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Meshka
Nov 27, 2016

lightpole posted:

The assumption that digital currency is crypto currency is bitcoin is a bad one. Bitcoin is crypto is digital but the reverse is not necessarily true.

Normal currency has drawbacks that a central bank may not be a fan of. It can be easier to hide and move unseen or diverted on the way. In countries with corruption, accounts in citizens name with direct central bank transfers could cut down on this diversion.

As it is, everything is moving away from physical currency anyways. There is very little reason to carry cash unless you travel overseas. The advantages digital offers to central banks would make a digital currency inevitable if it came with greater control and visibility.

Finally, yes, a digital or crypto currency can offer visibility. Blockchain was invented to establish the identity of two entities anonymously and spread that through the system but that doesnt mean the anonymous part needs to remain. The biggest actual uses for it in the real world would be in places that require an extreme amount of trust, such as digital bank to bank transfers.

Just because you can't see outside of your box doesn't mean the rest of the world isn't looking.

True, but I also do not want everything I have to be at complete control of the government so they can decide they can just turn my money off. Sure it can happen now if they have a cause and try, but I can also have cash which is not tied to my name. Things are pretty convenient now, the money in your bank account is already digital, crypto is nonsense that already went way too far.

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boop the snoot
Jun 3, 2016
I don’t think crypto is ever going anywhere and I’ve been waiting for the great reckoning for crypto that SA has continuously promised longer than I’ve been waiting for Donald Trump to not be able to wriggle his way out of something.

boop the snoot
Jun 3, 2016
this was in Worthington, PA



Worthington, PA’s demographics really show why they are concerned about this:

Population est 2019: less than 600 people.

The racial makeup of the borough was 99.10% White, 0.26% African American, 0.13% Asian, 0.13% from other races, and 0.39% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.26% of the population.

Here’s a couple of others:





There were more. I saw one about China being to blame for COVID and one about how you have a choice to not be vaccinated.

There might have been even more but I was at a light and it turned green and I wanted to leave Worthington, PA.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.
Do y’all think that banks send each other suitcases of cash back and forth?

Currency went digital decades ago, and it doesn’t involve proof of work.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

maffew buildings posted:

Crypto is disruptive technology that will empower everyday people in ways traditional finance never will. Now let me tell you about how billionaire's going on suborbital joyrides and not paying taxes is critical and momentous for mankind's future and also how women pose a danger in the workplace if they're attractive

Pretty much all the people Crypto empowered were already independently wealthy. Its largely mined by companies and wealthy individuals now. Mainly because to mine it efficiently after the initial adopters, you had to have a large amount of hardware and power consumption.

Crypto is no better than fiat currency, and its only value is how much fiat currency you can exchange it for.

TheWeedNumber
Apr 20, 2020

by sebmojo

CainFortea posted:

Actually the biggest use of crypto seams to be to turn coal into solved sudokus.

I thought it was to turn drugs into money.

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

boop the snoot posted:

this was in Worthington, PA



Worthington, PA’s demographics really show why they are concerned about this:

Population est 2019: less than 600 people.

The racial makeup of the borough was 99.10% White, 0.26% African American, 0.13% Asian, 0.13% from other races, and 0.39% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.26% of the population.

It's too early to run through the math but with percentages that are multiples like that you can just tell that there are exactly two African American people, one Asian person, etc.

One wonders at their stories.

RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418

Lemniscate Blue posted:

It's too early to run through the math but with percentages that are multiples like that you can just tell that there are exactly two African American people, one Asian person, etc.

One wonders at their stories.

The 0.39% must be the children of the one asian woman or the one latina woman

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

TheWeedNumber posted:

I thought it was to turn drugs into money.

Its to turn fossil fuels into carbon emissions into "money" to buy drugs to turn drugs into "money" until some sucker can be found to turn the "money" into money.

EBB
Feb 15, 2005

Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB


FrozenVent posted:

Do y’all think that banks send each other suitcases of cash back and forth?

Currency went digital decades ago, and it doesn’t involve proof of work.

Uh…. They do? It’s like the whole purpose of the armored truck industry.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

Crab Dad posted:

Uh…. They do? It’s like the whole purpose of the armored truck industry.

Cash is a giant pain in the rear end to deal with at any kind of scale and banks and businesses both hate it

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Crab Dad posted:

Uh…. They do? It’s like the whole purpose of the armored truck industry.

I knew you'd beat me to this.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon
Next you'll tell me people still try to steal that money in rubber impersonator masks!

(All money is fiat money, be it digital or paper or crypto. The only thing that isn't fiat is capital.)

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Crab Dad posted:

Uh…. They do? It’s like the whole purpose of the armored truck industry.

Cash is a tiny, tiny proportion of interbank transactions. Like vanishingly small.

It’s all wires nowadays, and those are done over the internet. There’s still some amount of manual work involved, because when you’re moving a billion dollars, you really want to take the time there’s no typos.

PookBear
Nov 1, 2008

boop the snoot posted:

I don’t think crypto is ever going anywhere and I’ve been waiting for the great reckoning for crypto that SA has continuously promised longer than I’ve been waiting for Donald Trump to not be able to wriggle his way out of something.

I don't think crypto will ever go away, but its never going to be adopted. Its just going to become our generation's version scratch off tickets

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Things looking bad in Tunisia
https://twitter.com/timurkuran/status/1419515064223162371?s=19

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

FrozenVent posted:

Cash is a tiny, tiny proportion of interbank transactions. Like vanishingly small.

It’s all wires nowadays, and those are done over the internet. There’s still some amount of manual work involved, because when you’re moving a billion dollars, you really want to take the time there’s no typos.

About 1/4 of the M2 dollars are in physical form. Of that, 1/2 - 2/3 are held overseas. You're not wrong that most of this is happening digitally, but there is a massive industry of moving physical cash from place to place, including from bank to bank. I was on the Federal Reserve route for my company, which managed the central vault for almost every bank in the state and several outside it. It's a fraction of what's out there digitally, but it's a lot of loving cash money.

Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB


FrozenVent posted:

Cash is a tiny, tiny proportion of interbank transactions. Like vanishingly small.

It’s all wires nowadays, and those are done over the internet. There’s still some amount of manual work involved, because when you’re moving a billion dollars, you really want to take the time there’s no typos.

I don’t think you realize truly how much money gets moved around. I’d barely bat an eye at having to transfer 500 million in a single truck from the central cash processing bank to our distribution point. Armored truck companies are in the business of shorting the pipe by rerouting deposits right back to customers and we still had to have massive influx of cash from the banks and sometimes the feds.

The amount may be tiny on paper but it’s still a huge amount in practice.

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011

Crypto has two use cases that are in tension with each other. Crypto as commodity wants the value to keep going up up up. Crypto as currency wants the value to be stable. In Fiat currencies, the currency use case is dominant. Crypto has the commodity use case as dominant, leading to all the problems that led everyone to move to fiat in the first place.

But it gets the worst people alive rich at the cost of a few rainforests worth of co2 for no other social benefit, so it's impossible to say if it's good or not

boop the snoot
Jun 3, 2016
Who wore it better?

https://twitter.com/shugknite/status/1419481485908742147?s=21

https://twitter.com/naotodeniiro/status/1419486745108824065?s=21

SquirrelyPSU
May 27, 2003


boop the snoot posted:

this was in Worthington, PA



Worthington, PA’s demographics really show why they are concerned about this:

Population est 2019: less than 600 people.

The racial makeup of the borough was 99.10% White, 0.26% African American, 0.13% Asian, 0.13% from other races, and 0.39% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.26% of the population.

Here’s a couple of others:





There were more. I saw one about China being to blame for COVID and one about how you have a choice to not be vaccinated.

There might have been even more but I was at a light and it turned green and I wanted to leave Worthington, PA.

You picked a really dumb part of PA. Unfortunately, there are worse.

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

boop the snoot posted:

this was in Worthington, PA



Worthington, PA’s demographics really show why they are concerned about this:

Population est 2019: less than 600 people.

The racial makeup of the borough was 99.10% White, 0.26% African American, 0.13% Asian, 0.13% from other races, and 0.39% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.26% of the population.

A friend lives in a island community mostly based around tourism and retirees. 92.6% white, 0.3% African American. They had a lot of drama last year when a handful of BLM signs were repeatedly vandalized by a 78 year old small business owner until he finally got arrested. Dude lives in one of the most lily white spots in the country and is more likely to spot an orca whale each day than a black person and still the concept of them existing is enough to drive him into a rage.

piL
Sep 20, 2007
(__|\\\\)
Taco Defender
Some of the appeal of crypto is the promise of a currency not tied to state power. There are other ways to accomplish this than via crypto, but other ideas require someone to run them and the organizations running them are as vulnerable to force as a state bank is to the demands of its own state.

States aren't sure if this is a good idea or a bad idea, as clearly removing power from the dollar helps most states that aren't the US, but internally currency control is a vital part of many states strategies and removing that lever can be problematic, though likely more transparent.

Companies and other nonstate actors see opportunities to manage their own currencies. Given that plenty of companies are responsible for more economic activity than many states, access to those same traditionally state-owned levers is appealing (see the Facebook Libre).

I think crypto in its grossly inefficient current form will go the way of the beanie baby since it adds about the same level of value, but the mechanisms in their design may have some other useful applications, and the desire for a headless currency probably isn't going anywhere.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Crab Dad posted:

The amount may be tiny on paper but it’s still a huge amount in practice.

A small fraction of a ridiculously large number is still huge. :retrogames:

That Works
Jul 22, 2006

Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy



I love it.


Midjack posted:

A small fraction of a ridiculously large number is still huge. :retrogames:

Also this. Cash transports are a big deal and high volume, but still a small portion of non-cash transactions.

It serves to illustrate the point that that our present currency works just fine digitally.

CRUSTY MINGE
Mar 30, 2011

Peggy Hill
Foot Connoisseur
Isn't a lot of cash just sitting around at federal reserve banks and vaults, and they just change the name on who owns what pile as money shifts from bank to bank?

I seem to remember this kinda being the case.

US Berder Patrol
Jul 11, 2006

oorah

CRUSTY MINGE posted:

Isn't a lot of cash just sitting around at federal reserve banks and vaults, and they just change the name on who owns what pile as money shifts from bank to bank?

I seem to remember this kinda being the case.

actually it's piles of gold bars as I learned from the film Die Hard: With a Vengeance

CRUSTY MINGE
Mar 30, 2011

Peggy Hill
Foot Connoisseur
I was thinking more along the lines of Modern Marvels: Fort Knox, but to each their own on bullion storage.

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT
https://twitter.com/VICENews/status/1419697649398304769?s=19


:smith:

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

piL posted:

Some of the appeal of crypto is the promise of a currency not tied to state power.

Narrator: That promise was a lie

That Works
Jul 22, 2006

Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy


https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1418676246003818496?s=20

Hyrax Attack!
Jan 13, 2009

We demand to be taken seriously

US Berder Patrol posted:

actually it's piles of gold bars as I learned from the film Die Hard: With a Vengeance

That movies owns up until the last 10 minutes. So many great NYC set pieces but the grand finale is at a Quebec border crossing? It was weird how his goons are still plentiful and armed with plenty of guns ready to fight and they just don't show what happens to them when they go charging out in the trucks.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

CRUSTY MINGE posted:

Isn't a lot of cash just sitting around at federal reserve banks and vaults, and they just change the name on who owns what pile as money shifts from bank to bank?

I seem to remember this kinda being the case.

In some cases yes, but nowadays it’s mostly a database type deal. I like to think it’s one big excel spreadsheet.

It’s entirely possible for, say, Royal Bank of Canada to borrow a billion from the Bank of Canada, sell that billion CAD for 800 million USD to the Royal Bank of Scotland who loans it to Lloyd’s Bank to disburse as a loan to ABC Constructions to buy a parcel of land from XYZ Holdings without a single paper dollar moving.

This happens inside of a few hours, at most, and could be automated in theory.

Milo and POTUS
Sep 3, 2017

I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?
Wait I thought he went to Germany at the end or was that an alternate ending

UP THE BUM NO BABY
Sep 1, 2011

by Hand Knit

Milo and POTUS posted:

Wait I thought he went to Germany at the end or was that an alternate ending

wut

eta: reading the alternate ending on Wikipedia, poo poo is wild


quote:

An alternative ending to the one shown in the final movie was filmed with Jeremy Irons and Bruce Willis, set some time after the events in New York. It can be found on the Special Edition DVD. In this version it is presumed that the robbery succeeds, and that McClane was used as the scapegoat for everything that went wrong. He is fired from the NYPD after more than 20 years on the force and the FBI has even taken away his pension. Nevertheless, he still manages to track Simon using the batch number on the bottle of aspirins and they meet in a bar in Hungary. In this version, Simon has double-crossed most of his accomplices, gotten the loot to a safe hiding place somewhere in Hungary, and has the gold turned into statuettes of the Empire State Building in order to smuggle it out of the country; but he is still tracked down to his foreign hideaway. McClane is keen to take his problems out on Simon, who he invites to play a game called "McClane Says". This involves a form of Russian roulette with a small Chinese rocket launcher that has had the sights removed, meaning it is impossible to determine which end is which. McClane then asks Simon some riddles similar to the ones he played in New York. When Simon gets a riddle wrong, McClane forces him at gunpoint to fire the launcher, which fires the rocket through Simon, killing him.[16][17]

In the DVD audio commentary, screenwriter Jonathan Hensleigh claims that this version was dropped because the studio thought it showed a more cruel and menacing side to McClane, a man who killed for revenge rather than in self-defense. The studio was also displeased with the lack of action in the scene, feeling that it did not fit as a "climax" and therefore chose to reshoot the finale as an action sequence at a significant monetary cost. Hensleigh's intention was to show that the events in New York and the subsequent repercussions had tilted McClane psychologically. This alternative ending, set some time after the film's main events, would have marked a serious break from the Die Hard formula, in which the plot unfolds over a period of roughly 12 hours.[17]

According to the DVD audio commentary, a second alternative ending had McClane and Carver floating back to shore on a makeshift raft after the explosion at sea. Carver says it is a shame the bad guys are going to get away; McClane tells him not to be so sure. The scene then shifts to the plane where the terrorists find the briefcase bomb they left in the park and which Carver gave back to them (in this version it was not used to blow up the dam). The film would end on a darkly comic note as Simon asks if anyone has a four-gallon jug. This draft of the script was rejected early on - possibly due to the similarity of the ending to Die Hard 2, where all the villains board a plane that later explodes - so it was never actually filmed. The rocket-launcher sequence was the only alternative ending to be filmed.[17]

UP THE BUM NO BABY fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jul 26, 2021

Wasabi the J
Jan 23, 2008

MOM WAS RIGHT
https://twitter.com/jason_koebler/status/1419661153278513157

I have never ceased to be amazed by the depravity of the police state holy poo poo.

Hekk
Oct 12, 2012

'smeper fi

FrozenVent posted:

In some cases yes, but nowadays it’s mostly a database type deal. I like to think it’s one big excel spreadsheet.

It’s entirely possible for, say, Royal Bank of Canada to borrow a billion from the Bank of Canada, sell that billion CAD for 800 million USD to the Royal Bank of Scotland who loans it to Lloyd’s Bank to disburse as a loan to ABC Constructions to buy a parcel of land from XYZ Holdings without a single paper dollar moving.

This happens inside of a few hours, at most, and could be automated in theory.

My one semester of macro economics taught me that the federal reserve controls the rate of inflation in the US by adjusting how much physical currency banks are required to keep on hand. If inflation ticks up at an increasing rate, the fed can increase the percentage of total deposits that must be cash.

That is supposed to slow the generation of new money since there is far less actual printed currency than there are 1s and 0s floating around saying they are money.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.
Not really, bank “reserves” are pretty much digital nowadays.

A mid sized bank is swinging billions of dollars back and forth every day, there’s no way the physical currency could keep up.

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RFC2324
Jun 7, 2012

http 418

FrozenVent posted:

Not really, bank “reserves” are pretty much digital nowadays.

A mid sized bank is swinging billions of dollars back and forth every day, there’s no way the physical currency could keep up.

I think what they are saying is that the bank has to keep X% of its account value(usually calculated at EOB) in physical cash, partly to prevent runs on the banks causing a banking collapse.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/requiredreserves.asp

Apparently it was set to 0% in March 2020 :thunk:

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