engineering Everything must glow blue.
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Jul 6, 2021 18:10
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Blue and Orange, because of course
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Jul 6, 2021 18:45
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drat it, it's supposed to be blue and RED
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Jul 6, 2021 18:51
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Sash! posted:1) They shouldn't have destroyed the Enterprise D in Generations And yeah instead of blowing up the D we get... Data punching a pipe (after stalling for no reason other than to create tension for the viewing audience). Also FC, while much more coherent than Generations, still feels like several half-baked scripts that got mashed into a single movie. Time travel doesn't seem like the Borgs' MO at all and that always irked me, feels like it was written for someone else.
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Jul 6, 2021 18:51
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Minidust posted:Also FC, while much more coherent than Generations, still feels like several half-baked scripts that got mashed into a single movie. Time travel doesn't seem like the Borgs' MO at all and that always irked me, feels like it was written for someone else. That's pretty much what happened. Braga wanted to do a time travel film and Moore wanted to do The Borg Get Serious so they just split the difference
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Jul 6, 2021 19:11
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Yeah, both Generations and First Contact have too much going on. Generations is worse about it, but First Contact never quite succeeds in explaining its Borg plot. It looks and sounds fantastic and does a good job of building tension, but it doesn’t make all that much sense. The Queen spends the whole movie hinting that she has some big reason for everything that mere organics can’t understand, but it never comes across what it is. It ends up feeling like she just wanted to gently caress with Data for fun. The Earth/Cochrane stuff is much better though it would probably be too light for a whole movie without some other villain attached. IMO: they should have done one movie of time travel to save first contact, with the villain being local to the past, like a Mad Max-style post-apocalypse warlord who wants the “missile” for his own or something. Then one movie of Borg stuff with the Enterprise crew teaming up with the Defiant so Picard and Sisko can work out their issues.
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Jul 6, 2021 19:17
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I saw First Contact before I saw an episode of TNG. I thought it was a cool movie. Rewatching it after I watched TNG is an interesting experience. It feels so unlike TNG it is bizarre. I still enjoy it though.
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Jul 6, 2021 19:20
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skasion posted:IMO: they should have done one movie of time travel to save first contact, with the villain being local to the past, like a Mad Max-style post-apocalypse warlord who wants the “missile” for his own or something. Then one movie of Borg stuff with the Enterprise crew teaming up with the Defiant so Picard and Sisko can work out their issues. You could do FC with Romulans instead of Borg. They're the ones who always end up practically breaking reality just to make their engine go faster or whatever, so inventing a time travel mechanism just to screw with humans & Vulcans is pretty on-brand. The Cochrane story does feel a little too slight to be a whole movie, but at the end of the day most of the best moments are in it, so I think you could beef it up with some effort. And yeah, it's been said before, but a movie with Picard & Sisko teaming up to fight the Borg, working through the aftermath of Wolf 359 on all fronts and blowing up the ship in the process...  If only. The way I picture it is Sisko being the more unhinged one (naturally) and Picard being forced to play good cop even though deep down he hates the Borg just as much, if not more.
Sir Lemming fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jul 6, 2021 |
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Jul 6, 2021 19:43
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skasion posted:Yeah, both Generations and First Contact have too much going on. Generations is worse about it, but First Contact never quite succeeds in explaining its Borg plot. It looks and sounds fantastic and does a good job of building tension, but it doesn’t make all that much sense. The Queen spends the whole movie hinting that she has some big reason for everything that mere organics can’t understand, but it never comes across what it is. It ends up feeling like she just wanted to gently caress with Data for fun. The Earth/Cochrane stuff is much better though it would probably be too light for a whole movie without some other villain attached. True. The Borg Queen subplot builds up a lot of tension that never really goes anywhere and doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Granted, I'm coming from the perspective of someone who is familiar with TNG, but there was little doubt that Data would decline to betray his crew for her. FC does contain one of my favorite Data moments: his deadpan "Greetings" to Lily in the missile silo after she emptied an entire clip of bullets into him.
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Jul 6, 2021 19:51
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MikeJF posted:And then there's the bits where they don't even bother and just go 'gently caress it' like the Disco Enterprise engineering It's like those ice planet Legos from the 90s but more nonsensical
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Jul 6, 2021 19:54
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The single greatest mistake made in all of Star Trek is that they didn't put the idea for Yesterday's Enterprise on a shelf and come back to it for a movie. Picard fighting off the Klingons so that Kirk can die defending Klingons from the Romulans.
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Jul 6, 2021 20:58
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Now I'm sad.
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Jul 6, 2021 21:14
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These days I try to be glad we got what we got instead of being sad about what might have been
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Jul 6, 2021 21:18
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Sash! posted:The single greatest mistake made in all of Star Trek is that they didn't put the idea for Yesterday's Enterprise on a shelf and come back to it for a movie. Picard fighting off the Klingons so that Kirk can die defending Klingons from the Romulans. People who say this seem to fundamentally misunderstand Kirk's entire throughline as a character. He isn't nearly the action hero that parodies and pop culture make him out to be.
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Jul 6, 2021 21:41
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Timby posted:People who say this seem to fundamentally misunderstand Kirk's entire throughline as a character. He isn't nearly the action hero that parodies and pop culture make him out to be. But it's a logical extension of Movie-Kirk's arc from 3 to 6, where he goes from hating them for killing David to willing to fight for the possibility of long-term peace.
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Jul 6, 2021 21:51
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Yesterday's Enterprise would have been a fun movie for the fans but utterly unmarketable since you need a baseline of what's "normal" for the plot to resonate.
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Jul 6, 2021 21:52
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Sash! posted:The single greatest mistake made in all of Star Trek is that they didn't put the idea for Yesterday's Enterprise on a shelf and come back to it for a movie. Picard fighting off the Klingons so that Kirk can die defending Klingons from the Romulans. Just reuse the episode's plot with a movie budget, like they did with TMP
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Jul 6, 2021 22:02
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Have the Defiant go back in time too and the only way to defeat the Borg is to separate the saucer section and then combine the Enterprise with the Defiant in place of the saucer section, forming the Enterprise D-Fiant
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Jul 6, 2021 22:11
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Have the Defiant go back in time too and the only way to defeat the Borg is to separate the saucer section and then combine the Enterprise with the Defiant in place of the saucer section, forming the Enterprise D-Fiant 
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Jul 6, 2021 22:27
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Tunicate posted:Just reuse the episode's plot with a movie budget, like they did with TMP That would go over like a wet fart with audiences. Hell, some of the cast didn't understand what was happening in Yesterday's Enterprise (notably Frakes), how on Earth do you think general audiences--as in people who might have a casual, passing familiarity with Trek--would react? I mean, poo poo, DS9's offices got flooded with hate mail after The Jem'Hadar because people thought they had just blown up the Enterprise-D. Timby fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jul 6, 2021 |
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Jul 6, 2021 22:30
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Tighclops posted:It's like those ice planet Legos from the 90s but more nonsensical How dare you besmirch the transparent orange chainsaw like this 
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Jul 6, 2021 22:30
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Have the Defiant go back in time too and the only way to defeat the Borg is to separate the saucer section and then combine the Enterprise with the Defiant in place of the saucer section, forming the Enterprise D-Fiant 
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Jul 6, 2021 22:31
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Have the Defiant go back in time too and the only way to defeat the Borg is to separate the saucer section and then combine the Enterprise with the Defiant in place of the saucer section, forming the Enterprise D-Fiant The world was not ready for super starship anime
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Jul 6, 2021 22:39
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bull3964 posted:Yesterday's Enterprise would have been a fun movie for the fans but utterly unmarketable since you need a baseline of what's "normal" for the plot to resonate. I understood the plot to that episode when I was 4 years old so I don't know if it would have been too complex for people, especially if you market it as the big team up movie.
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Jul 6, 2021 23:09
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The actual perfect scenario there would be to have Yesterday's Enterprise: Kirk Version as the TNG season 6 finale instead of Descent. I mean obviously there's basically zero chance that ever would've happened but since we're dreaming...
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Jul 6, 2021 23:18
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Have the Defiant go back in time too and the only way to defeat the Borg is to separate the saucer section and then combine the Enterprise with the Defiant in place of the saucer section, forming the Enterprise D-Fiant BORG QUEEN: Aaaaah! After 10,000 years I'm free! It's time to conquer Earth! PICARD'S HEAD IN A TUBE: Data! The Borg Queen's escaped! Recruit a team of officers with attitude!
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Jul 6, 2021 23:26
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