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Kavak posted:Picturing Fate weebs merging with CtD fans and staring up at my ceiling in horror like Scatman Crothers in The Shining Well now that you say that, the Mage's Association is pretty close to the Hermetic Brotherhood and... e: oh god what an awful snipe
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Jul 17, 2021 23:28
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I did run a Grail War game using Mage: the Awakening. It was pretty easy: Servants are just very powerful Familiars after all.
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Jul 18, 2021 02:02
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Scathach was cool because they were Sidhe who weren't soul stealers and had decent politics.
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Jul 18, 2021 02:27
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MonsieurChoc posted:I did run a Grail War game using Mage: the Awakening. Fate is basically just a setting where the Siddha beat the Seers to the punch
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Jul 18, 2021 02:28
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Scathach was cool because they were Sidhe who weren't soul stealers and had decent politics. Right, they're the House that stayed behind and was ok with the commoner-run governments, right?
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Jul 18, 2021 02:57
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:Scathach was cool because they were Sidhe who weren't soul stealers and had decent politics. [Edit:] Ahahaha I went to surf around Houses on the wiki, did C20 seriously pull “9/11 caused Thallain” after how it was one of the things old WW was restrained and tasteful about?? 
AmiYumi fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 18, 2021 05:16
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AmiYumi posted:Weren’t they also loaded up with flaws and curses because how dare someone want to play a Sidhe that thinks commoners are people Hahah, yep. And tied the Red Star to appearing with 9/11, too, so not only is it tasteless, but it's a completely pointless retcon of half the last year of Changeling books and one of the few stable events of metaplot canon! Matt McFarland strikes again.
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Jul 18, 2021 05:32
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GOOGLE WTC7 AND ANTHELIOS
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Jul 18, 2021 06:02
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Like, here's the exact text of that ridiculous moment: 'In an eerie mimicry of the Resurgence, when the moon landing inspired hope around the world, came the horrifying events of September 11, 2001. In their wake, the Dreaming echoed with nightmare magic, washing over realms with the power of a massive tide, unlocking gateways and pathways to ancient prisons unseen and unvisited since before the Sundering. Trods once again opened across the world as waves of Thallain, Dark-Kin, and their minions entered the Autumn world to prepare it for the return of their masters. Without warning, the sky seemingly ripped open and, to those with faerie sight, a red sun appeared, bathing the world in a sinister scarlet light reminiscent of blood. Scholars named it the Eye of Balor, recorded in a few tomes as belonging to one of the Fomorians imprisoned in the Dreaming. Fearing that the Elder Dark would return, or that the eye did in fact herald the Long Winter, panic erupted among the Kithain...' Page 40. Now, here's the problem. The Adhene were brought in in 1999 to tie in with the appearance of the Red Star after the Week of Nightmares. So we already have a serviceable explanation, that's been in use for nearly two decades, for why there's suddenly new Sidhe houses, new weird faeries, and the dawn of Winter. There's no need to tie it to 9/11. And you might say, 'but Loomer, 9/11 was such a big deal, wouldn't a huge terrorist attack impact the dreaming?' and - sure! That's a solid hook, right? But why just 9/11? Why none of the ones since or before? Why not Indonesia's year of killing? If it's tied to the genocides of the 90s (which the text suggests fuelled up the tension that exploded), why didn't Srebenica ignite it, or the hundred days of murder in Rwanda? The world stared with horror at plenty of atrocities both before and after, but 9/11 gets elevated. And we know the actual answer why is both amerocentrism, and to give the book a little Edge that it didn't need either tonally or to explain events. The end result is neither necessary nor helpful to moving Changeling forward.
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Jul 18, 2021 06:16
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Who wrote that, was it The Furry or The Monster?
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Jul 18, 2021 06:23
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Loomer posted:But why just 9/11? Why none of the ones since or before? Why not Indonesia's year of killing? If it's tied to the genocides of the 90s (which the text suggests fuelled up the tension that exploded), why didn't Srebenica ignite it, or the hundred days of murder in Rwanda? The world stared with horror at plenty of atrocities both before and after, but 9/11 gets elevated. And we know the actual answer why is both amerocentrism, and to give the book a little Edge that it didn't need either tonally or to explain events. The end result is neither necessary nor helpful to moving Changeling forward. Countries outside the First World are part of the Deep Umbra.
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Jul 18, 2021 06:25
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Is there any explanation for why the Naraka exist/are like they are without the Week of Nightmares? Something tells me I know the answer. Also, is this awful poo poo: quote:Using tactics similar to the protesters of the Arab Spring or Black Lives Matter, the dark fae portray themselves as advocates of the downtrodden, subtly undermining the customs of fae society.
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Jul 18, 2021 06:26
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Kurieg posted:Who wrote that, was it The Furry or The Monster? Well, hard to say since the book has like 10 authors credited, but The Monster was in charge of development so we get to blame him.
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Jul 18, 2021 06:26
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Loomer posted:Well, hard to say since the book has like 10 authors credited, but The Monster was in charge of development so we get to blame him. I get to blame him for a lot of things.
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Jul 18, 2021 06:32
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AmiYumi posted:Is there any explanation for why the Naraka exist/are like they are without the Week of Nightmares? Something tells me I know the answer. '...Frankly, those who count themselves among the Shadow Court don’t care. Their only goal is to force a response from those capable of alleviating some of the suffering. They take inspiration for their tactics from, and inspire in turn, the protests of similar groups in human society — the Occupy movement, the Arab Spring, and Black Lives Matter to name a few. Whenever the Shadow Court discovers a high-ranking noble will make a public appearance, they gather in numbers impossible to ignore to disrupt the proceedings. The aim is to show the elites of Kithain society that they exist and that they will not submit to their circumstances quietly...' page 62 Kingdom of Willows actually confronted this question a lot better - is it Seelie to stand for a social order that is monstrously unjust and fight for Slavery? Is it Unseelie to resist an unjust society? Rather than 'oh yeah the Shadow Court are totally manipulating Black Lives Matter to destroy society and usher in the Endless Winter' As for the Naraka, yes, they just set it so they made a bargain with the Tuatha to be allowed to use the trods in exchange for wiping their entire culture away.
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Jul 18, 2021 06:33
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AmiYumi posted:Is there any explanation for why the Naraka exist/are like they are without the Week of Nightmares? Something tells me I know the answer. I can sadly understand what he means by comparing them to BLM, but why the Arab Spring? Is McFarlane now a defender of the Assad regime? Was he really upset when Mubarak was overthrown?
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Jul 18, 2021 06:34
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"The Shadow Court is Occupy" was brilliant and then they ruined it by having the Thallain secretly run it. I don't even know how Thallain secretly run an organization with no leadership. They're just that talented!
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Jul 18, 2021 06:41
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It's an artifact of trying to do both versions of the Shadow Court at once - its outer circle is genuinely just Unseelie fae legitimately airing their grievances against Seelie dictatorship. Its inner circle is a literal sinister cabal hoping to destroy society and usher in Winter (whether to bring it to an early end, save Arcadia by forcing it to switch to Summer, or because they think it can be survived). The same page lets us know that the Shadow Court is now secretly run by Thallain who use the Shadow Court as a puppet to shatter society and bring about the Winter. So, to be clear, that's 'a sinister band of monsters who look just like us but are fundamentally alien to our community took over a radical social movement and now manipulate Black Lives Matter, the Occupy movement, and the Arab Spring for their own ends, which is the destruction of Our Way Of Life'. Not, uh. Not great.
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Jul 18, 2021 06:42
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Loomer posted:So, to be clear, that's 'a sinister band of monsters who look just like us but are fundamentally alien to our community took over a radical social movement and now manipulate Black Lives Matter, the Great Ape-Snake War, and the Arab Spring for their own ends, which is the destruction of Our Way Of Life'. "Matt, why do you write Thallain with three sets of parentheses in every draft you turn in?"
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Jul 18, 2021 06:46
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Kavak posted:"Matt, why do you write Thallain with three sets of parentheses in every draft you turn in?" That flag has a fringe, therefore this is an admiralty court, not a seelie court.
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Jul 18, 2021 07:00
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I know goons like to go ham on how deadly and scary the ocean is but that beach is apparently especially dangerous, to the point where public swimming was and is still prohibited. He was only able to swim there too because he had a special pass and it was normally restricted to military training operations. I remember reading an interview with a park ranger or somesuch around there and he said the only thing remotely unusual about it was that he happened to be the Prime Minister. It being prohibited doesn't stop people from trying, of course, but it's an absolute deathtrap of a coast.
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Jul 18, 2021 08:47
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Really I just admire the comedy of naming a public pool after him.
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Jul 18, 2021 12:41
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Mors Rattus posted:Really I just admire the comedy of naming a public pool after him. It's how you know you're in Australia. We still crack jokes about it.
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Jul 18, 2021 12:56
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Loomer posted:But why just 9/11? Why none of the ones since or before? Why not Indonesia's year of killing? If it's tied to the genocides of the 90s (which the text suggests fuelled up the tension that exploded), why didn't Srebenica ignite it, or the hundred days of murder in Rwanda? The world stared with horror at plenty of atrocities both before and after, but 9/11 gets elevated. And we know the actual answer why is both amerocentrism, and to give the book a little Edge that it didn't need either tonally or to explain events. The end result is neither necessary nor helpful to moving Changeling forward. yeah this is the thing i actually kind of like the "THE POPE IS A CYBERDEMON! ALEXANDER THE GREAT WAS A MAGE! THE MOON LANDING BROKE METAPHYSICS!" stuff in the World of Darkness; to be categorically opposed to it just seems like a refusal to do media analysis, and that's no fun at all but there's a difference between that and the sheer idiotic nearsightedness of suggesting that 9/11 was a uniquely horrific event in world history
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Jul 18, 2021 14:25
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I'm glad C20 got the rules makeover the line needed, but even little things jump out as irritating. Take for example the aithu which are the Thallain eshu: "Aithu are typically tall, muscular individuals with features that call to African and Middle-Eastern descent, but aithu of every race exist. They lean toward the sickly side of thin." So which is it, Matt? Muscular or skinny?
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Jul 18, 2021 14:27
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Dawgstar posted:I'm glad C20 got the rules makeover the line needed, but even little things jump out as irritating. Take for example the aithu which are the Thallain eshu: You can be lean but totally shredded. Like a "0% bodyfat" kind of build.
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Jul 18, 2021 14:37
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bewilderment posted:You can be lean but totally shredded. Like a "0% bodyfat" kind of build. That doesn't really jibe with 'sickly side of thin' though.
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Jul 18, 2021 14:42
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It makes sense to me as an exaggerated version of a kind of 'Olympic runner physique'. Especially since they're supernatural beings and don't need to conform to human muscle needs. Search for 'marathoner physique' and you can see people who have intensely conditioned their bodies in ways that don't look entirely healthy.  This guy is a marathoner. His legs are clearly very well muscled but he's also super thin. bewilderment fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Jul 18, 2021 |
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Jul 18, 2021 15:08
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:yeah this is the thing Exactly - wild gonzo rantings that sound like the Pepe Silvia rant but about how the Verbena were at the court of woman-kings in Nigeria are awesome, but the amerocentrism is unbearable. Doubly so since it takes an event that was decidedly going 'not everything is about Europe and the West' by fronting Indian and Chinese vampires (albeit, uh, in a way that was really full on 90s not-aging-too-well) doing their own thing independent of anyone else and replaces it with 'America! Our trauma is more important than yours!'
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Jul 18, 2021 15:17
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:yeah this is the thing I think you nailed something I've been struggling with as I read through the 1e WoD book. One the one hand, a historical event like The London Fire is tied to the Anarchs with the Tremere behind them pulling the strings. Cool. Actually interesting bit of plot that makes sense per the other metaplot explored in that chapter (Tremere trying to get into London and the Venture are telling them to kick rocks) Then we have the Assasamites being tied to the 85 Vienna terrorist attacks and the assassination of the leader of Jordan in the 50’s. And a Gangrel assassinating the PM of Sweden Those feel way more uncomfortable because they don't add anything to the metaplot while also grabbing major events and just saying "Oh it was Vampires" which is just......eeeesh. Those are events that literally did not need to addressed at all, like loving 9/11. Gonna need to invest in some band aids before I cut myself on all this EDGE.
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Jul 18, 2021 15:28
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There's three questions to ask whenever you're going to say '<x fictional thing> did <y real event>': 1. Does it actually contribute to what you're creating in some way? Does it add plot hooks, foster the right atmosphere, or encourage character concepts? 2. Does it involve highly sensitive material, especially if that material is within recent history and living memory? 3. What alternatives could I use that would either avoid 2 or do 1 better? 1 is just basic design. Avoid cruft, add substance. 2 is a basic ethical principle. And 3 is something that should always be in the back of mind when you're asking these questions, because multiple options leave you a lot more room to patch things as you go.
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Jul 18, 2021 15:56
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Loomer posted:There's three questions to ask whenever you're going to say '<x fictional thing> did <y real event>': Do you mind if I steal this for my script, because you explained what I've been trying to verbalize for like a week now. I will of course credit it to "The mad wizard known as Loomer"
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Jul 18, 2021 16:29
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joylessdivision posted:Do you mind if I steal this for my script, because you explained what I've been trying to verbalize for like a week now. I will of course credit it to "The mad wizard known as Loomer" They're just basic principles of worldbuilding, go nuts.
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Jul 18, 2021 16:30
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LMAO at Gangrel GLadio. White Wolf should get C-Spam to write their Second Inquisition material, only us freaks can write the Deep State conspiracy poo poo properly.
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Jul 18, 2021 21:08
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MonsieurChoc posted:LMAO at Gangrel GLadio. Wait, Gangrel Gladio? Where? joylessdivision posted:And a Gangrel assassinating the PM of Sweden Olof Palme? Honestly you might as well blame that one on vampires, it makes as much sense as the rest of the theories behind who did it.
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Jul 18, 2021 21:32
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LatwPIAT posted:Wait, Gangrel Gladio? Where? I believe that's the one. I mean this book also has a Mossad Mage. 1e was some wild poo poo is what I'm saying.
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Jul 18, 2021 21:47
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LatwPIAT posted:Wait, Gangrel Gladio? Where? Yeah, that's the one I was joking about.
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Jul 18, 2021 22:19
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MonsieurChoc posted:Yeah, that's the one I was joking about. I’d completely forgotten that conspiracy theory. It’s kind of far out there among the Olof Palme theories. You see, [i]actually[i] the Gangrel were hired by South African intelligence…
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Jul 18, 2021 23:09
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Don't forget the bit about how Obama's election caused the roads to Arcadia to open again.
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Jul 18, 2021 23:34
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Rand Brittain posted:Don't forget the bit about how Obama's election caused the roads to Arcadia to open again. That one just physically hurt me.
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Jul 18, 2021 23:36
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