Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar
Everybody who has played this game seems to suggest that the apparent difficulty of the three storytellers is backwards, in that the chill one tends to be the most difficult and randy ends up being the easiest one. Have to say that being able to change all of that (and the difficulty scaling) whenever was a really solid design choice.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


goferchan posted:

I swear it wasn't letting me claim them, maybe because there were still hostiles on the map? I'll double check next time, thank you
Yeah the map has to be clear of hostiles to claim stuff. But can always just destroy the doors/walls if need be. :toot:

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Zamujasa posted:

Everybody who has played this game seems to suggest that the apparent difficulty of the three storytellers is backwards, in that the chill one tends to be the most difficult and randy ends up being the easiest one. Have to say that being able to change all of that (and the difficulty scaling) whenever was a really solid design choice.

Cassandra(the default) tends to be the hardest, not Phoebe(the chill one). Phoebe is basically Cassandra but with longer breaks between big threats.

Randy is only "easier" if you're planning to keep a colony going indefinitely, because Cassandra/Phoebe's infinite raid scaling really only starts surpassing Randy's raid scaling once you're obscenely wealthy and have been around for a while. Up until that point, Randy can be easier or much, much harder depending on what the RNG gives you - Cassandra can't throw three raids at you three days in a row six months into your colony's life span like Randy can, for example.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
The big reason Randy is easier is because he doesn’t give a poo poo how long it has been since your last threat so you can easily have a week long break between raids and that’s no big deal. Cassie will start itching for blood every like 3 days and you can pretty much set your watch to the threat timer she has.

lunar detritus
May 6, 2009


one disadvantage of pens: they have no roof

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007
Switchblade Switcharoo

Coolguye posted:

The big reason Randy is easier is because he doesn’t give a poo poo how long it has been since your last threat so you can easily have a week long break between raids and that’s no big deal. Cassie will start itching for blood every like 3 days and you can pretty much set your watch to the threat timer she has.

Doesn't she send raids on fixed intervals?

I tend to find Phoebe harder mostly due to how fast she escalates. It's the same raid calcs as Cassandra but longer between raids. So while with Cassandra you're raided all the time, each raid is just a little harder than the last, but with Phoebe you'll go from 5 naked dudes with clubs to 40 centipedes

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

Azhais posted:

Doesn't she send raids on fixed intervals?

I tend to find Phoebe harder mostly due to how fast she escalates. It's the same raid calcs as Cassandra but longer between raids. So while with Cassandra you're raided all the time, each raid is just a little harder than the last, but with Phoebe you'll go from 5 naked dudes with clubs to 40 centipedes

she sends 'major bad events' on fixed intervals. through the midgame especially this will not necessarily be a raid as there are lots of major bad events she can choose from, from toxic fallout to a complex crop blight. but after you have 'sky-high expectations' her option pool bleeds down to only a couple options, and raid is at the top of that list because she can scale it arbitrarily.

randy not only decides randomly when to send you bad events, he always chooses based on the whole pool. cassie and phoebe will never just go "lol mad rat" in year 3. randy can choose to do that whenever he pleases. naturally, the other side to this is that randy can absolutely choose to send a volcanic winter and a raid in short order, so your raid is hitting while you're short on power from the dimmed light. he can also choose to send toxic fallout on day 3. cassie will never do these things.

Coolguye fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Jul 31, 2021

Twibbit
Mar 7, 2013

Is your refrigerator running?
This is why I put a small shack/barn in my pen

Danaru
Jun 5, 2012

何 ??
https://twitter.com/NoContextTrek/status/1421619228587798528

LonsomeSon
Nov 22, 2009

A fishperson in an intimidating hat!

That’s some pretty loving serious hail! Like, grapefruit sized, to gently caress up animals like that

e:
I’ve been thinking about this constantly as I grind through my transhumanist Archonexus run

Anno
May 10, 2017

I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!

Got a man hunter pack of 10 second generation fission mice. Thankfully the ones they split into aren’t also manhunting, and man was that a haul of meat/fur. 30 tiny rats all milling about my front door. It was like the old alpha beaver event in terms of sudden meat generation.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006



Geeze, I didn't even have to reroll this map once

isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

Coolguye posted:

ah so you're meaning the truly top tier map sizes to solve this particular issue. i dunno that i really agree with that, though i see the logic. i also think that there's definitely some non upper limits on strategic resources on maps, such as geothermal vents and anima trees. there's always 4 vents and 1 anima, and if your map is 2DMAXX HUEG those will be a lot more onerous to capture.

i concur with walling in most of your farm area in general, but a fistful of changes in 1.3 has made it either less important or undesirable in general - there's no concern about animals grazing your farmland when you have to keep them penned up now, for example. and besides, it's not like you can't take a similar thought process into account with your farming plots and have those be part of your integrated defense, like so:



modifications can be made to the connected/walled ends or the door placement to taste, of course. it'd be fine to disconnect the walls that are currently blocking off the hemispheres of the pillbox to allow a greater firing arc, but depending on your design that might not be desirable. if you wanted to put these up against one another because your blight mitigation strategy is to use a wall rather than 3 tiles of distance you'd definitely not want to do that, but even in that case the pillboxes would be pulling at least double duty covering two farmlands. if your fields are no more than about 30x30 you can honestly just put one pillbox in the middle of the entire plot and have one pillbox covering all of your fields with about 3 turrets apiece, which by my testing is enough to consistently resist about 4 unarmored enemy pawns if there is sufficient desiccant cover and they're not carrying particularly nasty equipment (chain shotguns and sniper rifles have a bad habit of changing this equation pretty fast).

regarding beauty, you'd be surprised how little that matters in general because beauty is reacted to much the same way that food is reacted to. someone can be ravenously hungry or starving, and when they eat a meal, they get an instant hit of food satiation, but they REMAIN hungry for a few ticks while the satiation bar fills. addiction bars work the same way, and beauty also works this way. what this means is that pawns won't give a poo poo about moving past ugly environments as long as they don't STAY there. traps in your main roadways are another example of this and how little it actually matters:



this is my standard early game (first quadrum or two) build, which incorporates defense in depth by giving my pawns multiple places to do fire and fall back tactics against early raids when i might not have walls up at all, let alone reinforced. the absolute ugliest part of this, the heart of the square here where you can see 8 sandbags and 8 traps, has a beauty of -3.2. It requires a beauty of -4 to get 'unsightly environment -5', and a beauty of -5 to get 'ugly environment -10' and a beauty of -6 to get 'hideous environment -15'. Even hanging out here, you will not get bad moodlets.

Conversely, the two slots between the toolchests in the great hall will get you +5 if they are filled with normal large statues, +10 if they are filled with good, and +15 if they are filled with excellent - mix and match to how much art your early game colonists have, even someone who's 3 or so will kick out a normal sculpture with ok regularity. the only thing all the ugliness in the street means is that it takes a bit longer for people to crest that beauty threshold and actually get the moodlet. i would show it off but i cannot actually create installed statues with the dev tools and since i destroyed all my pawns to run trials the colony is considered dead and nothing i do can give me another controllable pawn. whoops!

none of my designs are so elegant and you do dishonor to the star fort by implying otherwise sir

I too love geothermal energy for that sweet sustained passive power, but the closer you get to endgame the less important they are. They're amazing in the early- and mid-game when pawn labor is stretched thin, but late-game they're never enough to sustain your entire base anyways and are one of the worst generators from a space efficiency perspective (100w per tile is frankly awful). I'll use them if RNG puts them in a useful place, but I'm not going to complain about not having one inside my base to gently caress up all my building placement either (gently caress that 6x6 footprint, absolutely nothing goes with it and you can't share the room unless it's permanent winter because the geyser keeps dumping heat).

I still think it's worth full walling farms in 1.3, fences are a cheap early game option but get shot up by accident really easily and don't control raider movement (or even all animal movement since a lot of modded stuff like Alpha Animals don't respect fences). My farms tend to plotted out in 11x11 areas for easy conversion into sunlamp greenhouses, so when toxic fallout hits I can just slam that roof zoning and lose very little (worst case it buys me a few days to get my poo poo in order before ordering a pre-mature harvest because I can't afford the sunlamps).

Countering four pawns worth of raiders for that amount of space and steel investment in your turret box sounds pretty rough, not gonna lie. I think for the most part having stone walls to force the raiders break out of my fields already buy me enough time that steel for turrets isn't necessary, but depending on the approach angles the raiders have maybe that little bit of extra damage is worth it.

Beauty isn't important by itself, but it's still a moodlet and that final mood score is what matters. Farmwork takes a lot of time, so the less ugly the fields are the less likely my growers have a mental break because of stacking penalties from banishing an 80yo pyromaniac wanderer during a psychic drone while they're working in the rain or whatever. I also don't think Beauty works quite as you're describing - the area's beauty score is a slow drain or growth on the pawn's need level, and you don't need to hit arbitrary visible beauty numbers to get to the bad moodlets. Though it also drains a lot slower than it increases so I'm probably overestimating the impact of having a bunch of turrets in the fields, but it still sucks to go from +15 Gorgeous after breakfast in the rec room to +5 Pretty after only a few hours in the fields.

Coolguye posted:

Assuming lsndl is correct about unpowered turrets being important for the sake of calculated battle power, the SOP would be to keep the generators off while no threat is on the map, so extra fuel wouldn’t be as interesting. A full load lasts 6 days, which might end up being the better part of a year in practice. I should probably check that assumption because if that’s not the case what you point out here is hella true. You’d likely still want like half of your pillboxes off at any one time just to minimize resource use, but a few you would want on all the time.

Looking into that, it seems like that's info from an old version of Rimworld and no longer a thing in current patch. But unpowered turrets do still matter for sapper routing, so leaving a couple in the fields could be useful for that. Maybe even worth leaving unpowered turrets in other random places in your base? But with breacher raids now being a thing maybe not.

LonsomeSon posted:

…it just seems to me that by the time someone is building out nine-turret pillboxes for contingency defense, they really ought to have the resources not to need to use flammable cloth as part of their fortifications.

If I’ve got little nooks where enemies may give fire while in full cover, my defensive perimeter is Wrong, regardless of which stage between “some scattered full cover for us in the approach vector” and “killbox” it is at any given time. The Correct approach is to carve that rough stone flat and establish trapped cover positions in my field of fire, because the defensive works is the third highest possible priority after “stop every pawn’s bleeding” and having enough food to live until the next harvest.

I can see the merit of using extra textiles you have around for sacrificial cover…except Wood is actually the most renewable resource unless on a tile where textile farming or ranching will also be difficult, and is substantially less lucrative per kilo to export. Wooden barricades in my killbox provide enemies who are not yet on fire with 5% better cover, until they’re on fire, which is one of the main goals of my built defensive works.

I think I might experiment a bit with a modification of these turret block (not star! perish the thought) forts as delaying-action positions outside the main defenses, when I hand over my current settlement and research for another Archonexus fragment.

Oh sure, for the turret pillbox you probably want stone or plasteel barricades for the higher HP values. I was just thinking about the general use case, for early game defenses I'm already running out of stone blocks getting my walls and flooring laid down and I'm sure as hell not building my defenses out of wood. You're correct that a proper killbox should have the area dug out for zero attacker cover, but if my pawns are too busy with everything else I might decide a handful of cloth and quick construction time is an okay stopgap, the alternative is digging things out to a 30 tile range or building new walls. One sandbag to turn a hard corner into a soft corner, or a dozen granite walls to get far enough away that the hard corner is out of range.

Wood is renewable like cloth but gets used for more important things, like furniture or keeping those loving braziers lit. It's also only "most renewable" if you include the whole map as your source, and I find that quickly turns into diminishing returns due to travel and hauling times. I find it's easier to just have a big cotton plot for the first year and then leave a small plot going constantly after that, using excess for item requests where value doesn't matter. I think you might have the wrong stats on sandbags vs barricades though, sandbags shouldn't be flammable and both of them should have identical cover scores.

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014

Holy poo poo Rimatomics is magnificent. Shame its so lategame, a lil reactor would be nice.

LonsomeSon
Nov 22, 2009

A fishperson in an intimidating hat!

Yeah that’s fully fair; I was referring to one of the posted pillboxes which used a lot of sandbags but on checking my post I completely failed to specify that!

I prefer to play maps with a creek or river running through them, initially for water wheels when they came out but now because it allows me to use curtain walls to funnel most raids into coming at me through the water, meaning more time to gear up and rush all of the roombas and quadcopters back to their base stations. Termites and breaching axes are making it a lot less reliable, though, thus the attractive nature of putting maybe some mini versions of these self-powered pillbox designs outside the curtain walls, near raid spawn points, as speed bumps. With luck, most of the breach pawns will be hosed up or killed, or maybe getting engaged will blap their pathing over to another protocol. An enby can dream, anyway.

Starting fresh on a new map with five armored and chromed fighters (I’m ready to score my next fragment but I’m holding out for a refit to Advanced Bionic limbs and spines) really changes the dynamic, though. This first time, my initial fights were decently-equipped sieges and raids of about a dozen outlanders, or 18ish tribal pawns, but we landed with three railguns and two Persona weapons, as well as sundry other poo poo including a jump pack for everyone. It lets the melee pawns close without having to get plinked through their powered armor, and the snipers safely make large relocations to do poo poo like flank at range, which actually results in outnumbered defenders being able to do enough damage rapidly enough, with good maneuvering, to selectively ruin the most dangerous pawns in a raid before they take enough damage to seriously impact their combat effectiveness.

e: with regard to flammability of sandbags, I distinctly recall burning sandbags which were built by siege raids, but it was some time ago. With regard to the cover score, I checked it on the RimWorld wiki, not in the game.

LonsomeSon fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Aug 1, 2021

lunar detritus
May 6, 2009


Dandywalken posted:

Holy poo poo Rimatomics is magnificent. Shame its so lategame, a lil reactor would be nice.

That's why you start with oil with rimefeller and then switch to nuclear :getin:

lunar detritus fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Aug 1, 2021

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Dandywalken posted:

Holy poo poo Rimatomics is magnificent. Shame its so lategame, a lil reactor would be nice.

You can get going with a simple rimatomics reactor in midgame if you focus on it, I'll usually rush rimatomics as soon as I get a quest with basically any significant amount of uranium as a reward. You can start out with just a few fuel rods and add more later as your power needs grow

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Yeah while a lot of the content scales into the lategame, the actual reactor is not too hard to build if you can devote a bit of research time to it, and you can always skimp out on building a proper containment building for it, what's the worst that can happen? :v:

isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

LonsomeSon posted:

e: with regard to flammability of sandbags, I distinctly recall burning sandbags which were built by siege raids, but it was some time ago. With regard to the cover score, I checked it on the RimWorld wiki, not in the game.

When you're throwing around molotovs and whatnot you can start a fire on any tile, it'll just go out real quick if the tile doesn't have anything flammable on it. I'm looking at the wiki right now and both pages mention the two being interchangeable aside from materials used with 57% cover for both, although it's showing 55% for me in-game so I don't know if something is up there. :shrug:

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007


Yeah the smallest rimatomics reactor is not that much work for a fairly big return. It only gets crazy if you're going all-in on one of the giant monster ones.

SugarAddict
Oct 11, 2012
I just played ideology for the first time. Temper tantrum spiral, one colonist died from infection because he wouldn't stay in the drat bed, other one survived simply because the infection incapacitated them so they could stay in the bed.

Permeant -10 mood debuff from not having their preferred weapon (better than fists you dumbass).
Not having pants and pants are required? enjoy being hated by all the other colonists and sometimes beat up and insulted because of it and everyone dislikes you because of it (you just crash landed, you would be lucky to come out alive, let alone having pants).

Wanderer wants to join? Enjoy them hating everyone and everyone else hating them because of different ideologies in the early game.

Gonna start a new game and give all my starting colonists mood increasing stuff.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

Does anyone remember the name of the mod that gives you warnings for future raid several days in advance?

SugarAddict
Oct 11, 2012

Jack Trades posted:

Does anyone remember the name of the mod that gives you warnings for future raid several days in advance?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2056230561

Preeptive strike. Rimtronics also does it.

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG
GIVE ME YOUR SKULLS I NEED THEM



e: this is my kind of killbox :black101:



the traps are really just there for wandering animals to keep them from getting into my crops, it's the archers doing all the work.

Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Aug 1, 2021

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It's wild seeing you with so many colonists, I know that's tribal MO but I have eight dudes and it's year 12.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

isndl posted:

I too love geothermal energy for that sweet sustained passive power, but the closer you get to endgame the less important they are. They're amazing in the early- and mid-game when pawn labor is stretched thin, but late-game they're never enough to sustain your entire base anyways and are one of the worst generators from a space efficiency perspective (100w per tile is frankly awful). I'll use them if RNG puts them in a useful place, but I'm not going to complain about not having one inside my base to gently caress up all my building placement either (gently caress that 6x6 footprint, absolutely nothing goes with it and you can't share the room unless it's permanent winter because the geyser keeps dumping heat).

geothermal is almost always ignored by enemies if they're behind a wall for a confluence of reasons, the main curious part is how you secure the conduits that go far across the map. ideally you drop stone walls on top of them and provide semi-frequent roofed openings to act as a firebreak. the engineering problem is a little obnoxious, but compared to the engineering problems of making a proper solar/wind array with appropriate battery backups it seems super trivial, idk

[/quote]I still think it's worth full walling farms in 1.3, fences are a cheap early game option but get shot up by accident really easily and don't control raider movement (or even all animal movement since a lot of modded stuff like Alpha Animals don't respect fences). My farms tend to plotted out in 11x11 areas for easy conversion into sunlamp greenhouses, so when toxic fallout hits I can just slam that roof zoning and lose very little (worst case it buys me a few days to get my poo poo in order before ordering a pre-mature harvest because I can't afford the sunlamps).[/quote]
i'd agree it's still worth doing eventually, but i think the build priority makes walling stuff less important. since DiD continues to get emphasized every time tynan makes a major change it's important to keep a flexible defense strategy in mind. having a pillbox around to force an opening your pawns can exploit early on is much more important in 1.3 vs 1.2.

quote:

Countering four pawns worth of raiders for that amount of space and steel investment in your turret box sounds pretty rough, not gonna lie. I think for the most part having stone walls to force the raiders break out of my fields already buy me enough time that steel for turrets isn't necessary, but depending on the approach angles the raiders have maybe that little bit of extra damage is worth it.
the extra bit of damage is precisely the point, though. nobody thinks that you're automating your defenses in this day and age - the builds of one turret or turret nest holding up a raid wave ended before 1.0. honestly, soling four raiders with consistency is better than most turret configurations have been doing for a while just because miniturrets are so loving bad compared to where they used to be. and, speaking of, stone walls are just not the impediment they used to be. i got my first eyeful of a breaching hammer today, and even a granite wall just melts under its assault. i'm sure you can make something work using the wall mazes we all know and love, but it's gonna get super messy, which is the last thing anyone needs in rimworld - the combat is plenty lethal enough, thanks.

quote:

Beauty isn't important by itself, but it's still a moodlet and that final mood score is what matters. Farmwork takes a lot of time, so the less ugly the fields are the less likely my growers have a mental break because of stacking penalties from banishing an 80yo pyromaniac wanderer during a psychic drone while they're working in the rain or whatever. I also don't think Beauty works quite as you're describing - the area's beauty score is a slow drain or growth on the pawn's need level, and you don't need to hit arbitrary visible beauty numbers to get to the bad moodlets. Though it also drains a lot slower than it increases so I'm probably overestimating the impact of having a bunch of turrets in the fields, but it still sucks to go from +15 Gorgeous after breakfast in the rec room to +5 Pretty after only a few hours in the fields.
the emphasized point is not correct. if that were true, you would be rolling with -15 hideous environment very often in the early game when you have dirt floors and lovely bedrooms because you're popping everything else up. dirt is -1 beauty, so nature by default is actually pretty ugly. instead of pissing pawns off, though, it just ends up being neutral after it's hit its equilibrium point.

my larger point is, if you are concerned about beauty, integrated security features are not going to be what gets you. what gets you is gonna be filth and dirt, all of which are a minimum of -15. if you're working in 11x11 setups, though, and are willing to sacrifice 2 of your 100 plots under a sunlamp, two excellent wooden or marble statues flanking the sunlamp will always be visible no matter where someone is in the field and will definitely give at least +5, even if three turrets from a pillbox are also visible. but i definitely think that definitely gets into the wealth problem you were talking about and you're definitely not getting +beauty moodlets outdoors without the statues.

quote:

Looking into that, it seems like that's info from an old version of Rimworld and no longer a thing in current patch. But unpowered turrets do still matter for sapper routing, so leaving a couple in the fields could be useful for that. Maybe even worth leaving unpowered turrets in other random places in your base? But with breacher raids now being a thing maybe not.
that's unfortunate. i was aware that unpowered turrets change breach routing and have used that in the past to encourage breachers to go through my usual defensive perimeter instead of attacking an actually soft spot in my fortifications. this worked great, but breachers in general are now a lot more willing to just blow straight through multiple layers of walls than they used to be because the specialized tools make it so much quicker than the click click click poo poo they used to do.

quote:

Oh sure, for the turret pillbox you probably want stone or plasteel barricades for the higher HP values. I was just thinking about the general use case, for early game defenses I'm already running out of stone blocks getting my walls and flooring laid down and I'm sure as hell not building my defenses out of wood. You're correct that a proper killbox should have the area dug out for zero attacker cover, but if my pawns are too busy with everything else I might decide a handful of cloth and quick construction time is an okay stopgap, the alternative is digging things out to a 30 tile range or building new walls. One sandbag to turn a hard corner into a soft corner, or a dozen granite walls to get far enough away that the hard corner is out of range.
so i actually disagree on this point and i am glad you responded to it because i missed that post originally

i completely agree that for killboxes and such, you want stone barricades. if a pawn is going to be covering nearby, the last god drat thing they need is some dickhead throwing a molotov or a centipede firing an inferno cannon and setting their cover on fire. forget the loss of cover, the problem is the embers flicking out from that and threatening to set the pawn alight while they're trying to shoot. the trick is, for a pillbox, these tables are actually turned. miniturrets don't give a poo poo about fire or heat, and the sandbag being on fire actually makes it really hazardous to storm the turret because any melee pawn approaching it is likely to catch. if the area around the pillbox is too sensitive to risk a wildfire, no problem, just extend the rooftop out at least 3 tiles from the sandbags to act as a firebreak.

these pillboxes, again, are a distraction. ablative armor. it is understood that they are going to get hosed up, broken apart, and need repair because they are ablative armor. the entire deal is that we are buying pawn parts and lives with steel, components, stone, and cloth. this wasn't needed before because breaching raids were pretty easy to control, but that's changed. further, this is not a piece for your end game, defend the ship holdout. that's a completely different build with completely different values and goals. however, given that context, if someone wants to set the cover on fire and provide an easy way for storming pawns to pick up some extra burns and run around in a panic for a little while longer, more power to them. i'd set the sandbags on fire by flicking a switch inside the pillbox if i could.

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

Coolguye posted:

the extra bit of damage is precisely the point, though. nobody thinks that you're automating your defenses in this day and age - the builds of one turret or turret nest holding up a raid wave ended before 1.0. honestly, soling four raiders with consistency is better than most turret configurations have been doing for a while just because miniturrets are so loving bad compared to where they used to be. and, speaking of, stone walls are just not the impediment they used to be. i got my first eyeful of a breaching hammer today, and even a granite wall just melts under its assault. i'm sure you can make something work using the wall mazes we all know and love, but it's gonna get super messy, which is the last thing anyone needs in rimworld - the combat is plenty lethal enough, thanks.

not a big fan of the whole "every raid will tear up your base as bad as possible" motif going on in this iteration of the game but I've never been reluctant to just mod that poo poo out when it stops being fun.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

I don't see any reason to play anything other than Randy unless you're for some reason you're primarily interested in the tower defense gameplay.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

For the outer walls could you do something like alternating layers of sandbags and traps? The sandbag walls stop animals from wandering into the traps, the traps take out anyone who mines through the wall.

metasynthetic
Dec 2, 2005

in one moment, Earth

in the next, Heaven

Megamarm
Does anyone know why my ideology room isn't working?



The minified stuff is just me subtracting things to see if they were somehow interfering.

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG
what's not working about it exactly, not every ritual can be started from the altar.

gently caress yeah brain powers :psypop:

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

metasynthetic posted:

Does anyone know why my ideology room isn't working?



The minified stuff is just me subtracting things to see if they were somehow interfering.

It looks like it's missing a "Conference Table" which I'm guessing is maybe the name of a venerated sculpture your ideology has which would need to be created at an art bench?

metasynthetic
Dec 2, 2005

in one moment, Earth

in the next, Heaven

Megamarm
Checked that, there's no such option at the art bench. Here's the listing on the ideology tab where it just says its a medium altar (which I manually renamed):

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

metasynthetic posted:

Checked that, there's no such option at the art bench. Here's the listing on the ideology tab where it just says its a medium altar (which I manually renamed):



Did you build the altar in that room or did you buy it? Normally your specific buildings show the name of the building. Because altars/ideograms/sculptures are not interchangeable between ideologies.

If you bought an altar I don't think that meets the requirements, you should have the option to build specifically a "conference table" somewhere and when you select it it will say it is related to your ideology.

metasynthetic
Dec 2, 2005

in one moment, Earth

in the next, Heaven

Megamarm
Figured it out, turns out there's a basic 'medium altar' you can build in the Misc menu, and a totally separate 'medium altar (conference table)' option which I missed, you can guess which one I didn't pick!

unrelated edit: rng hit a home run

metasynthetic fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Aug 1, 2021

isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

Coolguye posted:

the extra bit of damage is precisely the point, though. nobody thinks that you're automating your defenses in this day and age - the builds of one turret or turret nest holding up a raid wave ended before 1.0. honestly, soling four raiders with consistency is better than most turret configurations have been doing for a while just because miniturrets are so loving bad compared to where they used to be. and, speaking of, stone walls are just not the impediment they used to be. i got my first eyeful of a breaching hammer today, and even a granite wall just melts under its assault. i'm sure you can make something work using the wall mazes we all know and love, but it's gonna get super messy, which is the last thing anyone needs in rimworld - the combat is plenty lethal enough, thanks.

So I fired up a test map in dev mode, and the efficiency of the turret box unsurprisingly varies according to the raiders' faction. Tribals have no armor and lovely weapons so it's mostly a question of whether or not they're bringing breachers, which seems to start becoming more common at higher point values. A pirate can drat near solo the box if he has frag grenades, but a standard composition of mostly guns tends to win unless they go for a multi-prong surround so all the turrets can contribute simultaneously. Mechanoids are almost a fair fight except when there's a Termite, then the thump cannon just ruins everything. In terms of point values I tested mostly the 500-1000 range, with the turrets usually but not always winning at 500 and usually losing at 1000.

Instead of a maxed out 12 turret bunker, I'm liking an 8 turret cross-shape design a little more. It handles a slightly fewer but similar number of raiders because it has more open fields of fire without all the separators, and costs less to replace when you lose the whole thing because the raiders got into melee range. You do sometimes lose a second turret on a facing when the first one lights up, but it seems relatively infrequent to be acceptable risk when you're planning on your turrets anyways.

My overall takeaway from this though is that trying to design a full standalone bunker in the field isn't the right approach, because even if you're designing under the assumption that raiders have to move past the bunker and the turrets on the back side can finally contribute, the breachers will instead opt to destroy the generator and then everything goes down. I think a standard conduit run to the forward turrets is overall preferable because of that, and have multiple lines of 4-6 turrets than a single bunker. None of this testing was done with an actual proper base for raiders to aim towards instead of just the lone bunker in the field though so grain of salt.

Interestingly, I found that the thump cannon on the Termites does not have the same massive damage on sandbags/barricades as it does walls, and seem to prioritize nearer sandbags over a wall a couple tiles away. Laying down sandbag lines in the field may be a reasonable countermeasure to take since that buys you a lot more time to snipe them with your marksmen before they start busting up your walls.

Coolguye posted:

the emphasized point is not correct. if that were true, you would be rolling with -15 hideous environment very often in the early game when you have dirt floors and lovely bedrooms because you're popping everything else up. dirt is -1 beauty, so nature by default is actually pretty ugly. instead of pissing pawns off, though, it just ends up being neutral after it's hit its equilibrium point.

my larger point is, if you are concerned about beauty, integrated security features are not going to be what gets you. what gets you is gonna be filth and dirt, all of which are a minimum of -15. if you're working in 11x11 setups, though, and are willing to sacrifice 2 of your 100 plots under a sunlamp, two excellent wooden or marble statues flanking the sunlamp will always be visible no matter where someone is in the field and will definitely give at least +5, even if three turrets from a pillbox are also visible. but i definitely think that definitely gets into the wealth problem you were talking about and you're definitely not getting +beauty moodlets outdoors without the statues.

Playing around with the beauty view, going below -2.5 beauty is enough to get to the -10 Ugly Environment moodlet, which was basically anywhere within two tiles of the turret pillbox I was testing with. I was overestimating the impact of individual ugly items so having sight on a couple turrets is not a huge hit at least, and looking at the Needs tab the ranges are non-linear so you shouldn't be losing more than 5 mood in one workday given how the system is weighted towards gains than losses.

Coolguye posted:

so i actually disagree on this point and i am glad you responded to it because i missed that post originally

i completely agree that for killboxes and such, you want stone barricades. if a pawn is going to be covering nearby, the last god drat thing they need is some dickhead throwing a molotov or a centipede firing an inferno cannon and setting their cover on fire. forget the loss of cover, the problem is the embers flicking out from that and threatening to set the pawn alight while they're trying to shoot. the trick is, for a pillbox, these tables are actually turned. miniturrets don't give a poo poo about fire or heat, and the sandbag being on fire actually makes it really hazardous to storm the turret because any melee pawn approaching it is likely to catch. if the area around the pillbox is too sensitive to risk a wildfire, no problem, just extend the rooftop out at least 3 tiles from the sandbags to act as a firebreak.

these pillboxes, again, are a distraction. ablative armor. it is understood that they are going to get hosed up, broken apart, and need repair because they are ablative armor. the entire deal is that we are buying pawn parts and lives with steel, components, stone, and cloth. this wasn't needed before because breaching raids were pretty easy to control, but that's changed. further, this is not a piece for your end game, defend the ship holdout. that's a completely different build with completely different values and goals. however, given that context, if someone wants to set the cover on fire and provide an easy way for storming pawns to pick up some extra burns and run around in a panic for a little while longer, more power to them. i'd set the sandbags on fire by flicking a switch inside the pillbox if i could.

Mini-turrets do care about fire: steel ones are 28% flammability, and I assume you don't want to be spending plasteel or uranium on ablative turrets for the 0% ones. You care enough to separate the turrets with walls to avoid chain reactions, so I'm assuming you don't want to have your entire pillbox go up from a fire chaining around all sides of the bunker either.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013



Legendary plasteel halberd is pretty good, honestly the production specialist is incredibly valuable because a flat +1 quality to anything produced makes you churn out masterworks on the reg and legendaries almost every time you hit an inspiration.

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG
Yeah Production Specialist is pretty easily the most valuable, especially since you can have as many as you like.
e: so, reaching the wealth victory condition was way easier than I thought it would be, I haven't even really made a lot of poo poo, everyone is naked and two people have any bionics at all. While it does let you reset your ideologion completely it doesn't reroll the world map. I had disabled most of the teched-up factions to have a chance at surviving but that leaves me with just tribals and bugs, probably time to let that group go into the mists of legend :sadwave:



e: I figured someone would do a mod to let you customize the Newgame+ mechanic and here it is
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2555218393&searchtext=archonexus

Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Aug 1, 2021

Danaru
Jun 5, 2012

何 ??
Found out you can dev in any specialist position to your ideology, so I get to have my Chief Surgeon anyway :toot:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE
I would say Shooting specialist edges out Production just a tiny bit because killing things more efficiently is a big deal and lots of shooters is more useful than lots of crafters, but the meme for Production doesn't make everyone dislike you so I guess that's a fair trade.

The obvious answer is to take both and then airdrop masterwork items as gifts until everyone allies you. :v:

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply