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MikeJF posted:Apparently several years into Voyager Garret Wang discovered that the writers said that Harry was Chinese; he'd been assuming he was Korean because Kim is a Korean name, but the writers had apparently just gone 'generic Asian with generic Asian name'. I'm reasonably sure Korea has never been mentioned in Star Trek, so until otherwise told, I'm going to assume that China outright consumed the Koreas as part of that whole Eastern Coalition business. Sorta like how the most British British people are actually Germans.
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Jul 19, 2021 02:45
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HopperUK posted:According to the commentary, the way you get good, subtle performance out of Shatner is to completely exhaust him with take after take so he'll quit overplaying so much. By that same metric, Shatner also used that same technique against NBC itself with regards to the Kirk-Uhura kiss to make sure it made it to air and they didn't wuss out on actually showing an interracial kiss on TV for one of the first times in history. Do one good take of the actual kiss and and then intentionally cock up every other take and variant of it so they had only one useable shot.
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Jul 19, 2021 02:49
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Sash! posted:I'm reasonably sure Korea has never been mentioned in Star Trek, so until otherwise told, I'm going to assume that China outright consumed the Koreas as part of that whole Eastern Coalition business. I don't think it has either, apart from probably appearing on a map at some point. I'm not sure you need to go as far as China consuming Korea though. You could easily handwave it away by saying that populations have mixed over time. Kind of like how in The Expanse, Naomi Nagata has a Japanese last name but is barely Japanese at all, it's just the name one of her ancestors had that she ended up with.
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Jul 19, 2021 03:04
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I mean, we could also not to try to invent canon reasons why Asian representation in media has been poor.
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Jul 19, 2021 03:08
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1000 Brown M and Ms posted:I don't think it has either, apart from probably appearing on a map at some point. I'm not sure you need to go as far as China consuming Korea though. You could easily handwave it away by saying that populations have mixed over time. Kind of like how in The Expanse, Naomi Nagata has a Japanese last name but is barely Japanese at all, it's just the name one of her ancestors had that she ended up with. Jean Luc Picard the "french" man.
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Jul 19, 2021 04:22
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Senor Tron posted:Jean Luc Picard the "french" man. I like my personal fan theory that an extremely british superman conquered France during the eugenics war and that's why French only exists as a comical accent and a dead language. Picard might as well been trying to teach his dog latin.
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Jul 19, 2021 04:50
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8one6 posted:I like my personal fan theory that an extremely british superman conquered France during the eugenics war and that's why French only exists as a comical accent and a dead language. Picard might as well been trying to teach his dog latin. Benedict Cumberbatch, but he's not playing Khan, it's actually him
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Jul 19, 2021 04:52
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Brawnfire posted:Benedict Cumberbatch, but he's not playing Khan, it's actually him "My name... is... Benedict Cumberbatch." [Visible look of confusion between Kirk, Spock and McCoy]
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Jul 19, 2021 05:50
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Brawnfire posted:Benedict Cumberbatch, but he's not playing Khan, it's actually him Now there's a movie.
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Jul 19, 2021 06:08
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They should've just made him Gary Mitchel and done Where no Man Has Gone Before, it'd have fit in loving perfectly. Like I'm sure Orci and Kurtzman would've still found a way to utterly gently caress up the script, but at least they aren't starting from a spot of most people hating them for recasting Khan with the whitest dude. 
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Jul 19, 2021 06:43
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Sash! posted:I'm reasonably sure Korea has never been mentioned in Star Trek There's no Memory Alpha entry for it so, considering what else warrants MA entries, I'd say you're right. Sash! posted:I'm going to assume that China outright consumed the Koreas However I will not join you in this, with my citation of Korea's long history as a hornet's nest China repeatedly stuck its dick into and regretted. See also: Vietnam.
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Jul 19, 2021 07:01
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Sir Lemming posted:It's a combination of everything that's been mentioned. Season 2 definitely has a lot of the well-known stuff. We learn more about Spock and other Vulcan stuff starting with the S2 premiere, Amok Time, which also has the iconic fight music in it. Shatner becomes gradually more Shatner as it goes on, both in terms of his speaking mannerisms and his physique. Plus, Chekhov. And season 3 is when Kirk finally lives up to the stereotype and demonstrates the power of love every 3 episodes or so. Generally speaking I think it gradually becomes more character-focused, as often happens with shows, since you spend some time at the beginning establishing the premise. Another fun thing that didn't really happen until season 2: Red Shirts. In season one hardly any redshirts bite it due to the threat of the week. Then season two rolls along and the Enterprise racks up an enormous body count. Apparently extras are expensive, so way fewer redshirts die in season 3.
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Jul 19, 2021 12:21
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Eimi posted:They should've just made him Gary Mitchel and done Where no Man Has Gone Before, it'd have fit in loving perfectly. Like I'm sure Orci and Kurtzman would've still found a way to utterly gently caress up the script, but at least they aren't starting from a spot of most people hating them for recasting Khan with the whitest dude.
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Jul 19, 2021 12:55
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yeah I had hoped that he was going to be Gary Mitchell, but audiences only remember Khan, so Khan it was. The real facepalm part of it though is people only remember Khan so well because of Ricardo's performance, bringing in cumberbatch is just.... i still can't understand why anyone thought anyone would enjoy that.
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Jul 19, 2021 15:13
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Tom Guycot posted:The real facepalm part of it though is people only remember Khan so well because of Ricardo's performance, bringing in cumberbatch is just.... i still can't understand why anyone thought anyone would enjoy that. Also even if you have no idea who Khan is going into 2, the film a) explains this to a reasonable standard so you are up to speed, and b) the plot is entirely about Khan's quest for revenge on Kirk so you understand what's at stake. In Into Darkness it's explained that Khan is genetically engineered and that Marcus found him, but I don't think anyone ever actually explains why he's so bad.
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Jul 19, 2021 15:31
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Tom Guycot posted:The real facepalm part of it though is people only remember Khan so well because of Ricardo's performance, bringing in cumberbatch is just.... i still can't understand why anyone thought anyone would enjoy that. Well supposedly they nearly had Javier Bardem but it fell through and Cumberbatch was the fallback. Bardem would've fit much better.
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Jul 19, 2021 15:32
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The phrase "Benedict Cumberbatch" seemed to be its own little spell over casting directors for a while. Their eyes would turn green with little money signs on them NEED CUM BER BATCH
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Jul 19, 2021 15:39
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Alchenar posted:Also even if you have no idea who Khan is going into 2, the film a) explains this to a reasonable standard so you are up to speed, and b) the plot is entirely about Khan's quest for revenge on Kirk so you understand what's at stake. HES THAT MAN THAT WAS IN THAT FILM AND WAS A BAD MAN AND KIRK SAID KAHANN AND THEN HE DIED. I honestly think the that mike and jay do the voice of how the writers of the new trek stuff developed the script when they do their "this was written by a 7 year old shtick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZuefJb0udw&t=1236s
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Jul 19, 2021 15:42
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Nerds want New Orleans to put up a statue of Sisko, and I’m all for it. Sign here.
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Jul 19, 2021 15:56
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MikeJF posted:Well supposedly they nearly had Javier Bardem but it fell through and Cumberbatch was the fallback. Bardem would've fit much better.
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Jul 19, 2021 15:58
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FlamingLiberal posted:It was Benicio Del Toro Still better
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Jul 19, 2021 16:07
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MikeJF posted:Well supposedly they nearly had Javier Bardem but it fell through and Cumberbatch was the fallback. Bardem would've fit much better. Benicio del Toro, not Bardem. He was on board until Paramount refused to move from an offer barely above scale.
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Jul 19, 2021 16:10
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No actor they slotted in there would make up for the terrible plot of the movie and the nonsensical action sequences.
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Jul 19, 2021 16:12
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A quick google says del Toro was on board and then fell through, then they tried for Bardem for a while, then Cumberbatch was choice #3.
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Jul 19, 2021 16:12
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bull3964 posted:No actor they slotted in there would make up for the terrible plot of the movie and the nonsensical action sequences. I just want to add, the movie didn't need Kahn to work. If they wanted to do a movie about the paranoia of empire and your country not living up to ideals due to fear of outside inference, you didn't need Kahn to do that. The movie failed to make a compelling point on the first point and wasted Benedict Cumberbatch and Kahn. A bad movie I guess is the point here.
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Jul 19, 2021 16:23
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Cumberbatch needed to be a weirdo scientist that turns out to be the antagonist over the course of an episode. That's the appropriate Trektype (portmanteau of Trek + archetype, try to keep up) for him
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Jul 19, 2021 16:33
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Mooseontheloose posted:I just want to add, the movie didn't need Kahn to work. If they wanted to do a movie about the paranoia of empire and your country not living up to ideals due to fear of outside inference, you didn't need Kahn to do that.
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Jul 19, 2021 17:15
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HD DAD posted:Yeah, Janeway is the most Kirk-like of all the modern captains. Just watched "Good Shepard." Seven identifies some lower decks shlubs and suggests they just let em be freeloaders instead of inferior workers. Janeway decides to take them on an impromptu away-mission, just her and these goobs. Some dark matter phenomena damages their shuttle, turns out to be some kind of dark matter lifeform that infects one of the scrubs. Thing eventually bursts out of the dude's neck and flops onto the computer console and is doing *something* to the ship, Janeway says to let it ride, maybe it wants to talk. Scared loser shoots it to death, actually obliterates it. She's pissed and takes action since it's now overtly hostile situation, starts to lure the dark matterlings into some radiogenic ring, tells the kiddos to scram and chill on a moon, because she's gonna try and blow up it all up. Two decide to stay and help, one bails in escape pod -- but he's actually doing a marginally-noble self-pitying suicide mission instead. Janeway chases after to save his rear end and still start the chain reaction. It works but they're all crashed up and knocked out and get picked up by Voyager later. Good Janeway ep Also always love the bootleg janeway/tuvok episode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERxCj-OhreU Khanstant fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jul 19, 2021 |
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Jul 19, 2021 18:12
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The real facepalm about the whole situation was how JJ flat-out lied to fans before the movie came out. Not a wink and a nudge, not ignoring the question, just straight-up "no, his character is NOT going to be Khan."
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Jul 19, 2021 18:28
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 Please tell me one of y'all has some cool backstory for this cake
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Jul 19, 2021 18:50
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Khanstant posted:
He made a giant version of that for Kes' birthday in season 2, so it is a reference to that.
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Jul 19, 2021 19:10
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Snow Cone Capone posted:The real facepalm about the whole situation was how JJ flat-out lied to fans before the movie came out. Not a wink and a nudge, not ignoring the question, just straight-up "no, his character is NOT going to be Khan." Reminds me of Batman: Arkham Knight Devs: "The Arkham Knight is a brand new original character with a grudge against Batman and a mysterious past" Fans: "It's Jason Todd, the second Robin, isn't it?" Devs: "HE'S AN ENITERLY NEW CHARACTER" Then the game came out and it was Jason Todd.
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Jul 19, 2021 19:12
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We reached a point where half of shows and movies get their twists from fan fiction or fan poo poo, so I'm not surprised.
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Jul 19, 2021 19:19
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John Wick of Dogs posted:He made a giant version of that for Kes' birthday in season 2, so it is a reference to that. So it's a Vulcan cupcake? ...why is that so loving cute
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Jul 19, 2021 19:22
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Snow Cone Capone posted:The real facepalm about the whole situation was how JJ flat-out lied to fans before the movie came out. Not a wink and a nudge, not ignoring the question, just straight-up "no, his character is NOT going to be Khan." I guess when you do nothing at all interesting with the character aside from the twist reveal, you're compelled to protect that at all costs...
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Jul 19, 2021 19:37
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Veotax posted:Reminds me of Batman: Arkham Knight This is, as much as I hate to admit, slightly less egregious because you could go the "nyah nyah we meant the persona was new and technically no, there has never been a villain called the Arkham Knight so we weren't lying" route with it
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Jul 19, 2021 19:44
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They should have reverse terminator 2'd it. Show he's in it, but rather than the marketing spoiling Arnold is the good guy now, have the marketing lie and imply Khan is a good guy and working with Kirk in this one, which is true until a point. In interviews you can say poo poo like "We were thinking in this alternate timeline, if Khan were met in different circumstances, is it possible he would have been successfully reintegrated into society?"
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Jul 19, 2021 19:55
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John Wick of Dogs posted:They should have reverse terminator 2'd it. That requires more cleverness than JJ or the Paramount execs are capable of.
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Jul 19, 2021 20:00
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Or they could have just wrote a story about how the Kelvin incident has made Starfleet more reactionary and isolationist and it was leading them down a path towards something disastrous and not involved Khan at all. Then you could have had a coherent story that wasn't relying on past stuff as a crutch that would have actually been relevant to the times. Then that disillusionment could have been the driving force behind Kirk's wanting to leave Starfleet in Beyond. Even though he thwarted disaster, he's not convinced the organization is truly right still. He's brought to his lowest point when it appears that another skeleton in Starfleet's closet caused his ship to be destroyed with many crew members lost. Then he realizes through the rescue attempt that evil was allowed to flourish in starfleet because no one was there to shine a light on it and running away isn't the answer. Bla bla bla, individuals can cause evil but people working together can thwart that every time because they are stronger. There, Kirk has an actual character arc across all three movies and we don't have Spock delivering the most unintentional funny line in the history of Star Trek.
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Jul 19, 2021 20:18
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Snow Cone Capone posted:The real facepalm about the whole situation was how JJ flat-out lied to fans before the movie came out. Not a wink and a nudge, not ignoring the question, just straight-up "no, his character is NOT going to be Khan." Abrams never said that. Instead, he sent Pegg out to be the foot soldier and insist that the villain wasn't Khan. Pegg was not pleased.
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Jul 19, 2021 21:19
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