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Kesper North posted:Don't follow the arrows, only noobs follow the arrows. Pop into the Jeffries Tube and follow the scent of weed to Lower Decks. Where's those blinking dots that show Riker how to get to the bridge in Encounter At Far Point?
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Jul 14, 2021 04:32
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Brawnfire posted:They should have destroyed the mobile emitter and any other technology and data from the future to avoid timeline corruption Yeah you really don't want a visit from Temporal Investigations
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Jul 14, 2021 04:39
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nine-gear crow posted:I'd rather stick my hand in a blender and drink the aftermath as a smoothie, but thank you regardless. Perhaps you'd rather put your hand in some scalding hot Xelayan soup
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Jul 14, 2021 04:41
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Marx Headroom posted:Yeah you really don't want a visit from Temporal Investigations Not gonna lie, I'd have but I would have busted a loving gut in the Temporal Investigations dudes just showed up on Voyager at the end of Future's End, Part II with no explanation of how they got there. It aired literally the week after Trials and Tribble-ations, so they were basically filming at the same time.
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Jul 14, 2021 04:59
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"We're in the Delta Quadrant! Nearly a century at warp from the Federation! How are you here?" "Oh wow, distance, how intimidating. Volumetric space, oh no, what'll I do?!? And don't talk about centuries, you don't know poo poo about centuries."
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Jul 14, 2021 05:03
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Marx Headroom posted:freedom and self determination in the Federation is not a fundamental right but a privilege granted by the elite apparently I mean, I get pissed off when the autocorrect on my phone fixes something that's already right. I'm with Janeway here. I think if my word processing program decided it wanted to run off and become an actor or something, I'd put a stop to it too.
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Jul 14, 2021 05:05
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Timby posted:Star Trek 4 is alive once again, this time to be directed by Matt Shakman (WandaVision) from a script by Lindsey Beer and Geneva Robertson, the latter of whom wrote Captain Marvel and the semi-recent Tomb Raider reboot. Booo. Bring back Justin Lin
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Jul 14, 2021 05:55
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A better idea: Star Trek IV, directed by DAVID CRONENBERG.
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Jul 14, 2021 05:57
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Terror Sweat posted:Booo. Bring back Justin Lin He's busy filming Fast 10 and Fast 11 back to back right now.
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Jul 14, 2021 06:01
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They should at least let Simon Pegg write again.
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Jul 14, 2021 06:07
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Brawnfire posted:Perhaps you'd rather put your hand in some scalding hot Xelayan soup That was an incredible scene. It went from neighbors having dinner to Cape Fear in nothing flat. One moment it's a quiet dinner, then you're not sure you heard the actor right, then you think he's joking, then he has a gun and there is no question of joking whatsoever. Really sharp script writing, backed up by good direction, and excellent acting. TNG, TOS, DS9, and even Voyager have matched that scene's quality. Enterprise, Picard and Discovery haven't and probably never will at this rate (Picard with a new creative team might). Lower Decks... give it time, they might get there.
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Jul 14, 2021 06:12
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blastron posted:The Doctor is not just part of the Federation but also part of Starfleet, which is a military(-esque) organization. Every instance on Voyager we've seen where someone leaves the ship, they get permission from the captain, either because they asked personally or because the crew is given blanket permission due to finding some particularly comfy M-class planet. Janeway is exactly within her rights as commanding officer to refuse a crew member's request, especially one from a crucial crewmember like the only doctor on the ship. I mean... I dunno. Modern militaries aren't really slaver operations. The navy doesn't press-gang people into service. The EMH raises all kinds of moral questions that Voyager's writers really were not talented enough to handle at all. The argument that the doctor works for the "military" might hold water if he existed as something else before he was the EMH and willingly signed up for service, but he didn't. He was created as a tool and turned out to be a sentient being. The ethics behind Janeway's power over him are super questionable and Voyager never even attempts to resolve those questions in a satisfying way.
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Jul 14, 2021 06:48
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Marx Headroom posted:My fav Doc/Janeway interaction is when he wants to leave and become an opera singer and she says He has a fundamental right to the mobile emitter. If the government pays for an artificial heart, they don't get to ask for it back when you leave government service. I think the same principal applies here.
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Jul 14, 2021 08:39
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V-Men posted:He has a fundamental right to the mobile emitter. If the government pays for an artificial heart, they don't get to ask for it back when you leave government service. I think the same principal applies here. Picard: If you won't help the Romulans, then eat a dick! I'm resigning! Clancy: Great! Just be sure to pop on by sickbay on your way out the door. That artificial heart of yours is property of Starfleet. Picard: 
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Jul 14, 2021 09:38
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Paradoxish posted:I mean... I dunno. Modern militaries aren't really slaver operations. The navy doesn't press-gang people into service. And AI assistance system isn't a slave and the EMH was not press-ganged into service. He became sentient after being online for so long time and started his life immediately as a chief medical officer. Regardless of his origin the EMH is a chief medical officer on a ship that is stranded across the galaxy on a tour of duty. The captain has full right of requiring him on doing his duty, since he is also the only medical officer on the ship. If he is a construct and owned by the Starfleet, he is sentient AI unwilling to do his part of the work, and needs to be set some limits. If he is considered to become a person the moment he became sentient, he is still senior ship officer who wants to abandon his post in the middle of the tour regardless of how he got there. On both scenarios the captain is in full right to say 'no' to the requests of becoming an opera singer instead of doctor, as the commander overseeing the safety of the ship's all inhabitants. If EMH wants to become an opera singer after getting back home from the tour, that's not up to Janeway to decide, but during the tour and return to home-mission it is.
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Jul 14, 2021 09:57
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Just give Tarantino his Star Trek film.
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Jul 14, 2021 10:11
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Gonz posted:A better idea: Star Trek IV, directed by DAVID CRONENBERG. Or his son, give me Star Trek shot like POSSESSOR
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Jul 14, 2021 12:51
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Eimi posted:They should at least let Simon Pegg write again. All of the stuff between the crew was good, but everything involving the villain was not
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Jul 14, 2021 13:01
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We see Starfleet officers resign their commission at the drop of a hat and nobody says anything about contractual obligations to remain. If 'Measure of a Man' became some sort of legal precedent, then the Doctor would have the same rights as Data. Even though the EMH was literally purchased and owned by Starfleet, if you meet all the standards Data met, you have enough standing to leave.
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Jul 14, 2021 13:03
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FlamingLiberal posted:Ehhh…Beyond’s script had a lot of issues Yeah, but it's pretty well known that the script was incredibly rushed because of Paramount pulling them in at the last second after dumping Orci's and then requiring a 50th anniversary release, and so and didn't have the usual polish time a movie script would get, so I'd be inclined to give them a chance.
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Jul 14, 2021 13:05
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MikeJF posted:Yeah, but it's pretty well known that the script was incredibly rushed because of Paramount pulling them in at the last second after dumping Orci's and then requiring a 50th anniversary release, and so and didn't have the usual polish time a movie script would get, so I'd be inclined to give them a chance. It wasn't just rushed, wasn't Pegg brought in to writing after it was already finished and they had a small amount of time to do massive rewrites?
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Jul 14, 2021 13:07
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nine-gear crow posted:Picard: If you won't help the Romulans, then eat a dick! I'm resigning! A Nausicaan in scrubs grins darkly at Picard
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Jul 14, 2021 13:10
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Alchenar posted:Just give Tarantino his Star Trek film. No thanks
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Jul 14, 2021 13:54
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V-Men posted:We see Starfleet officers resign their commission at the drop of a hat and nobody says anything about contractual obligations to remain. Typically not while marooned light-years from Starfleet with no reasonable ability to replace them. If there were another person capable of being the chief medical officer, they wouldn't be relying on the hologram in the first place. Probably would've made sense to start training someone as soon as the series began, but 
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Jul 14, 2021 14:14
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Big Mean Jerk posted:No thanks
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Jul 14, 2021 14:53
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nine-gear crow posted:I'd rather stick my hand in a blender and drink the aftermath as a smoothie, but thank you regardless. 1) Orville is good. 2) Mercer really isn't an rear end in a top hat captain. He is more like Team Big Dad Energy.
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Jul 14, 2021 15:19
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Watched a Voyager episode between Neelix/Tuvok last night, it was sweet I suppose. Tuvok got a brain injury or scifi equivalent that messed with his personality, he enjoyed having fun, emotions, and hanging out with Neelix. Little odd they never seemed to bring up that time they were one person together, but maybe that's a bit heavy given his condition. Tuvok's actor got to make some new faces, always kind of feel bad for the vulcan actors. Making stern face all day at work can't put you in the best mood. Obviously no one on board can tolerate that much Neelix-tolerance, so they're all in a hurry to fix Tuvok and get Neelix out of the episode already. I think Janeway decides to merk them both, to be safe, or maybe as a joke, but at the last moment Tuvok starts being old tuvok again and Janeway pockets her length of piano wire.
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Jul 14, 2021 17:08
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Mooseontheloose posted:1) Orville is good. Yes. For example Mercer's reaction to the "well technically it is not a whale..."-speech is pretty much spot on and the way any of the other captains besides Picard would react. I think since he is able to pass as a "just get it done"-captain he probably is a saint in his home.
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Jul 14, 2021 17:51
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V-Men posted:It wasn't just rushed, wasn't Pegg brought in to writing after it was already finished and they had a small amount of time to do massive rewrites? Orci and his bobos Payne and McKay submitted their script. It was absolutely terrible, so terrible that it got them all summarily fired (and remember, Orci was going to direct). In a panic, Paramount approached Pegg and asked if he could come up with something, so Pegg and his writing partner Doug Jung had literally about a month (the same amount of time that David Loughery had to write The Final Frontier) to come up with an entirely new script. Beyond wasn't a rewrite of the Orci / Payne / McKay script, it was literally an entirely new thing. Pegg said that he and Jung never even read it. There was some confusion over this, because the first teaser had a credit of "Written by Pegg & Jung and Orci & Payne & McKay." Pegg and Jung won WGA arbitration to get the sole writing credits when the movie was released, though. Orci retained an executive producer credit because of a contractual obligation. Timby fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jul 14, 2021 |
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Jul 14, 2021 21:28
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They had to do a fair bit of fixing in pickup as well, if I recall. Shohreh Aghdashloo's character was added then.
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Jul 14, 2021 21:48
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MikeJF posted:They had to do a fair bit of fixing in pickup as well, if I recall. Shohreh Aghdashloo's character was added then. Yeah, she spent two days on-set because Justin Lin felt--and he was right--that the movie needed a little more connective tissue. The re-shoots weren't extensive, though; I think they only spent five or six days doing pickups and new scenes, which is pretty standard for any movie.
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Jul 14, 2021 22:17
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V-Men posted:If 'Measure of a Man' became some sort of legal precedent, then the Doctor would have the same rights as Data. Even though the EMH was literally purchased and owned by Starfleet, if you meet all the standards Data met, you have enough standing to leave. Measure of a Man does not apply here, since it wasn't about Data deciding to retire or become useless, it was about if the machine-based lifeforms have agency or not on their own future and if they are treated as a species. Data went through the Starfleet academy, EMH was a purpose-built AI that was used longer than what was intended. Based on the rulings in the Measure of a Man, the EMH clearly has agency on his life since he is sentient AI meant to replace a senior officer on an emergency, and he still is an officer (or if treated as a person a field-promoted officer) who decides to ditch his post on a ship-endangering situation. If he was a hospitality hologram on the civilian rank, he could have been given some leeway. But he was a standing Chief Medical Officer on a situation where his knowledge was irreplaceable, so obviously the captain has the right to say no. Had they been in Federation space, he could have uploaded to some star base mainframe and become a successful holodeck/recreational area entertainer, while the ship just calls in for a new CMO. But on the situation the Voyager was in, that was not an option and Janeway had all the right to say no. But as mentioned above, maybe transfer one or two of the ensigns to the medical track, and field promote the most suitable person to an acting lieutenant under training by the EMH the moment they understood their situation. EDIT: Actually having few understudies from the ensigns/non-commissioned officers showing some acceptable capability as medical officers would have made this more interesting and worthwhile discussion: the EMH is no longer mandatory part of the ship since there now are 2-3 staff members who have passed the medical track basic or even advanced training; what would be the status of the EMH who became sentient from thereafter? Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Jul 14, 2021 |
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Jul 14, 2021 22:55
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Der Kyhe posted:Measure of a Man does not apply here, since it wasn't about Data deciding to retire or become useless, it was about if the machine-based lifeforms have agency or not on their own future and if they are treated as a species. Data went through the Starfleet academy, EMH was a purpose-built AI that was used longer than what was intended. The complicating situation here is that the Captain can say no to you leaving in a critical situation because you surrender that right voluntarily when you choose of your own free will to enter Starfleet. The circumstance of his 'birth' into sentience may be unusual but the fact remains that the Doctor is a free sentient being with legal agency who never made that choice, it was simply assumed for him. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jul 14, 2021 |
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Jul 14, 2021 23:07
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It just goes to show that sometimes even a custom job is off the Pegg.
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Jul 14, 2021 23:11
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Speaking of Voyager, I never understand why they only train Kes to be a nurse when the entire medical staff is somehow killed during the trip to the DQ. Then when Kes leaves it's basically just Paris as the nurse when he's not on bridge duty. You have like 150 other crewmembers, nobody else can be trained as a field medic?
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Jul 14, 2021 23:13
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FlamingLiberal posted:Speaking of Voyager, I never understand why they only train Kes to be a nurse when the entire medical staff is somehow killed during the trip to the DQ. Then when Kes leaves it's basically just Paris as the nurse when he's not on bridge duty. You have like 150 other crewmembers, nobody else can be trained as a field medic? This would have required Berman and Braga to actually give a poo poo.
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Jul 14, 2021 23:15
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FlamingLiberal posted:Speaking of Voyager, I never understand why they only train Kes to be a nurse when the entire medical staff is somehow killed during the trip to the DQ. Then when Kes leaves it's basically just Paris as the nurse when he's not on bridge duty. You have like 150 other crewmembers, nobody else can be trained as a field medic? Its even more hilarious when you find out there are literally people doing nothing in the lower decks, until Janeway decides to take them out for a field trip. The biologist has less medical understanding than the ace pilot. You'd think that without a EMH you could still ask the computer to scan and diagnose basic problems and suggest cures. We have WEBMD now ffs.
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Jul 14, 2021 23:18
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Burning_Monk posted:Its even more hilarious when you find out there are literally people doing nothing in the lower decks, until Janeway decides to take them out for a field trip. The biologist has less medical understanding than the ace pilot. You'd think that without a EMH you could still ask the computer to scan and diagnose basic problems and suggest cures. We have WEBMD now ffs.
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Jul 14, 2021 23:19
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MikeJF posted:The complicating situation here is that the Captain can say no to you leaving in a critical situation because you surrender that right voluntarily when you choose of your own free will to enter Starfleet. The circumstance of his 'birth' into sentience may be unusual but the fact remains that the Doctor is a free sentient being with legal agency who never made that choice, it was simply assumed for him. He was birthed out of an AI that considered itself to be a Starfleet officer, literally made as one and the only reason he existed. He is given agency by not resetting him the moment he starts to think for himself since that was something that the AI was not supposed to do. And resetting or dismantling an sentient AI is against the ruling of the "measure of a man". Similarly Thomas Riker, the duplicate who became a starfleet lieutenant because he thought he was one since the day he was created. Or that weird not-Kim. All were given the appropriate position to live their lives as the officer they just replaced or thought they would be.
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Jul 14, 2021 23:21
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FlamingLiberal posted:Speaking of Voyager, I never understand why they only train Kes to be a nurse when the entire medical staff is somehow killed during the trip to the DQ. Then when Kes leaves it's basically just Paris as the nurse when he's not on bridge duty. You have like 150 other crewmembers, nobody else can be trained as a field medic? There’s that episode where the EMH’s ethics program starts loving him up because he couldn’t possibly attend to two gravely injured crewmen at the same time and it’s like what the gently caress do you suppose is going to happen if you ever get into an actual battle and there’s just whole bunches of casualties streaming into Sickbay? TNG had Ogawa and a bunch of other nurses, TOS had Chapel and M’Benga, even DS9 had a couple of Bajorans helping out Bashir in his tiny closet of an infirmary on occasion. But no, Voyager has one Emergency Doc who keeps breaking down because he can’t stop shoving loving operas into his program and two morons without any proper medical knowledge safeguarding the health of an entire ship’s complement because.
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Jul 14, 2021 23:22
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