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CoolCab posted:honestly i think it's fine here, it's an APU as opposed to a GPU but i don't think anyone credibly is taking this as more than "a gaming PC in your I'm credibly - to me - taking it as a handheld console that will run Windows games in an ok fashion (30fps) on a very small screen, has PC hardware and is open to modding of software and to an unknown extent, simple hardware replacements. If it was a gaming PC I wouldn't have bought one, I have a good one already. It's a Switch with the games I want to play, but moddable - which is why I bought it. I'm never going to plug it into an external screen, I have a PC for that. The width of the Deck is about the same as my Switch with Binbok controller-like Joycons replacements. So that I'm not worried about. The weight remains to be seen, but the weight distribution of a Switch in handheld mode is very different from an iPad because the form matters in how stable it will feel - you won't be trying to stop it from tipping over because all the mass of between your hands for example. Don't think the Deck is going to change gaming, but for what it is and the price it is at, pretty happy to have a moddable, PC gaming handheld. Don't plan to plug it into a screen like ever, so it's not going to driving more than 720p - actually, whatever res looks ok on that Switch-like screen, who cares if it's actually 720p. Treating it as just another gaming PC is extremely reductionist even for these goony forums. shrike82 posted:Changing TDP through the bios - literally setting the max wattage. Yeah, that's useful experience. This is where Valve need to help, perhaps by defining apis to allow games to sense/tweak power/heat usage in some standard way. But whatever they do I'm reasonably confident they won't go the Nintendo approach of preventing heat and power to be issues by limiting GPU power in undocked, handheld mode - even if plugged into wall power. That last is so disappointing - let me decide what's too much, Nintendo.
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Aug 7, 2021 01:34
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uh, bud I was defending you it posting here, I have to say that response comes across as a little defensive. and politely, "a windows pc on which you play games" is a gaming pc. that feels like splitting hairs a lot.
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Aug 7, 2021 01:44
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Fwiw on AMD CPUs you can change the TDP on the fly with software which is one of the reasons them going with AMD is pretty awesome. It’s pretty easy to switch things with the CPU and GPU. I’ve read recently that there is software that will do it on intel but it’s not as comprehensive.
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Aug 7, 2021 01:52
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CoolCab posted:uh, bud I was defending you it posting here, I have to say that response comes across as a little defensive. and politely, "a windows pc on which you play games" is a gaming pc. that feels like splitting hairs a lot. It's that reduction to it runs games and is a PC, which though accurate loses key details like reductions tend to do, that I was referring to: that it's handheld is what makes it interesting to me and I presume others. There are folks in the Deck thread buying PC games on sale with no PC, just preparing for their Deck pre-order to come in. The handheld portion of the value is pretty big for the same reasons it is big for the Switch: standard specs, screen and input could lead to - and this is only a hope - devs tuning games for the discussion device, just like the Switch and other consoles.
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Aug 7, 2021 02:04
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MarcusSA posted:Fwiw on AMD CPUs you can change the TDP on the fly with software which is one of the reasons them going with AMD is pretty awesome. It’s pretty easy to switch things with the CPU and GPU. You can do this on Intel, and the gpd handhelds too, just using throttlestop or quick cpu or whatever. Iirc quick cpu even has profiles for different tdp ranges. It worked on the Win 2, and currently I've got my win max 1035g7 capped at 20w tdp, and freq locked to 2.8ghz max boost via throttles top. I can change tdp in ts on the fly, though ts doesn't yet support profiles for it which would be way more convenient than having to open up ts and manually type it in. Per game would be amazing.
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Aug 7, 2021 02:14
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would you say that the handheld appeal could be expressed in another way, like, say, “in a backpack”. it’s not reductionist bud it’s an observation. people are buying pc games because it is a gaming pc, which you can fit in your backpack. I understand the product and am not reducing it at all. I would politely point to the inverse of reductionist, holist, which can be used pejoratively as “implying something is more than the sum of its parts”.
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Aug 7, 2021 02:17
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:You can do this on Intel, and the gpd handhelds too, just using throttlestop or quick cpu or whatever. Iirc quick cpu even has profiles for different tdp ranges. It worked on the Win 2, and currently I've got my win max 1035g7 capped at 20w tdp, and freq locked to 2.8ghz max boost via throttles top. I can change tdp in ts on the fly, though ts doesn't yet support profiles for it which would be way more convenient than having to open up ts and manually type it in. Per game would be amazing. I’m gonna have to try this on my win max because drat the fans spin up like crazy. It’s insane how quiet the fans on the aya Neo are vs the win max. The Linus video goes into it a bit and both the deck and the Neo are pretty quiet devices.
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Aug 7, 2021 02:22
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MarcusSA posted:I’m gonna have to try this on my win max because drat the fans spin up like crazy. So in TS it's the turbo boost long power / short power max (pl1/2). Set them both to the same amount of whatever tdp you want in w (so I have mine both set to 20). That option is under the "TPL" tab. It's recommended on these handhelds to have short power limited to the same as long power, so that you can more properly gauge the heat / battery life tradeoffs. Sweet spot for perf vs battery life is 18w with cpu freq capped lower than default all-core turbo (to make sure igpu gets full power budget and not get sucked up by cpu boosting to 3.4 or whatever it is), but I like 20w because it gives me a bit more performance and takes battery life down to about 1.5hrs which is perfect for my commute. Also make sure to do an undervolt in ts, fwiw I have my win max when capped at 2.8 max boost with a -80mv uv, it definitely helps on the temps. Don't bother with cache / sa, the gains there are very negligible and the tradeoff is possible os corruption. I also have my igpu with a -65mv undervolt. These options in throttlestop are under the "FIVR" tab. Taking this back to the steam deck, if they expose this level of tdp control via their custom os, that'd be great. Being able to limit clock speed, do undervolts, and limit tdp in software would be huge. Per game would be amazing. Shrimp or Shrimps fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Aug 7, 2021 |
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Aug 7, 2021 02:30
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Shrimp or Shrimps posted:So in TS it's the turbo boost long power / short power max (pl1/2). Set them both to the same amount of whatever tdp you want in w (so I have mine both set to 20). That option is under the "TPL" tab. It's recommended on these handhelds to have short power limited to the same as long power, so that you can more properly gauge the heat / battery life tradeoffs. Thanks a bunch I’m gonna look into this! quote:
AFAIK that is one of their goals also there is some speculation that there will be community profiles that people can share on a per game basis.
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Aug 7, 2021 02:35
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https://twitter.com/rpcs3/status/1423657759292153858?s=20 it's arguable how useful FSR is actually but as usual, AMD's open approach tends to get people on board much quicker than Nvidia's proprietary BS
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Aug 7, 2021 04:47
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btw on the 3dfx thing, yeah, no. account deleted, lol tbh i do sorta wish Nvidia would bring the brand back. even after all those years, i still have no fuckin idea what or why a "geforce" is.
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Aug 7, 2021 05:05
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Cygni posted:btw on the 3dfx thing, yeah, no. account deleted, lol “GeForce,” originally meaning “Geometry Force,” was the winner of a 1999 contest Nvidia threw to come up with a new name after the TNT2 series. From the Wikipedia GeForce article: 
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Aug 7, 2021 05:47
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Cygni posted:btw on the 3dfx thing, yeah, no. account deleted, lol Big loving shocker. Tech blogs all over got loving duped by this obvious troll account, so at least something funny came out of it.
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Aug 7, 2021 10:56
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Cygni posted:I mean its gonna be a personal perference thing, but I used my Switch extensively while traveling for work (when that was a thing) and the weight was my biggest complaint about it. It would get fatiguing to use for long flights without propping it up, and worse when laying in hotel beds or whatever. The Deck is nearly twice as heavy. imo you get fatigued propping up your arms which are on an average human like 5kg. this is a problem with doing literally anything with a portable device you have to keep your hands up to use, using your super light phone for 2h will cause the same issue sauer kraut posted:I only half-read that Verge article, but managing to run The Witcher 3 at 720p medium settings just above the fps threshold where you'd wanna kill yourself is not really a gaming PC lmfao, oh no! a game notorious for running like poo poo runs like poo poo!
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Aug 7, 2021 11:23
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The Steam Deck controllers aren't detachable right? I'm very curious about how that is going to feel. I get pain in my wrist & thumb when I use the Switch in handheld mode after a modest amount of time. Maybe the Steam Deck is more ergonomically formed, but I'd still prefer if you could detach the controllers and use them like a gamepad.
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Aug 7, 2021 11:31
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I bought Godfall* on the Epic Games Sale and put in a couple of hours yesterday, and this being the first real game that I own that natively supports FSR, I gave it a shot. Even at Ultra Quality at 1080p, I could see some very obvious blurring of detail, so I ultimately turned it off, since I could still hit my monitor's max refresh even with ray-tracing turned on. I'm sure it has its uses on the very-low end, or if I was at 4k, but right now it just doesn't fit into my use-case. ___ * I know it didn't review all that well, but I was looking for something single-player and was kinda shallow and mindless to play.
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Aug 7, 2021 11:35
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Lord Stimperor posted:The Steam Deck controllers aren't detachable right? I'm very curious about how that is going to feel. I get pain in my wrist & thumb when I use the Switch in handheld mode after a modest amount of time. Maybe the Steam Deck is more ergonomically formed, but I'd still prefer if you could detach the controllers and use them like a gamepad. I would hope you can bind a controller to it. It doesn't have a kickstand though so you'd have to prop it up or use it in a dock.
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Aug 7, 2021 12:52
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Truga posted:
does it run better than the switch port?
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Aug 7, 2021 12:53
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Turmoil posted:I would hope you can bind a controller to it. You can. It's literally a PC you can do everything with it that you can a PC. Fuckin' dock it and display it on a monitor, install Windows, use it as a terrible workstation, whatever. It owns.
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Aug 7, 2021 12:56
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i doubt i'll own a steam thing, but i can tell you this: its performance in a game that looked boring and overrated is meaningless to me. especially since most games that they use for common benchmarks, by my admittedly unprofessional and anecdotal obvservations, tend to run like rear end. i think a more fair question is, how does it play things like fortnite or other popular games that are not run by blizzard. also it certainly runs my existing ~600 game steam library better than the switch does i assume?
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Aug 7, 2021 12:58
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I hope either Valve or a 3rd party figures out a docking solution that can overclock the hardware and broadcast the image at a higher resolution ala switch. I’m not keen on playing 720p games on a TV anymore, this isn’t 2006.
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Aug 7, 2021 13:04
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uh, i would expect it to have whatever resolution output you'd like? it takes usb-c monitors
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Aug 7, 2021 13:05
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CoolCab posted:does it run better than the switch port? the switch version runs at sub-minimum pc settings so yes, the deck running it at medium is a significant step up medium is roughly what the PS4 version uses I think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L2j_pFgEuk&t=68s repiv fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Aug 7, 2021 |
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Aug 7, 2021 13:08
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i dunno if you were being literal or just using it as a colloquialism but i don't think it is likely to have a lot of overclocking potential tbh. you need thermal and power overhead for that as i understand it and the handheld form factor ain't great at either. maybe i'm wrong?
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Aug 7, 2021 13:10
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Their stated goal is total compatibility with the entirety of Steam's library, including getting anti-cheat working (including EAC which Fortnite uses) once Deck launches. EGS already works through Wine/Lutris and since most of Valves contributions make it upstream compatibility is likely to at the very least improve there too. Seems pretty ambitious. If all that falls apart and nothing works acceptably well, at least there's the option to throw Windows on it, but at that point you regularly have to deal with "PC stuff" that SteamOS takes care of. Intrusive system updates and driver installs etc CoolCab posted:i dunno if you were being literal or just using it as a colloquialism but i don't think it is likely to have a lot of overclocking potential tbh. you need thermal and power overhead for that as i understand it and the handheld form factor ain't great at either. maybe i'm wrong? It may be possible to boost past 3.5ghz by adjusting the power profile to push more juice to the CPU and less to the CPU or the opposite if required. They've mentioned developer and user defined power profiles, but there doesn't seem to be an actual implementation yet. Best guess is that it'll work like Steam Input. SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Aug 7, 2021 |
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Aug 7, 2021 13:10
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SCheeseman posted:It may be possible to boost past 3.5ghz by adjusting the power profile to push more juice to the CPU and less to the CPU or the opposite if required. my assumption was the stated 2.4-3.5ghz range is already taking that into account, so you only get 3.5ghz if the GPU isn't doing much
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Aug 7, 2021 13:17
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3.5ghz is very low, even at a 15w TDP. The AYA Neo has a 6 core Zen 2 APU that can hit 4ghz+ at 15w even while it's Vega iGPU is getting hit fairly hard. I figure they chose 3.5 (all-core?) since that's roughly equivalent to what the consoles have, but with half the cores (and half the framerate) as graphics performance is ultimately priority.
SCheeseman fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Aug 7, 2021 |
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Aug 7, 2021 13:24
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must be hitting thermal limits rather than power ones, surely? what's the cooling solution like.
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Aug 7, 2021 13:26
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CoolCab posted:must be hitting thermal limits rather than power ones, surely? what's the cooling solution like. The AYA Neo can go higher than 30w total TDP and has a smaller form factor. Thermals aren't likely to be a problem.
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Aug 7, 2021 13:31
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Truga posted:imo you get fatigued propping up your arms which are on an average human like 5kg. this is a problem with doing literally anything with a portable device you have to keep your hands up to use, using your super light phone for 2h will cause the same issue that's a fairly odd argument -the heavier the portable is, the faster you're going to feel fatigue and you're typically not moving your fingers around on your phone the same way you're going to be with a gaming handheld
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Aug 7, 2021 13:40
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Odd Mutant posted:I hope either Valve or a 3rd party figures out a docking solution that can overclock the hardware and broadcast the image at a higher resolution ala switch. I’m not keen on playing 720p games on a TV anymore, this isn’t 2006. CoolCab posted:uh, i would expect it to have whatever resolution output you'd like? it takes usb-c monitors yeah the deck can certainly drive high resolution monitors, the tricky part will be replicating the switches ability to flip games between 720p and ~1080p on the fly when docking or undocking i don't think it's feasible to do that without cooperation from the game
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Aug 7, 2021 13:40
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I manually throttle my laptop CPU to below 3.5 and it plays call of duty just fine. 3.5 GHz is plenty for gaming and tbh most tasks 
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Aug 7, 2021 14:10
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repiv posted:yeah the deck can certainly drive high resolution monitors, the tricky part will be replicating the switches ability to flip games between 720p and ~1080p on the fly when docking or undocking oh not a chance, getting that to work took a ton of nintendo strongarming developers and it's still kind of buggy on third party titles. i can't imagine valve doing the same.
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Aug 7, 2021 14:13
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Statutory Ape posted:I manually throttle my laptop CPU to below 3.5 and it plays call of duty just fine. Gigahertz is a pretty useless metric to judge performance by, and it has been for at least 15 years now. Your experience on a desktop with certain processor frequencies is potentially very different from a 15W handheld working at the same frequency. edit: that said, this thing is definitely not going to be CPU bottlenecked if anyone's concerned about that. The Aya Neo has a way more powerful CPU than it needs because it was built using a chip designed for laptops and budget desktops. Valve worked with AMD for a semi-custom chip partially so they could get only as much CPU as they need and not a bit more (with the other part obviously being the more advanced iGPU) Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Aug 7, 2021 |
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Aug 7, 2021 14:49
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Truga posted:lmfao, oh no! a game notorious for running like poo poo runs like poo poo! Is this a common opinion? I feel like the game has always delivered good performance if you kept off superfluous stuff like HairWorks™
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Aug 7, 2021 14:58
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Icept posted:Is this a common opinion? I feel like the game has always delivered good performance if you kept off superfluous stuff like HairWorks™ No, I have no idea what that dude is on about. Witcher 3 always ran pretty great, I didn't exactly have a monster PC when it came out but I was able to play through at 60+ fps with high settings. Last time I played after getting my 3080, it ran at a locked 144 with everything ultra including hairworks.
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Aug 7, 2021 15:11
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Icept posted:Is this a common opinion? I feel like the game has always delivered good performance if you kept off superfluous stuff like HairWorks™ none of cd projekt red's games run "well". witcher 3 came out six years ago, my 3070 came out last year and even with hairworks off it hangs around 90 at 1440p. generally it's forgiven with the scale of the games, mind. e: Enos Cabell posted:No, I have no idea what that dude is on about. Witcher 3 always ran pretty great, I didn't exactly have a monster PC when it came out but I was able to play through at 60+ fps with high settings. Last time I played after getting my 3080, it ran at a locked 144 with everything ultra including hairworks. huh, really? that's more of a performance gain than i would have anticipated, maybe i'm CPU bound?
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Aug 7, 2021 15:15
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CoolCab posted:none of cd projekt red's games run "well". witcher 3 came out six years ago, my 3070 came out last year and even with hairworks off it hangs around 90 at 1440p. generally it's forgiven with the scale of the games, mind. Yeah, just fired it up again to double check. I've got a 9700k, 3080, 32gb ddr4 3600 @1440p. Double checked settings and every slider is maxed out. Monitor built in fps counter was pretty much locked at 144, dips to 142 every now and then. Nvidia fps overlay was hanging out around 190-220 range the whole time.
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Aug 7, 2021 16:20
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Enos Cabell posted:Yeah, just fired it up again to double check. I've got a 9700k, 3080, 32gb ddr4 3600 @1440p. Double checked settings and every slider is maxed out. Monitor built in fps counter was pretty much locked at 144, dips to 142 every now and then. Nvidia fps overlay was hanging out around 190-220 range the whole time. oh god yeah that's a hell of a lot more cpu than i'm rocking (3300X). hrm does it like the extra cores or the higher boost clock, i wonder? or is it more the 3070?
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Aug 7, 2021 16:31
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you can run Witcher 3 on an absolute bottom-of-the-barrel CPU if you really tried https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJyPAUQN6kw
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Aug 7, 2021 17:09
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