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Happy Noodle Boy posted:We just had an article or post not long ago of people buying a plug-in hyrbrid or ev and being shocked that… they had to plug it in to charge. You severely overestimate the general population when it comes to buying car if you think people actually spend as much time as you think they should when it comes to something like buying a car. That's a fair point. Happy Noodle Boy posted:Most of your points are the exception, not the norm. I don't think that's the case. Can you be more specific? Happy Noodle Boy posted:Even your 2-9 week delivery window still caps out at over 2 months when arguing that delivery doesn’t generally takes 2-5 months. I wasn't claim that the wait times shouldn't be better. What I said was that "2-5 months" was not my experience, that I didn't know what a typical wait time was, and that a bit of internet sleuthing turned up "2-9 weeks". I agree that 9 weeks (2.25 months) is a long time to wait for a purchase. I don't agree that "2-5 months" is an accurate description of "2 to 9 weeks" (0.5 to 2.25 months), except in the sense that their respective upper and lower bounds overlap. It's possible I misinterpreted the original comment; to me it sounded like a statement of fact (e.g. "you will wait 2-5 months", which I disagree with) rather than a vague assertion about wait times being longer than they should be (which I agree with). Happy Noodle Boy posted:It’s still a sometimes months long affair. Agreed. Happy Noodle Boy posted:Though this is probably almost entirely depending on regional constraints more than actually manufacturing issues especially now that a lot of the pandemic relating setbacks are starting to phase out / clear up. I can't comment on regional constraints. The chip shortages affecting automobile manufacturers (including Tesla) are not just because of COVID-19 and are projected to last until 2022. Happy Noodle Boy posted:At least here in Ohio availability (if you don’t go by inventory, of which there’s no new within 200 miles) the websites states 8-12 weeks for M3 and Sept-Oct for Model S That's a fair point. It's certainly possible that some of the wild variance we've seen in delivery times are due to regional differences. For reference, I live in Falls Church, VA, and there is a Tesla showroom and service center about 10 minutes from here, 4 Superchargers within a 10 mile radius, and a bunch of free public chargers. So it's entirely possible that Tesla is prioritizing deliveries in my area over Ohio.
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Jul 12, 2021 16:37
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I can guarantee you everyone is prioritizing everywhere else over Ohio
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Jul 12, 2021 16:39
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mattfl posted:Don't even join the Tesla FB groups, that was mistake. Noted. I don't have a Facebook account (for reasons that aren't relevant to this thread), but thanks for the advice anyway. One time when I was at the Springfield Supercharger a guy walked up and handed me a business card for a Northern Virginia Tesla group. I didn't follow up on it because the only contact information on the card was a Facebook group, but it sounds like my social media obstinance served as an effective filter (yet again!).
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Jul 12, 2021 16:46
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:I can guarantee you everyone is prioritizing everywhere else over Ohio truly it is right and just
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Jul 12, 2021 16:46
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I was thinking about a Tesla, but now that I know people will be waving at me I’m not so sure
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Jul 12, 2021 16:54
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i'll be lucky if f150 diehards won't try to run me off the road once they notice the lightning badging
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Jul 12, 2021 16:56
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I really wish there was a way to exclude chargers at auto dealers from plugshare.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:00
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Dear Watson posted:I was thinking about a Tesla, but now that I know people will be waving at me I’m not so sure There are a lot of Teslas in this area, so I don't think the waving really happens any more. That said, I still get questions and comments from random people. Most of the questions are just general curiosity: "how long does it take to charge?" (I usually try to explain this different charger types, which is almost certainly the wrong answer), variations of "how do you charge it?" (I just tell folks I can literally plug it in to the wall like my cell phone), "can you go on long trips?" (yes, I've done it), "how much range does it have?", etc. The comments are usually positive. Yesterday at the McDonalds drive-through the lady at the window jokingly said that they would trade McDonalds food for my car. I laughed and said I wasn't sure that was a good deal. Anyway, my point is that you will probably get some questions or comments. If that's something you don't want to deal with, then another brand with less public recognition might be a better fit.
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Jul 12, 2021 17:14
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Pham Nuwen posted:I'd say I resent this, but nah you're right, they (we...) belong in that list. Movie or OS?
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Jul 12, 2021 17:16
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mobby_6kl posted:Movie or OS? OS. The phrase "sad devotion to that ancient religion" tends to spring to mind when interacting with Plan 9 people... which brings us right back around to the Jeep wave
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Jul 12, 2021 17:30
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Just to clarify the inventory aspect of it: Other than rejected on delivery cars and used cars, there is no "inventory" of cars at a Tesla store. Every quarter, they go through a distance based delivery cycle. Deliveries that are further away (I can't remember if Fremont makes ROW cars anymore, so we'll just assume they make NA cars for this example) get matched first to a VIN in the quarter. As the quarter goes on, deliveries will slowly start to creep westward across the US and Canada, as there's now less risk of a specific car delay slipping into next quarter. As you get right to the end of the quarter, shipping methods turn from train into truck, and truck into "come pick it up at Fremont if you live within 50 miles" and that's how you get that mad dash of everyone who's an employee helping to hand over cars so they can meet quarter goals. Depending on where you order in the quarter and where you live is the biggest indicator of wait time (as well as how they're doing on selling out the next quarter's worth of cars). Rumor is that Q3 has already been sold through, so for example, if I (who lives in California) wanted to buy a Model Y right now, I likely wouldn't take delivery until November or December.
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Jul 12, 2021 18:18
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Orvin posted:If you really need a people mover, and have the space to keep your model 3, why are you compromising on the people mover? Just buy the forum favorite Odyssey and be happy with all the family friendly features it has. I would like to stay electric as much as possible, and currently the Pacifica is the only plug-in option other than Tesla. It seems nice otherwise, but as someone pointed out, Chrysler.  I don’t follow AI frequently outside of this thread. Is there a particular thread or post anyone knows off-hand which explains why the Odyssey is the forum favorite? I’ve watched Demuro’s review, and it seems nice, but it doesn’t seem to have anything distinguishing besides being a Honda. (Which certainly counts for a lot.) The Kia Carnival seems nice too. Occasionally I have to nap in my car, and that second row is  .(I apologize for derailing into minivan chat.)
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Jul 12, 2021 19:35
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The Hyundai Tucson plug-in arrives next month, I think, and it seems like a really formidable competitor to the Rav Prime. It's more affordable and the infotainment/interior UI is a lot better. It even has a similar exterior cut as the Rav. If the Ioniq is out of my price range at the base level, I will probably lease a plugin Tucson for 2 years.
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Jul 12, 2021 19:43
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MrPablo posted:There are a lot of Teslas in this area, so I don't think the waving really happens any more. That said, I still get questions and comments from random people. Probably isn't even Tesla specific, I get those questions all the time with my Bolt
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Jul 12, 2021 19:45
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:Probably isn't even Tesla specific, I get those questions all the time with my Bolt I've gotten them with my Ioniq as well.
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Jul 12, 2021 20:35
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Lol I always at least smile at people driving the same car as me, sometimes a wave. I'd get the occasional volt driver to wave back. The flashing lights and thumbs up seems like too much though. I also crouch down and wave at people's sentry mode cameras if I see them activate. Y'all don't know how to have fun, smh!
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Jul 12, 2021 21:05
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I wave like an idiot at any EV I recognize. That one guy in the Mach E was not amused. The way I look at it, you probably spent a fair amount of time researching, and a fair amount of money paying for, your car. And it's electric, that's cool. I'm happy for you and waving is a chance for you to express you're also happy. We bought a leaf as our second car as a result of my proclivity for chatting up total strangers at chargers. 
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Jul 12, 2021 21:37
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I mean I'm a person who really values their solitude but like I appreciate people showing an interest in my stuff and I'm happy to answer their questions or chat with them about EV's
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Jul 12, 2021 21:47
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Aino Minako posted:I would like to stay electric as much as possible, and currently the Pacifica is the only plug-in option other than Tesla. It seems nice otherwise, but as someone pointed out, Chrysler. The BFC car buying thread is where I got a lot of my info from. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3213538 I haven’t really been following the thread since we got the Odyssey last year, but I can’t imagine much has changed. Until you give the thread regulars more detail, the standards responses are Prius or Odyssey. Fill in your wants/needs and budget, and they can give pretty good suggestions.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:13
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I get excited when I spot another Spark EV, but I don't wave or interact with them at all. One time at a public charger a guy in his brand new tesla asked me for help plugging in (I told him he probably had a J1772 adapter in the charging bag) and this guy in a leaf ran over because he wanted an impromptu EV club meetup. Now my wife keeps me in check with the phrase "don't be leafguy". People seek community in brands/media franchises because people require it, churches destroyed community-based social clubs, and younger generations are less interested in church than ever. There is a real void that brands are very willing to fill, and the result is less people joining bowling leagues and more people jumping on mcdonald's counters making a scene about sweet and sour sauce.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:20
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Aino Minako posted:I would like to stay electric as much as possible, and currently the Pacifica is the only plug-in option other than Tesla. It seems nice otherwise, but as someone pointed out, Chrysler. The Pacifica has been out for years, and by all accounts seems to be a pretty solid vehicle without any significant defects. WRT the Odyssey, it's a solid, low-maintenance reliable hauler. Most people prefer it or the Pacifica over the Sienna, but they're all pretty close and you need to drive them to see which fits you best. I haven't seem much about the Carnival. As the Sedona, it was generally considered a fine car but a cut below the above three.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:37
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It's a running joke with my girlfriend and I that I run customer support on all the (non-Tesla) chargers we stop at. There's always someone who unfurls their own Type 2 cable, or searches for where to swipe the credit card, or tries to use the CCS while I'm using the CHAdeMO on a 50 kW, etc etc. Mostly I can help, but last time I couldn't, the charging station would just not work with a Leaf driven by an old couple who were actually well prepared with tons of RFID chips etc. The problem isn't EVs, it's the charging infrastructure. I too would be in deep poo poo trying to drive on gas from A to B in 1890, having to wait for a pharmacy to open etc.
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Jul 12, 2021 22:39
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MrPablo posted:There are a lot of Teslas in this area, so I don't think the waving really happens any more. That said, I still get questions and comments from random people. I get all these same questions and I am also happy to answer them, but they are so common it almost makes me want to print and carry around pamphlets or cards with a quick summary of them. Tesla is the most visible brand, but they don't advertise so among the general public going about their lives there is a real lack of information about them (and what little does go around is often wrong or outdated). One thing I try to emphasize when people ask "how long does it take to charge?" is that for the most part charging time doesn't matter for a daily driver. I have had my EV for about a year, it is at about 4000 miles and I have spent exactly zero seconds waiting for it to charge. I try to get people out of the ICE mindset where you go somewhere to fill up the car, and try to get them to think of it like their cell phone where you plug it in at the end of the day and it is ready to go the next day. I have had someone at work ask me "It really doesn't use any gas?". Right now the public just generally doesn't know squat about EVs.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:21
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cruft posted:I wave like an idiot at any EV I recognize. That one guy in the Mach E was not amused. Lol yeah, same tbh. I'll smile and wave at basically any EV I see. They're friends!  Just passed a Kona EV in a parking lot, we both smiled real big at each other as we passed by.
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Jul 12, 2021 23:55
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One of the fun things about driving an EV that most people don’t know is an EV (Niro EV) is surprising drivers in ‘performance’ cars with the acceleration (yeah, I know 0 to 60 in 6 seconds isn’t that big of a deal). I like the stealth nature of this.
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Jul 13, 2021 01:04
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No I completely agree, that's one of the things keeping me deciding between an occasional I-Pace and a financed Model 3. There's nothing gasoline burning that's anywhere close within my reach doing the same performance.
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Jul 13, 2021 01:17
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VideoGameVet posted:One of the fun things about driving an EV that most people don’t know is an EV (Niro EV) is surprising drivers in ‘performance’ cars with the acceleration (yeah, I know 0 to 60 in 6 seconds isn’t that big of a deal). We got the leaf for my teenage daughter, not realizing it accelerates like a Jag. It's been difficult trying to explain that not every car accelerates like a bat out of hell, and she needs to learn how to negotiate with other drivers instead of just floor it.
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Jul 13, 2021 03:41
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cruft posted:We got the leaf for my teenage daughter, not realizing it accelerates like a Jag. It's been difficult trying to explain that not every car accelerates like a bat out of hell, and she needs to learn how to negotiate with other drivers instead of just floor it. Seems like she's got the hang of driving.
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Jul 13, 2021 03:46
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MrPablo posted:I agree that Tesla should improve their build quality, but I disagree with just about everything else in your comment: I’m genuinely impressed that you got your car so fast. Maybe the popularity has scaled faster than manufacturing capability in the meantime. I ordered on May 15 and my current estimated delivery is in August/September. Some people in the local Tesla Facebook group (  ) are still waiting for their April orders, and one of them had their VIN pulled at the end of the quarter (since the car wouldn’t get here in time) so they’re back to October. The assumption is they’ll get a car by EOQ, but that’s still 5 months, maybe 4 if they get one sooner. Now, if you’re buying a performance 3 or Y, the experience can still be much closer to what you described.I absolutely agree with you on the preference to never go into a dealership again, but your parents seem less Boomer-y than mine. Mine would see obvious gaps but are unlikely to notice things like windshield wipers rubbing the frunk hood, rear seat misalignment, etc. Maybe they’d never care about that sort of thing; maybe that’s how their Hondas all are, and that brand has still managed to sell them 6 or 7 cars in a row now. A sidestep to “improve the online buying-and-waiting experience” could be for Tesla to improve their showroom experience. It’s currently geared toward me: I knew what I wanted to drive, set up a time, drove it, and asked the handful of questions that I hadn’t already researched the answer to. When (going back to this comparison) my parents buy a car, they go to the brand dealership that they’ve heard the best reviews of lately, and say things like “I want another van but I don’t need a huge van” (so they bought a CR-V) or “I don’t need anything too fast but it can’t be big” (Civic sedan). I’m sure the right person at Tesla would be fine with helping them through that translation especially with only 4 models, but if it happened to be at the end of the quarter it seems more likely that they’d get a few facts thrown at them and maybe an overnight test drive with minimal instruction. I’ll say my experience test driving a Mach-E was not a lot different, so this isn’t a Tesla-only problem. I got passed around between a half dozen salespeople my age or older at multiple dealerships, before finding a guy in his mid-20s who knew enough about the thing (or was willing to learn it) to actually set up a test drive and answer a couple of basic questions about the order process. The order options were “wait 24-30 weeks for an order or maybe we’ll get one in stock toward the end of the year.” It’s completely logical that EV buying is meant to be comfortable for someone about where I am in life: young enough to want an iPhone that goes on the highway, and old enough to afford one. If EVs are going to reach real mainstream adoption, especially in brands other than Tesla, they’re also going to have to cater to Boomers, country bumpkins, Gen X parents buying their kid a first car, the technologically illiterate, and (frankly) people who don’t have the skill set to make an EV decision on their own wits.
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Jul 13, 2021 03:52
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cruft posted:We got the leaf for my teenage daughter, not realizing it accelerates like a Jag. It's been difficult trying to explain that not every car accelerates like a bat out of hell, and she needs to learn how to negotiate with other drivers instead of just floor it. Does it though? I know the Plus is much more powerful but the basic 40kwh version isn't exactly quick and the first gen is what could be described as 'sedate'.
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Jul 13, 2021 05:22
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Motortrend says the big battery does 0-60 in 6 seconds: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2019-nissan-leaf-plus-first-test-review/ (edit: oops I can't read, 6.5 seconds) I have a Leaf Plus and it being zippy was the first thing I noticed, not that I drove anything fancier than Camry-equivalents previously. I have Eco mode on pretty much all the time though which makes it feel a tad less perky
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Jul 13, 2021 05:47
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Deteriorata posted:The Pacifica has been out for years, and by all accounts seems to be a pretty solid vehicle without any significant defects. The Odyssey probably differs with things like how the seats stow away or if they have that little push-function for the 2nd row that moves a set towards the middle. And Honda-Sensing for driving assist.
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Jul 13, 2021 06:19
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dissss posted:Does it though? It's twice as fast as the land yacht I drove when I was her age.
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Jul 13, 2021 06:20
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It's also not just about the 0-60 times. The 0-30 times can be seriously impressive even in low end EVs and those are way more relevant in city driving.
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Jul 13, 2021 07:07
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And not to mention the throttle response. In the Leaf, it feels like what you want to do happens at the same time as you think it, compared to most cars where it feels like you're writing a letter with a request for more speed.
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Jul 13, 2021 09:19
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Ola posted:And not to mention the throttle response. In the Leaf, it feels like what you want to do happens at the same time as you think it, compared to most cars where it feels like you're writing a letter with a request for more speed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxKZFg7UpWg&t=19s Particularly sluggish cars have to send runners from the bridge to the engine room.
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Jul 13, 2021 13:02
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cruft posted:It's twice as fast as the land yacht I drove when I was her age. I was watching a RCR recently and I found the stats on the car funny: 180HP 245 lb/ft '83 Hurst/olds - 4.0L V8 200HP 266 lb/ft Chevy Bolt an "economy" EV is pushing performance cars from the 80's easy.
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Jul 13, 2021 13:54
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Ola posted:And not to mention the throttle response. In the Leaf, it feels like what you want to do happens at the same time as you think it, compared to most cars where it feels like you're writing a letter with a request for more speed. 
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Jul 13, 2021 14:31
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I will be a bit contrarian and say that I don't particularly care for the EV power curve or throttle response at least on my dad's EV Kona. I rarely want to accelerate extremely quickly in town, and then by the time you get in to the 50-80 mph part of the powerband there's a lot less power available. It's basically set up for opposite performance from what I actually want. edit: sonic dude your problem is probably mostly related to driving a Rogue
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Jul 13, 2021 14:35
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This is why you need a 2-speed gearbox to be considered a performance EV.
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Jul 13, 2021 15:07
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