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Coydog posted:I bet that's
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Jul 9, 2021 21:40
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as gently caress. Please post pictures or videos so we can hear it.
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A mere R1 engine? Not a Busa or H2? Sad!
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Jul 10, 2021 03:34
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I’m having trouble conceptualizing quickshifters and downshifting. I’ve never used a quickshifter, but have done some light reading on the subject. I’ve experimented with clutchless shifting before, and I understand the principle of cutting fuel or spark momentarily to unload the engine just long enough to shift up or down. When up shifting, I’m assuming you can just hold the throttle wide open, quickshifting as you go. But when downshifting with a quickshifter, do you still blip the throttle yourself to rev match? If not, does the bike do that for you (and is it “throttle by wire” that allows this)? If the bike does it for you, won’t your throttle position possibly not match your RPM, or otherwise be “wrong”? I’ve driven manual transmission cars almost exclusively for the last couple decades, though I have rented automatics a handful of times when traveling, and I remember the disconcerting feeling that the gas pedal was only vaguely linked to RPM. I can’t really picture of this vague feeling working on a motorcycle, and really have no idea how it could work while still allowing manual shifting.
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Jul 10, 2021 21:30
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A basic quick shifter that cuts spark/fuel is upshifts only, downshifts totally manual. An up/down quick shifter needs either fly by wire, wherein the QS momentarily spikes the throttle to revmatch like a dct/good automatic would, or a retrofitted air bypass that achieves the same thing without moving the throttle. How well they work varies wildly, my anecdotal experience is they work perfectly when you're giving it death and the slower you go the more useless they are. Because the blipping has to be calibrated to a certain crank inertia and intake design, and those parts are designed to work well in the engine's optimal range, the QS tends to work badly if the engine is spinning slow, or you aren't slowing very aggressively or any number of other subtle situations that don't exist on a race track. You can calculate exactly what the necessary rpm needs to be based on wheel speed and gear position, that's pretty easy, but getting the exact amount of load is hard because it depends on a shitload of variables, and those variables are drastically reduced when you're giving it death. I found the factory QS on the rsv4rf and the s1000rr circa 2015 were unreliable enough at traffic speeds that I basically used the clutch anyway because sometimes they would just decide not to work and you'd barrel toward an intersection in way too high a gear or whatever. The moment you get on the open road up to a brisk pace they work perfectly (ok the Aprilia didn't but it's an Aprilia). Basically they are a tool for racing that is being marketed as being somewhat similar to DCT/auto functionality and they just aren't. That vague feeling isn't endemic to fbw throttle, it's just cheapness/lazyness from the car manufacturer. Karen doesn't give a gently caress if her Camry has an accurate or even responsive throttle (arguably most people should have the opposite), plus it's married to a miserable slushy auto, and there's no way to automate programming this stuff, you literally have to drive around with a laptop, carefully smoothing and tweaking the mapping for every possible circumstance, so it's loving expensive and you have to do it for each and every model. Plus the market rewards emissions and economy improvements, not driver control. High performance cars don't feel like that, the old V8 bmw M3 feels exactly like a big raspy bike engine, because that's a market where it's worth spending the money to make it not-poo poo. On bikes not-poo poo throttle response is basically mandatory and attempts to rush things to market get you things like the 690. Slavvy fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jul 10, 2021 |
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Jul 10, 2021 22:06
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epswing posted:I’m having trouble conceptualizing quickshifters and downshifting. I’ve never used a quickshifter, but have done some light reading on the subject. I’ve experimented with clutchless shifting before, and I understand the principle of cutting fuel or spark momentarily to unload the engine just long enough to shift up or down. When up shifting, I’m assuming you can just hold the throttle wide open, quickshifting as you go. But when downshifting with a quickshifter, do you still blip the throttle yourself to rev match? If not, does the bike do that for you (and is it “throttle by wire” that allows this)? If the bike does it for you, won’t your throttle position possibly not match your RPM, or otherwise be “wrong”? Spark or fuel cut only allows clutchless upshift. The more advanced quickshifters include auto-blipping. It doesn't rev match per se in either case, it just manages the load through the transmission. For any given speed, there is a throttle position, that will make the engine produce just enough power so that there is zero load passing through the transmission, the gears are turning but there is little or no force from tooth to tooth. Below that throttle position, you are engine braking. Above that, you are driving. If you cut the fuel hard, you will transition to engine braking, but for a split second you will pass through zero load. That's when your preloaded gear lever makes its clunk. On the downshift, if you are engine braking before shifting, the zero load throttle position is above your current throttle position, so the engine needs to produce more power. That's what the blip does. In both cases, the revs are matched by brute force as the drivetrain reconnects. You can save money and installation effort, or learn the concept of drivetrain load, by doing both with your throttle hand, although a downshift blip feels worse than an upshift cut. I haven't tried this myself, but if you are steady speed and downshifting to accelerate, can't you use throttle cut to downshift? efb
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Jul 10, 2021 22:14
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You can clutch less downshift but it sucks rear end on almost every bike, I've only successfully done it smoothly on 125's, two strokes, basically bikes with negligible engine braking. If you have a nice slipper clutch you can be pretty smooth when smashing down hard in the braking zone but at 'normal' speeds the slipper doesn't activate so you just get a bunch of jerking. Gently feathering the clutch just momentarily smooths everything out.
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Jul 10, 2021 22:17
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As hardcore an EV proponent I am, there is little more "horse and rider" feeling than nailing a blipped downshift under hard braking.
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Jul 10, 2021 22:25
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Clutchless down works well on my bike. I rode a KTM with quickshifter, but the downshift kinda sucked. Upshifting works fine as long as you don't move the throttle.
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Jul 10, 2021 22:29
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KTM's quickshifter on the 1290 whips rear end
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Jul 11, 2021 00:29
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SEKCobra posted:Clutchless down works well on my bike. right arm posted:KTM's quickshifter on the 1290 whips rear end Up and down work great on my 1290 Duke, but the key is to keep the throttle steady. You really have to avoid the instinct to roll off or blip the throttle or it'll be jerky, but if you keep it steady, can smoothly go from first to sixth and back again. Muscle memory is hard to break though, so I almost always use the clutch anyway.
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Jul 11, 2021 00:52
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Ola posted:As hardcore an EV proponent I am, there is little more "horse and rider" feeling than nailing a blipped downshift under hard braking. I have a 人馬一体 sticker on my helmet 
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Jul 11, 2021 03:00
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Sagebrush posted:I have a 人馬一体 sticker on my helmet Where did you procure such a thing?
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Jul 11, 2021 03:29
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I just love quickshifters. On the SMC-R it worked brilliantly, both up and down. The only thing that messed with me, was that the slightest pressure on the gear lever resulted in a short cut or boost of power. So i'd get ready to shift down and put slight pressure on the shifter, not knowing the quickshifter worked both ways, and get a surge of power... The Duke 890r i rode oddly had no quickshifter (or it was turned off, idk, my own bikes are decades old and DIGITAL IGNITION is the most high tech thing on them) but it took a few jolty shifts before i realized 'oh, this thing will just click into the next gear under light load and doesn't have a quickshifter'.
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Jul 11, 2021 10:51
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If there isn’t an audible CLUNK and a solid actuation feeling against your toes / sole, have you even shifted?
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Jul 11, 2021 13:41
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Who was it that described their bike going into first as being exactly like an M16 bolt slamming forward? My zrx was roughly like a 4lb hammer dropping into a metal sink.
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Jul 11, 2021 19:46
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Russian Bear posted:Do you have an AI thread for this thing or have you posted it here? Coydog posted:I bet that's 1100lb, chain drive all the way to a gutted Miata limited slip differential. I've only had it on track once but it's quick, sadly I was fighting fuel starvation issues. Headed back to the track in a couple months when it's a bit cooler.    Motion Pro is again not replying to my emails, I'll give them a call this week and see if they can help me out.
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Jul 11, 2021 20:06
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That is extremely cool! If you can get the factory air box or something resembling it back on there, you'll make more and smoother power, pod filters on cv carbs works badly.
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Jul 11, 2021 20:12
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NitroSpazzz posted:1100lb, chain drive all the way to a gutted Miata limited slip differential. I've only had it on track once but it's quick, sadly I was fighting fuel starvation issues. Headed back to the track in a couple months when it's a bit cooler. lol sick
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Jul 11, 2021 20:53
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Slavvy posted:That is extremely cool! I've been meaning to make a stock airbox work or build something, the pods are just sucking hot air and are pretty junk.
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Jul 11, 2021 22:40
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NitroSpazzz posted:I've been meaning to make a stock airbox work or build something, the pods are just sucking hot air and are pretty junk. Yeah the hot air will be a big problem as well for sure. Try to make a setup where the bellmouths go straight to the carbs, I'm not sure what the intent was there with those runners but I know if I tried that on a bike it would make the throttle response super sluggish and do all sorts of weird things to the fueling when you're on the needles.
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Jul 11, 2021 23:16
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Slavvy posted:Who was it that described their bike going into first as being exactly like an M16 bolt slamming forward?
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Jul 12, 2021 00:59
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I can tell when my motorcycle needs oil because shifting into first goes from "James Bond cocking his PPK" to "Russian conscript firing his PTRD-41."Russian Bear posted:Where did you procure such a thing? I made it myself with a CNC vinyl cutter.
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Jul 12, 2021 04:28
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Sagebrush posted:I can tell when my motorcycle needs oil because shifting into first goes from "James Bond cocking his PPK" to "Russian conscript firing his PTRD-41."  incredible imagery, I can even picture your bike drunkenly wobbling.
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Jul 12, 2021 05:51
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Any big traps on a 2013 F6B Gold Wing? Looking casually at an enormous motorcycle. I currently own a carbed FZ1 and a DRZ, and love them both. Feeling something l a r g e these days.
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Jul 12, 2021 08:36
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Do it! When I had Fat Bob for the first time, it felt good to finally have something big between my legs.
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Jul 12, 2021 10:32
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Slavvy posted:Who was it that described their bike going into first as being exactly like an M16 bolt slamming forward? CAN CONFIRM
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Jul 12, 2021 18:38
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I just wanted to sanity check this before I spend money on nothing. A starter motor is supposed to spin freely when off the bike right? For a Suzuki sfv650
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Jul 12, 2021 20:05
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They don't typically smoothly keep spinning after you spin the shaft with your fingers, but you should be able to turn it quite effortlessly. They're brushed motors, some smooth friction (if that makes any sense) is normal.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:26
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e/ nm
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Jul 12, 2021 23:56
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Foxtrot_13 posted:I just wanted to sanity check this before I spend money on nothing. Put a negative jumper lead on the body, positive on the lug, other end to a battery and see if it spins on it's own. It won't freewheel turning it by hand, usually they're somewhat notchy.
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Jul 13, 2021 00:14
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Steakandchips posted:When I had Fat Bob for the first time, it felt good to finally have something big between my legs. quote:Questions Thread: My Fat Bob: Feels good to finally have something big between my legs. New topic?
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Jul 13, 2021 02:09
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Jonny 290 posted:Any big traps on a 2013 F6B Gold Wing? Jonny! Welcome! There aren’t any huge gotchas on a 2013 Goldwing as far as I know. They’re pretty well sorted by this point and Honda has them finely honed. They are a halo bike so to speak for Honda, so big issues with them are pretty drat rare. There are a few of us who own older wings and others who have big fat bobs between their legs as mentioned, so thiccbike appreciation is alive and well here
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Jul 13, 2021 02:41
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Slavvy posted:Put a negative jumper lead on the body, positive on the lug, other end to a battery and see if it spins on it's own. It won't freewheel turning it by hand, usually they're somewhat notchy. It is not moving at all, even when trying to jump it. Time to replace it.
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Jul 13, 2021 23:15
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If all of my clutch action is at the very beginning of the lever throw even with a little slack in the cable that pretty much means it's time for new clutch plates, right?
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Jul 14, 2021 16:32
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Not necessarily. It's time for new clutch plates/discs when you notice it slipping under high power, like say you are accelerating onto the highway and shift up, and as you bring the throttle back in the RPMs hang for a second and you feel a pause in the power delivery. Like, if you're totally unable to feather the clutch at low speed, maybe it needs work done. But the friction zone is a subtle phenomenon and the amount of lever movement needed to disengage the driveline is quite small. When shifting aggressively I can usually just tap the clutch lever with my fingers, and that's properly adjusted with slack and with relatively new plates and stiffer-than-stock springs. Of course you still go to the bar when you're holding it at a standstill because the system is still slipping even if it's not transmitting enough power to move the bike. But most of the important action is in the first few millimeters. If you want to be sure, you can open it up and measure the plate and disc thickness and spring length (don't forget that these wear out too) with a micrometer. There will be specs in the bike's manual that will tell you if they need to be replaced. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jul 14, 2021 |
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Jul 14, 2021 16:44
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Dog Case posted:If all of my clutch action is at the very beginning of the lever throw even with a little slack in the cable that pretty much means it's time for new clutch plates, right? My GN has been the same way since I got it, 22,000 miles ago. The friction point is due to the design of the clutch.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:34
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Dog Case posted:If all of my clutch action is at the very beginning of the lever throw even with a little slack in the cable that pretty much means it's time for new clutch plates, right? What kind of bike? Have you tried adjusting the cable at the engine end first? It sounds like you have a super tight cable. If it isn't slipping under load it isn't the clutch itself.
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Jul 14, 2021 19:40
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F6B sale fell through, guy's a racist rear end in a top hat. Anyways, another question. I want a full set of replacement plastics for my DRZ. Is this something that I can/should piece together from ebay auctions, or should I spend smart and just order from a dealer? The current ones are in fine shape, I'm just doing a sort of boomerjinks movie bike project.
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Jul 18, 2021 01:06
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I’m pretty sure there are also much cheaper aftermarket plastics from acerbis and the like
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Jul 18, 2021 02:51
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Ooh didn't even think of them. thanks!
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Jul 18, 2021 02:54
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