(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
|
ASAPRockySituation posted:How essential is it to read up on Lenin to “get it”? Just read State and Revolution, The Proletarian Revolution and the Renegade Kautsky, and Imperialism the Highest Stage of Capitalism hth What is to be Done and “Left-Wing” Communism: An infantile disorder are dope too
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2021 20:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 01:11 |
|
|
yeah sometimes it's a little tricky to follow bc a lot of his writing is responding to extremely specific events, names and parties involved in the Bolshevik struggle but the political theory and practical ideas he ultimately outlines are easily understood and you can find a lot of parallels in the contemporary moment pretty easily with the ways he lays out the realities of class struggle. it's cool
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2021 20:32
|
|
|
I have read some Lenin and some Marx, and and there's more of both I want to read, but wots Mao's biggest Work, to get a better idea of what Maoism means.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2021 20:33
|
|
|
In Training posted:I have read some Lenin and some Marx, and and there's more of both I want to read, but wots Mao's biggest Work, to get a better idea of what Maoism means. On Practice On Contradiction On Handling Contradictions Among the People Talks at the Yan'an Forum on Literature Quotations from Mao Zedong (Little Red Book) hth
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2021 20:39
|
|
|
Also Lenin wrote the best introduction to Marxism ever called The Three Sources and Three Component Parts of Marxism: https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/mar/x01.htm He specifically wrote it for beginners. Tell me you’re not inspired after reading that
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2021 20:43
|
|
|
MLSM posted:On Practice 
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2021 20:53
|
|
|
MLSM posted:On Practice honestly Mao kinda sucks rear end for me to read. I've given up on booth On Contradiction and on Practice. I found that ARAK, the primer on theory and practice for the Communist Party of the Philipines did way more to help me understand Mao than either of them did. ARAK can be found online by googling ARAK pdf and then searching for the foreign languages press link.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2021 21:47
|
|
|
Sorry for my bad post earlier I wanted to say that description of commodity fetishism is persuasive and I want to explain it to people
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2021 22:34
|
|
|
read Walter Rodney imo How Europe Underdeveloped Africa covers a lotta useful theory and it's super readable
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 00:13
|
|
|
animist posted:read Walter Rodney imo this book owns
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 00:19
|
|
|
I've also heard that Malcom X's autobio and Revolutionary Suicide are both really, really good for more contemporary Maoist stuff, but I haven't read them yet
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 00:20
|
|
|
I read it pretty recently and the only thing I can remember in it that was really about socialism was islamic hospitality and charity. it's about his life and racism and islam, not really politics outside of that
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 00:44
|
|
|
Yeah Malcolm has some positive stuff to say about China towards the end, and it's good on a general "organising an oppressed people in the imperial core" level but it's not really about Maoism. Beautiful read tho.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 00:46
|
|
|
Gotcha. My friend talked way more about Rev. Suicide but mentioned that malcolm's autobio was a good companion piece/ to read it before Newton's stuff
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 00:47
|
|
|
mcclay posted:Gotcha. My friend talked way more about Rev. Suicide but mentioned that malcolm's autobio was a good companion piece/ to read it before Newton's stuff yeah, i've read revolutionary suicide, i remember it being pretty interesting and inspiring. i just wish i knew where it ended up, haven't read it in awhile..
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 04:28
|
|
|
MLSM posted:Also Lenin wrote the best introduction to Marxism ever called The Three Sources and Three Component Parts of Marxism: https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/mar/x01.htm I don’t know how to deal with the trauma of the USSR having been created and then failing due to internal contradictions and cooptation inspiring read though
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 06:57
|
|
|
irresponsibly place all your bets on socialism with chinese characteristics like i have what could go wrong
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 07:03
|
|
|
yr new gurlfrand! posted:I don’t know how to deal with the trauma of the USSR having been created and then failing due to internal contradictions and cooptation Don't forget the entire international community was fighting the USSR tooth and nail for its entire existence, and it still took a bunch of feudal bumblefuck nations and turned them into a nuclear superpower that won the space race.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 14:28
|
|
|
yr new gurlfrand! posted:I don’t know how to deal with the trauma of the USSR having been created and then failing due to internal contradictions and cooptation I like the answer that basically is "how many times does it take to get something right" and Zizek really does a good one when he points out that yeah, the loss was bad, but it might very well be that the traumatic component of that loss is what makes the next one succeed (just realized that communism is a roguelike but for history lmao)
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 14:32
|
|
|
dead gay comedy forums posted:I like the answer that basically is "how many times does it take to get something right" and Zizek really does a good one when he points out that yeah, the loss was bad, but it might very well be that the traumatic component of that loss is what makes the next one succeed Deng Xiaoping posted:I am convinced that more and more people will come to believe in Marxism, because it is a science. Using historical materialism, it has uncovered the laws governing the development of human society. Feudal society replaced slave society, capitalism supplanted feudalism, and, after a long time, socialism will necessarily supersede capitalism. This is an irreversible general trend of historical development, but the road has many twists and turns. Over the several centuries that it took for capitalism to replace feudalism, how many times were monarchies restored! So, in a sense, temporary restorations are usual and can hardly be avoided. Some countries have suffered major setbacks, and socialism appears to have been weakened. But the people have been tempered by the setbacks and have drawn lessons from them, and that will make socialism develop in a healthier direction. So don't panic, don't think that Marxism has disappeared, that it's not useful any more and that it has been defeated. Nothing of the sort! imo
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 15:03
|
|
|
I don’t like or agree with “inevitability of communism” takes, there’s nothing inevitable about it. even without an impending civilization-ending climate crisis
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 15:07
|
|
|
it’s not really a take bud that’s baked in to Marx’s analysis that or mutual destruction of the contending classes
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 15:14
|
|
|
Yeah if class struggle is a permanent feature of class society then the shaping of the proletariat as a revolutionary political force is also permanently ongoing. Even the necessity of a vanguard and the ability of the bourgeois to destroy the vanguard won't affect that dynamic so it's a case of 'we only have to be lucky once, they have to be lucky every time' which creates the inevitability of it all either ending in revolution or destruction of both sides as an end to the class dynamic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 15:31
|
|
|
indigi posted:I don’t like or agree with “inevitability of communism” takes, there’s nothing inevitable about it. even without an impending civilization-ending climate crisis my view is the "socialism or barbarism" one. capitalism will inevitably degenerate. only that part is the inevitable part. the need for revolutionary actions comes from the desire to avoid barbarism/fascism and instead embark upon the socialist road.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 15:34
|
|
|
indigi posted:I don’t like or agree with “inevitability of communism” takes, there’s nothing inevitable about it. even without an impending civilization-ending climate crisis there's an element of victorian rhetoric to Marx here that's very important to contextualize here. The "inevitability" of communism has more to do with Fauxbot posted:my view is the "socialism or barbarism" one. capitalism will inevitably degenerate. only that part is the inevitable part than with an automatic, unavoidable victory. Marx used the rhetoric of his time to explain a conclusion that is scientific through historical materialism, and as such, as strong as any demonstration of a natural force, like the apple falling from a tree to illustrate gravity. Of course, Marxism is a consequence of a historical process itself, so the nature of the "inevitability" had more to do with a 19th century mentality of assurance of science than with the reality of material circumstances to lead towards communism
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 16:11
|
|
|
Pentecoastal Elites posted:that or mutual destruction of the contending classes yes dead gay comedy forums posted:
yeah that’s how I understand it but people still talking in the same terms in the context of the 21st century is odd
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 16:40
|
|
|
just embrace a little revolutionary optimism
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 16:41
|
|
|
communism is inevitable given capitalism in the same way that capitalism was inevitable given feudalism - that is, only socialism CAN defeat capitalism, and capitalism unavoidably creates the conditions for socialism, so given enough time that's what's assuredly "next" obviously, capitalism's actual ability to overcome feudalism at any particular moment and in any particular place was contingent on local accidents like how strong the feudal state was, what market conditions were like, etc, and obviously at any moment a meteor could have struck the earth and ended human civilization. but capitalism WAS an inevitable consequence of feudalism given the continued existence of society, generally the analogy to physical forces is apt - water will always tend to flow downhill, even if it happens to be caught in a cistern for the moment Ferrinus has issued a correction as of 17:06 on Jul 17, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 17:00
|
|
|
Fauxbot posted:my view is the "socialism or barbarism" one. capitalism will inevitably degenerate. only that part is the inevitable part. the need for revolutionary actions comes from the desire to avoid barbarism/fascism and instead embark upon the socialist road.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 17:06
|
|
|
yr new gurlfrand! posted:I don’t know how to deal with the trauma of the USSR having been created and then failing due to internal contradictions and cooptation  quote:The fall of the Berlin Wall marked the end of the Cold War but also the rise of a melancholic vision of history as a series of losses. For the political left, the cause lost was communism, and this trauma determined how leftists wrote the next chapter in their political struggle and how they have thought about their past since. Throughout the twentieth century, argues Left-Wing Melancholia, from classical Marxism to psychoanalysis to the advent of critical theory, a culture of defeat and its emotional overlay of melancholy have characterized the leftist understanding of the political in history and in theoretical critique.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 17:39
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Hezbolsonaro/status/1416106696741580802
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 17:46
|
|
|
Mao was an incarnation of Maitreya….
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 17:49
|
|
|
quote:The fall of the Berlin Wall marked the end of the Cold War but also the rise of a melancholic vision of history as a series of losses. … Throughout the twentieth century, wait so did this school of thought rise in 1989, or did it characterize the entire 20th century? this book sounds really stupid
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 17:59
|
|
|
The school of thought was present prior to 1989, but was greatly exacerbated by the fall of the Berlin Wall.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 18:03
|
|
|
it doesn’t say that though, it says it characterized left thought throughout the 20th century. where did it rise to, super-characterization? meta-characterization?
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 18:04
|
|
|
indigi posted:wait so did this school of thought rise in 1989, or did it characterize the entire 20th century? this book sounds really stupid How are you so consistently ignorant in every thread
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 18:06
|
|
|
MLSM posted:How are you so consistently ignorant in every thread self-proclaimed anarchist iirc
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 18:20
|
|
|
Brain Candy posted:self-proclaimed anarchist iirc that’s uncalled for
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 18:21
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:communism is inevitable given capitalism in the same way that capitalism was inevitable given feudalism - that is, only socialism CAN defeat capitalism, and capitalism unavoidably creates the conditions for socialism, so given enough time that's what's assuredly "next" idk, assuming that we can enumerate all the different phases of human society ahead of time has always seemed a little naive to me. capitalism can certainly change form, and who knows what other weird poo poo could show up. then again i have no idea what those other phases could be. i just think there's a whole lotta degrees of freedom to reality, yk?
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 20:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 01:11 |
|
|
animist posted:idk, assuming that we can enumerate all the different phases of human society ahead of time has always seemed a little naive to me. capitalism can certainly change form, and who knows what other weird poo poo could show up. well, the "who knows" is us if we've done a proper analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of the prevailing mode of production. what can beat or outproduce masses of industrial workers cooperating to produce exchange-values for a private employer? masses of industrial workers cooperating to produce use-values for themselves
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2021 23:48
|
|