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Kurzon posted:What was Gene's justification for Starfleet not using cloaking tech? I remember reading somewhere that he felt cloaks didn't fit with the Federation's theme of being forthright. Starfleet doesn't sneak around, he said. Forbidden by the diplomatic treaty that stopped the Romulan War, I thought.
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Jul 11, 2021 23:47
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Eimi posted:
Anything that makes one long for ridiculous one-off extravagant silliness of the Enterprise J must be loving terrible, and everything in season 3 of Disco does exactly that.
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Jul 11, 2021 23:54
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Kesper North posted:Forbidden by the diplomatic treaty that stopped the Romulan War, I thought. SMH at Gene for letting the Romulans dictate the terms of his TV show.
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Jul 12, 2021 00:50
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The Treaty of Algeron is one of the dumbest treaties every signed given what it stipulates of the Federation, but I love it because it's exactly the kind of treaty the Federation would have to sign to actually be as moral as they are shown.
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Jul 12, 2021 02:27
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MikeJF posted:A lot of Discovery's original design choices set out under Fuller were setup for the season 2 plot reveal where the outer sections of the saucer come off and the (then) up-angled nacelles are shifted to point down and it's unveiled it was designed to be able to go undercover as a Klingon ship. I can't decide if I love this or if it's the dumbest thing in Star Trek I've ever read
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Jul 12, 2021 02:33
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Guess you didn’t watch Picard with subtitles then.
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Jul 12, 2021 02:51
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This episode of Star Trek DS9 (Season 3 episode 6) has the what the loving christ Jake is like 15 years old and dating a Dabo girl episode which what the loving hell.
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Jul 12, 2021 04:03
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Hollismason posted:This episode of Star Trek DS9 (Season 3 episode 6) has the what the loving christ Jake is like 15 years old and dating a Dabo girl episode which what the loving hell. Maybe you are not woke enough for this utopian future?
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Jul 12, 2021 04:14
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jeeves posted:Maybe you are not woke enough for this utopian future? Its loving weird. Like she is obviously an adult woman dating a 15 year old.
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Jul 12, 2021 04:15
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Hollismason posted:Its loving weird. Like she is obviously an adult woman dating a 15 year old. The actress is actually only two years older than Jake's. But for some reason they decided to write her as a twenty year old. (If you want to be really creeped out - Chase Masterson (Leeta) was originally considered for the part. Avery Brooks, thankfully, vetoed that.)
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Jul 12, 2021 04:49
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Tighclops posted:I can't decide if I love this or if it's the dumbest thing in Star Trek I've ever read It's not any worse than what we got. Kinda wish they did more bullshit experimental things rather than just have the mushroom drive be the only thing.
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Jul 12, 2021 05:28
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like it feels super dumb that would fool the klingons somehow although I'm sure there's a real world maritime equivalent somewhere in history still better than the ftl drive that runs on bdsm war crimes
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Jul 12, 2021 06:39
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Tighclops posted:like it feels super dumb that would fool the klingons somehow although I'm sure there's a real world maritime equivalent somewhere in history
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Jul 12, 2021 09:09
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Eimi posted:The Treaty of Algeron is one of the dumbest treaties every signed given what it stipulates of the Federation, but I love it because it's exactly the kind of treaty the Federation would have to sign to actually be as moral as they are shown.
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Jul 12, 2021 09:19
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Tighclops posted:like it feels super dumb that would fool the klingons somehow although I'm sure there's a real world maritime equivalent somewhere in history Part of the setup of Disco is that the Klingon empire is heavily fragmented into the different houses and there's no central authority or navy and they probably all have their own design variations and stuff so that'd help if that was part of it back then. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Jul 12, 2021 |
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Jul 12, 2021 10:01
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Kurzon posted:It's not unrealistic. Many countries have agreed not to develop nuclear weapons. Having looked it up it's a treaty that was signed 100 years after the Earth-Romulan war (which Starfleet won) to formalise the Neutral Zone. So the context is that the Romulans lose a war, sulk for 100 years and refuse to talk, then when they finally come out to negotiate a treaty the Federation is all 'you agree to stay behind your border and all you want from us is to agree not to mess about with this technology that nobody on our side has found anything interesting to do with in a century? Sure we can do that. Gosh you've really got us over a barrel there!'
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Jul 12, 2021 10:21
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Tighclops posted:like it feels super dumb that would fool the klingons somehow although I'm sure there's a real world maritime equivalent somewhere in history Spock took the Enterprise into the heart of Klingon space with nothing but the 23rd century equivalent of Google translate, a Starfleet ship painted brown and with no saucer could probably park in Kronos orbit and not be noticed for like a week
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Jul 12, 2021 10:38
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Alchenar posted:So the context is that the Romulans lose a war, sulk for 100 years and refuse to talk, then when they finally come out to negotiate a treaty the Federation is all 'you agree to stay behind your border and all you want from us is to agree not to mess about with this technology that nobody on our side has found anything interesting to do with in a century? Sure we can do that. Gosh you've really got us over a barrel there!'
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Jul 12, 2021 11:28
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I mean the shape would be a lot more important than the colour or visual appearance because most of the time you'd only be showing up on sensors anyway. You'd have to be absurdly close to another spaceship to see it with your eyes if you weren't in orbit or otherwise deliberately getting close up.
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Jul 12, 2021 11:35
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Well according to Fuller that was the reason that (his) Discovery was built with things like, for example, rectangular nacelles and a different kind of hull surfacing while the rest of Starfleet we would have seen were built with circular nacelles and more TOS-look. (Obviously under Kurtz they threw all that out and just had a new different style that all starfleet ships used) They experimented with stuff like having similar gaps in nacelles to earlier klingon ships from ENT   MikeJF fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Jul 12, 2021 |
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Jul 12, 2021 11:51
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Personally I will always find the simple cylindrical nacelle of TOS to be the most charming.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:44
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I like the big red glowy bits on the front of the Ent-D's nacelles. They really sell them as weak points so that when another ship collides with one of them it causes the entire ship to catastrophically explode.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:50
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Alchenar posted:Having looked it up it's a treaty that was signed 100 years after the Earth-Romulan war (which Starfleet won) to formalise the Neutral Zone.
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Jul 12, 2021 18:16
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Brawnfire posted:Personally I will always find the simple cylindrical nacelle of TOS to be the most charming. Yeah, the round nacelles are great. I don't like the more modern angular ones. I also loved the updated Konnie ones, the spinning bussard collectors were a great touch.
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Jul 12, 2021 19:29
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Seemlar posted:Spock took the Enterprise into the heart of Klingon space with nothing but the 23rd century equivalent of Google translate, a Starfleet ship painted brown and with no saucer could probably park in Kronos orbit and not be noticed for like a week Federation aren't the only humanoids, or even the only humans, that have access to the Klingon space and Kronos. It is not a closed planet since they have embassies and stuff. It wouldn't need to look like Klingon warbird, just looking like not-Federation would be enough to pull off that stunt.
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Jul 12, 2021 19:30
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Wouldn't it be easier to just clone a Klingon design? Or acquire a Klingon ship through presumably many possible avenues?
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Jul 12, 2021 19:36
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Well, yes. Or from someone other than Klingons like Orion pirates, who have most likely relatively unrestricted access to the sector since they have an embassy and run a marketplace there. This would also ensure that there is zero chance that the ship shows up non-registered, stolen or missing if someone with high enough security clearance decides to scan it against the known Klingon warship registry.
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Jul 12, 2021 19:44
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Kurzon posted:The thing is that since the Treaty of Algeron the Romulans cause a lot of problems for the Federation that would have justified abandoning the treaty, like the time they tried to sneak an invasion force onto Vulcan, and that time Shinzon tried to nuke Earth. The treaty is not working anymore, the Romulans don't respect the peace. To be fair, the Federation have at least the Pegasus and the Defiant with cloaks. Although I guess the latter started out with a romulan on board to make sure it was above board. And probably a couple of extra secret projects, including some borrowed Klingon ships from when they were allies.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:06
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Let's be honest: Riker would gently caress Quark's mom and they'd both enjoy it.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:08
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Arglebargle III posted:Let's be honest: Riker would gently caress Quark's mom and they'd both enjoy it. Quarks mom is awesome. Riker is great. Count me in!
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Jul 12, 2021 20:12
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Sash! posted:Wouldn't it be easier to just clone a Klingon design? Or acquire a Klingon ship through presumably many possible avenues?
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Jul 12, 2021 20:35
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BonHair posted:Quarks mom is awesome. Riker is great. Count me in! You wanna be third, you mean?
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Jul 12, 2021 20:41
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Kurzon posted:There was a 3rd season TOS episode where the Enterprise runs into Romulan ships that resembled Klingon ones. Appranetly, this was not done due to budget cuts, it was because the producers wanted to get more use out of the Klingon ship models because they had put a lot of money into them. This also became part of the lore and is observable for example in the Starfleet Command -games; To kickstart the modernization of their fleet designs Romulan's bought surplus ships from the Klingons and retrofitted them with their own stuff. So yeah, the D7 birds got around, like those excess carriers from the WW2 and Cold war. The recommisioned bird of prey we see in PIC is from the development line that was abandoned, and the D'deridex is the new design they came up with while in isolation.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:46
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Brawnfire posted:You wanna be third, you mean? Third of five
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Jul 12, 2021 20:47
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McSpanky posted:Third of five Hugh dog, you
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Jul 12, 2021 20:52
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McSpanky posted:Third of five Heck yeah, get me some of that XB poontang, and throw in a sex candle ghost.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:54
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Kurzon posted:The thing is that since the Treaty of Algeron the Romulans cause a lot of problems for the Federation that would have justified abandoning the treaty, like the time they tried to sneak an invasion force onto Vulcan, and that time Shinzon tried to nuke Earth. The treaty is not working anymore, the Romulans don't respect the peace. To be fair, Shinzon did not represent the legitimate government of Romulus. He didn't even represent the Romulan people in an unofficial or even provisional capacity. As a comparison, holding the Romulan Empire accountable for Shinzon's actions would be a little bit like holding France accountable for actions undertaken by Haiti. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jul 12, 2021 |
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Jul 12, 2021 21:03
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I'm 8 of 9... right after the salt vampire. 
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Jul 12, 2021 21:11
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Kurzon posted:The thing is that since the Treaty of Algeron the Romulans cause a lot of problems for the Federation that would have justified abandoning the treaty, like the time they tried to sneak an invasion force onto Vulcan, and that time Shinzon tried to nuke Earth. The treaty is not working anymore, the Romulans don't respect the peace. That's hard though. Like, sure, on the one hand the Romulans try starting a lot of poo poo in TNG. On the other hand, a hot war would be catastrophic. Does scrapping the treaty and putting cloaks on Fed ships actually make them more secure? Kurzon posted:There was a 3rd season TOS episode where the Enterprise runs into Romulan ships that resembled Klingon ones. Appranetly, this was not done due to budget cuts, it was because the producers wanted to get more use out of the Klingon ship models because they had put a lot of money into them. Well, that and the original Romulan ship model had been destroyed when the racists in the prop makers' union blacklisted Wah Chang. Der Kyhe posted:This also became part of the lore and is observable for example in the Starfleet Command -games; To kickstart the modernization of their fleet designs Romulan's bought surplus ships from the Klingons and retrofitted them with their own stuff. So yeah, the D7 birds got around, like those excess carriers from the WW2 and Cold war. Farmer Crack-rear end posted:"Here are some recent long-range scans of Klingon fleet bases at Qo'nos and Beta Thoridar. That's where the Klingons have got their old D7 reserve fleet, in dock there. But each week, there're fewer, because they're selling 'em off like hotcakes to the Tholians, the Orions, and others."
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Jul 12, 2021 21:17
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I think with Disco and Klingon infiltration they were going to be leaning on the "Klingon empire is fragmented and has no central navy and many design variants" thing and also the "Klingon empire has been quite isolationist during this period"
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Jul 12, 2021 21:49
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