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vc backed means there can be no quiet peace, its explode or die
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Jul 21, 2021 04:03
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bob dobbs is dead posted:these are deec numbers for cash portion, w/o equity at all very good point those numbers are explicitly base salary also barkbell based on that reply it’s very likely in the “shares aren’t worth considering” camp.
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Jul 21, 2021 04:05
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non voting shares, ill ask about the dividends. its a decade old i meant.
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Jul 21, 2021 04:07
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oh if they're actual real shares that pay dividends that's an entirely different conversation, yeah. just ask to see what the dividend payouts have been for the past few years and then ask yourself if the strike price is worth those payouts moving forwards. pretty standard actual real investing stuff
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Jul 21, 2021 04:19
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I’ve never heard of a company paying dividends on unexercised options.
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Jul 21, 2021 04:21
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yeah you’d have to exercise them. another thing that could happen but is absurdly rare is a buyback program, which a private company might put in place for their options to be worth anything to employees who’ve been there a long time. they essentially calculated the strike price based on their magic arbitrary valuation around grant time, can decide to do that eval again, and buy the options back from you as if it were a sale. I’ve heard of it being floated at a place I worked at that had been going for 20 years and no intent to sell, but I left before anything happened.
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Jul 21, 2021 04:25
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CarForumPoster posted:I’ve never heard of a company paying dividends on unexercised options. well of course not. you exercise the option to get the shares, then you get the dividends. typically it vests over a period of time
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Jul 21, 2021 04:25
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any chance we're talking about an esop? if so it's basically cash valued shares based on an external audit with a specific vesting and distribution schedule probably not tho
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Jul 21, 2021 04:43
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btw barkbell, please don't assume from our posting that you are supposed to have already understood all this poo poo. you are benefitting from decades of collective wisdom, mostly gathered from having hosed it up ourselves in the past. poo poo's complicated
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Jul 21, 2021 04:46
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even worse shits deliberately complicated to make the offer look good.
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Jul 21, 2021 05:26
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Trimson Grondag 3 posted:even worse shits deliberately complicated to make the offer look good. the fact that it is very hard and confusing to tell what that "equity" is worth should be a very strong hint about its actual value
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Jul 21, 2021 05:32
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my guess is that they're offering you some number of options at a valuation they had done by an external auditor a year ago (20k / the strike price gives the number of options they're offering). they will probably vest over the next four years and have some condition attached that you can only exercise vested options in the event of an ipo or acquisition. if they do ipo or get acquired you will then get the choice to exercise the options by paying the 20k and then you own the stock which should be worth more than the strike price (because the ipo valuation will be higher than the previous valuation). once you own the stock you can keep it if you want or you sell and you make the difference between the current stock price and the strike price you paid (but maybe you have to wait a 6 month "lockup" from the ipo). if they don't ipo within ten years or something (there's probably an expiry on them) or they get acquired cheap then you just don't exercise and it's worth zero to you. the idea for them is that they get you on a vesting schedule which makes you want to stay longer, and everyone is theoretically incentivised to build a valuable company because a better ipo/acquision is better for you you can try for more if you like, they probably have a limited pool (eg. 500k) to hand out to new hires and promotions before they have to go back to the board/investors to authorise a new pot for giving out more
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Jul 21, 2021 10:01
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I wish there was more EU talk because I'm currently browsing for a new job and the salaries in the Netherlands at least are extremely not at the levels discussed itt. Like, I'm a senior fullstack guy and the range seems to hover around 60k for a 40hr position, which is a bummer because that's already what I'm making and I was sneakily expecting to come out ahead after a move. Luxury problems though, not like i actually need more money.
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Jul 21, 2021 12:10
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Full remote for US company? That's how I solved my last job change to get better pay 
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Jul 21, 2021 12:22
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my new job will be £68k for a principal dev role, fully remote but everyone is Belfast-based. should have held out for 1k more 
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Jul 21, 2021 12:26
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the company in question has 2 germans on it. also thanks for all the shares talk. i have a good list of questions to send them this morning barkbell fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 12:37
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Barkbell's place is so close to mine that I had to double check it isn't us My place is younger and I am reasonably sure isn't looking for angular/scala, but that's about it for differences.
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Jul 21, 2021 13:03
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Osmosisch posted:I wish there was more EU talk because I'm currently browsing for a new job and the salaries in the Netherlands at least are extremely not at the levels discussed itt. I am also a senior fullstack guy, although in Stockholm, not the Netherlands. I get 60k SEK/month plus some monopoly money stock options (company isn't public). That's about 82k USD/year base at current exchange rates; then I pay a bit over 30% of that in tax. The company is headquartered in Stockholm but also has a sizeable Palo Alto office, and my team is split across these two locations with the hiring manager in the US, so I suspect that drags the salaries up a bit. I got the impression when I was hired that I could probably have made out with even more money if I hadn't named a number first. Still I'm very happy with this, it's a shitton of money by my reckoning. IME a lot of EU companies without much of a US presence are insisting on much lower pay grades but the market is definitely moving upwards pretty quickly. We're hiring by the way, both in Stockholm and in Palo Alto, and I believe there are also remote-in-the-US and mostly-remote-in-Sweden options available (I myself am planning to go into the office 1-3 days a week in the future). Current headcount is something like 200 people, but you will definitely have heard of the company and I can pretty confidently say that our main product is good. My team is doing a rather mundane enterprise sales platform with some moderately obnoxious technical debt in golang/react/mysql (  ); the code is pretty bad (not terrible) but the people are good and I have good hopes we can turn it around. Other teams I don't know very well, I've only been here a couple of months and I haven't met that many other people yet. We're mostly hiring web peeps right now, both frontend and fullstack, but there are a few other openings on other teams as well. I'd just post a link to our jobs page but I'd prefer to stay a little bit more anonymous than that. PM's are open.
TheFluff fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 13:07
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belfast is in a pretty good place now to be a dev, it’s been touted for years now as one of the lowest-cost anglophone places to set up an office. so a bunch of expanding startups in the states as well as british companies opened up offices for dev teams. demand for developers massively outstrips supply so if you move jobs every year or two you’re almost guaranteed a big salary bump. i was making £26k 5 years ago, £36k 3 years ago, currently on £53k and moving to £68k
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Jul 21, 2021 13:16
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DELETE CASCADE posted:btw barkbell, please don't assume from our posting that you are supposed to have already understood all this poo poo. you are benefitting from decades of collective wisdom, mostly gathered from having hosed it up ourselves in the past. poo poo's complicated Yea for sure. There's so many permutations and reasons for different setups too.
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Jul 21, 2021 13:59
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Xarn posted:Full remote for US company? That's how I solved my last job change to get better pay You may be right. I do appreciate working locally but perhaps I'm selling myself short a bit. Now to find a job filter that blocks out all the blockchain bullshit
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Jul 21, 2021 14:04
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I happen to have 3 coworkers in the same city, and something like 6 more in the same country, so we sometimes meet up
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Jul 21, 2021 14:08
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hr called me asking for clarity on what i meant when i said i had a potential for 25% equity with a fortune 50 that i just had my 4th round with. i guess i was really shitfaced on monday
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Jul 21, 2021 14:47
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what did you tell them when they called you back
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Jul 21, 2021 15:26
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CarForumPoster posted:On that note heres what you should make in for a SW engineer by level and area. This assumes that the levels are 1-6 with 6 being a high technical expert. I only posted 1-5. This is for all company sizes. Generally, Seed/Aeries A round startups will be on the lower side and mega corps will be on the lower side except for the FAANGs. Do you have sources for this? I'd like to tear into it a bit since i am both in a non-hub city and not actually a dev and im definitely hitting the averages here
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Jul 21, 2021 15:28
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Private Speech posted:what did you tell them when they called you back from my understanding that is a value in percentage of pay in RSUs and that ill get more clarification in my call with them later today, also that my interview with company no3 went really well this morning lmao
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Jul 21, 2021 15:31
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Xarn posted:Full remote for US company? That's how I solved my last job change to get better pay See this sounds so nice, but for me figuring our the taxes for US -> DK, I just imagine a slow hell
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Jul 21, 2021 15:48
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lol you gotta stop using raw percentages as if they mean something. telling someone "other company will give me 25%" without telling them _of what_ is meaningless. especially if you're not sure what it means in the first place
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Jul 21, 2021 15:50
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Osmosisch posted:I wish there was more EU talk because I'm currently browsing for a new job and the salaries in the Netherlands at least are extremely not at the levels discussed itt. I'm in Hamburg and i think the average pay for a mid-level developer is around 60K as well, but this is interesting if you're interested in figgies: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/
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Jul 21, 2021 15:51
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Achmed Jones posted:lol you gotta stop using raw percentages as if they mean something. telling someone "other company will give me 25%" without telling them _of what_ is meaningless. especially if you're not sure what it means in the first place apparently i said 25% equity. i was drunk and was making it up on the spot
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Jul 21, 2021 15:54
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Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:Do you have sources for this? I'd like to tear into it a bit since i am both in a non-hub city and not actually a dev and im definitely hitting the averages here  I'm also surprised not to see Seattle on that list, although I imagine it's in the SF/NYC tier.
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Jul 21, 2021 15:56
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barkbell posted:apparently i said 25% equity. i was drunk and was making it up on the spot playing competing offers against each other is cool + good but, um, please be careful
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Jul 21, 2021 16:00
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Esposito posted:I'm in Hamburg and i think the average pay for a mid-level developer is around 60K as well, but this is interesting if you're interested in figgies: I've seen that article do the rounds every so often and it's very interesting, but also pretty depressing how few of the top paying companies in that list are even remotely ethical to work for.
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Jul 21, 2021 16:09
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ya it was dumb of me to do but uhhh yolo
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Jul 21, 2021 16:09
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Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:Do you have sources for this? none that I can share
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Jul 21, 2021 16:42
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barkbell posted:apparently i said 25% equity. i was drunk and was making it up on the spot lol
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Jul 21, 2021 17:33
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if you haven't eaten the foot in your mouth you could say 25% of your total comp is equity and your total comp is $xxx but lol for real. hopefully you didn't sound obviously drunk on the phone
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Jul 21, 2021 17:35
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barkbell posted:apparently i said 25% equity. i was drunk and was making it up on the spot i understand that. my point is that that is meaningless.
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Jul 21, 2021 17:59
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hi yes thank you for your offer, if you could come up to $125k base and a 25% ownership stake in the company i would gladly sign today
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Jul 21, 2021 19:34
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Days after I got strong feedback from all interviews they gave me a non-negotiable lowball offer. Went from "max is X but we'll make it work if we find the right candidate" to "strong yes from all interviews" to "X? Who said that? Here's an offer for X-20% and we can't go any higher". edit: I'm not bitter. I've just hired people under me for X+$30k base. Not bitter about my time being wasted at all. Pythagoras a trois fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 21:03
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