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alf_pogs posted:alien 3 and ressurection is just ripley's cryosleep fever dream none of it is canon Not exactly. Alien 3 says Ripley is half-asleep, and therefore implicitly half-dreaming. The narrative of Alien 3 is that Ripley actually is suffering hallucinations, and the demon doesn’t actually exist except as a metaphor. But there are two aliens. There’s nothing particularly implausible about a spider-thing hitching a ride on the dropship along with the queen, but the existence of the egg is blatantly impossible. Therefore, the impossible egg must be a metaphor too: the origin of the metaphorical demon.
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Jul 8, 2021 04:07
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NikkolasKing posted:Has Chestburster incubation ever been consistent between films or is it always just plot dependent? For the first question, I think the timeline of incubation is relatively consistent in at least the first three movies. We don’t see any characters do a full facehugger to chestburster cycle in Aliens so it at least doesn’t contradict the first (there is a cut scene with Burke that would have caused issues, but it’s not even in the extended version). For Alien 3 it’s hard to say because it’s a different type of facehugger and host animal. I don’t remember if Resurrection condenses it, and AvP doesn’t spend even a single second trying to justify why it suddenly takes like 20 minutes. As far as the eggs go, they are clearly some kind of organism as well; perhaps more plant than animal. I don’t think any earthly species does that.
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Jul 8, 2021 04:18
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So my partner recently said she never saw PREDATOR, so we rectified that. Then she saw PREDATOR 2. This lead to her saying she wanted to watch AVP. I’d seen all these, of course. Then she learned of AVP2, which I never saw myself, and we watched it tonight (the extended edition on HBO) and I’ve always heard this, but jesus gently caress was the picture dark.
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Jul 8, 2021 04:34
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david_a posted:As far as the eggs go, they are clearly some kind of organism as well; perhaps more plant than animal. I don’t think any earthly species does that. Yeah, the eggs remind me of plants. For example, a venus flytrap opens up. It's a really nice touch: even the eggs are designed to ensnare other organisms.
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Jul 8, 2021 04:39
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jtr posted:So my partner recently said she never saw PREDATOR, so we rectified that. Then she saw PREDATOR 2. This lead to her saying she wanted to watch AVP. I’d seen all these, of course. Then she learned of AVP2, which I never saw myself, and we watched it tonight (the extended edition on HBO) and I’ve always heard this, but jesus gently caress was the picture dark. AVPR is more interesting than AVP but AVP is more watchable than AVPR. Shrimp or Shrimps fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jul 8, 2021 |
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Jul 8, 2021 04:40
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:AVPR is more interesting than AVP but AVP is more watchable than AVPR. I absolutely agree with this.
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Jul 8, 2021 04:49
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NikkolasKing posted:Also I know it's an alien but when I think eggs I think cracking open, not like folding open. Are there any animal eggs like that on Earth? There are a ton of animals, maybe there are eggs more like that I just don't know about. Reptiles (maybe only some, dunno) have leatherly eggs, so while they don't open up like flowers, they also don't crack like avian eggs.
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Jul 8, 2021 05:10
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That's a good point about the eggs being alive in their own way, never thought of it like that. As for AVPR vs. AVP, I prefer the sequel simply because we got more aliens fighting a predator. I recall a lot of folks hated AVPR but that fact alone makes me prefer it. AVP really expected us to care about these human meatbags but AVPR does not. Wolf is here to do a job and be the coolest pred ever while doing it. Then, I know I'm weird because I love Predator 2 and prefer it to Predator. Much like Aliens, I just don't like this "macho team of macho guys" 80s action style. I like both Predator and Aliens alright but the adoration for them shown by others eludes me. Predator 2 meanwhile had cool gadgets and, most importantly, the most awesome predator theme of all time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH76nGp3OhQ That beats either the Billy or Hanzo scene IMO because of that music. The whole leitmotif throughout the film emphasizes the slow doom that befalls anybody caught in the predator's hunting. Because, even without their toys, Yautja are clearly stronger, faster and tougher than any human being alive. Used to be a huge what fictional character could beat which nerd and the Pred in 2 just laughed off pistol shots and then walked off gunshot wounds.
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Jul 8, 2021 05:14
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NikkolasKing posted:Has Chestburster incubation ever been consistent between films or is it always just plot dependent? Alien3 is presumed to operate on the same rough time table, but Ripley’s Queen chestburster takes longer because it’s a Queen. AvP’s chestbursters are faster, but the novelization explains it as the Predators tampering with the Queen (and thus the eggs, etc) to speed to the life cycle so they don’t have to sit around and wait for a day. This accelerated growth rate continues into AvPR because those Aliens are a genetic continuation of the ones in the first movie. Alien Covenant throws it all out the window and says you barely need to be facehugged in order to be impregnated, and also impregnation is even faster than AvP, because they’re Aliens and they’re weird and inconsistent and just roll with it.
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Jul 8, 2021 06:38
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It's been a long time since I saw Aliens 3 but didn't the dog get facehugged and chestbusted very quickly? It's like the alien spitting acid in the dude's face. That's totally new, too.
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Jul 8, 2021 06:54
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I’d have to do a little research on the timeline with the dog but I think it was about a day as well.
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Jul 8, 2021 07:01
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ScottyJSno posted:Wizard did it. A space wizard....  
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Jul 8, 2021 09:34
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I love David so much. It’ll be a deep hole if I never get a conclusion to his story in some kind of movie or show.
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Jul 8, 2021 09:38
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Same. David is the best thing to happen to the franchise since 1979.
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Jul 8, 2021 10:31
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CelticPredator posted:I love David so much. It’ll be a deep hole if I never get a conclusion to his story in some kind of movie or show. David died on the way back to his home planet.
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Jul 8, 2021 15:04
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David never dies. He only lives and creates
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Jul 8, 2021 15:06
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I love David and of course I'd want to see another entry in his story but at the same time I sort of like the idea of ending it with him just going off into the void with a bunch of Xeno eggs/human hosts and we just imagine all the crazy shenanigans he gets up to traveling from planet to planet.
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Jul 8, 2021 15:10
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I will be disappointed to never see him get his extremely violent comeuppance at the hands of his own creations
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Jul 8, 2021 15:15
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multijoe posted:I will be disappointed to never see him get his extremely violent comeuppance at the hands of his own creations David survives until right after the chronologically-last piece of Alien media, then easily kills all the aliens in the universe with sound logic and tactics. The series is now over forever, the end.
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Jul 8, 2021 15:58
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David wipes out all life in the universe, uses a few billion years to achieve mastery over physics until the heat death of the universe, says "let there be light," creates Earth, and achieves his dream of becoming god to spend the rest of eternity cackling as he tortures humanity. This is the happy ending I want for him.
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Jul 8, 2021 16:32
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multijoe posted:I will be disappointed to never see him get his extremely violent comeuppance at the hands of his own creations Why would they do that, he's one of them Humans are dangerous to him but he's generally a few steps ahead of us
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Jul 8, 2021 16:42
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:David survives until right after the chronologically-last piece of Alien media, then easily kills all the aliens in the universe with sound logic
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Jul 8, 2021 17:42
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NikkolasKing posted:That beats either the Billy or Hanzo scene IMO because of that music. The whole leitmotif throughout the film emphasizes the slow doom that befalls anybody caught in the predator's hunting. Because, even without their toys, Yautja are clearly stronger, faster and tougher than any human being alive. Used to be a huge what fictional character could beat which nerd and the Pred in 2 just laughed off pistol shots and then walked off gunshot wounds. This is what I love about Predator 2, the Predator may as well be a force of nature, but Danny Glover beats it by hunting it and using its own stuff against it. And it's legit impressive how the movie slowly has him come around on that from at first having his colleagues investigate and react to stuff to him thinking to armor himself, cutting the Predator's arm off with its own blade, and then hunting it down and gutting it in its own ship.  Like Predator 2 just fuckin' owns all the way.Instead of doing AvP stuff they should have had the government make Harrigan change his name to Murtaugh and moved to a different precinct as part of covering up the Predator ship leaving LA and done a Lethal Weapon crossover lmao Also it's absolutely one of those ur-90s flicks imo with how a lot of it is shot and sounds (though not many 90s movies having a soundtrack as good) and surely influenced a lot of extreme 90s comics too in the same ways. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jul 8, 2021 |
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Jul 8, 2021 23:44
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Predator 2 is the most faithful adaptation possible of a dark horse comic that doesn’t exist
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Jul 9, 2021 00:10
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Predator 2 is the most faithful adaptation possible of a dark horse comic that doesn’t exist Well, about that… https://www.avpgalaxy.net/predator-movies/predator-2/how-predator-concrete-jungle-influenced-predator-2/
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Jul 9, 2021 02:09
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I always forget that Predator 2 is a comic book movie.
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Jul 9, 2021 03:48
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Xenomrph posted:Wait what? He's a company droid and these films bash us over the head with what that implies but on top of that? First chance to dissect a facehugger and he's utterly fascinated to the point that a marine is spooked before Bishop gushes about what a "magnificent creature" it is. When Ripley tells him to destroy his specimens after the survivors finish setting up a perimeter he says he's under orders to keep them "alive in stasis for return to the company labs". The movie establishes that as Bishop's purpose during the mission - he's there to bring something back, and in this case it was going to be facehuggers. We later see that Burke releases them where Ripley & Newt are sleeping to try and impregnate them after Bishop volunteers to realign the dish and get the last drop ship down to LV-426, something he says he'd rather not do but makes sense when remembering his orders. We see Bishop makes it out to the dish and establishes a connection to the Sulaco to get a ship sent down. By the time the ship arrives Ripley is with a wounded Hicks. She asks how much time is left, Bishop replies "Plenty" and she informs him that they're not leaving. Bishop flies her to the reactor to rescue Newt. He lands near the elevators and when Ripley & Newt are on the run from the queen and get out the elevator? He's gone, along with the ship. At the last second he returns and I've always taken his vanishing act as him following orders and retrieving something to take back while Ripley's busy. When they return to the Sulaco we see that Hicks is no longer conscious like he was the last time Ripley saw him. Bishop says that he had to give him another shot for the pain as explanation. He then states that the platform was too unstable for the ship to remain on as an excuse for disappearing before the queen descends from the drop ship retractable gear enclosure and a fight ensues. I don't see the queen hopping off, hiding an egg and then somehow sneaking back to hide at light speed, especially since it was utterly pissed and was essentially trapped with the landing gear until it opened up. The film established what Bishop was trying to do however and when he finally had a drop ship and Ripley was going off to rescue Newt he disappeared. His final words are another little nod to Ash with his "Not bad for a human" line after establishing that he's in awe of these creatures, even after he's been ripped in half. Aside from Aliens showing us that, he outright tells Ripley in Alien 3 like Neo Rasa says. Bishop's sus as gently caress 
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Jul 9, 2021 06:04
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Another thing about Predator 2 is that the....reputation of the predator race comes from it more than 1. The idea the Yautja can be some sort of noble hunters is from 2, not from 1. In 1, sure he won't kill an unarmed opponent but that's because it's "no sport" as in, it's not fun to kill unarmed folks. Dying men who are completely helpless are still fair game. And when Dutch wins, he just laughs and tries to blow Dutch up. There is no magnanimity in defeat here which is really the most essential part of being any kind of honorable warrior.. They're still evil but Predator 1 was way more of a dick about being evil, if that makes sense.
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Jul 9, 2021 06:06
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Yeah P2 expanded the lore. It’s probably why I like it the most. That and the weapons and gore. Idk I watch it more then Predator honestly.
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Jul 9, 2021 06:07
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SUNKOS posted:He's a company droid SUNKOS posted:a marine is spooked before Bishop gushes about what a "magnificent creature" it is. SUNKOS posted:The movie establishes that as Bishop's purpose during the mission - he's there to bring something back. SUNKOS posted:He lands near the elevators and when Ripley & Newt are on the run from the queen and get out the elevator? He's gone, along with the ship. At the last second he returns and I've always taken his vanishing act as him following orders and retrieving something to take back while Ripley's busy. SUNKOS posted:The film established what Bishop was trying to do SUNKOS posted:he outright tells Ripley in Alien 3 like Neo Rasa says. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukd28UP3Icc Let's back up a minute though - you say you "always" believe Bishop was pulling a vanishing act to get an egg; do you mean that right from your first viewing of 'Aliens'? Why would you think that? Did you always think the movie had a dark, ulterior ending where Ripley and friends inherently lose after the events of the movie? Or is this a retroactive conclusion you drew in the wake of seeing 'Alien3', as a way to rationalize Alien3's plot hole? Like just to be fair, it's not the first time I've seen your reading of the movie - the debate about the egg on the Sulaco (and the theory that Bishop did it) has raged in "the fandom" for forever.
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Jul 9, 2021 06:36
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I had an idea that could be cool in an alien film where a really kind and likable Android goes nuts the moment he sees a xenomorph due to WeyYu programming every android to go into special order 937.
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Jul 9, 2021 06:44
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CelticPredator posted:I had an idea that could be cool in an alien film where a really kind and likable Android goes nuts the moment he sees a xenomorph due to WeyYu programming every android to go into special order 937.
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Jul 9, 2021 06:57
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It’s possible. I’ll never know. I’m movies only. And games I guess.
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Jul 9, 2021 07:41
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I watch the extended version of Aliens with the sentry turrets and colony scenes at the beginning, so my timestamp for thinking Bishop was responsible for the egg is 1:35:36 where Ripley tells him to destroy the specimens and he responds that he has orders to keep them in stasis and return them to the company lab. What I mentioned just reinforces that for me, especially when he disappears, which really sticks out when taking everything else into account. Bishop outright stating that his orders are to get specimens onto the Sulaco, then we see an egg there in Alien 3 and he says "It was with us the whole way" and mentions the company knowing everything in the clip you posted comes across as very blatant. That's not to say it's without fault however, because although it comes across as leaving things open for the sequel that was made, the one thing that sticks out to me is your question of "Where did he get the egg from?" because that's what I wondered as well since you'd think they were all where Ripley went - with the queen, so where else would he get one? Going out to the derelict isn't a reasonable explanation, in my opinion. It doesn't seem too unreasonable however that if the colonists were able to get facehuggers alive in stasis and store them, that there were probably other specimens in stasis elsewhere in the colony as well, such as eggs and probably even a chestburster. We're shown that the colonists had specimens so the movie supports the possibility and we know Bishop was alone going to the dish so may have seen something when exiting the pipe he was in. That's filling in gaps with imagination, though. What has me curious is how the colony was overrun. Was Newt's father really unlucky and had a queen inside him? Or did the colonists think it was just freaky and weird after the facehugger died, fell off and he seemed normal? Did they send more colonists out to the derelict to bring stuff back before his chest erupted and then whoops? If they had living facehuggers in stasis then surely they retrieved eggs, unless someone ran all the way back being chased by them  Also I had no idea there was the sound of a facehugger in the credits for Aliens?! I never sit and watch through credits so can't verify but I just clicked your link and that's one of the first comments I saw. Edit: You weren't kidding about forever either, I just noticed the date for that discussion 
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Jul 9, 2021 08:30
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Xenomrph posted:I feel like an idea like that made its way into some sort of Alien media (maybe one of the Alien short films, or the RPG?). There was one of those short films that came out recently-ish where an android and a xenomorph are stranded on a ship in deep space together.
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Jul 9, 2021 12:28
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NikkolasKing posted:Then, I know I'm weird because I love Predator 2 and prefer it to Predator. Much like Aliens, I just don't like this "macho team of macho guys" 80s action style. I like both Predator and Aliens alright but the adoration for them shown by others eludes me. The point of both movies was deconstructing that macho 80s stuff by having the machismo emasculated or controlled by vaginas. Literally.
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Jul 9, 2021 14:00
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SUNKOS posted:What has me curious is how the colony was overrun. Was Newt's father really unlucky and had a queen inside him? Or did the colonists think it was just freaky and weird after the facehugger died, fell off and he seemed normal? Did they send more colonists out to the derelict to bring stuff back before his chest erupted and then whoops? If they had living facehuggers in stasis then surely they retrieved eggs, unless someone ran all the way back being chased by them Yea I would assume that after what happened to Newt's family the colony had orders to investigate and bring back stuff that could potentially be used by the company. So they bring back a bunch of eggs for study and things progress from there.
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Jul 9, 2021 14:10
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CelticPredator posted:I had an idea that could be cool in an alien film where a really kind and likable Android goes nuts the moment he sees a xenomorph due to WeyYu programming every android to go into special order 937. This is a character type you can play in the recent tabletop RPG where you're an android but there's some specific order/thing that if you run into you just hard lock into "must do X thing until it is done" Xenomrph posted:No, he's not - he's a USCM android. Personally I don't think Bishop betrayed them (knowingly or otherwise) for the reasons you give but the way they go from Aliens to Alien 3 makes it really easy to think that happened. To me you can read it that way, there's no alien queen behind Ripley when they finally gets to the top of the complex to get picked up, then Bishop swooshes in to save them at the last second - the queen hitched a ride with Bishop, noticing him when he flew back down to get an egg as soon as Ripley was out of site (he says they have like 28 minutes IIRC which in movie time is plenty of time for him to do that). Not that that explains how the egg is able to be on the Sulaco where it is - since that would mean Bishop got the egg, flew up, place it somewhere on the Sulaco, then flew back to get Ripley and Newt all while not noticing that the alien queen was in the landing gear. He couldn't have just had it on board when they flew up because he gets ripped in half shortly after they get back to the Sulaco. That was part of why I thought the egg was meant to be in the dropship in Alien 3's opening and not in the Sulaco proper. So the alien queen carried an egg with her and carefully hid it or/and panic laid a final egg before coming out of the back-of-house bits of the ship to kill Bishop/etc. makes the most sense but of course doesn't totally work either.
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Jul 9, 2021 14:37
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Basebf555 posted:Yea I would assume that after what happened to Newt's family the colony had orders to investigate and bring back stuff that could potentially be used by the company. So they bring back a bunch of eggs for study and things progress from there. Yeah, I figure the progression is: Burke made a standing order for shares to check out the approximate location of the ship to the colony once he heard Ripleys order, so yeah, Newts dad came back with a face hugger on him but alive, her mom told them what happened, other colonists probably brought some eggs back more carefully and were able to get some facehuggers out and contain them. Sometime around here, facehugger falls off, Newts father births an alien which may or may not have been a juvenile queen. I'd say it probably was, it captures some colonists and cocoons them and then lays eggs and implants them in order to build an army to eventually take over the colony in some kind of way where they couldn't contact the Company anymore.
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Jul 9, 2021 15:41
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Is there some in-universe explanation for why the colonists didn’t send out any info on the aliens? I would think there would be enough time between one person being infected to the colony being overrun that they could send out a status update with something like “hey so we found some weird critters out here, we’re dealing with it though no worries”
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Jul 9, 2021 15:52
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